20 Jul
2005
20 Jul
'05
12:30 a.m.
Hi List,
I've been a collector (and user) of obsolete computer systems for many years. This
list looks like a great source of information. Anyhow...
Until our basement flooded a couple of weeks ago, I had:
IMSAI 8080 with NorthStar Disk, KSR33 Teletype and Lear-Siegler ADM3A Terminal
A very strange home-built S-100 system
Apple II plus with Pascal Language System
Intel intellec 800 and MDS230 development systems
Sun 3/160 Solaris (some version or other)
HP64000 development systems with HP7912 disk
HP9816 computer
IBM PC and XT, 286, 386... (yeah, who cares)
One thing I have learned form this experience is that computers do not, in general, swim
well. Anyhow, I now have a whole lot of partially useful computers, boards, documentation,
software etc.
The only things I care deeply about are the IMSAI ('cause I've raised him from a
pup) and the HP64000s (which I use as my logic analyzer and EPROM programmer -- among
other things).
The IMSAI box and the terminal are ok, but the disk drive (an SA400, I believe) and
(worse) the box of floppies didn't make it. The drive might be salvageable, but
I'm afraid the diskettes are toast. Does anyone out there have any 5-1/4 inch 10
sector (hard sectored) floppies? And a copy of the NorthStar DOS and BASIC that they'd
like to sell/trade/etc?
As for the HP64000s, the consoles are ok, but the disk drive drowned. From a quick search,
I'm not real optimistic about finding another HPIB disk drive and I'm not too
excited about plunging into this one to try and fix him (he was running when the waters
came and he smells very bad). Has anyone ever taught a PC (for example) with a GPIB card
to think it's a CS80 Drive?? Does anyone have a spare disk gathering dust? Failing
that, does anyone (besides me) still use these things? The consoles are probably too heavy
to ship, but I have lots of cards, software, manuals etc in working order if anyone needs
them.
As to the other stuff, some is good, some isn't but if anyone needs any parts, I might
be able to help out.
Pat Fitzpatrick
21 Jul
21 Jul
4:52 p.m.
Pat Fitzpatrick wrote:
As for the HP64000s, the consoles are ok, but the disk
drive drowned. From a quick search, I'm not real optimistic about finding another HPIB
disk drive and I'm not too excited about plunging into this one to try and fix him (he
was running when the waters came and he smells very bad). Has anyone ever taught a PC (for
example) with a GPIB card to think it's a CS80 Drive?? Does anyone have a spare disk
gathering dust? Failing that, does anyone (besides me) still use these things? The
consoles are probably too heavy to ship, but I have lots of cards, software, manuals etc
in working order if anyone needs them.
I started a project on Sourceforge (softcs80) to do that. I found the
specs on bitsavers (Thanks Al) and they don't look to terribly bad... If
only a PCI GPIB card would be a bit cheaper...
Kind regards,
Maurice
6:28 p.m.
I started a project on Sourceforge (softcs80) to do
that. I found the
specs on bitsavers (Thanks Al) and they don't look
to terribly bad... If
only a PCI GPIB card would be a bit cheaper...
Kind regards,
Maurice
I am working on the same issue. P'raps we should talk.
Dave
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11:34 p.m.
In message <42DFC4AA.3080904 at MyRealBox.com> you wrote:
I started a project on Sourceforge (softcs80) to do
that. I found the
specs on bitsavers (Thanks Al) and they don't look to terribly bad... If
only a PCI GPIB card would be a bit cheaper...
The Keithley Instruments and CEC boards can be had for not very much money
second-hand. I've got a CEC PCI-488 (aka PCI<=>488) that I picked up for $40,
including a GPIB cable. It has an NI-488 translation layer too, so most of
the ready-written code works on it.
Mine is basically a NEC GPIB chip, with a PLX PCI->ISA translator and some
NatSemi linedrivers. Works quite well, actually. Sure it doesn't have the
"turbo modes" the NI boards have, but I've never needed them anyway - none
of
my GPIB peripherals speak high-speed GPIB.
I'd be only too happy to do some testing and/or development on SoftCS80, but
I don't think I've got anything that'll talk to a CS80 (unless HP sneaked
CS80 support into the System software for the 1651B logic analyser).
Later.
