21 Jul
2005
21 Jul
'05
1:43 p.m.
Now I'm not an expert on these, indeed I know
nothing at all about apples,
but these look pretty weird to me - are they actually what they say they
are, and really common? eBay item 5219329581 (expensive as usual, so no
bids) for three linotype boxes, one of which has a disc drive with an apple
logo on it. (Listing has some larger pics linked from it).
I don't think they are Apple's. Linotype made printing presses didn't
they (still do?). Could these be interfaces for said printing presses.
Early DTP type stuff. Maybe one was specifically retrofitted with an
Apple Disk II drive for loading Apple files onto the press system.
-chris
<http://www.mythtech.net>
21 Jul
21 Jul
1:41 p.m.
On Thu, 21 Jul 2005, chris wrote:
I don't think they are Apple's. Linotype made
printing presses didn't
they (still do?). Could these be interfaces for said printing presses.
Early DTP type stuff. Maybe one was specifically retrofitted with an
Apple Disk II drive for loading Apple files onto the press system.
You'd still need the magic of the Disk ][ controller to read Apple ][
disks.
--
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
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23 Jul
23 Jul
1:05 p.m.
On Thu, 21 Jul 2005, chris wrote:
The cable sitting in the empty drive bay of the one with the Apple-badged
disk drive looks about the right size for an Apple disk drive.
Gordon.
I don't think they are Apple's. Linotype
made printing presses didn't
they (still do?). Could these be interfaces for said printing presses.
Early DTP type stuff. Maybe one was specifically retrofitted with an
Apple Disk II drive for loading Apple files onto the press system.
You'd still need the magic of the Disk ][ controller to read Apple ][
disks. 
21 Jul
21 Jul
2:01 p.m.
>>>> "chris" == chris <cb at
mythtech.net> writes:
> Now I'm not an expert on these, indeed I know
nothing at all about
> apples, but these look pretty weird to me - are they actually what
> they say they are, and really common? eBay item 5219329581
> (expensive as usual, so no bids) for three linotype boxes, one of
> which has a disc drive with an apple logo on it. (Listing has
> some larger pics linked from it).
chris> I don't think they are Apple's. Linotype made printing presses
chris> didn't they (still do?). Could these be interfaces for said
chris> printing presses. Early DTP type stuff.
No, Linotype did not make printing presses. They made (make?)
typesetting machines. Originally the "hot metal" machines from which
the company got its name. Later, they made various electronic
typesetting machines, fed from paper tape, larger computers (like
PDP-11/70s), or possibly from PC class computers.
It does look a bit like a DTP type setup (text entry system for a
standalone electronic typesetter). At least that's what the captions
on the middle photo suggest.
Those boxes also look pretty seriously stripped.
paul
2:27 p.m.
Lynotype made lead casting typesetting equipment. These cabinets look
like the earliest Lyno cabinets that became optical typesetters.
My bet is it is an early commercial system they marketed to semi
automate a Lynotype lead line casting machine. Maybe was based on an
apple computer and serial control to run the analog typesetter.
I think at one time Lynotype tried driving the keys with solenoids run
by a computer.
Lynotype never made printing presses, mostly typesetting equipment.
Paxton
2:45 p.m.
>>>> "Paxton" == Paxton Hoag
<innfoclassics at gmail.com> writes:
Paxton> Lynotype made lead casting typesetting equipment.
It's spelled "Linotype", though.
Paxton> My bet is it is an early commercial system they marketed to
Paxton> semi automate a Lynotype lead line casting machine. Maybe was
Paxton> based on an apple computer and serial control to run the
Paxton> analog typesetter.
Paxton> I think at one time Lynotype tried driving the keys with
Paxton> solenoids run by a computer.
They certainly had linecasting machines driven from paper tape. I
don't know if those used solenoids on a keyboard; it could be, or it
could be solenoids actuating the guts behind the keyboard.
In any case, Linotype had moved into phototypesetting machines by the
time Apple appeared on the scene. So while it's possible in theory, I
very much doubt a desktop computer type device would drive a
linecaster -- far more likely that it would drive a phototypesetter.
In the late 1970s, Linotype made a very well regarded range of
computer-controlled phototypesetters named "Linotron". They were
compact and inexpensive, and produced reasonably good output. (Not as
good as the competition, companies like Autologic -- but they were
quite a lot smaller and less costly.)
paul
22 Jul
22 Jul
1:58 a.m.
