5 Feb
2012
5 Feb
'12
5:12 p.m.
Hi all,
Does anyone have a spare Acorn mouse, either RISC PC/A5000 (rounded
profile) or Archimedes (angular brick) style?
I can live with broken switches (got a bag of those!) and "it needs a
good clean", but the motion sensors need to work, and it must have a
mouse ball and the cover for the "ball pit".
For anyone who doesn't know what these look like -- they're usually
branded either Logitech or CPC, and have a nine-pin Mini-DIN plug on the
end of the wire. Colour is almost always cream (or murky yellow if
they've been in the sun) or white for the CPC ones.
Basically I need one for my A3000... the blasted PS2Mouse adapter
doesn't fit!
Alternatively if anyone has a chassis-mount 9-pin mini-DIN socket in
their spares box, that'll do just as well (the A3000 has pads on the
motherboard for an 'alternate' mouse port.. I just need the connector)
Thanks,
--
Phil.
classiccmp at philpem.me.uk
http://www.philpem.me.uk/
6 Feb
6 Feb
11:25 a.m.
For anyone who doesn't know what these look like
-- they're usually
branded either Logitech or CPC, and have a nine-pin Mini-DIN plug on the
Quadrature-output mice are getting hard to find now, and many of my
machiens depend on them, so I am keeping all I have ;-(.
end of the wire. Colour is almost always cream (or
murky yellow if
they've been in the sun) or white for the CPC ones.
Basically I need one for my A3000... the blasted PS2Mouse adapter
doesn't fit!
Alternatively if anyone has a chassis-mount 9-pin mini-DIN socket in
their spares box, that'll do just as well (the A3000 has pads on the
motherboard for an 'alternate' mouse port.. I just need the connector)
Could you change both parts of the connector (on the machine and the
mouse/adapter) and use, say, a DE9?
-tony
2:56 p.m.
On 06/02/12 19:25, Tony Duell wrote:
Quadrature-output mice are getting hard to find now,
and many of my
machiens depend on them, so I am keeping all I have ;-(.
So I've noticed.
And nobody seems to sell 3-button ball mice any more (well, not now
optical mice are down to the ?5ea price band), so you can't exactly buy
one of those, remove the PS/2 controller and add a 74LS14 to make a
quadrature mouse.
Could you change both parts of the connector (on the
machine and the
mouse/adapter) and use, say, a DE9?
The PS2MouseMini is basically a PS/2 socket, a bit of cable and a 9-pin
mini-DIN plug, with a microcontroller hidden in the plug. There's
nothing you can really do with it...
I'd need an in-line 9W mini-DIN socket to make an adapter cable, or a
chassis-mount socket to mod the A3000 to have a second mouse socket on
one side.
--
Phil.
classiccmp at philpem.me.uk
http://www.philpem.me.uk/
7 Feb
7 Feb
1:55 p.m.
And nobody seems to sell 3-button ball mice any more
(well, not now
I suspect I bought one of the last ball-type mice on the high street when
I needed a quick source of a double phototranssitor to fix a aparkjet
printer. I still have the remains of that mouse (I never throw anything
away...)
optical mice are down to the =A35ea price band), so
you can't exactly buy
one of those, remove the PS/2 controller and add a 74LS14 to make a
quadrature mouse.
Alas not... There have been quadrature-output optical mice, but those are
very rare.
And a lot of modern mice have Useless Serial Botch interfaces which are
much harder to make interface converters for than PS/2 mise. Oh well...
Could you change both parts of the connector (on
the machine and the=20
mouse/adapter) and use, say, a DE9?
The PS2MouseMini is basically a PS/2 socket, a bit of cable and a 9-pin
mini-DIN plug, with a microcontroller hidden in the plug. There's
nothing you can really do with it...
I'd need an in-line 9W mini-DIN socket to make an adapter cable, or a
chassis-mount socket to mod the A3000 to have a second mouse socket on
one side.
Hunting around, it appears that 9 pin Mini-DINs are not impossible to find.
Farnewll seem to list the cable-mounting plug (bulky, probably not a lot
of use to you) and the PCB socket (could you make a PCB to take it?)
Digikey _also)_ sell a chassis mount socket, a cable with a moulded plug
on oen end and bare wirwes the other [1] and a similar cable with a
socket to bare wires. Of ocurse the problem with Digikey for you and I is
the shipping nad import cheages but the parts do seem to be available.
