15 Sep
2015
15 Sep
'15
12:47 a.m.
I've been searching for introduction dates of early microcomputer
operating systems, by which I mean only operating systems that run on
computers using single-chip microprocessors such as 8008, 8080, and
6800, but not the LSI-11, IMP-16, HP 9830, etc.
Intel's ISIS operating system for their MDS was first released in
1975, but I haven't been able to pin down a month. I'm looking for a
more specific date for that, and for the releases of any prior
microcomputer operating system.
On Twitter, @hotelzululima suggested Motorola MIKBUG, introduced in
1974, but IMO it's a monitor, not an operating system. Hzl also
suggested Forth, which I also don't really consider to be an operating
system in the traditional sense, but if there's evidence of Forth or a
Forth-like language available for a microcomputer prior to 1976, that
would be interesting as well.
15 Sep
15 Sep
1:01 a.m.
On Tue, Sep 15, 2015 at 5:47 PM, Eric Smith <spacewar at gmail.com> wrote:
I've been searching for introduction dates of
early microcomputer
operating systems
Are you including or excluding systems like the APL-based Intel 8008 MCM/70?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MCM/70
circa 1974 - I guess Zbigniew's book might provide a precise introductory date.
1:31 a.m.
On Tue, Sep 15, 2015 at 5:47 PM, Eric Smith <spacewar at gmail.com> wrote:
On Twitter, @hotelzululima suggested Motorola MIKBUG,
introduced in
1974, but IMO it's a monitor, not an operating system.
Given the constraints of the systems of that time (speed, memory size,
peripheral support) the line between monitor and "operating system"
might be tricky to specify.
Here's another interesting marginal candidate:
DEC MPS
A three board Omnibus set that contained an Intel 8008, memory and IO
- it had a resident monitor on the KC341 control panel.
1:34 a.m.
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Eric Smith
Sent: Tuesday, 15 September, 2015 8:48 AM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Subject: release dates of early microcomputer operating systems, incl. Intel
ISIS
I've been searching for introduction dates of early microcomputer operating
systems, by which I mean only operating systems that run on computers
using single-chip microprocessors such as 8008, 8080, and 6800, but not the
LSI-11, IMP-16, HP 9830, etc.
But would you rule out the IM6100. Rather than being a PDP-8 on a chip, it was really more
a chip that stole the PDP-8 OS....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersil_6100
Intel's ISIS operating system for their MDS was
first released in 1975, but I
haven't been able to pin down a month. I'm looking for a more specific date
for that, and for the releases of any prior microcomputer operating system.
On Twitter, @hotelzululima suggested Motorola MIKBUG, introduced in
1974, but IMO it's a monitor, not an operating system.
Define an "operating system". If you have no disks what could have gone into
MikBug that wasn't there?
... but perhaps you meant DISK Operating System..
Actually to answer my own question the address of the character i/o routines
"INCH" and "OUCH" are not designed for portability and
later Monitors such as SWTBUG had to jump through (small) hoops to retain
compatibility...
http://www.swtpc.com/mholley/swtbug/SWTBUG_Users_Guide.pdf
Hzl also suggested
Forth, which I also don't really consider to be an operating system in the
traditional sense, but if there's evidence of Forth or a Forth-like language
available for a microcomputer prior to 1976, that would be interesting as well.
Looks like FLEX for the 6809 was also 1976...
http://www.flexusergroup.com/flexusergroup/fug3.htm
BUT I don't believe ISIS became an operating system until 1976 when ISIS II added
support for disks....
http://www.retrotechnology.com/dri/isis.html#DDJ
and the ISIS II manual has 1976 on Bitsavers has 1976 as the first Copyright.....
Dave
P.S. Often the search for "First" is fruitless, and folks will twist the
arguments to suit their needs. So the Manchester SSEM and ENIAC argue constantly argue
about the first program.
So although ENIAC first ran a program it was stored as acoustic waves, and the Manchester
folks argue this was not an "electronic program".
Moving on is "Core" electronic storage? So did we have a long wait between the
IBM 701 and the first machine with semi-conductor store when we had no computers using
electronic storage...
2:03 a.m.
On Tue, Sep 15, 2015 at 2:34 AM, Dave G4UGM <dave.g4ugm at gmail.com> wrote:
Looks like FLEX for the 6809 was also 1976...
A neat trick since the 6809 wasn't introduced until 1978. I assume
what is really meant is FLEX for the 6800.
