11 Apr
2007
11 Apr
'07
3:33 p.m.
I have added a few new pictures to the xt/370 web site showing the stacked (and
non-stacked) versions of the MCM66128L20, as well as two other examples of IBM engineering
that employed stacked chips (AT motherboard and PC memory card) in the early 1980's.
There are 36 pairs on the AT board to get 512K and 18 pairs on the memory card to get
64K.
Obviously, these chips have different pinouts (at least select).
The url is:- www.xt370.net click on the link to the left, 'Memory Technology'
The question a data sheet might answer is:- does one of the new MCM66128L20 parts replace
one of the old stacked pairs?
--- also: --
Subject: Re: Someone in search of XT/370 software
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Only" <cctech at classiccmp.org>
He's on the list. I have at least some of VM/PC, but when I tried to
email him to let him know, I got an autoresponse from a white-list
agent, which sent me to an unresponsive URL. It was sufficiently
irritating that I figured it wasn't worth pursuing further.
Seriously, folks, if you're going to ask for help, don't make it
impossible for people to give.
ok
bear
Bear's criticism is well-founded.
I believe I have corrected the problem; I did receive the e-mails and have responded
off-list.
At any rate, I greatly appreciate the interest and am sorry for the inconvenience.
Mike
12 Apr
12 Apr
6:29 a.m.
Michael A. Ryan wrote:
I have added a few new pictures to the xt/370 web site
showing the stacked (and non-stacked) versions of the MCM66128L20, as well as two other
examples of IBM engineering that employed stacked chips (AT motherboard and PC memory
card) in the early 1980's.
There are 36 pairs on the AT board to get 512K and 18 pairs on the memory card to get
64K.
Obviously, these chips have different pinouts (at least select).
The url is:- www.xt370.net click on the link to the left, 'Memory Technology'
The question a data sheet might answer is:- does one of the new MCM66128L20 parts
replace one of the old stacked pairs?
Mike, your web page says:
"The System/370 processor is implemented in three microprocessors --
two Motorola 68000 processors and a custom 8087."
Are you sure about that? Nick Tredennick, the architect (or maybe co
architect) of the 68000 left Motorola, went to work for IBM, and was the
architect of the "micro 370". The design and its evolution were
described in a book Tredennick wrote, Microprocessor Logic Design: The
Flowchart Method.
I know nothing of the machine you have there, but I suspect it is really
using redundant copies of the micro 370 described in the book. I've
heard passing reference to this machine and have heard that it is a
68000 CPU with modified microcode, but that isn't the case. They have
similarities at some level because of the era they were design and
because of Tredennick's contribution to both.
Perhaps you are write and there was more than one micro 370 project, but
I thought I'd mention the piece of the puzzle that I know a little about.
10:36 a.m.
Jim Battle wrote:
Are you sure about that? Nick Tredennick, the
architect (or maybe co
architect) of the 68000 left Motorola, went to work for IBM, and was
the architect of the "micro 370". The design and its evolution were
described in a book Tredennick wrote, Microprocessor Logic Design: The
Flowchart Method.
I know nothing of the machine you have there, but I suspect it is
really using redundant copies of the micro 370 described in the book.
I've heard passing reference to this machine and have heard that it is
a 68000 CPU with modified microcode, but that isn't the case. They
have similarities at some level because of the era they were design
and because of Tredennick's contribution to both.
Perhaps you are write and there was more than one micro 370 project,
but I thought I'd mention the piece of the puzzle that I know a little
about.
Having worked on the IBM Micro/370 project, and having the one and only
ever working Micro/370 chip, I can assure you that the XT/370 card
predates the Micro/370. The Micro/370 is mounted on a prototype version
(Augusta Sr.) of what would have become the AT/370 card, had the project
not been canned.
So you were definitely on the right track, when you guessed it could
have been on the XT/370. I think that those chips were both 68000's
with modified microcode -- one with major changes and one with minor
changes.
--
Dick Hadsell 914-259-6320 Fax: 914-259-6499
Reply-to: hadsell at blueskystudios.com
Blue Sky Studios http://www.blueskystudios.com
44 South Broadway, White Plains, NY 10601
11:58 a.m.
Richard Hadsell wrote:
...
