14 Jun
2006
14 Jun
'06
2:41 p.m.
On 14 Jun, 2006, at 05:17, cctech-request at classiccmp.org wrote:
tom:
Can you provide a source where I can purchase 11/16 inch wide
spools of
paper (prefer yellow) for the reader mentioned above
Thanks
David C. Masterson
Not yellow, but as you are in the states, try here:
http://www.wncsupply.com/paptape.html
I have a source in the UK for yellow ONE inch tape, and they
can make 11/16 to order, but minimum batch is hundreds if not
thousands of rolls.
Roger Holmes
14 Jun
14 Jun
3:38 p.m.
New subject: Paper tape supply, was Re: paper tape for GNT 4601
--- Roger Holmes <roger.holmes at microspot.co.uk> wrote:
Not yellow, but as you are in the states, try here:
http://www.wncsupply.com/paptape.html
I have a source in the UK for yellow ONE inch tape,
and they
can make 11/16 to order, but minimum batch is
hundreds if not
thousands of rolls.
I would be interested in knowing more about the state
of supply for papertape media worldwide. I have
become quite concerned about availability going
forward. In the states, I know of only two suppliers,
Western NC and Trybus. It appears that Trybus has
closed in recent months, leaving only Western NC.
Trybus owned the rights to manufacture the Arvey brand
of Mylar tape, and I believe was the sole source for
Mylar tape of any kind. I spoke with a lady at
Western NC, who confirmed that they acquired the
Trybus inventory, but that no new tape is being made.
As for actual paper tape, there is only one mill that
supplied both Trybus and Western NC. Western NC says
they plan to carry it as long as they can get it, and
they don't have any indication when the mill might
drop it. They tell me, though, that paper tape usage
is down to a trickle. I notice that both Western NC
and Trybus dropped the blue and red tape colors about
a year ago. I imagine that not much of this stuff is
being made anymore.
I imagine that many paper suppliers ought to be able
to provide tape on a custom basis, given a
sufficiently large order, but I was led to believe
that the specs for such tape as laid out in the
relevant standards were a bit difficult to fulfil,
particularly for oiled tape.
Time to stockpile tape. I just ordered another case
from WNC.
--Bill
5:24 p.m.
New subject: Paper tape supply, was Re: paper tape for GNT 4601
I imagine that many paper suppliers ought to be able
to provide tape on a custom basis, given a
sufficiently large order, but I was led to believe
that the specs for such tape as laid out in the
relevant standards were a bit difficult to fulfil,
particularly for oiled tape.
I would think that it should not be too impossible to make your own if the
supply gets really short. It may take fair amount of tweaking, but making
a pair of rolling shears (sort of like a continous sheet metal nibbler,
done with three wheels) set at whatever width you want, is reasonable.
Certainly you can get paper that is damn close to the old stuff - probably
better, now that paper is getting more acid-free. And these days, I would
use a modern silicone oil. In fact, I would think something like the oil
used on Epson copy machines would be ideal.
Making a folder might be tough, as every paper folder I have seen really
does not like a continuous stream of paper.
I still have a bunch of 1 inch tape on rolls, if anyone is interested.
William Donzelli
aw288 at osfn.org
6:24 p.m.
New subject: Paper tape supply, was Re: paper tape for GNT 4601
On Wed, 14 Jun 2006, William Donzelli wrote:
Making a folder might be tough, as every paper folder
I have seen really
does not like a continuous stream of paper.
I still have a bunch of 1 inch tape on rolls, if anyone is interested.
This is probably excessively crazy, but does anyone think it would be a
Good Idea to start a business catering specifically to the needs of people
who use old stuff like this? How much of a market is there?
--
David Griffith
dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu
A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail?
6:28 p.m.
New subject: Paper tape supply, was Re: paper tape for GNT 4601
This is probably excessively crazy, but does anyone
think it would be a
Good Idea to start a business catering specifically to the needs of people
who use old stuff like this? How much of a market is there?
Not yet - there is still a good supply of rolls on the surplus market.
Maybe the odd sizes, like for Kleinschmidts...
William Donzelli
aw288 at osfn.org
6:41 p.m.
New subject: Paper tape supply, was Re: paper tape for GNT 4601
On Wed, 14 Jun 2006, William Donzelli wrote:
I'm not talking strictly paper tape, but other odds and ends us tinkerers
use that aren't commonly found at, say, Jameco, Mouser, et al.
--
David Griffith
dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu
A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail?
This is
probably excessively crazy, but does anyone think it would be a
Good Idea to start a business catering specifically to the needs of people
who use old stuff like this? How much of a market is there?
Not yet - there is still a good supply of rolls on the surplus market.
Maybe the odd sizes, like for Kleinschmidts...
7:06 p.m.
New subject: Paper tape supply, was Re: paper tape for GNT 4601
--- David Griffith <dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu> wrote:
I'm not talking strictly paper tape, but other
odds
and ends us tinkerers
use that aren't commonly found at, say, Jameco,
Mouser, et al.
