12 Sep
2007
12 Sep
'07
2:50 a.m.
From: "Ethan Dicks" <ethan.dicks at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: 8-bitters and multi-whatever
On 9/11/07, Allison <ajp166 at bellatlantic.net> wrote:
There were a few simple schemes but excluding myself
how many hobbiests
back then had two or more systems?
In 1982, the year you quoted for those Arcnet networks,
at age 16, I
had 4 systems, a PET, a C-64, a Cosmac Elf, and a PDP-8/L
<snip>
Of those, due to minimal I/O and/or functionality,
only the PET and the C-64 were "real" systems.
Since I couldn't afford an IEEE-488 disk drive,
rather than just move
files back and forth on tape, basing it upon the cable and software
from a contemporary "Byte" magazine, I fabricated my own
nybble-with-handshake cable between the user ports of the PET and the
C-64, and moved stuff from one to the other over that. I might have
used serial, if I'd had an ACIA-based port for my PET (there were a
couple that sat in an expansion ROM socket), or if I'd understood more
about the nature of serial comms and crufted up my own bit-banging
routines for the PET (the C-64 had that in ROM already). I understood
parallel communications, so a nybble at a time it was.
--------
You mean you didn't just make a simple cassette "null modem" cable?
I still have the 30 footer that connected my upstairs "play" PET to the
downstairs "work" one. Lots of people (especially schools)
"networked"
them that way in those distant days.
mike
12 Sep
12 Sep
2:31 p.m.
On 9/12/07, M H Stein <dm561 at torfree.net> wrote:
From: "Ethan Dicks" <ethan.dicks at gmail.com>
Until you mentioned it now, I never would have thought of it. Back in
the day, I never saw any articles in the journals about that, and
nobody at any of the user-group meetings ever mentioned it or showed
it off, but thinking about it now... I can see how it could work.
Just a passive cable? Do you have any special notes, or was it just
SAVE "FOO", 1 and LOAD "FOO", 1?
-ethan
Since I couldn't afford an IEEE-488 disk
drive, rather than just move
files back and forth on tape, basing it upon the cable and software
from a contemporary "Byte" magazine, I fabricated my own
nybble-with-handshake cable between the user ports of the PET and the
C-64, and moved stuff from one to the other over that.
You mean you didn't just make a simple cassette "null modem" cable?
I still have the 30 footer that connected my upstairs "play" PET to the
downstairs "work" one. Lots of people (especially schools)
"networked"
them that way in those distant days. 
3:03 p.m.
On Wednesday 12 September 2007 14:31, Ethan Dicks wrote:
On 9/12/07, M H Stein <dm561 at torfree.net>
wrote:
I never heard of that either, until I read it in that post...
From: "Ethan Dicks" <ethan.dicks at
gmail.com>
Until you mentioned it now, I never would have thought of it. Since I couldn't afford an IEEE-488 disk
drive, rather than just move
files back and forth on tape, basing it upon the cable and software
from a contemporary "Byte" magazine, I fabricated my own
nybble-with-handshake cable between the user ports of the PET and the
C-64, and moved stuff from one to the other over that.
You mean you didn't just make a simple cassette "null modem" cable?
I still have the 30 footer that connected my upstairs "play" PET to the
downstairs "work" one. Lots of people (especially schools)
"networked"
them that way in those distant days. Back in the day, I never saw any articles in the
journals about that, and
nobody at any of the user-group meetings ever mentioned it or showed
it off, but thinking about it now... I can see how it could work.
Indeed. There were a LOT of c= folks around these parts back when, a lot of
BBSs run on those machines, and a lot of activity focused there in the user
groups, and I also ended up with a pile of the magazines that had all sorts
of little tips and tricks and never saw it in any of those either.
Just a passive cable? Do you have any special notes,
or was it just
SAVE "FOO", 1 and LOAD "FOO", 1?
I was wondering if you'd want the ",1" in there or not myself.
--
Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and
ablest -- form of life in this section of space, ?a critter that can
be killed but can't be tamed. ?--Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters"
-
Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James
M Dakin
3:38 p.m.
On 9/12/07, Roy J. Tellason <rtellason at verizon.net> wrote:
On Wednesday 12 September 2007 14:31, Ethan Dicks
wrote:
In this case, the '1' is to designate cassette drive 1 (PETs have two,
C-64s have one). It's probably optional, but I included it out of
habit.
-ethan
On 9/12/07, M H Stein <dm561 at
torfree.net> wrote:
> From: "Ethan Dicks" <ethan.dicks at gmail.com>
>
> >Since I couldn't afford an IEEE-488 disk drive... I fabricated my own
> >nybble-with-handshake cable between the user ports of the PET and the
> >C-64...
>
> You mean you didn't just make a simple cassette "null modem" cable?
Just a passive cable? Do you have any special
notes, or was it just
SAVE "FOO", 1 and LOAD "FOO", 1?
I was wondering if you'd want the ",1" in there or not myself.
3:48 p.m.
On Wednesday 12 September 2007 15:38, Ethan Dicks wrote:
On 9/12/07, Roy J. Tellason <rtellason at
verizon.net> wrote:
Actually I never did all that much with cassette on any c= stuff (though I do
have one), and never thought about there being two of them attached to one
machine...
Too often I typed that ,1 in when executing a disk command, and there were
times when that wasn't wanted or necessary, and didn't work like I expected.
