15 Jan
2003
15 Jan
'03
6:40 p.m.
With Tony et al as my inspiration, I have recently started to learn
electronics. I've been at it a couple of days, and tonight I just had the
"aha!" for how high-pass and low-pass filters work. I haven't come across
anything yet that has me completely stumped, but if I do, is it appropriate
to ask newbie questions about electronics here?
I'm supposed to *answer* questions like that, but I just don't know.
Typically, I call electronics conversations as on-topic because they are
directly relevant to operating classic computers. Newbie questions, however,
are more indirect. For another example, we'll help someone with a Windows
program that somehow makes his/her classiccmp go, but I doubt we'll bother
to teach a person in-list how to double-click. Is electronics any different?
--
Jeffrey Sharp
16 Jan
16 Jan
9:08 a.m.
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9:21 a.m.
How about creating a new list we can elect to subscribe to or not.
ccelectrons(a)classicmp.org or something?
--John
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk-admin(a)classiccmp.org
[mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On
Behalf Of Tony Duell
Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2003 14:19
To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: About Electronics Questions
With Tony et al as my inspiration, I have recently started to learn
electronics. I've been at it a couple of days, and tonight
I just had the
"aha!" for how high-pass and low-pass
filters work. I
haven't come across
anything yet that has me completely stumped, but
if I do,
is it appropriate
to ask newbie questions about electronics here?
Hmmm...
THis list covers restoration of classic computers, right?
Before you can
restore the electronic side of a computer, you have to
understand how it
works. And I can't think of a single circuit that's not been
used in some
classic computer, somewhere.
On the other hand, the reply to some newbie electronic
questions might
well be RTFB (B=Book, the Fine Book, is of course, 'The Art of
Electronics':-)).
But I certainly won't object to electronic discussions here.
-tony
9:27 a.m.
We have enough stuff that *really* is OT so how about another list
called OT(a)classiccmp.org? Electronics questions seem like a *very*
appropriate topic on this list, and I have absolutely no problems with
discussions of electronics taking place here.
"J.C.Wren" wrote:
How about creating a new list we can elect to subscribe to or not.
ccelectrons(a)classicmp.org or something?
--John
> -----Original Message-----
> From: cctalk-admin(a)classiccmp.org
> [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On
> Behalf Of Tony Duell
> Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2003 14:19
> To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org
> Subject: Re: About Electronics Questions
>
>
> >
> > With Tony et al as my inspiration, I have recently started to learn
> > electronics. I've been at it a couple of days, and tonight
> I just had the
> > "aha!" for how high-pass and low-pass filters work. I
> haven't come across
> > anything yet that has me completely stumped, but if I do,
> is it appropriate
> > to ask newbie questions about electronics here?
>
> Hmmm...
>
> THis list covers restoration of classic computers, right?
> Before you can
> restore the electronic side of a computer, you have to
> understand how it
> works. And I can't think of a single circuit that's not been
> used in some
> classic computer, somewhere.
>
> On the other hand, the reply to some newbie electronic
> questions might
> well be RTFB (B=Book, the Fine Book, is of course, 'The Art of
> Electronics':-)).
>
> But I certainly won't object to electronic discussions here.
>
> -tony
>
9:55 a.m.
IMHO questions about electronics are entirely ON topic, just like
discussions of how to best clean plastic panels, mold new plastic switches,
and paint metal cabinets are on topic. With the single caveat that it be
either about electronics theory/repair as germane to old systems and power
supplies and the like. I'd rather not have excessively long discussions
about audio stereo amplifier circuits though.
I am sure many here would benefit from such discourse, as has already
happened here in the past.
---
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10:54 a.m.
And while we're about it, let's also have
IBM-maingrams(a)classicmp.org (so those who don't have room for such a
machine don't have to read about them)
Minis(a)classiccmp.org (so the home-computer enthusiasts don't have to
read about PDP11s)
PCs(a)classiccmp.org (so those who believe that no IBM clone is ever
'classic' don't get bothered with messages about them)
Cleaning-plastic(a)classiccmp.org
Metalwork(a)classiccmp.org (for people who want to make new mechanical
parts for their printers and disk drives)
Wow, I've never seen my sarcasm meter quite so pegged. I think it's broken
now due to overload *GRIN*
Jay West
---
[This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus]
11:10 a.m.