--
Phil. | Acorn Risc PC600 Mk3, SA202, 64MB, 6GB,
philpem at philpem.me.uk | ViewFinder, 10BaseT Ethernet, 2-slice,
http://www.philpem.me.uk/ | 48xCD, ARCINv6c IDE, SCSI
... Where there's a will, there's an Inheritance Tax.
6:44 p.m.
Pat Fitzpatrick Wrote:
<snip>
IMSAI 8080 with NorthStar Disk, KSR33 Teletype and Lear-Siegler
ADM3A Terminal
<snip>
The IMSAI box and the terminal are ok, but the disk
drive (an
SA400, I believe) and (worse) the box of floppies didn't make it.
The drive might be salvageable, but I'm afraid the diskettes are
toast. Does anyone out there have any 5-1/4 inch 10 sector (hard
sectored) floppies? And a copy of the NorthStar DOS and BASIC
that they'd like to sell/trade/etc?
Check out Dave Dunfield's site:
http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/img/index.htm
If you have a monitor in ROM or can toggle a short one into
memory, then you can reproduce disks from his web site. It
works pretty well, I've just done it myself to get N* DOS and
Lifeboat CP/M for my N*.
As for a drive, I think any good 360K floppy drive will work. The
one's (with N* badges) in my N* are Tandons just like in the IBM PC.
Bill
7:20 p.m.
Hi List,
I've been a collector (and user) of obsolete computer systems for many
years. This list looks like a great source of information. Anyhow...
Until our basement flooded a couple of weeks ago, I had:
IMSAI 8080 with NorthStar Disk, KSR33 Teletype and Lear-Siegler ADM3A Terminal
A very strange home-built S-100 system
Apple II plus with Pascal Language System
Intel intellec 800 and MDS230 development systems
Sun 3/160 Solaris (some version or other)
HP64000 development systems with HP7912 disk
HP9816 computer
IBM PC and XT, 286, 386... (yeah, who cares)
One thing I have learned form this experience is that computers do
not, in general, swim well. Anyhow, I now have a whole lot of partially
Actually, I think you may be pleasantly suprised. Water does little
damage to computer hardware if it's not powered up at the time. If this
happened to me, I'd take things apart (remove all pluggable chips too),
wash the parts with distilled water, then with propan-2-ol. I would think
most electronic stuff would be OK.
Mechanical stuff would need a full strip-down, clean and re-lubrication
job, I think. But having rescued a DEC RK07 demountable hard disk that
was flooped (when I got it, water was still sloshing around in the
double-skinned part of the chassis that's used an a air duct), I think
anything is possible. I bought that RK07 for things like the plastic
front panel, switch buttons, etc, and hoped that perhaps some of the PCBs
would have still-good parts on them. In the end, the whole thing was
fine.
I would not fancy repairing a winchester if the HDA had been flooded, though.
useful computers, boards, documentation, software etc.
The IMSAI box and the terminal are ok, but the disk
drive (an SA400, I
believe) and (worse) the box of floppies didn't make it. The drive might
be salvageable, but I'm afraid the diskettes are toast. Does anyone out
Have you tried carefully tearing open the seal on one side of the disk
jacket and sliding the disk itself out. Then clean that with propan-2-ol
and put it into a new jacket with one side slit open. You may find
they're fine.
As for the HP64000s, the consoles are ok, but the disk
drive drowned.
From a quick search, I'm not real optimistic about finding another HPIB
disk drive and I'm not too excited about plunging into this one to try
and fix him (he was running when the waters came and he smells very
What model of disk drive is it? I have some _real_ service data on
certain HP drives, and we might at least be able to see if the PSU is OK,
if it's not, if it's still repairable, and if the controller is OK.
-tony
10 p.m.
New subject: Flood damage (was Re: New to list -- Many Issues -- Many Parts Available.)
On 7/21/05, Tony Duell <ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk> wrote:
Actually, I think you may be pleasantly suprised.
Water does little
damage to computer hardware if it's not powered up at the time.
_Clean_ water does little damage to unpowered systems.
I lost a Diablo 30 drive a number of years ago when it was being
stored in the basement of my mother's shop along with a bunch of
equipment in active use (11/23, LA180, RL01, RL02...) when the sewer
line from the building to the alley was plugged (by flushed feminine
products from the beauty salon next door) and first rainwater, then
raw sewage backed up into the basement to a depth of about a foot.
