22 Nov
2016
22 Nov
'16
5:27 p.m.
From: Josh Dersch derschjo at gmail.com
see if the same is true for other bus grants -- I can
run the system
with no grant continuity card at all in slot 9 and everything works.
Well, the BG4-BG7 grants definitely _are_ run through the SPC slot 9 (see
below) - at least, on a stock system. It's _possible_ that the software
you're loading doesn't use interrupts. (I have this vague memory that, unlike
the -11/34, the /40 doesn't complain if there's a non-continuous grant line.)
Or perhaps someone wired them across on that slot, to avoid knuckle-mashing
trying to put a G727 down there.
Anyway, the wire list in the drawings show all four lines (although they are
listed in two places, under "BGx" and "BUS BGx"). E.g. BG4 is shown on
pg. 79
as going from D07E2 (Source - K4-6, pg. 63, top right) to D09S2 (which is the
correct BG4 'in' pin for SPC), and as BUS BG4 on pg. 84 as going from D09T2
(SPC BG4 'out' pin) to B09E2 (correct BG4 UNIBUS 'out' pin).
I now have the system booting XXDP
Yahh!!
I did find out why there was that wire missing on the
backplane; the
KW11-L requires a wire (carrying one of the bus grant signals) be
removed from slot 3.
Right, BG6 is wired through that KW11-L slot because the clock needs
interrupts - the wire list shows that on pg. 79, where the BG6 entry is longer
than the other BGn entries, because of that. If I'm reading the notations
correctly, it shows the jumper installed by default - I guess it was removed
by hand on systems sold with a KW11-L?
There must also be some way to indicate that the jumper should be wired on
top at both ends (so the F03V2 to D09M2 wire wouldn't have to be removed to
pull the F03R2 to F03V2 jumper) - although maybe they just did _all_
multi-pin runs as alternating low on both ends, high on both ends, repeat to
make removal/replacement easier.
Speaking of notation, dunno if you knew this (I didn't), but the wire list
for the 11/40 includes etch also; you can tell etch entries from an 'H' in
the "Q" column and 'P' in the "Remark" column. Don't
confuse them with the
'H' in the "A/P" column, which also also has some 'L' entries;
not sure what
that is about, unless it tells whether the signal is asserted high or low.
Noel
23 Nov
23 Nov
midnight
On 11/22/16 9:27 AM, Noel Chiappa wrote:
Yes, I'd expect them to be run through the
slot (though I expected the
NPG, too :)). And there does seem to be continuity between the BG pins
on the CPU backplane and those on the DD11.
If I remove the grant continuity card from slot 9, I can still boot
XXDP. If I remove a grant continuity card from the DD11 (with NPG still
intact), I can't -- it hangs as I'd expect with a hole in the grant chain.
No one's done anything cute like hard-wiring the grants in and there's
no evidence of any modifications. All expected voltages are present on
the backplane pins in the right places. I put a little contact cleaner
in the slot too, just in case. I still can't get an SLU to function in
that slot, though the CSR addresses seem to respond and the
console/diagnostic PROM chugs along happily when I power the machine up
(though nothing appears on the serial line).
Tonight I may try running the SLU on an extender board and verifying
that all the proper voltages are actually making it to the board. The
fact that the board appears to be responding but I'm getting nothing
over the serial line makes me think that maybe the -15V isn't present
for some reason...
From: Josh
Dersch derschjo at gmail.com
see if the same is true for other bus grants -- I
can run the system
with no grant continuity card at all in slot 9 and everything works.
Well, the BG4-BG7 grants definitely _are_ run through the SPC slot 9 (see
below) - at least, on a stock system. It's _possible_ that the software
you're loading doesn't use interrupts. (I have this vague memory that, unlike
the -11/34, the /40 doesn't complain if there's a non-continuous grant line.)
Or perhaps someone wired them across on that slot, to avoid knuckle-mashing
trying to put a G727 down there.
