10 Jul
2015
10 Jul
'15
5:03 a.m.
The one from my 510 does not supply the main +5V, all the other voltages
are present. Does someone have a schematic for that one, would me more
easy.
I have uploaded pictures here: http://basicfour.de/mai510-PSU/small/
Thanks a lot
Armin
10 Jul
10 Jul
2:19 p.m.
Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2015 11:03:14 +0200
From: ad at ardiehl.de
To: General at lnx.armin.d; lnx.armin.d:On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts cctalk at
classiccmp.org
Subject: Linear Power Supply (Conversion Equipment Corp) from a basic four 510
The one from my 510 does not supply the main +5V, all the other voltages
are present. Does someone have a schematic for that one, would me more
easy.
I have uploaded pictures here: http://basicfour.de/mai510-PSU/small/
Thanks a lot
Armin
Linear supplies are the easiest to fix. Most of the circuits use 723 that
are straight forward regulators. The MC3302 ( LM339 ) is most likely
an over voltage detector or such.
Get a data sheet for the 723 and I suspect you'll be able to trouble
shoot with just that and no actual schematic. I think places like Jamco
still have these chips.
Locate the one used for the +5 and measure the voltages on
the pins. It will most likely tell you the issue.
Dwight
13 Jul
13 Jul
12:28 p.m.
Thanks, yes you are right. And it is fixed now. Would have been more
easy with the schematics on hand.
But the 510 does not seem to start, may be the mini test program i have
(to boot from terminal) only works with the model 210 and not with the
510. (http://basicfour.de/cpu/small/index.html)
Would really like to have the cpu documentation, than it may be possible
to write some test code. (1300 CPU Technical Manual and/or M1300 Series
CPU Organisation and Description Reference Manual)
On 07/10/2015 08:19 PM, dwight wrote:
--
----------------
Gr?sse
Armin Diehl
ad at ardiehl.de
Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2015 11:03:14 +0200
From: ad at ardiehl.de
To: General at lnx.armin.d; lnx.armin.d:On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts cctalk at
classiccmp.org
Subject: Linear Power Supply (Conversion Equipment Corp) from a basic four 510
The one from my 510 does not supply the main +5V, all the other voltages
are present. Does someone have a schematic for that one, would me more
easy.
I have uploaded pictures here: http://basicfour.de/mai510-PSU/small/
Thanks a lot
Armin
Linear supplies are the easiest to fix. Most of the circuits use 723 that
are straight forward regulators. The MC3302 ( LM339 ) is most likely
an over voltage detector or such.
Get a data sheet for the 723 and I suspect you'll be able to trouble
shoot with just that and no actual schematic. I think places like Jamco
still have these chips.
Locate the one used for the +5 and measure the voltages on
the pins. It will most likely tell you the issue.
Dwight
14 Jul
14 Jul
12:22 a.m.
I'm not even sure what the machine is. Can you give
a little more information on what it is?
Dwight
Subject: Re: Linear Power Supply (Conversion Equipment
Corp) from a basic four 510
To: cctech at classiccmp.org
From: ad at ardiehl.de
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2015 18:28:56 +0200
Thanks, yes you are right. And it is fixed now. Would have been more
easy with the schematics on hand.
But the 510 does not seem to start, may be the mini test program i have
(to boot from terminal) only works with the model 210 and not with the
510. (http://basicfour.de/cpu/small/index.html)
Would really like to have the cpu documentation, than it may be possible
to write some test code. (1300 CPU Technical Manual and/or M1300 Series
CPU Organisation and Description Reference Manual)
On 07/10/2015 08:19 PM, dwight wrote:
--
----------------
Gr?sse
Armin Diehl
ad at ardiehl.de
Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2015 11:03:14 +0200
From: ad at ardiehl.de
To: General at lnx.armin.d; lnx.armin.d:On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts cctalk at
classiccmp.org
Subject: Linear Power Supply (Conversion Equipment Corp) from a basic four 510
The one from my 510 does not supply the main +5V, all the other voltages
are present. Does someone have a schematic for that one, would me more
easy.
