I've been surprised at the number of "collectors" who don't care a bit about whether an otherwise pristine piece of hardware is working or not. All they seem to care about is how "cool" it looks. Frankly, to me, a computer that doesn't compute is just a bunch of parts taking up more space than they should. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Duell" <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2001 12:17 PM Subject: Re: Ebay madness they

Well I have been staying away from this discussion....but here are my 2 cents: 1- I dont mind defective machines because I fix them. Complete and unmodified defective is better than : scratches, dents, cracks and hacks and burnt crt's for me... 2-Ebay is crap for a buyer. The concept of the "auction" is something that advantages the seller...period I actually posted my first object on ebay (YES ME!) recently and I was ashamed a service manual for a Heathkit signal generator (1962) sold for $17.50US. When the winning bidder emailed, I told him I had 3 more Heathkit manuals that I offered to him for whatever he would give me...This is too much of a hassle for the few $ this brings in. Of course I let him have the manuals for whatever he offered...I dont know if Ill post other items, this is quite time consuming for the $s. My work brings in my money. My hobby is computer collecting (I have others...) and I dont let "money issues and dealings" get mixed into hobbies or they dont "feel like hobbies" anymore....no? But then again, thats just me... Claude http://computer_collector.tripod.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Allain" <allain(a)panix.com> To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2001 7:38 PM Subject: Re: Ebay madness

I have to agree that there's advantage to the seller, but there's advantage to the buyer as well. First of all, how else can you find what you want with a simple search? Secondly, how else could you find the stuff sorted by the criteria that you demand? Thirdly, I've never seen stuff I needed for my system that I use every day in the flea markets, yet I've been able to snag a couple of GB of SDRAM in 128MB and 256MB chunks, for somewhere on the order of half what I'd have had to pay locally. I guarantee that the flea market won't contain stuff like that. Ebay seems to facilitate distress merchandise liquidation. When I bought those 256M SDRAMs, the same things were priced at $60+ at Costco and $49 at MEI, with a rebate that one might or might not get, but 7.8% sales tax besides, which offsets shipping for sure. I just passed up a 9.1 GB HDD in the original packing and sealed bag that was at $12 or so today. Now, I don't know what the HDD will sell for, ultimately, but I have yet to pay >$5, shipped, for the 1GB types I use in trays instead of JAZ media. I bought a PII heatsink with two fans for $7.95 shipped, with two fans suitable for two socket-7 heatsinks that had flakey fans, and all from my chair, with nary a phone call or automobile ride. That may not be everyone's luck, but I've been smiled upon, I guess. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ade Vickers" <avickers(a)solutionengineers.com> To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2001 7:51 PM Subject: Re: Ebay madness

Actually I've done pretty good lately at finding some bargains, it partially depends on what you're looking for. Also, out of the last several auctions I've participated in, I've actually used "Buy it now" in most of them. One item, a copy of VAX/VMS V5.2 Internals and Data Structures, was about $10 cheaper than I've ever seen it! It's not just East London. Unless you're in the NE USA (and I really doubt even then) where else are you going to find any amount of DEC documenation, or many of the other items that you find on eBay? I've a HUGE library of DEC documenation, and a fair amount of it came off of eBay (usually in big chunks, the biggest being my OpenVMS V6.1 Full Doc set which I got for a song, but shipping was murder). Same with all my OpenVMS ConDist's. In fact I've hardly purchased any hardware on eBay, other than a couple of DEC PCI SCSI controllers that will work with OpenVMS. Although I am starting to buy Arcade and Video Game stuff on eBay, again I'm getting it cheaper than I could otherwise, assuming I could even find it. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh(a)aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ |

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I believe I see where you're coming from, Tony, but I don't see things that way myself. I like to drive a nicely functional, well appointed and comfortable car. I HATE working on the things, though I hate even more trusting the meathead at the service station/garage to do it. As for me, I actually dislike repairing other people's designs, and, in fact, my own as well, but I put up with that. I've had very little of my own hardware break down, yet, whenever I get into someone else's it amazes me that it worked at all. Moreover, I seldom fail to find things that should have been omitted, often among the stuff that's not working right. I don't collect computers, I don't seek out "old" hardware, in general, except perhaps to prove a point, though I've got a lot of it, but only because I got it when it was new. When I appear to be seeking out "old" hardware, I'm looking for parts. To me, a computer that's not computing, even if only for a moment, is rubbish, or maybe a spare parts supply, and little else. If it can't easily be made to compute, and can't be used to make something else compute, then I don't want it. Now, I know that's not your viewpoint, but I'll bet I'm not the only one around who doesn't see repairing badly-designed, or even well-designed but broken hardware as "fun," though I do enjoy getting something that I'd otherwise have to scrap or cannibalize to work. If it doesn't do something I want done, however, out it goes, albeit not always quickly. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Duell" <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2001 11:53 AM Subject: Re: Ebay madness

