7 Jan
2001
7 Jan
'01
6:46 p.m.
Found an Amstrad PC1640HD20 but unfortunately no K-B.
This is like an IBM 2011/2021 with the PSU in the monitor case.
Luckily I did get the monitor and it does power up. I understand the
K-B is proprietory however.
Anyone with a spare or a work-around for this beast ?
Thanks larry
Reply to:
lgwalker(a)look.ca
8 Jan
8 Jan
7:46 a.m.
On Mon, 08 Jan 2001, you wrote:
Found an Amstrad PC1640HD20 but unfortunately no K-B.
This is like an IBM 2011/2021 with the PSU in the monitor case.
Luckily I did get the monitor and it does power up. I understand the
K-B is proprietory however.
Anyone with a spare or a work-around for this beast ?
I not sure how much help it is to you, but the situation here in the UK is that
there are quite a few base units, keyboards and mice (also proprietary) around
because the PSU fails first so working monitors are about as common as hen's
teeth.
--
Regards
Pete
8:58 a.m.
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12:40 p.m.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lawrence Walker" <lgwalker(a)look.ca>
To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Monday, January 08, 2001 12:46 AM
Subject: Amstrad PC1640HD20
Found an Amstrad PC1640HD20 but unfortunately no K-B.
This is like an IBM 2011/2021 with the PSU in the monitor
case.
Luckily I did get the monitor and it does power up. I
understand the
K-B is proprietory however.
Believe it or not I saw one the other day and was unable to
find the machine to go with it.
I think it was at Rebuilt Resources in North Bay, Ontario.
2:46 p.m.
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1206099322
Here is a 1640 kb on ebay.
Ernest
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org
[mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Lawrence Walker
Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2001 9:46 PM
To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org
Subject: Amstrad PC1640HD20
Found an Amstrad PC1640HD20 but unfortunately no K-B.
This is like an IBM 2011/2021 with the PSU in the monitor case.
Luckily I did get the monitor and it does power up. I understand the
K-B is proprietory however.
Anyone with a spare or a work-around for this beast ?
Thanks larry
Reply to:
lgwalker(a)look.ca
5:15 p.m.
Thanks. Got it covered.
larry
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1206099322
Here is a 1640 kb on ebay.
Ernest
Reply to:
lgwalker(a)look.ca
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org
[mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Lawrence Walker
Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2001 9:46 PM To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org
Subject: Amstrad PC1640HD20
Found an Amstrad PC1640HD20 but unfortunately no K-B.
This is like an IBM 2011/2021 with the PSU in the monitor case.
Luckily I did get the monitor and it does power up. I understand the
K-B is proprietory however. Anyone with a spare or a work-around for
this beast ?
Thanks larry
Reply to:
lgwalker(a)look.ca
9 Jan
9 Jan
2:17 a.m.
On Mon, 8 Jan 2001 00:46:17 -0500 Lawrence Walker
<lgwalker(a)look.ca> wrote:
Found an Amstrad PC1640HD20 but unfortunately no K-B.
This is like an IBM 2011/2021 with the PSU in the monitor case.
Luckily I did get the monitor and it does power up. I understand the
K-B is proprietory however.
I thought the keyboard was a standard IBM XT-compatible?
Note that the XT keyboard is not the same as the "modern"
AT keyboard. The XT had no caps-lock lights, for instance.
And the interface protocol was subtly different, even
though it used the same 5-pin DIN plug. You may be able to
find old PC keyboards with an AT/XT switch on the bottom.
If you can, select XT and try it!
--
John Honniball
Email: John.Honniball(a)uwe.ac.uk
University of the West of England
5:39 a.m.
On Mon, 8 Jan 2001 00:46:17 -0500 Lawrence Walker
<lgwalker(a)look.ca> wrote:
Nope. I have about a 1/2 dozen of the IBM PC/XT K-Bs. Those
hefty beasts are my favorite k-b. Also a couple of the XT/AT switch
type. This Amstrad does have a 5-pin DIN, but the pins are
arranged differently than on the PC.
ciao larry
Reply to:
lgwalker(a)look.ca
Found an Amstrad PC1640HD20 but unfortunately no
K-B.