Paul Koning <pkoning at equallogic.com> writes:
They certainly had linecasting machines driven from
paper tape.
In 1935. Yow.
Linotype was almost always a cutting edge company;
highlights of the company history, from
http://www.linotype.com/10-10-10-14026/1973.html
1975 introduced machines with floppy drives
1978 introduced machines which stored fonts as outline vectors
1985 lino, adobe, apple, and itc "cooperate in typography and technology"
by the early 90s they had 1200 and 2400 dpi postscript RIP's and
tabloid sized laser printers for use as typesetters.
some of the original postscript fonts were licensed from
them by adobe; they seem to own helvetica, optima, and palatino
among others. They merged with Hell, a printing press maker,
around 1990. Today they exist as a font vendor, owned by Heidelberg
(probably the world's foremost printing press maker).
those boxes on ebay might not be stripped, except for that one missing
drive; industrial stuff like this often has open option slots.
apple II's did get embedded into some pretty unusual places.
Around 1983 I saw one running the player piano roll punching
equipment at QRS.
In 1997, the self-storage facility in nj that I moved out of
still had one controlling the whole operation; alarm system,
entry gate keycode, printing the bills, etc.
Both of those were still in beige plastic cases, though;
I've never seen one mounted inside something else. Unless
you count the II's on a card for the Mac LC, of course.
7:25 a.m.
At 12:58 AM 7/22/2005, Andrew K. Bressen wrote:
Paul Koning <pkoning at equallogic.com> writes:
Mark Twain lost much of his fortune betting on the typesetting
race in the 1880s. See http://www.marktwainhouse.org/themuseum/archivist.shtml
for a bit about the Paige automatic type compositor and its
competition with Linotype.
- John
They certainly had linecasting machines driven
from paper tape.
In 1935. Yow.
Linotype was almost always a cutting edge company;
10:46 a.m.
On Fri, 22 Jul 2005, Andrew K. Bressen wrote:
Both of those were still in beige plastic cases,
though;
I've never seen one mounted inside something else. Unless
you count the II's on a card for the Mac LC, of course.
Remember that lots of Apple ][ clones appeared in very interesting and
different cases.
--
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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6:09 p.m.
On Fri, 22 Jul 2005, Andrew K. Bressen wrote:
> Both of those were still in beige plastic cases, though;
> I've never seen one mounted inside something else. Unless
> you count the II's on a card for the Mac LC, of course.
On Fri, 22 Jul 2005, Vintage Computer Festival wrote:
Remember that lots of Apple ][ clones appeared in very
interesting and
different cases.
The first Apple that I ever had was a used, "repaired",
"converted", "euro" ][ motherboard that somebody had stuck
in a discarded PROCessor TechnOLOGY Sol case,
with an external RCA membrane keyboard!
I had a lot of difficulties with it until I started
replacing sockets on it with Augat "machined pin" sockets.
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin at xenosoft.com
7:02 p.m.
On Fri, 22 Jul 2005, Fred Cisin wrote:
The first Apple that I ever had was a used,
"repaired",
"converted", "euro" ][ motherboard that somebody had stuck
in a discarded PROCessor TechnOLOGY Sol case,
with an external RCA membrane keyboard!
Wow, what an ultimate kludge! I love it!
--
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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8:42 p.m.
> The first Apple that I ever had was a used,
"repaired",
> "converted", "euro" ][ motherboard that somebody had stuck
> in a discarded PROCessor TechnOLOGY Sol case,
> with an external RCA membrane keyboard!
On Fri, 22 Jul 2005, Vintage Computer Festival wrote:
Wow, what an ultimate kludge! I love it!
Nicest case that I've ever had - certainly makes Northstar look like
plywood :-)
The RCA keyboard had a lousy feel, but it could withstand a lot of abuse
(splashproof?)
The motherboard was pretty bad. Corroded sockets, and LOTS of cold
solder joints. Wires all over the place. Some previous owner had
apparently carefully followed "instructions" for converting a Euro
board, converting to different (EP)ROM chips, etc.,
but was even worse at soldering than I am.
9:18 p.m.
On Fri, 22 Jul 2005, Fred Cisin wrote:
So whatever happened to this Franken-][?