Yea, that's a for-sure assessment. If this is the case, then perhaps
what's considered "Off Topic" needs to be severely revisited. I'm all
for
things CC related, but where do you draw the line? And I kind of figured
that the electronics classes might draw it's own brand of off-topicisms.
One can see a siderail into microcontrollers (they are computing devices,
and they are over 10 years old). Does everyone else want to read about
them? Or just "real" classic computers?
My thinking it was more out of consideration for others than segration
because y'all who don't subscribe are no longer good enough.
--John
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk-admin(a)classiccmp.org
[mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On
Behalf Of Jay West
Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2003 16:57
To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: About Electronics Questions
And while we're about it, let's also
have
IBM-maingrams(a)classicmp.org (so those who don't have room for such a
machine don't have to read about them)
Minis(a)classiccmp.org (so the home-computer enthusiasts don't have to
read about PDP11s)
PCs(a)classiccmp.org (so those who believe that no IBM clone is ever
'classic' don't get bothered with messages about them)
Cleaning-plastic(a)classiccmp.org
Metalwork(a)classiccmp.org (for people who want to make new mechanical
parts for their printers and disk drives)
Wow, I've never seen my sarcasm meter quite so pegged. I
think it's broken
now due to overload *GRIN*
Jay West
---
[This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] 
11:34 a.m.
Actually I've recently considered unsubscribing. I really don't care
for DEC's, big iron or mini's, no disrespect to those who do collect
them, but I no longer have the time to wade through all of the traffic.
I would really like to split the list into the "big iron" side and
"micro/workstation" side. I'm on some lists run out of the Low End Mac
site and really appreciate how Dan has divided his list by machine class
and topic.
James
J.C.Wren wrote:
Yea, that's a for-sure assessment. If this is
the case, then perhaps
what's considered "Off Topic" needs to be severely revisited. I'm all
for
things CC related, but where do you draw the line? And I kind of figured
that the electronics classes might draw it's own brand of off-topicisms.
One can see a siderail into microcontrollers (they are computing devices,
and they are over 10 years old). Does everyone else want to read about
them? Or just "real" classic computers?
My thinking it was more out of consideration for others than segration
because y'all who don't subscribe are no longer good enough.
--John
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk-admin(a)classiccmp.org
[mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On
Behalf Of Jay West
Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2003 16:57
To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: About Electronics Questions
And while we're about it, let's also have
IBM-maingrams(a)classicmp.org (so those who don't have room for such a
machine don't have to read about them)
Minis(a)classiccmp.org (so the home-computer enthusiasts don't have to
read about PDP11s)
PCs(a)classiccmp.org (so those who believe that no IBM clone is ever
'classic' don't get bothered with messages about them)
Cleaning-plastic(a)classiccmp.org
Metalwork(a)classiccmp.org (for people who want to make new mechanical
parts for their printers and disk drives)
Wow, I've never seen my sarcasm meter quite so pegged. I
think it's broken
now due to overload *GRIN*
Jay West
---
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4:42 p.m.
New subject: List suggestions & anniversary (was Re: About Electronics Questions)
On Thu, 16 Jan 2003, James Rice wrote:
Actually I've recently considered unsubscribing.
I really don't care
for DEC's, big iron or mini's, no disrespect to those who do collect
them, but I no longer have the time to wade through all of the traffic.
I would really like to split the list into the "big iron" side and
"micro/workstation" side. I'm on some lists run out of the Low End Mac
site and really appreciate how Dan has divided his list by machine class
and topic.
Just do what most people do:
DELETE--DELETE--DELETE--DELETE--READ--DELETE--DELETE--READ--...
Works way better than suggesting to split the list up (which has been
suggested and argued to hell and back at least 5 times during the life of
this list, which averages out to about once a year).
BTW, ClassicCmp's 6th anniversary is coming up in February. Does anyone
know where Bill Whitson is?