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Minus the Hayes 300 that's still in storage, here's a complete Hayes Stack. http://deltasoft.fife.wa.us/stack.jpg A friend of mine found the Optima 9600 for me today at a local thrift shop. Unless there is another device that Hayes made in this same aluminum extrusion, this IS the whole set. Now all I need is a DC Hayes 300 S100 modem. :) Thanks to Jeff & Don for helping complete the collection. g. -- http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.

--- Gene Buckle <geneb(a)deltasoft.com> wrote: What are the words/symbols above the seconds places on the Chronograph? They appear to be related to the alarm, but I can't quite read them. I'm designing an emulator for the Chronograph for an LCD/VFD, but I don't know what those are. The first cut I'm planning will be on a modern computer (Linux or similar) with two serial ports - one to talk to the "host", one to talk to a Matrix Orbital VFD I have. Depending on how successful the emulation is, I might or might not try to make a second pass at it with something that fits in a Chronograph-sized box. I was thinking about either a PIC (but need two serial ports), an 8051 or I have a defunct 68008 design from my former employer that was to be an RS-232 protocol converter to compete with the Cleo "Cable" that was semi-popular for EDI transmisson over 3780 before EDI-over-IP took over. So anyhow... I'd love to see a close-up of just the face of the Chronograph. Thanks, -ethan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/

Claude, Claude.W wrote: How can this be so? Your description below sounds to me, like the buyer got a preety good deal! It can work both ways. Chad Fernandez Michigan, USA

You pay your final value fee based on the closing auction amount, not on what you discount it for. Granted the FVF system has a credit system but you have to know it's there and go thru the motions with it. If they put a crazy amount up in proxy then they should be prepared to pay anything between the bottom and top of that. If you want a cap on price you can also post it as a buy-it-now (same as beginning bid) and that way you tell them from the beginning that you just want that amount, not anymore than that. -> -----Original Message----- -> From: owner-classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org -> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Mike Ford -> Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2001 1:41 AM -> To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org -> Subject: Re: Ebay madness -> -> -> >I actually posted my first object on ebay (YES ME!) recently and I was -> >ashamed a service manual for a Heathkit signal generator (1962) sold for -> >$17.50US. -> -> The important point is that you didn't want the manuals, and someone who -> did now has them PLUS you get some compesation for the time and -> expense of -> shipping. You don't have to charge the person the full winning -> bid amount, -> several times I have informed winning bidders that the bid was -> too high and -> offered a lower price. -> -> If you want a simpler transaction just box up like items and sell them a -> box at a time. -> -> ->

