28 Oct
2008
28 Oct
'08
10:34 a.m.
Hi folks,
It seems to me that self-hosting 16-bit compilers for old minicomputers
are very thin on the ground. Yet from my viewpoint they are interesting
and worth preserving, because they are a good demonstration of what
could be achieved using fairly limited hardware.
Recently, I've been looking at the Data General RDOS Fortran IV compiler
manual. It seems a very comprehensive version of the language, and it's
actually Fortran '66 with some extensions, and looks very practical.
However, the standard RDOS images for SIMH don't come with the Fortran
compiler, only assembler.
Here are the only two references I've found on the net for the Fortran
IV tapes:
http://www.chookfest.net/nova3/paper-tapes.html
http://www.ludd.luth.se/~ragge/nova/swdocs.html
How easy would it be to get these tapes transcribed; dumped onto an RDOS
disk and made available for SIMH?
-cheers from julz @P
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28 Oct
28 Oct
8:04 p.m.
Did you check with Bruce Ray at http://www.simulogics.com/
E-mail Address(es):
bkr at WildHareComputers.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Julian Skidmore" <julianskidmore at yahoo.com>
To: <cctech at classiccmp.org>
Cc: <emil at chookfest.net>; <contrib at bitsavers.org>
Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 5:34 AM
Subject: DG Tapes: Nova Fortran IV
Hi folks,
It seems to me that self-hosting 16-bit compilers for old minicomputers
are very thin on the ground. Yet from my viewpoint they are interesting
and worth preserving, because they are a good demonstration of what
could be achieved using fairly limited hardware.
Recently, I've been looking at the Data General RDOS Fortran IV compiler
manual. It seems a very comprehensive version of the language, and it's
actually Fortran '66 with some extensions, and looks very practical.
However, the standard RDOS images for SIMH don't come with the Fortran
compiler, only assembler.
Here are the only two references I've found on the net for the Fortran
IV tapes:
http://www.chookfest.net/nova3/paper-tapes.html
http://www.ludd.luth.se/~ragge/nova/swdocs.html
How easy would it be to get these tapes transcribed; dumped onto an RDOS
disk and made available for SIMH?
-cheers from julz @P
__________________________________________________
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Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
29 Oct
29 Oct
12:07 a.m.
The short version of the story is...
EMC still considers all of its Data General 16-bit software intellectual
property, subject to license restrictions and not available for any
non-approved distribution. There is no "hobbyist" or "educational
use" or
"non-commercial use" exceptions at this point. The one-of-a-kind RDOS
license for use with SIMH is truly a thorn in the EMC legal department's
side, and they state that it applies to that specific version and copy of
RDOS (i.e. does not extend to any other flavor of RDOS, such as Eclipse, or
Mapped Eclipse, or Mapped Nova, or Mapped Nova 3, or...). Perhaps the
upcoming year will see a change in the official EMC position... ;-)
If you were looking at compilers, then the DG FORTRAN 5 could be compared to
the FORTRAN IV. The F5 compiler was a very impressive piece of software,
and dwarfed the FIV product in almost all aspects. And if you wanted an
even better sample of what could be done in a 16-bit environment, then look
at the original DG ALGOL, and its subsequent DG/L compiler. In fact, the DG
F5 compiler was written in ALGOL. Truly a fantastic, under-appreciated
16-bit computer implementation.
Bruce
Bruce Ray
Wild Hare Computer Systems, Inc.
bkr at WildHareComputers.com
...preserving the Data General legacy: www.NovasAreForever.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "George Wiegand" <ics65 at sbcglobal.net>
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Only" <cctech at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 02:04 PM
Subject: Re: DG Tapes: Nova Fortran IV
Did you check with Bruce Ray at
http://www.simulogics.com/
E-mail Address(es):
bkr at WildHareComputers.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Julian Skidmore" <julianskidmore at yahoo.com>
To: <cctech at classiccmp.org>
Cc: <emil at chookfest.net>; <contrib at bitsavers.org>
Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 5:34 AM
Subject: DG Tapes: Nova Fortran IV
Hi folks,
It seems to me that self-hosting 16-bit compilers for old minicomputers
are very thin on the ground. Yet from my viewpoint they are interesting
and worth preserving, because they are a good demonstration of what
could be achieved using fairly limited hardware.
