20 Oct
1999
20 Oct
'99
6:51 a.m.
-----Original Message-----
From: CLASSICCMP(a)trailing-edge.com <CLASSICCMP(a)trailing-edge.com>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Wednesday, October 20, 1999 2:14 PM
Subject: RE: Designs (was Re: OT: how big would it be?)
of
The flip chips (R205 - Dual Flip Flop) used 61 diodes, 4 transistors, 24
resistors, and 8 capacitors. Most of the Flip Chips I have are pre '67 so
they have the "round" transistors rather than the newer looking TO-92.I
would not even want to build ONE of these!
BTW: The modules were "Copryright 1964 DEC" so the patent is long gone.
If anyone has a particular OLDER processor that would be interesting if
converted to transistors then please email me (with any links to the CPU
info if you have it). I do have quite a few analog flip chips so the
processor *could* do something interesting.
A SMT unit *might* be interesting... I can get all the PCBs done I want for
free (must have some kind of standard blocks) but the SMT building might be
difficult. Can the new pick and place machines handle TO-3s [not on tape]? I
am sure I can find a surplus lot of a few thousand NPN/PNPs for pennies.
If something can be put together here *collectively* (a LOT less parts than
the usual Flip Chip board) I would be willing to buy some time on a Pick and
Place around here and have it knocked out.
john
Ok, so who
would be interested in creating a repository of "generic" gate
designs?
Are the flip chip cards copyrighted? (Somehow I doubt Compaq would come
after us if we started building them :-)
The PC artwork might be copyrighted, but the protection on the circuit
design would be a patent. And the patents have (in the case of
the "classic" technology being discussed) almost certainly expired
by now.
>Are they the correct technology? I like 'em because you can get to parts the circuit
easily, but it is more compact to put everything on just a few
boards.
Have we ruled out using SMT technology? We could easily build a 16 bit
register on a single flip chip sized card with SMT stuff.
I, personally, don't think that surface mount is the way to go. I'd prefer
to see all the transistors in TO-3 cans, though of course real transistors
on flip chips often were TO-92's, and these offer a definite cost and
density advantage (as does SMT, but I think that's a bit too far!)
Tim.
20 Oct
20 Oct
10:39 a.m.
BTW: The modules were "Copryright 1964 DEC"
so the patent is long gone.
You're confusing copyrights and patents. In the US, patents now last up
to 20 years from date of application. (It used to be 17 years from date
of grant.)
<rant>
Copyrights effectively last forever. Officially it's now 95 years (for
works for hire), but over the last 30 years, the term has gone up by 30
years. Every time a Disney film is in danger of going into the public
domain, they sic their lobbyists on Congress.
Most people have forgotten that the whole point of the Copyright system
was NOT to make sure that Disney could make money on Sleeping Beauty
forever. The purpose was to ensure that people (and companies) would
create works on which they would have a monopoly for a LIMITED TIME,
after which the work would become public domain, for the benefit of
society.
Imagine if the great works of literature from centuries past, including
the works of Shakespeare, the Greek classics, etc., still were under
copyright, and the only way to get them was to buy licensed copies from
Disney. Furthermore, Disney would put them on "moratorium", making them
unavailable for ten year stretches, in order to maximize their return.
http://www.public.asu.edu/~dkarjala/
</rant>
Anyhow, the point is that if DEC copyrighted something in 1964, it
IS still covered now, and the copyright belongs to Compaq unless it's
been sold to someone else.
9197
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