For the antique radio folks, there is Antique Radio
Supply:
http://www.tubesandmore.com/
Not only do they carry vintage/NOS parts, but have
actually sought out suitable replacements for things
such as grille cloth, knobs, etc. There are a few
specialty suppliers for vintage arcade machines as
well. I suppose that a small market opportunity might
exist for parts for the more popular mass-produced
vintage machines at some point. Todd Fischer still
sells a few replacement IMSAI parts, though I doubt he
makes much, if any, money off of it.
--Bill
15 Jun
15 Jun
10:07 a.m.
New subject: Paper tape supply, was Re: paper tape for GNT 4601
On Wednesday 14 June 2006 09:41 pm, David Griffith wrote:
On Wed, 14 Jun 2006, William Donzelli wrote:
I'm not talking strictly paper tape, but other odds and ends us tinkerers
use that aren't commonly found at, say, Jameco, Mouser, et al.
If any of you guys are looking for stuff, by all means feel free to drop me
an email, offlist. Even if I don't have it I'll get back to you saying that
and I'll know what you're looking for -- and you never can tell what I might
run across, which is all sorts of odd things.
Like this bit for example:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/
eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=ADME:L:LCA:US:31&item=8827890767
I *know* I'll never use this. :-)
--
Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and
ablest -- form of life in this section of space, a critter that can
be killed but can't be tamed. --Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters"
-
Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James
M Dakin
This is
probably excessively crazy, but does anyone think it would be a
Good Idea to start a business catering specifically to the needs of
people who use old stuff like this? How much of a market is there?
Not yet - there is still a good supply of rolls on the surplus market.
Maybe the odd sizes, like for Kleinschmidts... 
2 Dec
2 Dec
3:28 p.m.
New subject: Paper tape supply, was Re: paper tape for GNT 4601
On Wed, 2006-06-14 at 20:24 -0400, William Donzelli wrote:
I think that if this ever happened, an alternative might very well be to
just pool together as a bunch of hobbyists and order paper tapes
custom-made? I think paper mills have catered to smaller markets in the
past...
-Tore
I imagine that
many paper suppliers ought to be able
to provide tape on a custom basis, given a
sufficiently large order, but I was led to believe
that the specs for such tape as laid out in the
relevant standards were a bit difficult to fulfil,
particularly for oiled tape.
I would think that it should not be too impossible to make your own if the
supply gets really short.
3:54 p.m.
New subject: Paper tape supply, was Re: paper tape for GNT 4601
On Sun, 3 Dec 2006, Tore Sinding Bekkedal wrote:
On Wed, 2006-06-14 at 20:24 -0400, William Donzelli
wrote:
I think that if this ever happened, an alternative might very well be to
just pool together as a bunch of hobbyists and order paper tapes
custom-made? I think paper mills have catered to smaller markets in the
past...
Back in June or whenever it was when this thread was fresh, somone
suggested CNC supply companies. They have brand-new paper tape: oiled and
not, mylar, and assorted colors. However, it's all on reels. How would
someone get new fanfold paper? Maybe someone could make a machine to
decurl and fanfold reeled tape.
Sidenote: how hard would it be to make a paper tape reader and punch from
scratch? The idea is to have a lightweight unit for playing with my
SBC6120 and perhaps Altair reissue/clone (if and when I get one).
--
David Griffith
dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu
A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail?
I imagine
that many paper suppliers ought to be able
to provide tape on a custom basis, given a
sufficiently large order, but I was led to believe
that the specs for such tape as laid out in the
relevant standards were a bit difficult to fulfil,
particularly for oiled tape.
I would think that it should not be too impossible to make your own if the
supply gets really short.
8:22 p.m.
New subject: Paper tape supply, was Re: paper tape for GNT 4601
David Griffith wrote:
Sidenote: how hard would it be to make a paper tape
reader and punch from
scratch? The idea is to have a lightweight unit for playing with my
SBC6120 and perhaps Altair reissue/clone (if and when I get one).
Back in the Altair days, there was a company called Oliver Audio Engineering
that made a small optical papertape reader for hobbyist use. You pulled the
tape through manually. The read strobe was generated by sensing the sprocket
holes. It would not be difficult to recreate this device, or something
similar.
I think you'd need a machine shop and considerable skill to make a punch from
scratch, While it would not be beyond the capabilities of those folks who build
clocks and engines from scratch, you're best bet is to try to pick up one on
eBay. They show up with considerable regularity, and usually go for $100-$300.
--Bill
3 Dec
3 Dec
3:56 p.m.
New subject: Paper tape supply, was Re: paper tape for GNT 4601
David Griffith wrote:
Incidentally, I am pretty sure the 'special' ICs in this design are
nothing more than selected 555 timers (they're used as schmitt
triggers).
Sidenote: how hard would it be to make a paper
tape reader and punch from
scratch? The idea is to have a lightweight unit for playing with my
SBC6120 and perhaps Altair reissue/clone (if and when I get one).