Recently, I've been looking at the Data General RDOS Fortran IV compiler
manual. It seems a very comprehensive version of the language, and it's
actually Fortran '66 with some extensions, and looks very practical.
However, the standard RDOS images for SIMH don't come with the Fortran
compiler, only assembler.
Here are the only two references I've found on the net for the Fortran
IV tapes:
http://www.chookfest.net/nova3/paper-tapes.html
http://www.ludd.luth.se/~ragge/nova/swdocs.html
How easy would it be to get these tapes transcribed; dumped onto an RDOS
disk and made available for SIMH?
-cheers from julz @P
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
12:54 p.m.
"Bruce Ray" wrote:
The short version of the story is...
EMC still considers all of its Data General 16-bit software intellectual
property, subject to license restrictions and not available for any
non-approved distribution. There is no "hobbyist" or "educational
use" or
"non-commercial use" exceptions at this point. The one-of-a-kind RDOS
license for use with SIMH is truly a thorn in the EMC legal department's
side, and they state that it applies to that specific version and copy of
RDOS (i.e. does not extend to any other flavor of RDOS, such as Eclipse, or
Mapped Eclipse, or Mapped Nova, or Mapped Nova 3, or...). Perhaps the
upcoming year will see a change in the official EMC position... ;-)
I'd find it humorous if a barrage of email went to Joe Tucci (he's the
CEO). This email used to work: Tucci_Joe at emc.com
I have no love for EMC or their attitudes or practices.
-brad
2:23 p.m.
I'd find it humorous if a barrage of email went to
Joe Tucci (he's the
CEO).
Would it be humorous if Mr. Tucci then decides to simply destroy all
Data General software and ban any chance of a hobbyist license during
his time at EMC? Just because of a relative few hobbyists acted like
dicks?
--
Will
2:26 p.m.
Not that anything like that has ever happened before. <sigh>
My inference from Bruce Ray's email is that someone is in talks with EMC, and it seems
it would be ill-advised to stir things up. -- Ian
________________________________________
From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of
William Donzelli [wdonzelli at gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 7:23 AM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: DG Tapes: Nova Fortran IV
I'd find it humorous if a barrage of email went to
Joe Tucci (he's the
CEO).
Would it be humorous if Mr. Tucci then decides to simply destroy all
Data General software and ban any chance of a hobbyist license during
his time at EMC? Just because of a relative few hobbyists acted like
dicks?
--
Will
30 Oct
30 Oct
8:51 a.m.
Hi Julian,
All my paper tapes are currently in storage along with my DG minis. I
tried archiving some of them but was unable to get a decent reading
with the equipment I had. Unfortunately, all I can offer at this point
is encouragement. :-(
Have fun!
Emil
On 28/10/2008, at 9:34 PM, Julian Skidmore wrote:
Hi folks,
It seems to me that self-hosting 16-bit compilers for old
minicomputers
are very thin on the ground. Yet from my viewpoint they are
interesting
and worth preserving, because they are a good demonstration of what
could be achieved using fairly limited hardware.
Recently, I've been looking at the Data General RDOS Fortran IV
compiler
manual. It seems a very comprehensive version of the language, and
it's
actually Fortran '66 with some extensions, and looks very practical.
However, the standard RDOS images for SIMH don't come with the Fortran
compiler, only assembler.
Here are the only two references I've found on the net for the Fortran
IV tapes:
http://www.chookfest.net/nova3/paper-tapes.html
http://www.ludd.luth.se/~ragge/nova/swdocs.html
How easy would it be to get these tapes transcribed; dumped onto an
RDOS
disk and made available for SIMH?
-cheers from julz @P
__________________________________________________
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Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
5682
days inactive
5684
days old
6 comments
7 participants
participants (7)
-
brad＠heeltoe.com -
bruce＠Wild-Hare.com -
emil＠chookfest.net -
IanK＠vulcan.com -
ics65＠sbcglobal.net -
julianskidmore＠yahoo.com -
wdonzelli＠gmail.com