[1] A friend of mine calls those 'universal connectors'....
-tony
2:44 p.m.
Philip Pemberton wrote:
On 06/02/12 19:25, Tony Duell wrote:
>Quadrature-output mice are getting hard to find now,
...
And nobody seems to sell 3-button ball mice any more
(well, not now
optical mice are down to the ?5ea price band), so you can't exactly buy
one of those, remove the PS/2 controller and add a 74LS14 to make a
quadrature mouse.
I found a data sheet for one of the early HP mouse chips that
said you can! The optical mouse sensor chip had quadtrature
outputs in addition to (I think) a PS/2 interface. I may have
been old enough that it required an additional chip to add
sipport for a scroll wheel. Anyway, I have a couple of mice
with that chip in, and one day I'll get around to making
a quadrature "tail" to connect to (say) the Atari ST.
--
John Honniball
coredump at gifford.co.uk
4:06 p.m.
On Tue, Feb 7, 2012 at 2:44 PM, John Honniball <coredump at gifford.co.uk> wrote:
Philip Pemberton wrote:
Looking at some of the data sheets for current Avago Technologies
LED/Laser optical sensors it looks like the sensor output is serial
(SCLK/SDIO or SCLK/MISO/MOSI) and then there would be microcontroller
to connect that to PS/2 or USB or whatever.
http://www.avagotech.com/pages/en/navigation_interface_devices/avago_mouse_…
So with optical mice based on those sensors you would have to replace
the microcontroller with your own microcontroller to turn the serial
data from the sensor into quadrature output.
And nobody seems to sell 3-button ball mice any more (well, not now
optical mice are down to the ?5ea price band), so you can't exactly buy
one of those, remove the PS/2 controller and add a 74LS14 to make a
quadrature mouse.
I found a data sheet for one of the early HP mouse chips that
said you can! ?The optical mouse sensor chip had quadtrature
outputs in addition to (I think) a PS/2 interface. I may have
been old enough that it required an additional chip to add
sipport for a scroll wheel. Anyway, I have a couple of mice
with that chip in, and one day I'll get around to making
a quadrature "tail" to connect to (say) the Atari ST.
8 Feb
8 Feb
12:13 p.m.
I found a data sheet for one of the early HP mouse
chips that
said you can! The optical mouse sensor chip had quadtrature
outputs in addition to (I think) a PS/2 interface. I may have
been old enough that it required an additional chip to add
sipport for a scroll wheel. Anyway, I have a couple of mice
with that chip in, and one day I'll get around to making
a quadrature "tail" to connect to (say) the Atari ST.
Obviously you can make an optical mouse with quadrature outputs, and it
doesn't suprise me at all that some of the sensor/controller ICs have
such outputs avaialbe (as well as PS/2 or whatever).
I suspect the problem is knowing which mice have them. It;s hardly going
to be mentioned on the box or in the adverts. For some odd reason
computer shops dislike you dismantling hardware before buying it :-). And
a lot of commodity products exist in several versions, made in dfifernt
factories, having the same appearance and funcitonality to the
average user , but none-the-less totally different inisde. SO even saying
that 'The 10 quid opticla mouse from PC World has a sensor chip with
quadrature outptus' is not enough. Some might, others may use a totally
different IC.
On another point, mouse 'tail' cable is thin anf flexible, and I've not
foudn a source of 8 or 9 wire cable that's as flexible (Yes, the cables
on the old quadrature mice were, but I've not seen a company that sells
it by the metre). So making a new cable is not as easy as it sounds.
-tony
1:32 p.m.
Tony Duell wrote:
On another point, mouse 'tail' cable is thin
anf flexible, and I've not
foudn a source of 8 or 9 wire cable that's as flexible (Yes, the cables
on the old quadrature mice were, but I've not seen a company that sells
it by the metre). So making a new cable is not as easy as it sounds.
Yes, you're absolutely right! This is actually another reason
that I've not made up the Atari ST mouse. I've seen some
very flexible CAT-5 cable that is, of course, 8-core and
might be good enough.
--
John Honniball
coredump at gifford.co.uk
7 Feb
7 Feb
5:03 a.m.
On Mon, 6 Feb 2012, Tony Duell wrote:
I _think_ the older Microsoft "Bus Mouse" was a quadrature device. I was
able to convert one for use with my NextStation.
--
For anyone who
doesn't know what these look like -- they're usually
branded either Logitech or CPC, and have a nine-pin Mini-DIN plug on the
Quadrature-output mice are getting hard to find now, and many of my
machiens depend on them, so I am keeping all I have ;-(.