This is like an IBM 2011/2021 with the PSU in the monitor case.
Luckily I did get the monitor and it does power up. I understand the
K-B is proprietory however.
I thought the keyboard was a standard IBM XT-compatible?
Note that the XT keyboard is not the same as the "modern"
AT keyboard. The XT had no caps-lock lights, for instance.
And the interface protocol was subtly different, even
though it used the same 5-pin DIN plug. You may be able to
find old PC keyboards with an AT/XT switch on the bottom.
If you can, select XT and try it!
--
John Honniball
Email: John.Honniball(a)uwe.ac.uk
University of the West of England
10 Jan
10 Jan
1:22 a.m.
On Tue, 9 Jan 2001 11:39:20 -0500 Lawrence Walker
<lgwalker(a)look.ca> wrote:
> I thought the keyboard was a standard IBM
XT-compatible?
Nope. I have about a 1/2 dozen of the IBM PC/XT K-Bs.
Those
hefty beasts are my favorite k-b. Also a couple of the XT/AT switch
type. This Amstrad does have a 5-pin DIN, but the pins are
arranged differently than on the PC.
Oh dear, how embarrassing, I was completely wrong. I had a
look at the plug on the PC1512 at home, and of course it's
a six-pin DIN plug. The outer pins in 270-degree layout
and an extra pin in the centre. I worked with one of those
machines in about 1986/7 but I'd assumed (wrongly) that the
DIN plugs were standard.
--
John Honniball
Email: John.Honniball(a)uwe.ac.uk
University of the West of England
7:44 a.m.
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10:09 a.m.
On Tue, 9 Jan 2001 11:39:20 -0500 Lawrence Walker
<lgwalker(a)look.ca> wrote:
That is, of course, a standard 6 pin DIN plug.
I know that Amstrad used that connector on the PC2086 (later XT clone
with VGA graphics on the motherboard) -- I have that machine and the
service manual. The 6 pins on the plug were the standard 4 lines of an
XT keyboard (+5V, ground, clock, data -- I have no idea if the data
protocol was the same as IBMs) and 2 pins that were for the mouse
buttons. The mouse plugged into the system unit, the button signals
(grounded by microswtiches in the mouse when the button was pressed)
were sent down the keyboard cable, detected by the microcontroller in
the keyboard and sent back to the system as key up/down messages.
> I thought the keyboard was a standard IBM
XT-compatible?
Nope. I have about a 1/2 dozen of the IBM PC/XT
K-Bs. Those
hefty beasts are my favorite k-b. Also a couple of the XT/AT
switch type. This Amstrad does have a 5-pin DIN, but the pins are
arranged differently than on the PC.
Oh dear, how embarrassing, I was completely wrong. I had a
look at the plug on the PC1512 at home, and of course it's
a six-pin DIN plug. The outer pins in 270-degree layout
and an extra pin in the centre. I worked with one of those My 2086 came without a mouse. I converted an clone
mouse for an Atari
ST (IIRC -- it was just a plain 2 button quadrature output mouse), and
thus got to find out what the signals were and where they went.
I have no idea if the PC1512 is like this, but it might be.
-tony
One of my ST mouses (mice ?) has a simple switch to change it
to an Amiga mouse. I also have a Kraft joystick with DE9 and
DB15 connectors and a switch to change between Apple IIe and
PC. There was a box from Practical Peripherals called Mouse-
Master to switch between STs and Amigas. Seems like it shouldn't
be too difficult to make an all-purpose connection box for different
platforms. I also have a 4+4-input 1+1 output ABCD box, to use a
single mouse and K-B with multiple systems, that are readily
available, which would simplify the project. Any "gotcha's" in this
scenario ?
ciao larry
Reply to:
lgwalker(a)look.ca
12:22 p.m.
