12 Jun
2001
12 Jun
'01
3:38 p.m.
I'm sitting here in the middle of the night listening to Amstrad CPC music.
For those of you who don't know, the CPC had an AY-3-8910. The same chip
could be found on late Spectrum models and apparently also in the Research
Machines Nimbus. The Atari ST uses a Yamaha clone of the same chip, called
YM2149. I believe that the MSX uses such a chip, too.
However, when running a Windows programs called STSOUND, which emulates said
chip, I saw that the ST drives its blipp-blopp chip at 2 MHz, whereas the
Spectrum and Amstrad run their chips at lower rates. In what way does this
really affect the sound? The change is perfectly audible, but what does it do?
Does it just affect the throughput, replaying the tune faster, or does it
affect the waveforms, and in that case, in what way?
Another question: The Sega Master System and the BBC use an SN76489 sound
chip. Both the AY/YM chip and the SN one are "PSG" chips. That means that
they've got three square wave channels and a noise channel which may (at least
on the AY/YM) be mixed with the square channels. But are those chips related,
or are they just chips which happen to use the same techniques?
BTW, I must add that the PSG chips are really pathetic in comparison to the
SID. I suppose they beat the Atari's Pokey, though. =)
--
En ligne avec Thor 2.6a.
A conservative is a worshipper of dead radicals.
14 Jun
14 Jun
10:57 a.m.
BTW, I must add that the PSG chips are really pathetic
in comparison to the
SID. I suppose they beat the Atari's Pokey, though. =)
For 1978, the Atari Pokey (as well as the Antic and
CTIA/GTIA) were pretty advanced.
Jeff
--
Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems:
Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File
http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757
1:03 p.m.
New subject: Does anyone collect Apollo workstations?
Are DN300's or a DN330 of any interest?
The DN3XX machines have a nice external drive box that features a half-height
8-inch floppy, probably DSDD. I have a number of these, along with the 8 inch
winchester disks.
What about the DN660? (thats a cool Apollo!) Plays an awesome game of battle
zone!
Or the DN3000, DN3500, DN4000 style machines?
3:07 p.m.
New subject: Does anyone collect Apollo workstations?
A buddy of mine here in Orlando, semi-collects them. He has two (330s I
think). He used to be on this list but couldn't keep up with the traffi so
he dropped off. The same guy is a real nut about Compupros and he has a
TON of those!
Joe
At 09:03 PM 6/14/01 -0400, you wrote:
Are DN300's or a DN330 of any interest?
The DN3XX machines have a nice external drive box that features a half-height
8-inch floppy, probably DSDD. I have a number of these, along with the 8 inch
winchester disks.
What about the DN660? (thats a cool Apollo!) Plays an awesome game of battle
zone!
Or the DN3000, DN3500, DN4000 style machines?
15 Jun
15 Jun
3:34 a.m.
New subject: Does anyone collect Apollo workstations?
I have one DN3010 presently. I am expecting delivery on
7 more Apollo DN3500's. This is my first experience
putting together a collection. My decision was to
stick to one make of computer so as to get to know
it real well.
It's nice to hear of other Apollo collectors out there, too.
On Thu, Jun 14, 2001 at 09:03:08PM -0400, Bob Shannon wrote:
Are DN300's or a DN330 of any interest?
The DN3XX machines have a nice external drive box that features a half-height
8-inch floppy, probably DSDD. I have a number of these, along with the 8 inch
winchester disks.
What about the DN660? (thats a cool Apollo!) Plays an awesome game of battle
zone!
Or the DN3000, DN3500, DN4000 style machines?
--
Bill William Staniewicz
Amsterdam, NL
14 Jun
14 Jun
5:27 p.m.
BTW, I must add
that the PSG chips are really pathetic in comparison to the
SID. I suppose they beat the Atari's Pokey, though. =)
For 1978, the Atari Pokey (as well as the Antic and
CTIA/GTIA) were pretty advanced. 
10:58 a.m.