I have uploaded pictures here: http://basicfour.de/mai510-PSU/small/
Thanks a lot
Armin
Linear supplies are the easiest to fix. Most of the circuits use 723 that
are straight forward regulators. The MC3302 ( LM339 ) is most likely
an over voltage detector or such.
Get a data sheet for the 723 and I suspect you'll be able to trouble
shoot with just that and no actual schematic. I think places like Jamco
still have these chips.
Locate the one used for the +5 and measure the voltages on
the pins. It will most likely tell you the issue.
Dwight
3:46 a.m.
It is the follow on to the Microdata 1600 that Basic four used in its
first business machines.
He has two machines and at least a disk for the system, I think.
Basic Four became MAI. They were noted for having a multi user basic
system for business very early on.
Also it survive(s) today with a lot of installations in the Hospitality
industry. Many of the fleabags you check into will have MAI systems if
they have terminal type systems.
These systems were probably very near the 1600 hardware wise. They
appear to have the 130pin 1600 backplane connector. I think Basic four
took slow steps away from Microdata's hardware, but eventually
progressed with all their own manufacturing, as well as moving on thru
bit slice designs, and eventually microprocessor based systems. I had a
friend who worked there in the very early stages of their 68000
systems. All while maintaining the Business Basic compatibility.
It is quite interesting to see the photos of the boards, and I am still
studying them trying to figure out how much they changed in this design.
thanks
Jim
On 7/13/2015 9:22 PM, dwight wrote:
I'm not even sure what the machine is. Can you
give
a little more information on what it is?
Dwight
> >Subject: Re: Linear Power Supply (Conversion Equipment Corp) from a basic four
510
> >To:cctech at classiccmp.org
> >From:ad at ardiehl.de
> >Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2015 18:28:56 +0200
> >
> >Thanks, yes you are right. And it is fixed now. Would have been more
> >easy with the schematics on hand.
> >
> >But the 510 does not seem to start, may be the mini test program i have
> >(to boot from terminal) only works with the model 210 and not with the
> >510. (http://basicfour.de/cpu/small/index.html)
> >
> >Would really like to have the cpu documentation, than it may be possible
> >to write some test code. (1300 CPU Technical Manual and/or M1300 Series
> >CPU Organisation and Description Reference Manual)
> >
19 Jul
19 Jul
5:43 p.m.
Yes, that is all correct. The first machines used by Basic Four (later
MAI) were Microdata machines. Basic Four released BB1 (Business Basic
Level 1) and BB2 on these machines. These were the ?blue? ones, e.g.
http://www.ricomputermuseum.org/Home/equipment/mai-basic-four-model-1200
Schematics for these are available at
http://bitsavers.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/pdf/basicFour/
Later they delivered BB3 and BB4 based on the 1300 series cpu that may
have been developed by MAI (or are these ?only? optimized Microdata
designs ?). These are the ?Orange? ones like this one:
http://basicfour.de/mai510/pics/small/index.html
I have scanned the schematics for the 1300 cpu, they are in the Service
Manual System 200/410 starting on page 166:
http://bitsavers.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/pdf/mai/BFISD8035_System200_41…
I have two of these, one system 210 equipped with a 14? harddisk (Priam
6650-30) and a system 510 equipped with 2 trident t80 drives.
Business Basic was their ?operating system? on these machines. The basic
had multi user and multi tasking capabilities as well as support for
keyed, indexed sortfiles, ?.
Later they ported this on the S10 (2x z80 cpu, one main and one video
cpu). MAI bought the hardware design as well as the CP/M 2.2
implementation on that machine. BBM (Business Basic Micro) could be
booted from a copy protected floppy. This implementation had all the
capabilities BB3 had (multiuser and multitasking worked as well). Later
they added a harddisk to this system (is was originally equipped with 2
80 track floppies)
The first machine they completely developed by themselves where the MAI
2000, based on a 68010 cpu. They licensed Unos from Charles River Data
Systems and implemented their business basic on this Unix compatible
realtime system.
I have a working model 2000 and started to write a emulator for that
machine.
Regarding the 1300 CPU, i would really know more about compatibility /
similarity between the 1300 and the Microdata 1600. Both are
microprogrammed and it may be (and I assume) that there are differences
on the microcode level. May me the macrocode (correct ? I mean the level
interpreted by the microcode) supports some similar code.