BUT I don't believe ISIS became an operating
system until 1976 when ISIS II added support for disks....
Are you sure ISIS (one) didn't have disk support? I thought that was
shipped with the first Intel MDS-DOS floppy systems for use on the
MDS-800 in 1975. A 1975 edition of the MDS-DOS Operator's Manual is
listed among other Intel manuals at:
http://www.intel-vintage.info/aboutme.htm
and the ISIS II manual has 1976 on Bitsavers has 1976
as the first Copyright.....
Which doesn't tell us anything about ISIS (one).
P.S. Often the search for "First" is
fruitless,
Definitely. I'm not necessarily looking for first, just early.
I found evidence of two operating systems for use on Intel's
development systems, sold by third parties along with their own floppy
disk systems, probably prior to Intel's MDS-DOS introduction. MDOS by
Millenium Information Systems Inc. is mentioned in the April 1975
Microcomputer Digest, and DOS-80 by Applied Data Communications in the
May 1975 issue. My vague recollection was that MDS-DOS was introduced
fairly late in 1975, but I don't have any definitive reference.
17 Sep
17 Sep
4:17 p.m.
From: Eric Smith
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2015 12:48 AM
On Twitter, @hotelzululima suggested Motorola MIKBUG,
introduced in
1974, but IMO it's a monitor, not an operating system.
So the PDP-6 monitor, which booted from DECtape but had no other dependency
on that medium, was not an operating system? It provided multiple timeshared
jobs, so was not a single-program system.
TOS/360 was not an operating system?
Do only disk-oriented operating systems deserve that sobriquet?
Rich
Rich Alderson
Vintage Computing Sr. Systems Engineer
Living Computer Museum
2245 1st Avenue S
Seattle, WA 98134
mailto:RichA at LivingComputerMuseum.org
http://www.LivingComputerMuseum.org/
6:06 p.m.
On Sep 17, 2015, at 7:17 PM, Rich Alderson <RichA
at LivingComputerMuseum.org> wrote:
From: Eric Smith
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2015 12:48 AM
Clearly that would be silly. Not to mention the RT-11 operating system, which could boot
and run with just DECtape. Or the famous THE operating system, which boots from paper
tape (though it pages to drum at runtime).
paul
On Twitter, @hotelzululima suggested Motorola
MIKBUG, introduced in
1974, but IMO it's a monitor, not an operating system.
So the PDP-6 monitor, which booted from DECtape but had no other dependency
on that medium, was not an operating system? It provided multiple timeshared
jobs, so was not a single-program system.
TOS/360 was not an operating system?
Do only disk-oriented operating systems deserve that sobriquet? 
6:42 p.m.
On 9/17/2015 7:06 PM, Paul Koning wrote:
Clearly that would be silly. Not to mention the RT-11
operating
system, which could boot and run with just DECtape. Or the famous
THE operating system, which boots from paper tape (though it pages to
drum at runtime).
With paper tape, would it not PASTE to the drum...
...Runs and hides.
paul
10:03 p.m.
I wrote:
On Twitter, @hotelzululima suggested Motorola MIKBUG,
introduced in
1974, but IMO it's a monitor, not an operating system.
On Thu, Sep 17, 2015 at 5:17 PM, Rich Alderson
<RichA at livingcomputermuseum.org> wrote:
So the PDP-6 monitor, which booted from DECtape but
had no other dependency
on that medium, was not an operating system? It provided multiple timeshared
jobs, so was not a single-program system.
I never said such a thing. MIKBUG is only a monitor in the sense that
all it provides it the ability to examine and deposit memory, load and
dump memory in an object format (S-records), and character I/O only to
a console device. It doesn't even have any program debugging features
to speak of. It doesn't have any form of job control. It doesn't have
any device abstraction or framework for device-independent I/O. If
that's an operating system, it's one of the crudest ones ever, being
less functional even than IBSYS/IBJOB. However, it was a perfectly
fine monitor.
Despite the PDP-6 Monitor being called "Monitor", it was obviously a
complete, full-featured operating system.
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8 comments
6 participants
participants (6)
-
bfranchuk＠jetnet.ab.ca -
dave.g4ugm＠gmail.com -
nw＠retrocomputingtasmania.com -
paulkoning＠comcast.net -
RichA＠LivingComputerMuseum.org -
spacewar＠gmail.com