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
* Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *
17 Jan
17 Jan
7:34 a.m.
James Rice sez...
Actually I've recently considered unsubscribing. I really don't care
for DEC's, big iron or mini's, no disrespect to those who do collect
them, but I no longer have the time to wade through all of the traffic.
I would really like to split the list into the "big iron" side and
"micro/workstation" side. I'm on some lists run out of the Low End Mac
site and really appreciate how Dan has divided his list by machine class
and topic.
I've just started actively reading the list again after a few months out,
and have no problems filtering -- I guess my main comment would be,
"please use a filterable subject" -- at least filterable by humans.
For example, if it doesn't have "pdp", or "dec" in the title, I
just
file it. Dead simple. Perhaps we could agree that the first word or
two in the subject line would be the filter keyword. for example:
Electronics: how do I unsolder a dead 2N2222?
PDP: how has PDP-12's?
PC: I need to fix my C64 disk drive...
General: introduction
etc...
???
Cheers,
-RK
James
J.C.Wren wrote:
--
Looking for Digital Equipment Corp. PDP-1 through PDP-15 minicomputers!
Robert Krten, PARSE Software Devices +1 613 599 8316.
Realtime Systems Architecture, Consulting and Training at www.parse.com
Yea, that's a for-sure assessment. If this
is the case, then perhaps
what's considered "Off Topic" needs to be severely revisited. I'm all
for
things CC related, but where do you draw the line? And I kind of figured
that the electronics classes might draw it's own brand of off-topicisms.
One can see a siderail into microcontrollers (they are computing devices,
and they are over 10 years old). Does everyone else want to read about
them? Or just "real" classic computers?
My thinking it was more out of consideration for others than segration
because y'all who don't subscribe are no longer good enough.
--John
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk-admin(a)classiccmp.org
[mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On
Behalf Of Jay West
Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2003 16:57
To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: About Electronics Questions
And while we're about it, let's also have
IBM-maingrams(a)classicmp.org (so those who don't have room for such a
machine don't have to read about them)
Minis(a)classiccmp.org (so the home-computer enthusiasts don't have to
read about PDP11s)
PCs(a)classiccmp.org (so those who believe that no IBM clone is ever
'classic' don't get bothered with messages about them)
Cleaning-plastic(a)classiccmp.org
Metalwork(a)classiccmp.org (for people who want to make new mechanical
parts for their printers and disk drives)
Wow, I've never seen my sarcasm meter quite so pegged. I
think it's broken
now due to overload *GRIN*
Jay West
---
[This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] 
5:54 p.m.
On Thu, 16 Jan 2003, Robert Krten wrote:
James Rice sez...
Yeah, but you have to allow for "Re:" and "Re: Re:" also.
- don
Actually I've recently considered unsubscribing. I really don't care
for DEC's, big iron or mini's, no disrespect to those who do collect
them, but I no longer have the time to wade through all of the traffic.
I would really like to split the list into the "big iron" side and
"micro/workstation" side. I'm on some lists run out of the Low End Mac
site and really appreciate how Dan has divided his list by machine class
and topic.
I've just started actively reading the list again after a few months out,
and have no problems filtering -- I guess my main comment would be,
"please use a filterable subject" -- at least filterable by humans.
For example, if it doesn't have "pdp", or "dec" in the title, I
just
file it. Dead simple. Perhaps we could agree that the first word or
two in the subject line would be the filter keyword. for example:
Electronics: how do I unsolder a dead 2N2222?
PDP: how has PDP-12's?
PC: I need to fix my C64 disk drive...
General: introduction etc...
???
Cheers,
-RK
James
J.C.Wren wrote:
--
Looking for Digital Equipment Corp. PDP-1 through PDP-15 minicomputers!
Robert Krten, PARSE Software Devices +1 613 599 8316.
Realtime Systems Architecture, Consulting and Training at www.parse.com
Yea, that's a for-sure assessment. If this
is the case, then perhaps
what's considered "Off Topic" needs to be severely revisited. I'm all
for
things CC related, but where do you draw the line? And I kind of figured
that the electronics classes might draw it's own brand of off-topicisms.