Having worked on the IBM Micro/370 project, and having
the one and only
ever working Micro/370 chip, I can assure you that the XT/370 card
predates the Micro/370. The Micro/370 is mounted on a prototype version
(Augusta Sr.) of what would have become the AT/370 card, had the project
not been canned.
...
That is very interesting information -- and it clears up the confusion,
at least in my head, about the two different stories that I had heard.
Both a true!
Is Nick Tredennick really as much a crank as he comes across in his
writing? No, I don't expect you to answer. :-)
12:53 p.m.
Richard Hadsell wrote:
...
> Having worked on the IBM Micro/370 project, and having the one and only
> ever working Micro/370 chip, I can assure you that the XT/370 card
> predates the Micro/370. The Micro/370 is mounted on a prototype version
> (Augusta Sr.) of what would have become the AT/370 card, had the project
> not been canned.
Does anyone on the list collect non-IBM S/360 or S/370 "clones"?
While I don't expect to see a Spectrola still around, there was a
firm called Two-Pi that in the early 80's was successful enough to be
purchased by Four Phase. Not physically huge, IIRC--and a great pun
on a name.
Cheers,
Chuck
1:52 p.m.
Chuck Guzis wrote:
I once had a line on an Amdahl 5860. I didn't have the time or money
back then to get it, but now I'm kicking myself for not having gotten it.
Peace... Sridhar
> Having
worked on the IBM Micro/370 project, and having the one and only
> ever working Micro/370 chip, I can assure you that the XT/370 card
> predates the Micro/370. The Micro/370 is mounted on a prototype version
> (Augusta Sr.) of what would have become the AT/370 card, had the project
> not been canned.
Does anyone on the list collect non-IBM S/360 or S/370 "clones"?
While I don't expect to see a Spectrola still around, there was a
firm called Two-Pi that in the early 80's was successful enough to be
purchased by Four Phase. Not physically huge, IIRC--and a great pun
on a name. 
4 p.m.
On Apr 12, 2007, at 3:53 PM, Chuck Guzis wrote:
Heh..I would if I could find any!
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire
Port Charlotte, FL
Richard
Hadsell wrote:
...
> Having worked on the IBM Micro/370 project, and having the one
> and only
> ever working Micro/370 chip, I can assure you that the XT/370 card
> predates the Micro/370. The Micro/370 is mounted on a prototype
> version
> (Augusta Sr.) of what would have become the AT/370 card, had the
> project
> not been canned.
Does anyone on the list collect non-IBM S/360 or S/370 "clones"? 
16 Dec
16 Dec
7:04 a.m.
On Thu, 2007-04-12 at 12:53 -0700, Chuck Guzis wrote:
(Catching up on list backlog, a sysiphusian task)
The Norwegian telco museum has a Univac 9300 and a Univac 9400 in
seemingly very good shape. The tape drives and DASD seem gone, but the
punch card equipment is there still, AFAICT.
-Tore
Richard
Hadsell wrote:
...
> Having worked on the IBM Micro/370 project, and having the one and only
> ever working Micro/370 chip, I can assure you that the XT/370 card
> predates the Micro/370. The Micro/370 is mounted on a prototype version
> (Augusta Sr.) of what would have become the AT/370 card, had the project
> not been canned.
Does anyone on the list collect non-IBM S/360 or S/370 "clones"?
While I don't expect to see a Spectrola still around, there was a
firm called Two-Pi that in the early 80's was successful enough to be
purchased by Four Phase. Not physically huge, IIRC--and a great pun
on a name. 
2:30 p.m.
> Does anyone on the list collect non-IBM S/360 or
S/370 "clones"?
I know very little about it,, but I have something called a 370/E (and
it's certainly not an IBM machine). I am told it runs the user-mode part
of the IBM 370 instruction set.
It's one rackmount case, about 8U high. The PCBs are the same form factor
as DEC hex-hieght boards, and are full of 74Fxxxx parts and 55ns SRAMs.
There's a PPDP11/03 that boots it and links it to an ethernet network,
that's in a seprate BA11 box.
Anyone recognise that?
-tony
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days inactive
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-
ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
cclist＠sydex.com -
frustum＠pacbell.net -
hadsell＠blueskystudios.com -
mcguire＠neurotica.com -
michaelryan＠mindspring.com -
ploopster＠gmail.com -
toresbe＠ifi.uio.no