Anyway, the wire list in the drawings show all four lines (although they are
listed in two places, under "BGx" and "BUS BGx"). E.g. BG4 is shown
on pg. 79
as going from D07E2 (Source - K4-6, pg. 63, top right) to D09S2 (which is the
correct BG4 'in' pin for SPC), and as BUS BG4 on pg. 84 as going from D09T2
(SPC BG4 'out' pin) to B09E2 (correct BG4 UNIBUS 'out' pin).
The KW11-L manual suggests that this is the
case, the installation
instructions specifically call out removing that wire. Apparently my
40's backplane had been reconfigured in such a manner at some point.
I now have the system booting XXDP
Yahh!!
I did find out why there was that wire missing on
the backplane; the
KW11-L requires a wire (carrying one of the bus grant signals) be
removed from slot 3.
Right, BG6 is wired through that KW11-L slot because the clock needs
interrupts - the wire list shows that on pg. 79, where the BG6 entry is longer
than the other BGn entries, because of that. If I'm reading the notations
correctly, it shows the jumper installed by default - I guess it was removed
by hand on systems sold with a KW11-L?
There must also be some way to indicate that the jumper should be wired on
top at both ends (so the F03V2 to D09M2 wire wouldn't have to be removed to
pull the F03R2 to F03V2 jumper) - although maybe they just did _all_
multi-pin runs as alternating low on both ends, high on both ends, repeat to
make removal/replacement easier.
Speaking of notation, dunno if you knew this (I didn't), but the wire list
for the 11/40 includes etch also; you can tell etch entries from an 'H' in
the "Q" column and 'P' in the "Remark" column. Don't
confuse them with the
'H' in the "A/P" column, which also also has some 'L' entries;
not sure what
that is about, unless it tells whether the signal is asserted high or low.
That's useful information to have, thanks!
- Josh
Noel
12:40 a.m.
On 11/22/16 4:00 PM, Josh Dersch wrote:
On 11/22/16 9:27 AM, Noel Chiappa wrote:
Yes, I'd expect them to be run through the
slot (though I expected the
NPG, too :)). And there does seem to be continuity between the BG
pins on the CPU backplane and those on the DD11.
If I remove the grant continuity card from slot 9, I can still boot
XXDP. If I remove a grant continuity card from the DD11 (with NPG
still intact), I can't -- it hangs as I'd expect with a hole in the
grant chain.
No one's done anything cute like hard-wiring the grants in and there's
no evidence of any modifications. All expected voltages are present
on the backplane pins in the right places. I put a little contact
cleaner in the slot too, just in case. I still can't get an SLU to
function in that slot, though the CSR addresses seem to respond and
the console/diagnostic PROM chugs along happily when I power the
machine up (though nothing appears on the serial line).
Tonight I may try running the SLU on an extender board and verifying
that all the proper voltages are actually making it to the board. The
fact that the board appears to be responding but I'm getting nothing
over the serial line makes me think that maybe the -15V isn't present
for some reason...
Annnnd: mystery solved (?). I had borrowed the SLU I was using in the
11/40 from my 11/34. This was an M7856 (DL11-W). Thought I'd grab
another SLU from my UNIBUS drawer and configure it up so I could put the
7856 back in the 11/34, but all I had left were the older, more annoying
to configure M7800s (DL11-D). So I jumpered it up (max of 2400 baud
with the crystal that's currently installed, blah) and installed it.
Works fine in the DD11 backplane.
Moved it to slot 9 of the CPU backplane. Still works.
So... maybe I just completely missed the memo on this, and maybe there's
still something wrong with my backplane... is it possible that slot 9 of
the 11/40's CPU backplane is wired *specifically* for an M7800? I guess
I need to spend some time tonight seeing what the differences are... but
now I need to go attend to a cranky 2yo who just woke up from a nap...
- Josh
From:
Josh Dersch derschjo at gmail.com
see if the same is true for other bus grants -- I
can run the
system
with no grant continuity card at all in slot 9
and everything
works.