Wasn't the AY3-8910 a speech generator or is that a different gimmick? I seem
to remember having one somewhere in the "pit." IIRC, it uses a 3.12 MHz
crystal
in the then-popular application. It is, BTW, (if it's the part I'm thinking of)
easily interfaced via the parallel printer port on nearly any Micro.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: "Iggy Drougge" <optimus(a)canit.se>
To: "Classic computing" <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2001 9:38 PM
Subject: Sound chips
I'm sitting here in the middle of the night
listening to Amstrad CPC music.
For those of you who don't know, the CPC had an AY-3-8910. The same chip
could be found on late Spectrum models and apparently also in the Research
Machines Nimbus. The Atari ST uses a Yamaha clone of the same chip, called
YM2149. I believe that the MSX uses such a chip, too.
However, when running a Windows programs called STSOUND, which emulates said
chip, I saw that the ST drives its blipp-blopp chip at 2 MHz, whereas the
Spectrum and Amstrad run their chips at lower rates. In what way does this
really affect the sound? The change is perfectly audible, but what does it do?
Does it just affect the throughput, replaying the tune faster, or does it
affect the waveforms, and in that case, in what way?
Another question: The Sega Master System and the BBC use an SN76489 sound
chip. Both the AY/YM chip and the SN one are "PSG" chips. That means that
they've got three square wave channels and a noise channel which may (at least
on the AY/YM) be mixed with the square channels. But are those chips related,
or are they just chips which happen to use the same techniques?
BTW, I must add that the PSG chips are really pathetic in comparison to the
SID. I suppose they beat the Atari's Pokey, though. =)
--
En ligne avec Thor 2.6a.
A conservative is a worshipper of dead radicals.
11:46 a.m.
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12:55 p.m.
Incidentally, Tandy/Radio Shack sold a speech/sound
cartridge for the
CoCo. It contained a microcontroller, an SPO256 speech chip and an
AY-3-891x sound chip.
Didn't they sell the SPO256 alone, among all the other single
IC's? I know that even recently I've seen their 'speech chip' on the
shelf but have never bothered to notice exactly who's chip it is.
Jeff
--
Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems:
Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File
http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757
15 Jun
15 Jun
12:47 a.m.
Back in the early '80's they sold that speech chip in a blister pack. I think
the crux was getting the 3.12 MHz (I remember that only because getting one was
such a PITA) crystal, though, for which the device was specified, and which had
to come from somewhere else at the time. Aside from having to translate the
timing intervals, I think a color-burst crystal would probably work with this
device, though. A 10-12% increase in pitch wouldn't make much difference as far
as intellibility is concerned.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Hellige" <jhellige(a)earthlink.net>
To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2001 6:55 PM
Subject: Re: Sound chips
Incidentally,
Tandy/Radio Shack sold a speech/sound cartridge for the
CoCo. It contained a microcontroller, an SPO256 speech chip and an
AY-3-891x sound chip.
Didn't they sell the SPO256 alone, among all the other single
IC's? I know that even recently I've seen their 'speech chip' on the
shelf but have never bothered to notice exactly who's chip it is.
Jeff
--
Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems:
Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File
http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757
1:40 a.m.
They may very well still sell it. I built a parallel port speech sythethiser
from one and plans from one of the then popular
computer or electronics
magazines. I may even have it still in one the boxes that
I packed way back
and haven't since opened. It had the same phonetics system as some of the
SoundBlaster chips and had the same monotone speak that the old Dr. SBaitso
and that Hawkings' synth have. Nonetheless it was cool to hear speech from
my 8088 then.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org
[mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Richard Erlacher
Sent: Friday, June 15, 2001 7:48 AM
To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: Sound chips
Back in the early '80's they sold that speech chip in a blister pack. I
think
the crux was getting the 3.12 MHz (I remember that only because getting one
was
such a PITA) crystal, though, for which the device was specified, and which
had
to come from somewhere else at the time. Aside from having to translate the
timing intervals, I think a color-burst crystal would probably work with
this
device, though. A 10-12% increase in pitch wouldn't make much difference as
far
as intellibility is concerned.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Hellige" <jhellige(a)earthlink.net>
To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2001 6:55 PM
Subject: Re: Sound chips
Incidentally,
Tandy/Radio Shack sold a speech/sound cartridge for the
CoCo. It contained a microcontroller, an SPO256 speech chip and an
AY-3-891x sound chip.