On Wed, 10 Jan 2001, you wrote:
The connection on the side for the mouse is a DE-9.
Are you
saying it wouldn't function without a K-B. If so, is the mouse also
proprietary ? A 3 button mouse came with this 1640HD20 and I
just tossed it in my mouse box among the multitude of others
figuring it was standard. Was this likely not the original mouse ?
The Amstrad mouse was almost triangular in shape both in planform and side
view, and had 2 oblong grey buttons on it. I have one somewhere but I haven't
got most of my collection sorted out yet because we moved house 6 months ago.
I have only just got our new house networked, sorting out the 2 spare
bed^H^H^Hcomputer rooms comes next.
--
Regards
Pete
12:48 p.m.
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4:34 p.m.
The
connection on the side for the mouse is a DE-9. Are you
Same on the PC2086
saying it wouldn't function without a K-B. If
so, is the mouse also
The movement will work, the buttons won't. The quadrature signals from
the movement sensors go to one of the ASICs on the motherboard, the
button signals go to the keyboard.
proprietary ? A 3 button mouse came with this
1640HD20 and I
It's a quadrature output mouse, like an ST mouse, an Amiga mouse, PERQ
3a mouse, PC bus mouse, original (pre ADB) Mac mouse and so on. The
connector pinout is specific to the Amstrad.
Does that make it 'proprietry'? You can't plug in a normal PC serial
mouse (the mouse port is not a serial port, or a PS/2 mouse port). And
you'd have to rewire the connector [1] to use another quadrature mouse
on the Amstrad. But it is the standard TTL level quadrature signals as
used on many classic computers.
[1] This is something that never worries me....
just tossed it in my mouse box among the
multitude of others
figuring it was standard. Was this likely not the original mouse ?
If it's 3 button then it's not the original mouse. Does it have any
maker's name on it? Have you openned it up to see if it appears to be
quadrature output or if it has an internal microcontroller (and thus
is some kind of serial mouse). How many wires are used in the
interface cable?
AFAIK you can use a normal serial mouse with the
Amstrad (if you load
the right drivers) but you plug such a mouse into the serial port and
not into the mouse connector.
Perhaps that's how it was connected. But I see that the serial
socket is a male 25pin and generally when someone tosses these
they just leave the adapter on the puter or on the device. It could be
incidental that the mouse just happened to be tossed at the same
time.
My ST mouses
(mice ?) has a simple switch to change it
^^^^^^^
meeces ?
to an Amiga mouse. I also have a Kraft joystick
with DE9 and
Yes, the real difference between Atari ST and amiga mice is the wiring
of the connector. Rearranging the wires (which is what the switch
does) will let the same mouse work on both machines).
A few years ago, Maplin (a UK hobbyist electronic component shop) sold
replacement mice for the ST and Amiga. One was 2 button, the other was
3 button. I used them as replacement mice on all sorts of machines
(the Amstrad PC2086, the Mac+, Acorn Archimedes, etc) just by
replacing the connector (and wiring it appropriately). Alas you can no
longer get these very useful mice, just the much less useful PC serial
type, which work on almost no machines that I have.
One day I must program a microcontroller to talk to a
PC serial mouse
and give out quadrature signals on the other side so I can use a PC
serial mouse with many of my classic computers.
Ahh so that explain the desirability of the Co-Co joysticks which
otherwise are pretty flimsy and not especially well designed.
DB15 connectors and a switch to change between
Apple IIe and
PC. There was a box from Practical Peripherals called Mouse-
Actually, the PC joystick port and the Apple ][ (//e, etc) joystick
port are electrically very similar. Both are based on the 558 chip (==
quad 555, all 4 timers hardwired to monostable mode, approximately),
and thus both need variable resistors between the joystick inputs and
Vcc. So it's not suprising that the same joystick could work with
both.