Back in the Altair days, there was a company called Oliver Audio Engineering
that made a small optical papertape reader for hobbyist use. You pulled the tape through manually. The read strobe was generated
by sensing the sprocket
holes. It would not be difficult to recreate this device, or something
similar.
An optical paper tape reader should be fairly easy to make. I would
suggest running the tape between rollers (maybe raid parts from a VCR or
something) and take a strobe pulse from a phototransistor on the sprocket
track, rather than using sprocket feed.
I think you'd need a machine shop and considerable skill to make a punch from
scratch, While it would not be beyond the capabilities of those folks who build
clocks and engines from scratch, you're best bet is to try to pick up one on
The other problem is getting a reasonable life out of it. A good model
engineer could make a set of punch pins and a die block, but could he
harden them and then grind them to size again? It's one thing to make a
punch that will punch a few feet of tape, quite another to make a machine
that can be ysed for serious work.
-tony
4 Dec
4 Dec
3:48 p.m.
New subject: Paper tape supply, was Re: paper tape for GNT 4601
China...
On 12/3/06, Tony Duell <ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk> wrote:
Engineering
David Griffith wrote:
> Sidenote: how hard would it be to make a paper tape reader and punch
from
scratch?
The idea is to have a lightweight unit for playing with my
SBC6120 and perhaps Altair reissue/clone (if and when I get one).
Back in the Altair days, there was a company called Oliver Audio that made a small optical papertape reader for
hobbyist use. You pulled
the
Incidentally, I am pretty sure the 'special' ICs in this design are
nothing more than selected 555 timers (they're used as schmitt
triggers).
tape through manually. The read strobe was
generated by sensing the
sprocket
holes. It would not be difficult to recreate
this device, or something
similar.
An optical paper tape reader should be fairly easy to make. I would
suggest running the tape between rollers (maybe raid parts from a VCR or
something) and take a strobe pulse from a phototransistor on the sprocket
track, rather than using sprocket feed.
I think you'd need a machine shop and considerable skill to make a punch
from
scratch, While it would not be beyond the
capabilities of those folks
who build
clocks and engines from scratch, you're best
bet is to try to pick up
one on
The other problem is getting a reasonable life out of it. A good model
engineer could make a set of punch pins and a die block, but could he
harden them and then grind them to size again? It's one thing to make a
punch that will punch a few feet of tape, quite another to make a machine
that can be ysed for serious work.
-tony
7:46 p.m.
New subject: Paper tape supply, was Re: paper tape for GNT 4601
Back in the Altair days, there was a company called
Oliver Audio Engineering
that made a small optical papertape reader for hobbyist use. You pulled the
tape through manually. The read strobe was generated by sensing the sprocket
holes. It would not be difficult to recreate this device, or something
similar.
I have the OAE-OP80A and it is very simple and quite reliable - in fact I've been
using it to recover paper tapes recently. I have photos and a scan of the manual
(with schematic) on my site, under the "Misc. Items" section near the bottom of
the main page.
Btw - I've just received the first shipment of the paper tapes I was promised,
including quite a few Cromemco, Dazzler and TDL titles - I will be reading them
over the next couple of weeks and will post the data streams to my site.
Dave
--
dave06a (at) Dave Dunfield
dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com
com Collector of vintage computing equipment:
http://www.classiccmp.org/dunfield/index.html
3 Dec
3 Dec
8:11 p.m.
New subject: Paper tape supply, was Re: paper tape for GNT 4601
I have the manuals for the Oliver Audio Engineering (OP-80a) and Proko
Electronics
paper tape reader on my web site here:
http://www.dvq.com/docs/s100/
I might be able to dig up one or two of the 9 position photo detectors
if I dig deep enough into storage
for someone who is serious about building one.
Bob
William Maddox wrote:
David Griffith wrote:
Sidenote: how hard would it be to make a paper
tape reader and punch
from
scratch? The idea is to have a lightweight unit for playing with my
SBC6120 and perhaps Altair reissue/clone (if and when I get one).
Back in the Altair days, there was a company called Oliver Audio
Engineering
that made a small optical papertape reader for hobbyist use. You
pulled the
tape through manually. The read strobe was generated by sensing the
sprocket
holes. It would not be difficult to recreate this device, or something
similar.
I think you'd need a machine shop and considerable skill to make a
punch from
scratch, While it would not be beyond the capabilities of those folks
who build
clocks and engines from scratch, you're best bet is to try to pick up
one on
eBay. They show up with considerable regularity, and usually go for
$100-$300.
--Bill
6591
days inactive
6765
days old
14 comments
10 participants
participants (10)
-
ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
aw288＠osfn.org -
bobalan＠sbcglobal.net -
dave06a＠dunfield.com -
dgriffi＠cs.csubak.edu -
roger.holmes＠microspot.co.uk -
rollerton＠gmail.com -
rtellason＠verizon.net -
toresbe＠ifi.uio.no -
wmaddox＠pacbell.net