Didn't they sell the SPO256 alone, among all the other single
IC's? I know that even recently I've seen their 'speech chip' on the
shelf but have never bothered to notice exactly who's chip it is.
Jeff
--
Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems:
Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File
http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757
3:30 a.m.
I've got a salvaged "set" if you can call it that, of the NSC Digitalker
chips,
i.e. a 40-pin "B218DIGITALKER" and a ROM presumably designed for the specific
application, which, in this case, was a security system, for which this device
was the telephone interface that called the authorities or someone when an
intrusion was detected. I once intended to use it for something similar to what
was done with that SPO256 speech chip that Radio Shack made popular, but didn't
get around to it.
If anyone's interested, I'll happily send the pair + associated 4 MHz crystal,
to whoever wants to pay the postage. (USPS Priority Mail = $3.50).
This was part of a microcontroller (COP444L) based board that had an RF
interface common in many building-security systems of the early '80's working
not unlike a garage door opener, and a built in phone-line interface, though no
modem was needed since the interface was audio. These boards all had a common
flaw, i.e. a capacitor in the phone line interface that was broken open. That
presumably had no effect on the integrity of the voice generation circuitry, as
it was buffered with an LM386 amplifier.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: "Alice Blakeman" <aeb56(a)bigfoot.com>
To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Friday, June 15, 2001 7:40 AM
Subject: RE: Sound chips
They may very well still sell it. I built a parallel
port speech sythethiser
from one and plans from one of the then popular computer or electronics
magazines. I may even have it still in one the boxes that I packed way back
and haven't since opened. It had the same phonetics system as some of the
SoundBlaster chips and had the same monotone speak that the old Dr. SBaitso
and that Hawkings' synth have. Nonetheless it was cool to hear speech from
my 8088 then.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org
[mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Richard Erlacher
Sent: Friday, June 15, 2001 7:48 AM
To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: Sound chips
Back in the early '80's they sold that speech chip in a blister pack. I
think
the crux was getting the 3.12 MHz (I remember that only because getting one
was
such a PITA) crystal, though, for which the device was specified, and which
had
to come from somewhere else at the time. Aside from having to translate the
timing intervals, I think a color-burst crystal would probably work with
this
device, though. A 10-12% increase in pitch wouldn't make much difference as
far
as intellibility is concerned.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Hellige" <jhellige(a)earthlink.net>
To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2001 6:55 PM
Subject: Re: Sound chips
Incidentally, Tandy/Radio Shack sold a speech/sound cartridge for the
CoCo. It contained a microcontroller, an SPO256 speech chip and an
AY-3-891x sound chip.
Didn't they sell the SPO256 alone, among all the other single
IC's? I know that even recently I've seen their 'speech chip' on the
shelf but have never bothered to notice exactly who's chip it is.
Jeff
--
Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems:
Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File
http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757
9:57 a.m.
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7:47 a.m.
Jeff Hellige skrev:
>Incidentally, Tandy/Radio Shack sold a speech/sound
cartridge for the
>CoCo. It contained a microcontroller, an SPO256 speech chip and an
>AY-3-891x sound chip.
Didn't they sell the SPO256 alone, among all the
other single
IC's? I know that even recently I've seen their 'speech chip' on the
shelf but have never bothered to notice exactly who's chip it is.
Would it be possible to get a hold of an AY-3-891x or compatible nowadays, by
any chance? Otherwise, I suppose I can scavenge some Atari carcass.
--
En ligne avec Thor 2.6a.
Goto: A programming tool that exists to allow structured programmers to
complain about unstructured programmers.
17 Jun
17 Jun
2:37 a.m.