My eprommer can not read the 512x8 roms were the microcode is stored. I
have already build a avr based reader on a breadboard to read out the
proms but before removing the roms from the cpu board I want to have a
backup of the readable part of the harddisk.
I have tried to boot the 210 beginning of this year, after a lot of
retries the system booted to the basic prompt but while starting to
write a dump program the machine hung and did not reboot.
Have to do more tests without the harddisk (but what can I do without
the cpu documentation ?).
On 07/14/2015 09:46 AM, jwsmobile wrote:
It is the follow on to the Microdata 1600 that Basic
four used in its
first business machines.
He has two machines and at least a disk for the system, I think.
Basic Four became MAI. They were noted for having a multi user basic
system for business very early on.
Also it survive(s) today with a lot of installations in the
Hospitality industry. Many of the fleabags you check into will have
MAI systems if they have terminal type systems.
These systems were probably very near the 1600 hardware wise. They
appear to have the 130pin 1600 backplane connector. I think Basic
four took slow steps away from Microdata's hardware, but eventually
progressed with all their own manufacturing, as well as moving on thru
bit slice designs, and eventually microprocessor based systems. I had
a friend who worked there in the very early stages of their 68000
systems. All while maintaining the Business Basic compatibility.
It is quite interesting to see the photos of the boards, and I am
still studying them trying to figure out how much they changed in this
design.
thanks
Jim
On 7/13/2015 9:22 PM, dwight wrote:
> I'm not even sure what the machine is. Can you give
> a little more information on what it is?
> Dwight
>
>> >Subject: Re: Linear Power Supply (Conversion Equipment Corp) from a
>> basic four 510
>> >To:cctech at classiccmp.org
>> >From:ad at ardiehl.de
>> >Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2015 18:28:56 +0200
>> >
>> >Thanks, yes you are right. And it is fixed now. Would have been more
>> >easy with the schematics on hand.
>> >
>> >But the 510 does not seem to start, may be the mini test program i
>> have
>> >(to boot from terminal) only works with the model 210 and not with the
>> >510. (http://basicfour.de/cpu/small/index.html)
>> >
>> >Would really like to have the cpu documentation, than it may be
>> possible
>> >to write some test code. (1300 CPU Technical Manual and/or M1300
>> Series
>> >CPU Organisation and Description Reference Manual)
>> >
--
----------------
Gr?sse
Armin Diehl
ad at ardiehl.de
8:59 p.m.
On 7/19/2015 2:43 PM, Armin Diehl wrote:
Yes, that is all correct. The first machines used by
Basic Four (later
MAI) were Microdata machines. Basic Four released BB1 (Business Basic
Level 1) and BB2 on these machines. These were the ?blue? ones, e.g.
http://www.ricomputermuseum.org/Home/equipment/mai-basic-four-model-1200
Schematics for these are available at
http://bitsavers.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/pdf/basicFour/
Later they delivered BB3 and BB4 based on the 1300 series cpu that may
have been developed by MAI (or are these ?only? optimized Microdata
designs ?). These are the ?Orange? ones like this one:
http://basicfour.de/mai510/pics/small/index.html
I have scanned the schematics for the 1300 cpu, they are in the
Service Manual System 200/410 starting on page 166:
http://bitsavers.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/pdf/mai/BFISD8035_System200_41…
I have two of these, one system 210 equipped with a 14? harddisk
(Priam 6650-30) and a system 510 equipped with 2 trident t80 drives.
Business Basic was their ?operating system? on these machines. The
basic had multi user and multi tasking capabilities as well as support
for keyed, indexed sortfiles, ?.
Later they ported this on the S10 (2x z80 cpu, one main and one video
cpu). MAI bought the hardware design as well as the CP/M 2.2
implementation on that machine. BBM (Business Basic Micro) could be
booted from a copy protected floppy. This implementation had all the
capabilities BB3 had (multiuser and multitasking worked as well).
Later they added a harddisk to this system (is was originally equipped
with 2 80 track floppies)
The first machine they completely developed by themselves where the
MAI 2000, based on a 68010 cpu. They licensed Unos from Charles River
Data Systems and implemented their business basic on this Unix
compatible realtime system.