One can see a siderail into microcontrollers (they are computing devices,
and they are over 10 years old). Does everyone else want to read about
them? Or just "real" classic computers?
My thinking it was more out of consideration for others than segration
because y'all who don't subscribe are no longer good enough.
--John
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk-admin(a)classiccmp.org
[mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On
Behalf Of Jay West
Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2003 16:57
To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: About Electronics Questions
>And while we're about it, let's also have
>IBM-maingrams(a)classicmp.org (so those who don't have room for such a
>machine don't have to read about them)
>
>Minis(a)classiccmp.org (so the home-computer enthusiasts don't have to
>read about PDP11s)
>
>PCs(a)classiccmp.org (so those who believe that no IBM clone is ever
>'classic' don't get bothered with messages about them)
>
>Cleaning-plastic(a)classiccmp.org
>
>Metalwork(a)classiccmp.org (for people who want to make new mechanical
>parts for their printers and disk drives)
Wow, I've never seen my sarcasm meter quite so pegged. I
think it's broken
now due to overload *GRIN*
Jay West
---
[This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus]
16 Jan
16 Jan
11:50 a.m.
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17 Jan
17 Jan
10:37 a.m.
Another question would be : where should one go to discuss electronics? I
have 2 projects I'd like some feedback on : repairing an ancient guitar
tube amp (specifically, I think the caps in the power supply are
hosored, causing a loud humm... but where to buy high voltage caps of
non-standard capcitance?), and I'd really like to get into PIC programming.
I'd really like to have a resource where I can ask all the newbie
questions that crop up. (Yes, I've RTFMed, but far to often there's
little subtle things that aren't obvious, but that someone with experience
will know.
On 16-Jan-2003 Tony Duell wrote:
Perhaps it should be user-programmable (or patchable
in the case of
an analogue machine). This would rule out embedded microcontorllers,
but would allow computers based round microcontrollers (the Philips
G7000 (Magnavox something-or-other) has an 8048 as the main CPU, but I
don't think many would call it a microcontroller, for example).
Odessey?
-Philip
11:10 a.m.
You could poke thru the GB archives below
http://www.mines.uidaho.edu/ftp/pub/Glowbugs/GBArchives/
And maybe even ask the odd question if you subscribe to the list. Primarily
ham radio oriented but anything to do with tubes seems to be 'on topic'
Don't even think about PICs while there though!
For them- there are message boards and forums attached to a lot of the PIC
and microcontroller sites around- try them.
Dave B
CH CH, NZ
----- Original Message -----
From: <liste(a)artware.qc.ca>
To: <cctech(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Saturday, January 18, 2003 10:40 AM
Subject: Re: About Electronics Questions
Another question would be : where should one go to discuss electronics? I
have 2 projects I'd like some feedback on : repairing an ancient guitar
tube amp (specifically, I think the caps in the power supply are
hosored, causing a loud humm... but where to buy high voltage caps of
non-standard capcitance?), and I'd really like to get into PIC
programming.
I'd really like to have a resource where I can
ask all the newbie
questions that crop up. (Yes, I've RTFMed, but far to often there's
little subtle things that aren't obvious, but that someone with experience
will know.
On 16-Jan-2003 Tony Duell wrote:
Perhaps it should be user-programmable (or
patchable in the case of
an analogue machine). This would rule out embedded microcontorllers,
but would allow computers based round microcontrollers (the Philips
G7000 (Magnavox something-or-other) has an 8048 as the main CPU, but I
don't think many would call it a microcontroller, for example).
Odessey?
-Philip
11:40 a.m.
liste(a)artware.qc.ca wrote:
Another question would be : where should one go to
discuss electronics? I
have 2 projects I'd like some feedback on : repairing an ancient guitar
tube amp (specifically, I think the caps in the power supply are
hosored, causing a loud humm... but where to buy high voltage caps of
non-standard capcitance?),
I get all my valve amp parts from this place:
http://vibroworld.com/parts/tech.html
Simon
10:46 p.m.