I beleive I have a pair of ay-3-8910 psg's in my junk box (err, room).
Iggy Drougge wrote:
Jeff Hellige skrev:
>Incidentally, Tandy/Radio Shack sold a
speech/sound cartridge for the
>CoCo. It contained a microcontroller, an SPO256 speech chip and an
>AY-3-891x sound chip.
Didn't they sell the SPO256 alone, among
all the other single
IC's? I know that even recently I've seen their 'speech chip' on the
shelf but have never bothered to notice exactly who's chip it is.
Would it be possible to get a hold of an AY-3-891x or compatible nowadays, by
any chance? Otherwise, I suppose I can scavenge some Atari carcass.
--
En ligne avec Thor 2.6a.
Goto: A programming tool that exists to allow structured programmers to
complain about unstructured programmers.
14 Jun
14 Jun
2:57 p.m.
I do believe you're right, Tony. I had an occasion to hook up both these chips
back in the early '80's when my partner got a couple of samples and wanted to
play with them. I attached the speech device to the printer port because I
envisioned packaging it together with an LM386 amp in a little speaker box, with
direct connection to the printer port. It worked adequately and my partner, a
very talented software weenie, had the thing talking quite well within an hour
or so. I began to regret I'd let him take it with him after seeing the fruits
of his effort a week later. I didn't think much of the chip, yet he'd gotten it
to where it spoke as well as he did, albeit in somewhat of a monotone.
Judicious use of the silences made the speech quite intellegible.
I don't remember a thing about the music chip. <sigh>
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tony Duell" <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk>
To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2001 5:46 PM
Subject: Re: Sound chips
>
> Wasn't the AY3-8910 a speech generator or is that a different gimmick? I
seem
> to remember having one somewhere in the
"pit." IIRC, it uses a 3.12 MHz
crystal
> in the then-popular application. It is, BTW, (if
it's the part I'm thinking
of)
easily
interfaced via the parallel printer port on nearly any Micro.
No, you're thinking of the SPO256-AL2 speech sythesiser chip. The -AL2
suffix BTW meant that the sounds were 'allophones' which could be
combined to make most Engish words. There were other, custom, versions
with different ROM programming which had limited vocabulary, but which
could say a complete word given a single command. Somewhere I have one of
those for a digital clock application.
The AY-3-8910 (and -8912, -8913) had 3 internal tone generators, an
noise generator, 'mixer', amplitude envelope generator, etc. They were
tone/music generator ICs. The difference between the 3 versions was that
the -8910 has 2 8 bit I/O ports, the -8912, 1 I/O port and the -8913
none.
All were designed to connect to a multiplexed address/data bus on the
processor side, but it wasn't hard to use them with most microprocessors.
They certainly turned up in a lot of machines (Oric, Einstein to name but
2 of the less obvious ones).
Incidentally, Tandy/Radio Shack sold a speech/sound cartridge for the
CoCo. It contained a microcontroller, an SPO256 speech chip and an
AY-3-891x sound chip. The microcontroller was programmed to do
text-to-speech conversions and to sequence the sound chip so it could
automatically play tunes, etc.
-tony
15 Jun
15 Jun
4:19 a.m.
On 13 Jun 2001 4:38:45 +0100 Iggy Drougge
<optimus(a)canit.se> wrote:
For those of you who don't know, the CPC had an
AY-3-8910. The same chip
could be found on late Spectrum models and apparently also in the Research
Machines Nimbus. The Atari ST uses a Yamaha clone of the same chip, called
YM2149. I believe that the MSX uses such a chip, too.
I think MSX includes the AY-3-8910, yes. So does the
Vectrex vector-scan video game console (6809 CPU).
I built an AY-3-8910 interface for my trusty UK101 back in
about 1981. Bit of a strange bus, since it was designed to
work directly with a GE microcontroller.
Another question: The Sega Master System and the BBC
use an SN76489 sound
chip. Both the AY/YM chip and the SN one are "PSG" chips. That means that
they've got three square wave channels and a noise channel which may (at least
on the AY/YM) be mixed with the square channels. But are those chips related,
or are they just chips which happen to use the same techniques?
