29 Jul
2020
29 Jul
'20
2:37 p.m.
Message: 32
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2020 09:35:05 -0400
From: Bill Degnan <billdegnan at gmail.com>
Robert,
It might very well be that the ROMs are fixed to their drive assignment on
the Attache. That's why assign.com is not present. You can check this
version:
https://vetusware.com/download/MS-DOS%202.11%20for%20Otrona%20Attache%202.1…
...to see if you're copy is missing assign.com for some reason.
Bill
On Tue, Jul 28, 2020 at 10:15 PM Robert Feldman via cctalk <
cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
I already have the Otrona MS-DOS 2.11 disks from Don Maslin's archive, but (as I
forgot to mention), I do not have a modern computer with a 360KB floppy drive. I have an
old Dell Precision T3400, but its BIOS will only allow 1.2MB 5.25 floppies.
The version from the Maslin Archive and both my original Otrona MS-DOS 2.11d disks (from
1983) and the MS-DOS-2.11 2.11e disks that I downloaded from FAUG after Otrona went out of
business do not include Assign or Subst. However, the 2.11e disk includes support for a
hard drive, so I believe that it can handle a C: drive.
I received a copy of Assign from MS-DOS 2.1 from another list member, so I have asked him
if he can copy it to a floppy that I can send him.
Bob
I'm trying to copy files off my Otrona
Attache 8:16 using FastLynx 3.3,
but I keep getting an error 708 when trying to push SL.EXE to the Otrona
over the serial port. I am wondering if the reason for the error is that
the Otrona does not have a C: drive. Therefore, I would like to try to use
Assign.com to assign C: to A:, but the Attache version of MS-DOS 2.11 does
not include Assign.com. Does anyone have a copy of the MS-DOS 2.11 version
of Assign.com they can send me?
Thanks,
Robert Feldman
29 Jul
29 Jul
3:35 p.m.
On Wed, 29 Jul 2020, Robert Feldman via cctalk wrote:
I already have the Otrona MS-DOS 2.11 disks from Don
Maslin's archive,
but (as I forgot to mention), I do not have a modern computer with a
360KB floppy drive. I have an old Dell Precision T3400, but its BIOS
will only allow 1.2MB 5.25 floppies.
The version from the Maslin Archive and both my original Otrona MS-DOS
2.11d disks (from 1983) and the MS-DOS-2.11 2.11e disks that I
downloaded from FAUG after Otrona went out of business do not include
Assign or Subst. However, the 2.11e disk includes support for a hard
drive, so I believe that it can handle a C: drive.
I received a copy of Assign from MS-DOS 2.1 from another list member, so
I have asked him if he can copy it to a floppy that I can send him.
Bob
MS-DOS 2.11 was one of the ones HEAVILY customized by OEMs (likewise
3.31).
2.11 sometimes had significant alterations, such as new drive types
(such as OEMs that used 3.5" drives; PC-DOS didn't support 3.5" until
PC-DOS 3.20), different videos, etc. Accordingly, SEVERAL programs, such
as MODE.COM, FORMAT.COM were different from one OEM to another.
ASSIGN.COM might not be the same in some other OEM's 2.11.
BTW, A "1.2MB" drive is fully capable of reading/writing the Otrona disks
WITH SUITABLE SOFTWARE on MOST machines.
Otrona CP/M had 10 sectors per track. If I recall correctly (unrefreshed
dynamic wetware), the sectors were numbered 0 through 9.
They had both 40 track per side and 80 track per side 400K/800K formats.
Including an 80 track per side low density MS-DOS.
The usual caveats about [re]writing "360K" in a "1.2M" drive apply.
Start with a bulk erased disk.
Otrona achieved news when IBM objected to their commercial.
Otrona showed a Charlie Chaplin look-alike trying to carry a PC down
steps. IBM asserted that THEY owned Charlie Chaplin. So, the ad
only aired half a dozen times.
Discussed in July 1983 PC Magazine p331.
Does anybody have a copy of that ad?
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin at xenosoft.com
30 Jul
30 Jul
2:41 p.m.
From: Fred Cisin <cisin at xenosoft.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2020 2:35 PM
<snip>
BTW, A "1.2MB" drive is fully capable of
reading/writing the Otrona disks
WITH SUITABLE SOFTWARE on MOST machines.
<snip>
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin at xenosoft.com
I have legal copies of several format translation programs, including Media Master and
Convert, but they are 16-bit MS-DOS programs and will not run on my Windows 10 Pro
computer. I have Windows XP and MS-DOS 6.22 running in VMs under VirtualBox, but I cannot
get the VMs to recognize my 1.2 MB drive (a Mitsumi D509V3) as a 1.2 MB drive -- the VMs
seem to think it is a 3.5" 1.44MB drive, so the drive is not readable in the VM and
the translation programs run but don't work. Also, the BIOS does not have support for
any 5.25" floppy capacity other than 1.2MB. If I try to read 360KB floppies, I get a
failure message with the comment that the floppies are most likely unformatted.
It looks like I will have to break down and get a real 386 or 486 PC so I can use a real
360KB floppy drive and run MS-DOS directly.
Bob
4:44 p.m.
<snip>
On Thu, 30 Jul 2020, Robert Feldman via cctalk wrote:
BTW, A "1.2MB" drive is fully capable
of reading/writing the Otrona disks
WITH SUITABLE SOFTWARE on MOST machines.
<snip> I have legal copies of several format translation
programs, including
Media Master and Convert, but they are 16-bit MS-DOS programs and will
not run on my Windows 10 Pro computer. I have Windows XP and MS-DOS 6.22
running in VMs under VirtualBox, but I cannot get the VMs to recognize
my 1.2 MB drive (a Mitsumi D509V3) as a 1.2 MB drive -- the VMs seem to
think it is a 3.5" 1.44MB drive, so the drive is not readable in the VM
and the translation programs run but don't work. Also, the BIOS does not
have support for any 5.25" floppy capacity other than 1.2MB. If I try to
read 360KB floppies, I get a failure message with the comment that the
floppies are most likely unformatted.
That is tragic.
Hence the need for the word "MOST".
In addition to suitable software, the hardware needs to support a 300K
bits per second data transfer rate with a "1.2M" 360RPM drive, OR a 250K
data transfer rate with a 300RPM drive.
I'm sad that they would build a machine that can't even read traditional
distribution floppies (360K, but also 160K/180K/320K).
If we were sufficiently insane, it would seem to be possible to use its
500K data transfer rate with a drive modified to run at 600 RPM.
(similarly to some early Sony 3.5" drives)
It looks like I will have to break down and get a real
386 or 486 PC so
I can use a real 360KB floppy drive and run MS-DOS directly.
Sadly, yes.
If the machine will at least handle "720K" 3.5" (which is a 250K data
transfer rate), then it could still be used, IFF the "1.2M" is
300RPM/360RPM switchable.
But, one unit of classic hardware, or slightly less brain-dead "modern",
or even a flux transition reader, would solve it. And, permit access to
many hundreds of other disk formats.
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin at xenosoft.com
1535
days inactive
1536
days old
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