Well, the BG4-BG7 grants definitely _are_ run through the SPC slot 9
(see
below) - at least, on a stock system. It's _possible_ that the software
you're loading doesn't use interrupts. (I have this vague memory
that, unlike
the -11/34, the /40 doesn't complain if there's a non-continuous
grant line.)
Or perhaps someone wired them across on that slot, to avoid
knuckle-mashing
trying to put a G727 down there. 
1:13 a.m.
On Nov 22, 2016, at 4:40 PM, Josh Dersch <derschjo
at gmail.com> wrote:
So... maybe I just completely missed the memo on this, and maybe there's still
something wrong with my backplane... is it possible that slot 9 of the 11/40's CPU
backplane is wired *specifically* for an M7800? I guess I need to spend some time tonight
seeing what the differences are... but now I need to go attend to a cranky 2yo who just
woke up from a nap?
I seem to recall something similar with one of the 11/40?s I was working on. I believe
that because the 11/40 CPU backplane is wired for an M787 that things don?t work quite
right if you try and install an M7856 into the SPC slot in the backplane and try and use
it and not the M787. There is a way to jumper the CPU backplane so you can use na M7856
and not the M787. I haven?t really investigated it in detail (and it?s been a long time
since I messed around with the 11/40 at that level).
TTFN - Guy
1:43 a.m.
On Tue, Nov 22, 2016 at 8:13 PM, Guy Sotomayor Jr <ggs at shiresoft.com> wrote:
I seem to recall something similar with one of the 11/40?s I was working
on. I believe that because the 11/40 CPU backplane is wired for an M787
that things don?t work quite right if you try and install an M7856 into the
SPC slot in the backplane and try and use it and not the M787. There is a
way to jumper the CPU backplane so you can use na M7856 and not the M787.
I haven?t really investigated it in detail (and it?s been a long time since
I messed around with the 11/40 at that level).
TTFN - Guy
I have my 11/40 fired up right now too. I can load BASIC and I have a
M9312 with a M7800 that returns serial signals/monitor running. I have the
CPU backplane, two core planes (empty), a DD11B and an DD11C. I can
operate without a grant card in slot, but I can't boot up using RL02 either
way, still trying to track down if I have a UNIBUS issue.
If there is something I can measure for you, for comparison purposes, let
me know. I will be around tomorrow too during the day. I live near Phila,
it's 845PM Tuesday at the moment here.
BIll
On Nov 22, 2016, at 4:40 PM, Josh Dersch
<derschjo at gmail.com> wrote:
So... maybe I just completely missed the memo on this, and maybe there's
still
something wrong with my backplane... is it possible that slot 9 of
the 11/40's CPU backplane is wired *specifically* for an M7800? I guess I
need to spend some time tonight seeing what the differences are... but now
I need to go attend to a cranky 2yo who just woke up from a nap?
1:45 a.m.
I have my 11/40 fired up right now too. I can load BASIC and I have a
M9312 with a M7800 that returns serial signals/monitor running. I have the
CPU backplane, two core planes (empty), a DD11B and an DD11C. I can
operate without a grant card in slot, but I can't boot up using RL02 either
way, still trying to track down if I have a UNIBUS issue.
If there is something I can measure for you, for comparison purposes, let
me know. I will be around tomorrow too during the day. I live near Phila,
it's 845PM Tuesday at the moment here.
BIll
...slot 9 that is, system does not seem to notice. I have only a M737, no
M787 installed but my CPU is not expecting a M787
3:41 a.m.
On Nov 22, 2016, at 5:43 PM, william degnan
<billdegnan at gmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, Nov 22, 2016 at 8:13 PM, Guy Sotomayor Jr <ggs at shiresoft.com> wrote:
I seem to recall something similar with one of the 11/40?s I was working
on. I believe that because the 11/40 CPU backplane is wired for an M787
that things don?t work quite right if you try and install an M7856 into the
SPC slot in the backplane and try and use it and not the M787. There is a
way to jumper the CPU backplane so you can use na M7856 and not the M787.