2:13 p.m.
On Mon, 6 Feb 2012, Tony Duell wrote:
I _think_ the older Microsoft "Bus Mouse" was a quadrature device. I was
able to convert one for use with my NextStation.
Yes it was. As were the ST and Amiga mice [1], the Apple Mac mouse used
on machiens before ADB, the PERQ 3A mouse [2],the Depraz 83/P mouse (used
on the Qhitechapel MG1) and many, many, others.
The are probably planty of them around out there if you know where to
look, but getting _new_ ones is probably impssible now.
[1] About 15 years ago or more, Maplin (a major hobbyist component
supplier over here, at least back then) sold clone mice for the ST and
Amiga. One had 2 buttons, the other had 3, and they ahd differnet wiring
to the DE9 conenctor. I converted several of them to use with other
machines by cutting off the moulded connector and soldering the wires to
whatever conenctor I needed for the machine I was working on. No, Maplin
do not still sell those.
[2] But anyone who raids a PERQ 3A (==AGW3300) for parts is goign to be
LARTed. That said, I did once find a brnad-new-in-box PERQ 3A keyboard at
a radio rally...
-tony
For
anyone who doesn't know what these look like -- they're usually
branded either Logitech or CPC, and have a nine-pin Mini-DIN plug on the
Quadrature-output mice are getting hard to find now, and many of my
machiens depend on them, so I am keeping all I have ;-(. 
2:45 p.m.
On Tue, Feb 7, 2012 at 8:03 AM, Steven Hirsch <snhirsch at gmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, 6 Feb 2012, Tony Duell wrote:
I _think_ the older Microsoft "Bus Mouse" was a quadrature device. ?I was
able to convert one for use with my NextStation.
Yes it is, but it has a bizarro round connector with an orientation
bar across the bottom. One could steal the mating connector from a
Bus Mouse ISA card, or replace the cable. Inside, though, it's like
all of its other quadrature-emitting kin.
-ethan
3:42 p.m.
> I _think_ the older Microsoft "Bus
Mouse" was a quadrature device. ?I was
> able to convert one for use with my NextStation.
On Tue, 7 Feb 2012, Ethan Dicks wrote:
Yes it is, but it has a bizarro round connector with
an orientation
bar across the bottom. One could steal the mating connector from a
Bus Mouse ISA card, or replace the cable. Inside, though, it's like
all of its other quadrature-emitting kin.
The OLDER Microsoft Bus Mouse used a DE9.
The NEWER Microsoft Bus Mouse went to a silly connector.
The change was to get people to stop plugging them into video boards, and
plugging monitors into the bus mouse board. It happened. A lot.
Sometimes carelessness, sometimes the same people who wanted gender
changers to interchange serial and parallel ports.
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin at xenosoft.com
6:20 p.m.
On Tue, 7 Feb 2012, Ethan Dicks wrote:
On Tue, Feb 7, 2012 at 8:03 AM, Steven Hirsch
<snhirsch at gmail.com> wrote:
I took the easy way out and grafted another cable into it. The mouse was
designed to plug into an inline converter or some sort originally.
--
On Mon, 6 Feb 2012, Tony Duell wrote:
I _think_ the older Microsoft "Bus Mouse" was a quadrature device. ?I was
able to convert one for use with my NextStation.
Yes it is, but it has a bizarro round connector with an orientation
bar across the bottom. One could steal the mating connector from a
Bus Mouse ISA card, or replace the cable. Inside, though, it's like
all of its other quadrature-emitting kin.
8 Feb
8 Feb
12:15 p.m.
Yes it is, but it has a bizarro round connector with an orientation
bar across the bottom. One could steal the mating connector from a
Bus Mouse ISA card, or replace the cable. Inside, though, it's like
Unless Microsoft have used armoured cable or something for this mouse,
can't you just apply wirecutters to remove the original connecotr and
then solder on whateer connector you like?
all of its other quadrature-emitting kin.
At least one Microsoft mouse I was inside had _horrible_ encoders
consisting of a disk with contact pads on it and springy brush contacts.
I think I prefere opto-electronic enocders...
-tony
1 p.m.
At least one Microsoft mouse I was inside had
_horrible_ encoders
consisting of a disk with contact pads on it and springy brush contacts.
I think I prefere opto-electronic enocders...
http://tabalabs.com.br/pc/mouse_tpx_pc
"Made in Brazil" :o)
2:56 p.m.
On 8 Feb 2012 at 19:00, Alexandre Souza - Listas wrote:
More inexpensive RS232C mice for the PC were also made this way. I
still have a bunch of the 3-button variety that use that type of
encoder.
--Chuck
At least one
Microsoft mouse I was inside had _horrible_ encoders
consisting of a disk with contact pads on it and springy brush
contacts. I think I prefere opto-electronic enocders...
http://tabalabs.com.br/pc/mouse_tpx_pc 
7 Feb
7 Feb
4:28 p.m.
On 6 February 2012 01:12, Philip Pemberton <classiccmp at philpem.me.uk> wrote:
Hi all,
Does anyone have a spare Acorn mouse, either RISC PC/A5000 (rounded
profile) or Archimedes (angular brick) style?
I can live with broken switches (got a bag of those!) and "it needs a
good clean", but the motion sensors need to work, and it must have a
mouse ball and the cover for the "ball pit".
For anyone who doesn't know what these look like -- they're usually
branded either Logitech or CPC, and have a nine-pin Mini-DIN plug on the
end of the wire. Colour is almost always cream (or murky yellow if
they've been in the sun) or white for the CPC ones.
Basically I need one for my A3000... the blasted PS2Mouse adapter
doesn't fit!
Alternatively if anyone has a chassis-mount 9-pin mini-DIN socket in
their spares box, that'll do just as well (the A3000 has pads on the
motherboard for an 'alternate' mouse port.. I just need the connector)
Reading the thread, clearly this is quite hard work to do and new old
Acorn mice are expensive.
Have you thought of asking in any of the online Acorn communities?
Some are still quite lively. There's the Icon Bar, ROOL, and of course
the news:comp.sys.acorn hierarchy...
--
Liam Proven ? Profile: http://lproven.livejournal.com/profile
Email: lproven at cix.co.uk ? GMail/G+/Twitter/Flickr/Facebook: lproven
MSN: lproven at hotmail.com ? Skype/AIM/Yahoo/LinkedIn: liamproven
Tel: +44 20-8685-0498 ? Cell: +44 7939-087884
5:20 p.m.
On 08/02/12 00:28, Liam Proven wrote:
Reading the thread, clearly this is quite hard work to
do and new old
Acorn mice are expensive.
The big problem with the A3000 is the under-keyboard mouse socket. You
need a mouse with a thin cable and a small connector, otherwise you're
stuffed.
As I recall, the A3010 and A3020 either had a larger mouse socket "tray"
to accommodate larger connectors, or had the connector on the panel. I'm
leaning towards the latter, but can't check because the A3010 is in the
garage feeling sorry for itself (only 1MB RAM, the A3000 has 2MB, the
RISC PC has 30-something though I could swear it had 64).
Have you thought of asking in any of the online Acorn
communities?
Some are still quite lively. There's the Icon Bar, ROOL, and of course
the news:comp.sys.acorn hierarchy...
Huh, I thought Iconbar had closed down. ROOL I knew about (I've been
playing with RO6 on a Beagleboard-XM but paying muchos cashola for the C
compiler seems like folly), and I thought the CSA tree had died a death
now most ISPs have canned their Usenet offerings.
Thanks,
--
Phil.
classiccmp at philpem.me.uk
http://www.philpem.me.uk/
5:42 p.m.
On 8 February 2012 01:20, Philip Pemberton <classiccmp at philpem.me.uk> wrote:
On 08/02/12 00:28, Liam Proven wrote:
Ahh, right. Nothing else uses the same pinouts so that an extension
lead would work - as an SVideo one works for ADB?
Reading the thread, clearly this is quite hard
work to do and new old
Acorn mice are expensive.
The big problem with the A3000 is the under-keyboard mouse socket. You
need a mouse with a thin cable and a small connector, otherwise you're
stuffed. As I recall, the A3010 and A3020 either had a larger
mouse socket "tray"
to accommodate larger connectors, or had the connector on the panel. I'm
leaning towards the latter, but can't check because the A3010 is in the
garage feeling sorry for itself (only 1MB RAM, the A3000 has 2MB, the
RISC PC has 30-something though I could swear it had 64).
Nope. Not very active, mind, but still trickling along. Drobe closed
down & editor Chris Williams is now at the Reg.
Have you thought of asking in any of the online
Acorn communities?
Some are still quite lively. There's the Icon Bar, ROOL, and of course
the news:comp.sys.acorn hierarchy...
Huh, I thought Iconbar had closed down. ROOL I knew about (I've been
playing with RO6 on a Beagleboard-XM
RO6? I thought only RO5 ran on them?
but paying muchos cashola for the C
compiler seems like folly),
Well quite.
and I thought the CSA tree had died a death
now most ISPs have canned their Usenet offerings.
Not quite. Google Groups is free for all, for instance.
--
Liam Proven ? Profile: http://lproven.livejournal.com/profile
Email: lproven at cix.co.uk ? GMail/G+/Twitter/Flickr/Facebook: lproven
MSN: lproven at hotmail.com ? Skype/AIM/Yahoo/LinkedIn: liamproven
Tel: +44 20-8685-0498 ? Cell: +44 7939-087884
5:45 p.m.
On Wed, 8 Feb 2012, Liam Proven wrote:
Please don't reccomend people use Google Groups. There are real Usenet
servers to be had for free as long as you don't care about the binary
newsgroups. There are albasani.net and eternal-september.org which
readily spring to mind.
--
David Griffith
dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu
A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail?
and I thought
the CSA tree had died a death
now most ISPs have canned their Usenet offerings.
Not quite. Google Groups is free for all, for instance.
8:29 p.m.
On 8 February 2012 01:45, David Griffith <dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu> wrote:
On Wed, 8 Feb 2012, Liam Proven wrote:
Please don't reccomend people use Google Groups. ?There are real Usenet
servers to be had for free as long as you don't care about the binary
newsgroups. ?There are albasani.net and eternal-september.org which readily
spring to mind.
What's so wrong with GGroups? It works, on any machine with a decent
web browser, anywhere; I can use it on my Windows boxes, under my
default OS of Linux and on my Macs. I have not run a local email
client in *years* - I don't really want to have to run a local news
client, either. GReader is also pretty much the handiest RSS-type news
reader I have, as well - nothing can match the cross-platform
abilities of web-based apps.
--
Liam Proven ? Profile: http://lproven.livejournal.com/profile
Email: lproven at cix.co.uk ? GMail/G+/Twitter/Flickr/Facebook: lproven
MSN: lproven at hotmail.com ? Skype/AIM/Yahoo/LinkedIn: liamproven
Tel: +44 20-8685-0498 ? Cell: +44 7939-087884
and I
thought the CSA tree had died a death
now most ISPs have canned their Usenet offerings.
Not quite. Google Groups is free for all, for instance.
8 Feb
8 Feb
12:22 p.m.
The big
problem with the A3000 is the under-keyboard mouse socket. You
need a mouse with a thin cable and a small connector, otherwise you're
stuffed.
Ahh, right. Nothing else uses the same pinouts so that an extension lead would work - as an SVideo one works for ADB?
Only if the 2 groudnsi nthe S video cable are kept separate (this came up
a while ago here).
-tony
1:01 p.m.
Two questions:
- Amiga and atari ST uses quadrature mouse (mice!), eh? Why not use
them?
- Why not just solder a DB9 (or DE-9, whatever) and drill the cabinet?
:)
---
Enviado do meu Motorola PT550
Meu site: http://www.tabalabs.com.br
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tony Duell" <ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk>
To: <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2012 6:22 PM
Subject: Re: WTD: Acorn or similar 3-button quadrature mouse
No, it's _9_ pin mini-DIN. Like a Mac+ serial port conencotr but with 9
pins. The only other thing I can rememebr that used tht conencotr were
the Psion MC-series laptops (for the serial port)
The big problem with the A3000 is the under-keyboard
mouse socket. You
need a mouse with a thin cable and a small connector, otherwise you're
stuffed.
Ahh, right. Nothing else uses the same pinouts so that an extension lead would work - as an SVideo one works for ADB?
Only if the 2 groudnsi nthe S video cable are kept separate (this came up
a while ago here).
-tony
4484
days inactive
4486
days old
22 comments
11 participants
participants (11)
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ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
cclist＠sydex.com -
cisin＠xenosoft.com -
classiccmp＠philpem.me.uk -
coredump＠gifford.co.uk -
dgriffi＠cs.csubak.edu -
ethan.dicks＠gmail.com -
glen.slick＠gmail.com -
lproven＠gmail.com -
pu1bzz.listas＠gmail.com -
snhirsch＠gmail.com