--
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> The first
Apple that I ever had was a used, "repaired",
> "converted", "euro" ][ motherboard that somebody had stuck
> in a discarded PROCessor TechnOLOGY Sol case,
> with an external RCA membrane keyboard!
On Fri, 22 Jul 2005, Vintage Computer Festival wrote:
Wow, what an ultimate kludge! I love it!
Nicest case that I've ever had - certainly makes Northstar look like
plywood :-)
The RCA keyboard had a lousy feel, but it could withstand a lot of abuse
(splashproof?)
The motherboard was pretty bad. Corroded sockets, and LOTS of cold
solder joints. Wires all over the place. Some previous owner had
apparently carefully followed "instructions" for converting a Euro
board, converting to different (EP)ROM chips, etc.,
but was even worse at soldering than I am.
9:37 p.m.
On Fri, 22 Jul 2005, Vintage Computer Festival wrote:
So whatever happened to this Franken-][?
I gave it to Frank Hatfield almost 20 years ago;
no idea who got it when he died.
One of the first computers that I regret having parted with.
If I had it now, it would be a difficult choice of whether to
preserve it as an example of our idiocy in those days;
or take it apart, give the case to a Sol person,
and give the motherboard to somebody across the pond who would convert it
back into a Euro board.
9:53 p.m.
On Fri, 22 Jul 2005, Fred Cisin wrote:
If I had it now, it would be a difficult choice of
whether to preserve
it as an example of our idiocy in those days; or take it apart, give the
case to a Sol person, and give the motherboard to somebody across the
pond who would convert it back into a Euro board.
It would be something you'd DEFINITELY want to keep together.
--
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
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5:21 p.m.
New subject: Linoterm/Linotype (was: Apple?
among others. They merged with Hell, a printing press
maker,
We added our own second SA800 drive to a Merganthaler.
After the threats that they made to us, I was not at
all surprised to see them goto Hell.
Remember the Rochester Dynatyper and the KGS-80?
Those were the second fastest way that data was
transferred into that machine.
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin at xenosoft.com
7:05 p.m.
New subject: Hell
On Fri, 22 Jul 2005, Andrew K. Bressen wrote:
some of the original postscript fonts were licensed
from
them by adobe; they seem to own helvetica, optima, and palatino
among others. They merged with Hell, a printing press maker,
around 1990. Today they exist as a font vendor, owned by Heidelberg
(probably the world's foremost printing press maker).
They actually do not own the FONTS (or typefaces) but they own
(trademark) the NAMES "Helvetica", "Times Roman", etc.
Anybody can make a similar, or even copy, of the font,
but they have to pay to use the name.
(Think "Arial")
23 Jul
23 Jul
10:28 a.m.
New subject: Hell
>>>> "Fred" == Fred Cisin
<cisin at xenosoft.com> writes:
Fred> On Fri, 22 Jul 2005, Andrew K. Bressen wrote:
> some of the original postscript fonts were
licensed from them by
> adobe; they seem to own helvetica, optima, and palatino among
> others. They merged with Hell, a printing press maker, around
> 1990. Today they exist as a font vendor, owned by Heidelberg
> (probably the world's foremost printing press maker).
Fred> They actually do not own the FONTS (or typefaces) but they own
Fred> (trademark) the NAMES "Helvetica", "Times Roman", etc.
Anybody
Fred> can make a similar, or even copy, of the font, but they have to
Fred> pay to use the name. (Think "Arial")
True in the USA, not true elsewhere. The USA refuses to acknowledge
the fact that artistry is involved in font design, and therefore
refuses to allow copyright in fonts. As a result, font piracy is
legal here -- you can buy "1000 fonts cheap" CDs. Those are generally
made by copying the character outlines. Not the actual outline
definitions typically -- but rather a re-tracing of the letter shape
as drawn. The result is that those cheap ripoffs are actually quite
visibly lower quality -- extraneous control points, sloppy outlines,
and of course no "kerning" or "hinting".
What China is in software and movies, the USA is in fonts...
paul
6935
days inactive
6937
days old
17 comments
8 participants
participants (8)
-
akb+lists.cctalk＠mirror.to -
cb＠mythtech.net -
cisin＠xenosoft.com -
gordonjcp＠gjcp.net -
innfoclassics＠gmail.com -
jfoust＠threedee.com -
pkoning＠equallogic.com -
vcf＠siconic.com