--
Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and
ablest -- form of life in this section of space, ?a critter that can
be killed but can't be tamed. ?--Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters"
-
Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James
M Dakin
On Wednesday 12 September 2007 14:31, Ethan Dicks
wrote:
In this case, the '1' is to designate cassette drive 1 (PETs have two,
C-64s have one). It's probably optional, but I included it out of
habit. On 9/12/07, M H Stein <dm561 at
torfree.net> wrote:
I was wondering if you'd want the ",1" in there or not myself. From: "Ethan Dicks" <ethan.dicks at
gmail.com>
>Since I couldn't afford an IEEE-488 disk drive... I fabricated my
> own nybble-with-handshake cable between the user ports of the PET
> and the C-64...
You mean you didn't just make a simple cassette "null modem" cable?
Just a passive cable? Do you have any special notes, or was it just
SAVE "FOO", 1 and LOAD "FOO", 1?
4:04 p.m.
On 9/12/07, Roy J. Tellason <rtellason at verizon.net> wrote:
On Wednesday 12 September 2007 15:38, Ethan Dicks
wrote:
In this case, the '1' is to designate cassette drive 1 (PETs have two,
C-64s have one). It's probably optional, but I included it out of
habit.
Actually I never did all that much with cassette on any c= stuff (though I do
have one), and never thought about there being two of them attached to one
machine...
The C-64 does not have a device at address 2, IIRC. Original PETs
used 1 as the internal (keyboard mounted) cassette, and 2 as the
external cassette. Later PETs swapped that, with 1 accessible from
the rear port, and 2 only accessible if you opened the case.
Few folks had two datasette drives on a PET, if for no other reason,
because the drives were originally $70-$100 each. It _would_ have
been handy for me to have two tape drives, but only because I did
everything on that PET with tape (which has since been converted to
tape files and disk images and I can still fire up with VICE).
Just a passive cable? Do you have any special notes,
or was it just
SAVE "FOO", 1 and LOAD "FOO", 1?
I was wondering if you'd want the ",1" in there or not myself. Too often I typed that ,1 in when executing a disk
command, and there were
times when that wasn't wanted or necessary, and didn't work like I expected.
*Nods* Yep... that was a huge shift for me when moving from the PET
to the C-64 - getting used to appending ",8" to everything.
-ethan
4:33 p.m.
The C-64 does not have a device at address 2, IIRC.
Au contraire -- the user port ("simulated" ACIA) is usually device 2.
--
------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser at floodgap.com
-- A penny saved is stupid. ---------------------------------------------------
4:56 p.m.
On 9/12/07, Cameron Kaiser <spectre at floodgap.com> wrote:
Doh! and/or Duh!
You are entirely right. I haven't written any BASIC to use it since
about 1985 (mostly just using existing comms programs), so I forgot
that was the serial "device" address.
Thanks for correcting my mistake.
-ethan
The C-64 does
not have a device at address 2, IIRC.
Au contraire -- the user port ("simulated" ACIA) is usually device 2. 
13 Sep
13 Sep
12:50 p.m.
Ethan Dicks said:
On 9/12/07, Roy J. Tellason <rtellason at
verizon.net> wrote:
Nebbich.
OPEN 1,2,0,CHR$(10+0+128)+CHR$(0+0+224)
would open the serial line at the user port with 2400Bd, 8 bit, 2
stopbits, 3wire handshake, full duplex, 7bit-ASCII, for instance.
The first byte is:
bit 3-0: 0=userbaudrate, 1=50, 2=75, 3=110, 4=134.5, 5=150, 6=300, 7=600,
8=1200, 9=1800, 10=2400, 11=(3600), 12=(4800), 13=(7200), 14=(9600),
15=(19200) with the () not implemented
bit 6-5 is bitsize: 0=8bits, 1=7bits, 2=6bits, 3=5bits
bit 7 is stopbits: 0=1bits,1=2bits
The second byte is:
bit 0: 0=3-wire-handshake, 1=x-wire-handshake (where 3 wire is CTS/DSR,
x-wire is Modem)
bit 4: 0=full duplex, 1=half duplex
bit 7-5: xx0=no parity, 001=odd parity, 011=even parity,101=bit8 allways
1, 111=bit8 always 0
After that, read and write works normally with GET# and PRINT#, however
slow as usual with BASIC.
--
Holger
On Wednesday 12 September 2007 15:38, Ethan Dicks
wrote:
Actually I never did all that much with cassette on any c= stuff (though
I do
have one), and never thought about there being two of them attached to
one
machine...
The C-64 does not have a device at address 2, IIRC. > > Just a passive cable? Do you have any
special notes, or was it
just
> SAVE
"FOO", 1 and LOAD "FOO", 1?
I was wondering if you'd want the ",1" in there or not myself.
In this case, the '1' is to designate cassette drive 1 (PETs have two,
C-64s have one). It's probably optional, but I included it out of
habit. 
12 Sep
12 Sep
7:10 p.m.
On 12/09/2007 20:03, Roy J. Tellason wrote:
On Wednesday 12 September 2007 14:31, Ethan Dicks
wrote:
> On 9/12/07, M H Stein <dm561 at torfree.net> wrote:
>> You mean you didn't just make a simple
cassette "null modem" cable?
> Until you mentioned it now, I never would have
thought of it.
I never heard of that either, until I read it in that
post...
ISTR there was some Commodore diagnostic software that you could
transfer that way, and we certainly used the same technique to transfer
diagnostics from a BBC Micro with a disk drive to cassette-based
machines we were testing or repairing. That would be around 1982-85.
We put resistors in the cables to get the levels right.
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Network Manager
University of York
6138
days inactive
6139
days old
9 comments
6 participants
participants (6)
-
dm561＠torfree.net -
ethan.dicks＠gmail.com -
holger.veit＠iais.fraunhofer.de -
pete＠dunnington.plus.com -
rtellason＠verizon.net -
spectre＠floodgap.com