Some other machines have true A-to-D converters for the joystick ports
and want to see a changing voltage, not a changing resistance, at the
joystick input. Of the top of my head, the Vectrex, Tandy CoCo (and Dragon), some models of Tandy 1000, Tatung Einstein,
BBC micro, etc
are like this. Converting a variable-resistor joystick (like a PC
joystick) to work with one of these machines is a little more 'fun',
especially if only 2 terminals of the variable resistor in the
joystick are available (so it can't be rewired as a potentiometer to
give a varying voltage). A few op-amps will solve the problem, though.
-tony
In looking at the rear of the Amstrad I also noticed it has a bank of
10 switches labelled "display selector". This is curious since the
display is integral to it. What would you "sellect" with this ?
ciao larry
Reply to:
lgwalker(a)look.ca
11:28 p.m.
hard to find beasts. I have an Atari with an RJ11
connector waiting
for whatever it originally came with ( a TTxx ?)
The keyboards with the RJ11 type connector work with both the
Mega-ST and Mega-STE series, though there may be others as well. The
STE series keyboard is generally considered to be a better keyboard.
Jeff
--
Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems:
Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File
http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757
11 Jan
11 Jan
7:58 a.m.
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12:49 p.m.
Tony Duell skrev:
> proprietary ? A 3 button mouse came with this
1640HD20 and I
It's a quadrature output mouse, like an ST mouse,
an Amiga mouse, PERQ 3a
mouse, PC bus mouse, original (pre ADB) Mac mouse and so on. The
connector pinout is specific to the Amstrad.
Pre ADB Mac... Does this mean that I could reqire this old Mac Plus mouse I've
got so that it will run with my STs and Amigas?
Does that make it 'proprietry'? You can't
plug in a normal PC serial
mouse (the mouse port is not a serial port, or a PS/2 mouse port). And
you'd have to rewire the connector [1] to use another quadrature mouse on
the Amstrad. But it is the standard TTL level quadrature signals as used
on many classic computers.
I've come to consider anything else than quadrature a kludge.
> One of my ST mouses (mice ?) has a simple switch
to change it
> to an Amiga mouse. I also have a Kraft joystick with DE9 and
Yes, the real difference between Atari ST and amiga
mice is the wiring of
the connector. Rearranging the wires (which is what the switch does) will
let the same mouse work on both machines).
A few years ago, Maplin (a UK hobbyist electronic
component shop) sold
replacement mice for the ST and Amiga. One was 2 button, the other was 3
button. I used them as replacement mice on all sorts of machines (the
Amstrad PC2086, the Mac+, Acorn Archimedes, etc) just by replacing the
connector (and wiring it appropriately). Alas you can no longer get these
very useful mice, just the much less useful PC serial type, which work on
almost no machines that I have.
Can't one just rip out the serial chip, then?
One day I must program a microcontroller to talk to a
PC serial mouse and
give out quadrature signals on the other side so I can use a PC serial
mouse with many of my classic computers.
There are a lot of solutions for this on the market. The most luxurous models,
such as the Punchinello or Mroochek, even support mouse wheels.
Speaking of mouse protocols, on what principle do DECstation/VAXstation mice
work? I look forward to going graphic with my 3MAX sometime in the future, but
the UFO/puck mouse doesn't seem all that attractive, especially not at the
usual DEC prices.
--
En ligne avec Thor 2.6.
A Spanish MSX Group "Matra" visited to this Fair. I lent Spanish stand to
them. They showed and did Promotion play of SEX BOMB BUNNY. And this Game has
tema song of Majingar-Z! Why they know Japanese TV animation?
K. Ikeda, MSX-Print
12 Jan
12 Jan
7:55 a.m.
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8574
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17 comments
8 participants
participants (8)
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ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
ernestls＠home.com -
jhellige＠earthlink.net -
John.Honniball＠uwe.ac.uk -
KenzieM＠sympatico.ca -
lgwalker＠look.ca -
optimus＠canit.se -
peter＠joules.org