Well for me the newsgroups were always the biggest
source of info. The sci.electronics ones have a lot of
helpful people and there are the various music ones.
The web I find for the most part frustrating and time
consuming. If I don't get an answer on the list or it's
too off-topic I next search the newsgroups for a
suitable milleu. As much as I learned on the list,
and I must say I'm fond of it, I've learned twice as
much on the comp.sys.ibm.ps2.hardware, and at
one time on the Atari St one, for my particular needs.
Lawrence
On 17 Jan 2003, , liste(a)artware.qc.ca wrote:
Another question would be : where should one go to discuss
electronics? I have 2 projects I'd like some feedback on :
repairing an ancient guitar tube amp (specifically, I think
the caps in the power supply are hosored, causing a loud
humm... but where to buy high voltage caps of non-standard
capcitance?), and I'd really like to get into PIC
programming.
I'd really like to have a resource where I can ask all the
newbie
questions that crop up. (Yes, I've RTFMed, but far to often
there's little subtle things that aren't obvious, but that
someone with experience will know.
On 16-Jan-2003 Tony Duell wrote:
lgwalker@ mts.net
Perhaps it should be user-programmable (or
patchable in
the case of an analogue machine). This would rule out
embedded microcontorllers, but would allow computers based
round microcontrollers (the Philips G7000 (Magnavox
something-or-other) has an 8048 as the main CPU, but I
don't think many would call it a microcontroller, for
example).
Odessey?
-Philip
16 Jan
16 Jan
3:25 p.m.
On Thursday, January 16, 2003, J.C.Wren wrote:
One can see a siderail into microcontrollers (they are
computing devices,
and they are over 10 years old). Does everyone else want to read about
them?
I do. I did a lot of microcontroller firmware coding at a previous job, and
that, more than any other kind of programming I've done, felt closest to
what I *think* it felt like to program classiccmps in their day. Of course,
I wouldn't really know how close an approximation it is, since I never lived
through the real thing.
--
Jeffrey Sharp
17 Jan
17 Jan
12:08 p.m.
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16 Jan
16 Jan
9:24 a.m.
Tony Duell wrote:
Hmmm...
On the other hand, the reply to some newbie electronic questions might
well be RTFB (B=Book, the Fine Book, is of course, 'The Art of
Electronics':-)).
And a damn fine book it is too! Seeing this prompted me to check if it
was still in print (it is), since it would be a crying shame if it were
not - I consider my copy worth every penny paid for it.
But I certainly won't object to electronic discussions here.
-tony
10:43 a.m.
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8:02 p.m.
I've never seen that one. My main source is Grob's
"Basic Electronics" which was the text-book in one
of my electronic courses or the on-line sci.electonics
FAQ.
Lawrence
On 16 Jan 2003, , Tony Duell wrote:
Well, I like it enough to have both editions and both lab
manuals....
There are some things in it that I disagree with, but
actually, that applies to just about any book I've ever
read. I don't recall anything that made me scream out 'THey
are suggesting WHAT ?!!!?!?'
There are some areas of electronics it doesn't cover that
well (active filters and RF being 2 areas that I would want
other books for). But it'll give you a good understanding of
the basics and beyond (way beyond) of most of electronics.
And when you've read and understood most of it, you'll (a)
be able to make sense of most other electronics books and
(b) you'll be able to make up your own mind one which bits
you don't fully agree with.
-tony
lgwalker@ mts.net
On the other hand, the reply to some newbie electronic
questions might well be RTFB (B=Book, the Fine Book, is
of course, 'The Art of Electronics':-)).
And a damn fine book it is too! Seeing this prompted me to
check if it
7857
days inactive
7860
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22 comments
14 participants
participants (14)
-
ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
dave＠naffnet.org.uk -
donm＠cts.com -
foo＠siconic.com -
jcwren＠jcwren.com -
jrice54＠charter.net -
jss＠subatomix.com -
jwest＠classiccmp.org -
lgwalker＠mts.net -
liste＠artware.qc.ca -
marvin＠rain.org -
root＠parse.com -
simona＠428wilson.com -
tractorb＠ihug.co.nz