I have a working model 2000 and started to write a emulator for that
machine.
Regarding the 1300 CPU, i would really know more about compatibility /
similarity between the 1300 and the Microdata 1600. Both are
microprogrammed and it may be (and I assume) that there are
differences on the microcode level. May me the macrocode (correct ? I
mean the level interpreted by the microcode) supports some similar code.
The 1300 manual on the bitsavers site is nearly identical to the
Microdata "great white" manual. The CPU hardware is identical.
I saw a listing of the Microdata 1600 Basic four firmware and it is a
modified and cleaned up version of the Microdata 1630 firmware.
The Microdata 1600 itself is a microprogramned system, and can emulate
anything you want to take the time to write the code for the 1600
microcode to emulate. I have firmware to run 1130, Data General Nova
and a number of other firmware sets.
It also ran the Reality firmware which is a totally unique virtual
system. Pick Systems extended the Intertechnique version of the 1600 to
run an enhanced Pick system, and Microdata extended the design to also
expand the performance and make another 1600 based cpu to run their
Reality system. The Reality system is of course the Pick system as well.
The unmodified as designed 1600 supports 64k of core, and that is what
the Basic four had for memory. They implemented a macro code which
resembled the 1630 code, but had some of the really bad design decisions
fixed. The main problem with a multiuser system using teh 1630 is that
the subroutine calls placed the return address at the address referenced
in the instruction, and began execution at the first byte beyond that.
That made multiprogramming very messy since the return addresses were
actually in the code being executed.
The basic four instructions also had a sense of executing code from
either the first 32k of memory, in a privileged mode, and in the last
32k in a user mode. I didn't see the OS to know how that actually
worked. But there were comments in the code indicating that the last
32k could be swapped.
thanks
jim
http://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/pdf/basicFour/TM1010_Model_1200_CPU_Tech…
My eprommer can not read the 512x8 roms were the microcode is stored.
I have already build a avr based reader on a breadboard to read out
the proms but before removing the roms from the cpu board I want to
have a backup of the readable part of the harddisk.
I have tried to boot the 210 beginning of this year, after a lot of
retries the system booted to the basic prompt but while starting to
write a dump program the machine hung and did not reboot.
Have to do more tests without the harddisk (but what can I do without
the cpu documentation ?).
On 07/14/2015 09:46 AM, jwsmobile wrote:
It is the follow on to the Microdata 1600 that
Basic four used in its
first business machines.
He has two machines and at least a disk for the system, I think.
Basic Four became MAI. They were noted for having a multi user basic
system for business very early on.
Also it survive(s) today with a lot of installations in the
Hospitality industry. Many of the fleabags you check into will have
MAI systems if they have terminal type systems.
These systems were probably very near the 1600 hardware wise. They
appear to have the 130pin 1600 backplane connector. I think Basic
four took slow steps away from Microdata's hardware, but eventually
progressed with all their own manufacturing, as well as moving on
thru bit slice designs, and eventually microprocessor based systems.
I had a friend who worked there in the very early stages of their
68000 systems. All while maintaining the Business Basic compatibility.
It is quite interesting to see the photos of the boards, and I am
still studying them trying to figure out how much they changed in
this design.
thanks
Jim
On 7/13/2015 9:22 PM, dwight wrote:
> I'm not even sure what the machine is. Can you give
> a little more information on what it is?
> Dwight
>
>> >Subject: Re: Linear Power Supply (Conversion Equipment Corp) from
>> a basic four 510
>> >To:cctech at classiccmp.org
>> >From:ad at ardiehl.de
>> >Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2015 18:28:56 +0200
>> >
>> >Thanks, yes you are right. And it is fixed now. Would have been more
>> >easy with the schematics on hand.
>> >
>> >But the 510 does not seem to start, may be the mini test program i
>> have
>> >(to boot from terminal) only works with the model 210 and not with
>> the
>> >510. (http://basicfour.de/cpu/small/index.html)
>> >
>> >Would really like to have the cpu documentation, than it may be
>> possible
>> >to write some test code. (1300 CPU Technical Manual and/or M1300
>> Series
>> >CPU Organisation and Description Reference Manual)
>> >
3285
days inactive
3295
days old
6 comments
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