I haven?t really investigated it in detail (and it?s been a long time since
I messed around with the 11/40 at that level).
TTFN - Guy
I have my 11/40 fired up right now too. I can load BASIC and I have a
M9312 with a M7800 that returns serial signals/monitor running. I have the
CPU backplane, two core planes (empty), a DD11B and an DD11C. I can
operate without a grant card in slot, but I can't boot up using RL02 either
way, still trying to track down if I have a UNIBUS issue.
If there is something I can measure for you, for comparison purposes, let
me know. I will be around tomorrow too during the day. I live near Phila,
it's 845PM Tuesday at the moment here.
Hmm. I just realized that folks are having trouble booting an 11/40 from an
RL02. My 11/40 (which is a *big* configuration) has an RL11 in addition to
the RK11D and in the past I?ve booted it from an RL02 with no problems. So
I suspect it?s some sort of Unibus configuration issue. I haven?t fired up
the system since I moved it a few years ago so it would likely take a bit to
check things out.
TTFN - Guy
On Nov 22, 2016, at 4:40 PM, Josh Dersch
<derschjo at gmail.com> wrote:
So... maybe I just completely missed the memo on this, and maybe there's
still
something wrong with my backplane... is it possible that slot 9 of
the 11/40's CPU backplane is wired *specifically* for an M7800? I guess I
need to spend some time tonight seeing what the differences are... but now
I need to go attend to a cranky 2yo who just woke up from a nap?
7:49 a.m.
On 11/22/16 5:13 PM, Guy Sotomayor Jr wrote:
Interesting. I suppose the LTC on the M7856 could also be disabled...
I'll have to try that and see if it works. The DL11-W manual doesn't
seem to cover any special installation procedures for the 11/40, and the
11/40 System Manual describes Slot 9 as a "SMALL PERIPHERAL CONTROLLER
(USUALLY DL11)" slot without mentioning the lack of NPG and the LTC
oddity. Weird.
I now have the CPU passing diagnostics with flying colors (there was a
problem with the IR Decode logic causing incorrect reserved instruction
traps), and I can boot RT-11 from the SCSI controller, yay. Now to
track down the EIS and Stack Limit options...
- Josh
On Nov 22,
2016, at 4:40 PM, Josh Dersch <derschjo at gmail.com> wrote:
So... maybe I just completely missed the memo on this, and maybe there's still
something wrong with my backplane... is it possible that slot 9 of the 11/40's CPU
backplane is wired *specifically* for an M7800? I guess I need to spend some time tonight
seeing what the differences are... but now I need to go attend to a cranky 2yo who just
woke up from a nap?
I seem to recall something similar with one of the 11/40?s I was working on. I
believe that because the 11/40 CPU backplane is wired for an M787 that things don?t work
quite right if you try and install an M7856 into the SPC slot in the backplane and try and
use it and not the M787. There is a way to jumper the CPU backplane so you can use na
M7856 and not the M787. I haven?t really investigated it in detail (and it?s been a long
time since I messed around with the 11/40 at that level).
TTFN - Guy
3:11 p.m.
Interesting. I suppose the LTC on the M7856
could also be disabled...
I'll have to try that and see if it works. The
DL11-W manual doesn't seem
to cover any special installation procedures for the 11/40, and the 11/40
System Manual describes Slot 9 as a "SMALL PERIPHERAL CONTROLLER (USUALLY
DL11)" slot without mentioning the lack of NPG and the LTC oddity. Weird.
I now have the CPU passing diagnostics with flying colors (there was a
problem with the IR Decode logic causing incorrect reserved instruction
traps), and I can boot RT-11 from the SCSI controller, yay. Now to track
down the EIS and Stack Limit options...
- Josh
2957
days inactive
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days old
9 comments
4 participants
participants (4)
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billdegnan＠gmail.com -
derschjo＠gmail.com -
ggs＠shiresoft.com -
jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu