22 Jul
1997
22 Jul
'97
4:42 a.m.
In a few assorted threads I've seen under various names like "RSTS/E
Manuals" and "Minis not 'Trendy'", several folks have put forward
the
argument that minicomputers are too large to collect easily. I have one
word: "hogwash".
For the most part, your typical minicomputer fits securely in a 19"
wide rack. They're typically either around 5.5" or 11" high, or there-
abouts, and they're usually 22-30" deep with some going a little
deeper. They stack nicely for the most part as all the surfaces are
at right angles to one another. They do weigh a certain amount, but
usually do not top 100 pounds or so.
Yes, collecting them does take creative space management.
I noticed that one chap has installed his pdp11 under his bed; good
call! I hadn't thought of that one...
Another guy gripes about putting a mini in his Honda Civic for
transport. My wife did just that when she came home with a DG Nova 1200
for me a few years back; it fit very comfortably in the trunk. I just
got back from a trip to the US Midwest with two minis in two 6' bays
in the back of my minivan (story coming on my website).
Kevan has room in his loft for a half-dozen minis or so (looked
at the pictures) once he gets things organised (sorry, Kevan) with
space left over.
I keep three minicomputers (half-height Novas) on a kitchen counter
underneath our coffee-pot (I really should get a picture of that). I
also have a small rack with three of my pdp11s in it living in the
dining-room of our house - it makes a wonderful stand-up terminal
stand. Smaller racks can be utilised as end-tables.
The ultimate space-management tool in dealing with minis is the
six-foot rack. In one of them you can mount an easy half-dozen
machines; if you share peripherals, they can all be used too. Un-
fortunately, my wife drew the line at that one, so I use the "scatter
method" of space management.
The bottom line is that _it's not as big a deal as it's made out
to be_! It can be done, it should be done, and not enough people are
doing it. The machines are disappearing - and that's a shame.
______________________________________________________________________
| | |
| Carl Richard Friend (UNIX Sysadmin) | West Boylston |
| Minicomputer Collector / Enthusiast | Massachusetts, USA |
| mailto:carl.friend@stoneweb.com | |
| http://www.ultranet.com/~engelbrt/carl/museum/ | ICBM: N42:21 W71:46 |
|________________________________________________|_____________________|
22 Jul
22 Jul
5 a.m.
I noticed that one chap has installed his pdp11
under his bed; good
call! I hadn't thought of that one...
One GOtcha though - my bed is a hospital bed (The kind you can crank up
and down) so there's plenty of space under it. But the end of the crank
rod sits above the M8186, so if someone cranks it down... *CRUNCH!*
There is now a large placard attached to the crank handle - "DO NOT TOUCH
THIS HANDLE UNLESS YOU WANT TO BUY THIS COMPUTER!"
On a similar note, the 11 itself is not much larger than a PC XT.
You can still buy an M8189 (KDF11-BA) from DEC, they cost $2215.
6 a.m.
Ok Carl,
You have me feeling guilty now and thinking of more creative storage
practices so I can keep the limited PDP stuff I have.
For the most part, your typical minicomputer fits
securely in a 19"
wide rack. They're typically either around 5.5" or 11" high, or there-
abouts, and they're usually 22-30" deep with some going a little
deeper. They stack nicely for the most part as all the surfaces are
at right angles to one another. They do weigh a certain amount, but
usually do not top 100 pounds or so.
Ok, they are a very convenient shape compared with Superbrains, Tandy
Model 4s and PETs. I only have a couple of PETs and they are a real
pain. What do other collectors do with these machines?
On the down side for storage space the manuals for minicomputers are
normally far more extensive than the typical 1/2" thick A4/A5 manual you
get with a micro.
I noticed that one chap has installed his pdp11
under his bed; good
call! I hadn't thought of that one...
I know a guy who has computers under all of the beds in his parents
house. We have a plinth around the base of our bed which means you can't
easily get or see under it, but... my wife Michelle has problems lifting
the bed so it might be the perfect place for emergency storage :-)
Kevan has room in his loft for a half-dozen minis
or so (looked
at the pictures) once he gets things organised (sorry, Kevan) with
space left over.
Your right I probably do, but I do want to get a couple of large desks
so I can put my Apollo and MG-1 on them as well as have room for the
odd micro I am playing with at the time. I guess there will be room
under the desk like there is under my current desk for two 4/110's and
an SMS 1000 (aka PDP 11/23)
(Getting things organised has started now.)
The ultimate space-management tool in dealing with
minis is the
six-foot rack. In one of them you can mount an easy half-dozen
machines; if you share peripherals, they can all be used too. Un-
fortunately, my wife drew the line at that one, so I use the "scatter
method" of space management.
I used to have computers all around the house, but since having the
loft done they all HAVE to be up there now.
The bottom line is that _it's not as big a deal
as it's made out
to be_! It can be done, it should be done, and not enough people are
doing it.
The machines are disappearing - and that's a
shame.
I don't get to hear about many minis but when I do I contact people who
I think will be interested in them. This mailing list will be the first
to hear of any.
--
Kevan
Old Computer Collector: http://staff.motiv.co.uk/~kevan/
7:46 p.m.
On Tue, 22 Jul 1997, Kevan Heydon wrote:
Ok, they are a very convenient shape compared with
Superbrains, Tandy
Model 4s and PETs. I only have a couple of PETs and they are a real
pain. What do other collectors do with these machines?
I have 3 3B1 type machines which have a configuration similar to
PETs. One is sitting on the floor of the computer room and the other
two are in storage racks in the garage. Storage racks are the only way
to store these machines. it is best to get the kind which have
adjustable shelves so it is possible to minimize the wasted space between
the monitor and the next shelf. If one lives in earthquake country I
recommend that these machines be secured or placed on lower shelves.
First, you don't want to loose your machines, and second, one of these
things falling on you from any height can cause a good deal of damage.
On the down side for storage space the manuals for
minicomputers are
normally far more extensive than the typical 1/2" thick A4/A5 manual you
get with a micro.
Exactly. The above mentioned machines came with 4 cubic feet of software
and documentation. I have one complete set, and part of another. This
takes up more space than a single 3B1. Then on the other hand, I have
been lucky(?) in a few cases and have picked up complete micro systems
where the software and docs take up more space than the micro itself.
Boxed micros also stack nicely, but they are hard to use that way.
--pec
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Saved From The Dumpster Collection: http://www.crl.com/~pcoad/machines.html
stty: TCGETS: Operation not supported on socket
Dumpster
Heydon
Jul
Kevan
Ok
PETs
Tandy
Tue
docs
http
machines.html
pcoad
pec
www.crl.com
2:03 p.m.
On Tue, 22 Jul 1997, Carl R. Friend wrote:
In a few assorted threads I've seen under
various names like "RSTS/E
Manuals" and "Minis not 'Trendy'", several folks have put forward
the
argument that minicomputers are too large to collect easily. I have one
word: "hogwash".
Another guy gripes about putting a mini in his Honda Civic for
transport. My wife did just that when she came home with a DG Nova 1200
for me a few years back; it fit very comfortably in the trunk. I just
got back from a trip to the US Midwest with two minis in two 6' bays
in the back of my minivan (story coming on my website).
I should've known better than to say that about my Honda. My point was
that Tim was complaining that nobody wanted the stuff, but the fact is,
who wants to spend hundreds of dollars in shipping or transportation
charges? Plus he's in Canada, and you'd have to deal with customs, which
I'm sure can be gotten around. Storing the stuff is no problem as I have
probably a ton of rackmount mini and s-100 equipment in my garage right
now, and I love the stuff and enjoy collecting it. Getting it to my
garage is another story. I would absolutely love to take a Nova off of
Tim's hands but I'm not willing to spend the amount of money it would
take to ship the equipment.
I keep three minicomputers (half-height Novas) on a
kitchen counter
underneath our coffee-pot (I really should get a picture of that). I
also have a small rack with three of my pdp11s in it living in the
dining-room of our house - it makes a wonderful stand-up terminal
stand. Smaller racks can be utilised as end-tables.
Hmmm, well that's all fine and dandy if you're a bachelor or your wife
could care less what kind of crap you drag into the house. I for one
would not want to subject my wife to that. She has problem enough with
the garage full of crap.
The bottom line is that _it's not as big a deal
as it's made out
to be_! It can be done, it should be done, and not enough people are
doing it. The machines are disappearing - and that's a shame.
I agree. But some people have lines they draw with their collection.
Right now I'm not fully prepared to start taking in large systems (larger
than S-100 rackmounts). I'm not going to give up my living space for the
hobby. That's where I draw the line.
Sam
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass
4:09 p.m.
On Tue, 22 Jul 1997 19:03:32 -0700 (PDT), Sam Ismail wrote:
%
%I should've known better than to say that about my Honda. My point
was
%that Tim was complaining that nobody wanted the stuff, but the fact
is,
%who wants to spend hundreds of dollars in shipping or transportation
%charges? Plus he's in Canada, and you'd have to deal with customs,
which
%I'm sure can be gotten around. Storing the stuff is no problem as I
have
%probably a ton of rackmount mini and s-100 equipment in my garage
right
%now, and I love the stuff and enjoy collecting it. Getting it to my
%garage is another story. I would absolutely love to take a Nova off
of
%Tim's hands but I'm not willing to spend the amount of money it would
%take to ship the equipment.
I'd agree here with Sam. I'd be interested in a Nova (one of the
machines I have dreamt about having) or even an eclipse, but I would
have trouble paying for the transportation. If there're Novas or
Eclipses around the Bay Area, I'd want to adopt them, but Canada's a
little far away.
%Hmmm, well that's all fine and dandy if you're a bachelor or your
wife
%could care less what kind of crap you drag into the house. I for one
%would not want to subject my wife to that. She has problem enough
with
%the garage full of crap.
My wife has no problem (yet) with 'stuff' but paying to get them is
what she doesn't quite like.
Ben
23 Jul
23 Jul
2:46 a.m.
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5:02 a.m.
On Wed, 23 Jul 1997, Tim Shoppa wrote:
These obstacles pose no difficulties to folks who try
to buy
IMSAI's from me - I've had people fly across a continent or drive
hundreds of miles to buy an IMSAI. Yet you claim that the same
difficulties are nearly insurmountable
when the machine in question is quite a bit rarer than an IMSAI,
a little bit larger and heavier than an IMSAI, but not nearly
as trendy as an IMSAI. I'm willing to bet the situation would
change instantly if there was an LA Times article about the
high collectiblity of Novae and Eclipses.
I wouldn't know as I'm not concerned with the "collectibility" aspect.
If
I could find the system locally, I would take it. I'll admit I had the
misconception that mini's are somewhat cumbersome to deal with, but after
realizing that there are a variety of about eighteen S-100, Q-bus and
Multi-bus systems sitting in my garage, getting them there isn't the big
deal. However, and my argument is, I would be loath to spend the money it
would take to ship one of these systems from somewhere else in the
country. All of the systems I have now have been picked up within a 70
mile radius, all transported in my Honda (one time I brought home 3
IMSAIs, a NorthStar Horizon, a Vector 1, twelve 8" disk boxes, a dumb
terminal, 3 Cromemco dual 8" drive units, and one IMSAI dual 8" drive
unit in my Honda, and that wasn't even my most ambitious haul), so I know
it can be done.
I suppose I am partly to blame in the equation. My
initial
posts made it sound like the Data General stuff wasn't worth
its weight in scrap metal. (Believe me, after lugging around
thousands of pounds of stuff, I sometimes think this myself...)
I like the stuff - some of it is just beautiful - and I was
hoping to convince others collectors of this as well. I've learned my
lesson: from now on, it's no longer "Bring a truck and it's yours"!
Instead, I'll whip the media into a wild frenzy... :-)
I think the problem is (at least for me it is) that it is simply not
practical to make a drive up to Canada to retrieve the stuff or have it
shipped from there. If it was something dinky like an Apple or an Atari,
then sure, it would be easy. Also, I'm waiting until I run into that
stuff locally. I live in the computer mecca of the world. I'm bound to
run into one of everything sooner or later.
Sam
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass
5:36 a.m.
On Wed, 23 Jul 1997 10:02:35 -0700 (PDT), Sam Ismail wrote:
%then sure, it would be easy. Also, I'm waiting until I run into that
%stuff locally. I live in the computer mecca of the world. I'm bound
to
%run into one of everything sooner or later.
I'm not so sure that it'll be easier to find things in the Bay Area.
Things here seem to change faster than elsewhere in the world, at
least technologically. The latest toys seem to be easier to get.
Companies rise and fall at a phenomenal rate...
Hence, many old machines have probably been long thrown away.
In other parts of the country/world, the push to acquire the latest
technologies may be absent and hence many places may still be using
machines from the 1970s/80s.
Correct me if I'm wrong. Family obligations sometimes prevent me from
scrouging around a lot so my experiences are limited.
Ben
10014
days inactive
10015
days old
8 comments
7 participants
participants (7)
-
bluesky6＠ix.netcom.com -
carl.friend＠stoneweb.com -
dastar＠crl.com -
dseagrav＠bsdserver.tek-star.net -
kevan＠motiv.co.uk -
pcoad＠crl.com -
shoppa＠alph02.triumf.ca