I know that and I've had one dumb-butt see a $6.99 starting bid and a $6.99 buy-it-now and STILL put a $6.99 bid on the regular way (duh). The only thing I can think of that they would do this (other than stupidity) is to delay the end of the auction so they have the money when the auction ends later. Of course I closed the auction early as I wanted to move the particular item(s) and wasn't concerned with further bids. I found that this particular bidder was a deadbeat anyway as they had a rather high neg factor (4 negs out of a feedback of 60) and 2 of those were within that same month, so I was able to post non-paying-bidder early, then relist and get a real bidder and the unti was closed, paid for, and shipped before the first posting's regular auction date came up. It has it's advantages, for both the buyer and seller, unless the seller is looking for a nut that wants something so bad that an inflated buy-it-now will get them to bid & close. That's when most buy-it-now auctions usually get deleted from a regular bid being posted. Of course if there is a reserve and it isn't met, there could be 1000 bids and the buy-it-now will still be open. -> -----Original Message----- -> From: owner-classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org -> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Richard Erlacher -> Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2001 11:16 AM -> To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org -> Subject: Re: Ebay madness -> -> -> That "buy-it-now" mechanism doesn't really serve as a price cap. -> I wish it -> would, but ... -> -> What happens is the "buy-it-now" option goes away once a bid, no -> matter how low -> or high, has been placed, and I've seen numerous things auction -> off at prices -> well above the "buy-it-now" price. Perhaps that would work -> better if folks had -> the option available until there was a bid above the -> "buy-it-now" level, but -> that's not the way it works. -> -> Dick -> -> ----- Original Message ----- -> From: "Russ Blakeman" <rhblake(a)bigfoot.com> -> To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org> -> Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2001 8:51 AM -> Subject: RE: Ebay madness -> -> -> > You pay your final value fee based on the closing auction -> amount, not on -> > what you discount it for. Granted the FVF system has a credit -> system but you -> > have to know it's there and go thru the motions with it. If -> they put a crazy -> > amount up in proxy then they should be prepared to pay -> anything between the -> > bottom and top of that. If you want a cap on price you can -> also post it as a -> > buy-it-now (same as beginning bid) and that way you tell them from the -> > beginning that you just want that amount, not anymore than that. -> > -> > -> -----Original Message----- -> > -> From: owner-classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org -> > -> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Mike Ford -> > -> Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2001 1:41 AM -> > -> To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org -> > -> Subject: Re: Ebay madness -> > -> -> > -> -> > -> >I actually posted my first object on ebay (YES ME!) -> recently and I was -> > -> >ashamed a service manual for a Heathkit signal generator -> (1962) sold for -> > -> >$17.50US. -> > -> -> > -> The important point is that you didn't want the manuals, -> and someone who -> > -> did now has them PLUS you get some compesation for the time and -> > -> expense of -> > -> shipping. You don't have to charge the person the full winning -> > -> bid amount, -> > -> several times I have informed winning bidders that the bid was -> > -> too high and -> > -> offered a lower price. -> > -> -> > -> If you want a simpler transaction just box up like items -> and sell them a -> > -> box at a time. -> > -> -> > -> -> > -> -> > -> > -> ->

Richard Erlacher skrev: As for me, I'm very interested in the aesthetic part of computing. I love my Goldstar HC-200 MSX, even though it's been absolutely smashed internally. After all, it's got such a colourful keyboard and a light pen holder. If it worked, it would be even more fun, but even as it is, I sometimes take it out and just admire it. I'm an accumulator in the sense that I take just about every computer I come across. OTOH, it's not a matter of keeping my old computer (though I still own each and every one I've bought), instead I keep lookout in Usenet, on the web, talk to people or go to the junkyard in order to make my collection grow. But the state of a system is secondary to the system itself. If it works and is cosmetically perfect, it's great, but even if not, who knows, one day I might run across a complementary system so that I might restore it. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. It's amazing how many useful pieces of equipment are disguised as domestic appliances: the machine for cleaning keyboard keycaps and shell cases does an excellent job of washing clothes, while the tumbling machine for drying them off also works for socks and shirts. The device in the kitchen for baking small spray-painted articles can be used for pizza and muffins. And so on... Pete Turnbull

I have a few machines that I'll occasionally just sit and admire, mainly the NeXT and the SOL-20 but on an asthetic level I tend to find specific boards just as pleasing to look at as various machines. There's just something about a well planned, well layed out design, such as the mainboard of the Apple II or II+ or the minimalist approach taken by the ZX-81. Amiga Zorro II/III boards tend to be well layed out as well due to thier size. Asthetic's plays a large role in most collector hobbies so I am not suprised that it's becoming a factor in this one as well. Jeff -- Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.cchaven.com http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757

Richard Erlacher skrev: Well, yoiu can't really say that my Goldstar isn't a computer. It's just a smashed computer. And the computing aspect is important. After all, the entire design of the Goldstar is based on the fact that it's a computer. Otherwise, I might just as well be collecting those plastic mock-up computers they sometimes use in office displays at IKEA or even old vacuum cleaners. It's a bit of a cross between an interest in computers and an interest in industrial design. Had there not been a Z80 in the HC-200, it would just have been another pretty plastic box. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. A Spanish MSX Group "Matra" visited to this Fair. I lent Spanish stand to them. They showed and did Promotion play of SEX BOMB BUNNY. And this Game has tema song of Majingar-Z! Why they know Japanese TV animation? K. Ikeda, MSX-Print