Unrelated, as far as I know.
Wasn't there an SN76488 sound chip that was analog, as
opposed to the digital SN76489? And has enyone ever seen
or used the Yamaha FM synthesis chip that was upward
compatible with the YM2149?
--
John Honniball
Email: John.Honniball(a)uwe.ac.uk
University of the West of England
8:04 a.m.
John Honniball skrev:
On 13 Jun 2001 4:38:45 +0100 Iggy Drougge
<optimus(a)canit.se> wrote:
> For those of you who don't know, the CPC had an AY-3-8910. The same chip
> could be found on late Spectrum models and apparently also in the Research
> Machines Nimbus. The Atari ST uses a Yamaha clone of the same chip, called
> YM2149. I believe that the MSX uses such a chip, too.
I think MSX includes the AY-3-8910, yes. So does the
Vectrex vector-scan video game console (6809 CPU).
I checked (of course I had a file with MSX info on my hard drive, silly me),
and indeed it's got an AY-3-8910, though I wouldn't be surprised if many used
the YM2149 considering the Japanese origin of many MSXes. I think I'll have a
look in mine, though they are respectively Korean and Hongkongese (I think I
just discovered a pothole in the English language =).
> Another question: The Sega Master System and the
BBC use an SN76489 sound
> chip. Both the AY/YM chip and the SN one are "PSG" chips. That means that
> they've got three square wave channels and a noise channel which may (at
> least on the AY/YM) be mixed with the square channels. But are those chips
> related, or are they just chips which happen to use the same techniques?
Unrelated, as far as I know.
There can't be that much of a difference sound-wise, though, seeing as they're
both PSG, right?
Wasn't there an SN76488 sound chip that was analog,
as
opposed to the digital SN76489? And has enyone ever seen
or used the Yamaha FM synthesis chip that was upward
compatible with the YM2149?
The SN76489, that was a Philips chip, right? It was used in some late eight-
bit UK micro, right? Was it the SAM Coup? or the Enterprise?
Why not just have a look at the hard drive once again? =)
Nope, the Enterprise had a Philips SAA1099. Six channels, eight octaves (don't
ask me what that means, I suppose it's some fancy way of saying X to X Hz).
So who used the SN chip and who made it? And how does one use an analogue
sound chip?
This URL, if it still exists, could come in handy:
http://www.tardis.ed.ac.uk/~alexios/MACHINE-ROOM/xrefs.html
There is a datasheet for the SN76489 at:
http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/bbc/doc/datasheets/SN76489.zip
It's just a load of scanned images, but can't the data sheets be ordered from
the manufacturer, then?
--
En ligne avec Thor 2.6a.
Computers are not intelligent. They only think they are.
16 Jun
16 Jun
5:39 a.m.
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18 Jun
18 Jun
1:14 a.m.
New subject: HH Tiger
I managed to acquire an HH Tiger last week. This is a fine
old British microcomputer, made by HH Electronics in
Cambridge in about 1983. It has a Z80 and a 6809 CPU, plus
a 7220 graphics chip.
Does anyone know anything about the company and/or the
machine? Did the company really go out of business as a
result of the development costs of the Tiger?
And a specific question about the machine: which of the
three ribbon cable connectors under the keyboard
(BBC-Micro-style) should I connect the disk drives to?
They're all the same size, unpolarised and unlabelled --
British design at its best! :-)
--
John Honniball
Email: John.Honniball(a)uwe.ac.uk
University of the West of England
5:52 a.m.
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8589
days inactive
8595
days old
21 comments
10 participants
participants (10)
-
aeb56＠bigfoot.com -
ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
bshannon＠tiac.net -
edick＠idcomm.com -
jhellige＠earthlink.net -
John.Honniball＠uwe.ac.uk -
mikeford＠socal.rr.com -
optimus＠canit.se -
rigdonj＠intellistar.net -
wstan＠localhostnl.demon.nl