5 Dec
2005
5 Dec
'05
10:40 p.m.
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 18:19:05 -0500
From: Scott Stevens <chenmel at earthlink.net>
On Tue, 29 Nov 2005 23:59:42 -0500
"James Fogg" <James at jdfogg.com> wrote:
Actually it isn't the last of the Classic Macs in a certain sense. Apple
produced several other inferior compact Mac machines that aren't nearly
as expandable as the SE/30. The Macintosh Classic is an example of this, if
I'm not mistaken. The Classic can't sport anywhere near as much RAM as
the SE/30.
The SE/30 is essentially the IIcx with the NuBus slots sawn off and a
little (very little) video RAM and video circuitry added.
It was a nice machine. 16 MHz 68030 with fully 32 bit wide data and
address paths. Maximum RAM is 128 MB with eight 16MB 30 pin SIMMs.
Color capability is in the ROM, but requires one of the somewhat rare
video cards (SE/30 PDS slot) and goes to an external monitor.
The follow up models which had similar form factors were far
inferior. The Mac Classic really ought to be compared to the Mac
Plus or Mac SE (somewhat superior to the former and inferior to the
latter). The only thing the Classic had going for it is that Mac OS
6.03 is in the ROM, so you can boot with no available disk. It
*should* have had the Mac Portable memory map, so that it could
address 8 MB of RAM instead of only 4MB (24 bit address space) and a
speed bump from 8 to 16 MHz, but Apple didn't do that.
The Classic II was meant to be a follow up to the SE/30 but while it
has a 16MHz 68030 its maximum RAM is 10 MB and its data path is only
16 bits wide. Bleah. The Color Classic has the same problem, though
it does have a color screen.
The Color Classic II was better with 33MHz 68030 and 32 bit data
path. The Max RAM was still limited to only 36MB. However, that's a
72 pin SIMM socket with 4MB on the motherboard and Apple never
acknowledged that any of their 72 pin RAM machines would address
better than 32 MB per slot. Nevertheless many of their machines will
work with 64MB or even 128 MB 72 pin SIMMs, so the CCII may have a
much higher max RAM than reported by Apple.
If that's the case, then the CCII was a worthy successor to the SE/30.
Jeff Walther
James
Fogg wrote:
OK, neither do I (it's too late to argue). It is the last of the classic
Macs and has the greatest number of features and capabilities.
My interests stop at the "classic"
Macs, of which the SE30 is the
height of engineering achievement (in my opinion).
Why? I know a bit of the classic Mac engineering history
thanks to Andy's retro website/book, but I know nothing of the SE30. 
8 Dec
8 Dec
6:08 p.m.
On Tue, 6 Dec 2005 00:40:44 -0600
Jeff Walther <trag at io.com> wrote:
In it's day I can see the reason to expand an SE/30 with a video
card. But mine are well equipped with ethernet cards in the PDS
slot. If you want 'fancy video' and that sort of thing, shouldn't
you be using a NuBus box anyway?
I do have a bunch of SCSI-to-ethernet pods that would work on an
SE/30 with video in the PDS slot, but I'm not sure about the
performance of ethernet-through SCSI' adaptors. I use one
occasionally with my Powerbook 165c where there's no alternative.
Date: Wed, 30
Nov 2005 18:19:05 -0500
From: Scott Stevens <chenmel at earthlink.net>
On Tue, 29 Nov 2005 23:59:42 -0500
"James Fogg" <James at jdfogg.com> wrote:
The SE/30 is essentially the IIcx with the NuBus slots sawn off
and a little (very little) video RAM and video circuitry added.
It was a nice machine. 16 MHz 68030 with fully 32 bit wide data
and address paths. Maximum RAM is 128 MB with eight 16MB 30
pin SIMMs. Color capability is in the ROM, but requires one of
the somewhat rare video cards (SE/30 PDS slot) and goes to an
external monitor.
> James Fogg wrote:
> > My interests stop at the "classic" Macs, of which the
SE30 is
the > > > height of engineering achievement (in my
opinion). > >
> Why? I know a bit of the classic Mac
engineering history
> thanks to Andy's retro website/book, but I know nothing of
the SE30.
>
OK, neither do I (it's too late to argue).
It is the last of
the classic > Macs and has the greatest number of features
and
capabilities. >
Actually it isn't the last of the Classic Macs in a certain
sense. Apple
produced several other inferior compact Mac machines that
aren't nearly as expandable as the SE/30. The Macintosh
Classic is an example of this, if I'm not mistaken. The
Classic can't sport anywhere near as much RAM as the SE/30. The follow up models which had similar form factors
were far
inferior. The Mac Classic really ought to be compared to the
Mac Plus or Mac SE (somewhat superior to the former and
inferior to the latter). The only thing the Classic had going
for it is that Mac OS 6.03 is in the ROM, so you can boot with
no available disk. It *should* have had the Mac Portable
memory map, so that it could address 8 MB of RAM instead of
only 4MB (24 bit address space) and a speed bump from 8 to 16
MHz, but Apple didn't do that.
None of Apple's compact Mac products after the SE/30 shine like it
does. One might say it was a 'sign of the times' at Apple. The
SE/30 is one of the 'peaks' of the company in some regards.
The Classic II was meant to be a follow up to the SE/30 but
while it has a 16MHz 68030 its maximum RAM is 10 MB and its
data path is only 16 bits wide. Bleah. The Color Classic has
the same problem, though it does have a color screen.
The Color Classic II was better with 33MHz 68030 and 32 bit data
path. The Max RAM was still limited to only 36MB. However,
that's a 72 pin SIMM socket with 4MB on the motherboard and
Apple never acknowledged that any of their 72 pin RAM machines
would address better than 32 MB per slot. Nevertheless many of
their machines will work with 64MB or even 128 MB 72 pin SIMMs,
so the CCII may have a much higher max RAM than reported by
Apple.
If that's the case, then the CCII was a worthy successor to the
SE/30.
Jeff Walther
6:19 p.m.
I do have a bunch of SCSI-to-ethernet pods that would
work on an
SE/30 with video in the PDS slot, but I'm not sure about the
performance of ethernet-through SCSI' adaptors. I use one
occasionally with my Powerbook 165c where there's no alternative.
I'm sure it varies from model to model, but the Asante SCSI Ethernet boxes
I have are reportedly around 5MB/sec max throughput. Not speedy, but better
than nothing. I use one with a IIsi (the IIsi has a NuBus video accelerator
which makes it tremendously more useable, but thus no room for a NIC).
--
--------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ ---
Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser at floodgap.com
-- In memory of Greg Morris ---------------------------------------------------
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