It took the building owner days to get things fixed and drained,
during which time all the books on the bottom bookshelves had expanded
and burst the shelves, lower boxes glued themselves to the floor, and
internal parts of diablo drive had begun to rust. I did rescue the
overwhelming majority of things from that basement - well over 90%.
The insides of the diablo, though, were pretty nasty. Fortunately,
the lower 2' of the H960 was empty, not even a power sequencer box to
short out. None of the PDP-11 or PDP-8 stuff got so much as damp
(lost a full box of greenbar paper, though).
I'm not saying don't try to clean and recover stuff, but after a
seeing a couple of comments about how safe water is, I wanted to
remind people that flood water is rarely just water... it usually
brings contaminants in with it, but if you are lucky, it's only a
light organic residue. It's probably a lot more work than you might
imagine, if you haven't done it already.
As for how to proceed, I find Tony's comments entirely appropriate -
isopropanol (as it's called in the US) is quite useful as a solvent
and drying agent (because alcohol and water are soluable in each
other, and the alcohol is more volatile) - get the good stuff (97%?
98%?), not 70% "rubbing alcohol", unless you are going to follow up
70% isopropanol with 98% propanol. I'd be more worried about stuff
with relays than stuff with ICs, but IC pins can and will rust, and
water does get down in sockets - don't forget to clean those.
Good luck with cleanup.
-ethan
8:18 p.m.
IIRC, water will not normally damage floppy disks. What you may have to do
is clean them very carefully. You can cut open the plastic envelope and
remove the disk. Rinse the mud off the disk, use soap and water if
necessary, and keep your fingers off the medium. Let air dry. Open a spare
disk envelope and replace the disk with the one you are trying to salvage.
Put it in a drive and give it a go.
Water by itself will not normally damage electronic circuits. Mud may be
another thing. If the water is not removed promptly then you can get rusting
on mechanical parts. If power is applied while water is present all bets are
off. I have heard tell of vendors who would wash electronic equipment in a
dishwasher prior to refurbishing it. The teletype is probably a different
kettle of fish.
Gil
-----Original Message-----
From: cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org
[mailto:cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Pat Fitzpatrick
Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2005 6:31 PM
To: 'cctech at classiccmp.org'
Subject: New to list -- Many Issues -- Many Parts Available.
Hi List,
I've been a collector (and user) of obsolete computer systems
for many years. This list looks like a great source of
information. Anyhow...
Until our basement flooded a couple of weeks ago, I had:
...
The IMSAI box and the terminal are ok, but the disk
drive (an
SA400, I believe) and (worse) the box of floppies didn't make
it. The drive might be salvageable, but I'm afraid the
diskettes are toast. Does anyone out there have any 5-1/4
inch 10 sector (hard sectored) floppies? And a copy of the
NorthStar DOS and BASIC that they'd like to sell/trade/etc?
...
As to the other stuff, some is good, some isn't
but if anyone
needs any parts, I might be able to help out.
Pat Fitzpatrick
22 Jul
22 Jul
4:38 p.m.
Pat Fitzpatrick wrote:
As for the HP64000s, the consoles are ok, but the disk
drive drowned.
From a quick search, I'm not real optimistic about finding another
HPIB disk drive and I'm not too excited about plunging into this one
to try and fix him (he was running when the waters came and he smells
very bad). Has anyone ever taught a PC (for example) with a GPIB card
to think it's a CS80 Drive?? Does anyone have a spare disk gathering
dust? Failing that, does anyone (besides me) still use these things?
The consoles are probably too heavy to ship, but I have lots of cards,
software, manuals etc in working order if anyone needs them.
I started a project on Sourceforge (softcs80) to do that. I found the
specs on bitsavers (Thanks Al) and they don't look to terribly bad... If
only a PCI GPIB card would be a bit cheaper...
Kind regards,
Maurice
7118
days inactive
7121
days old
8 comments
8 participants
participants (8)
-
ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
csmuseum＠cse.uta.edu -
david_comley＠yahoo.com -
ethan.dicks＠gmail.com -
MauriceS＠MyRealBox.com -
Pat_Fitzpatrick＠pmc-sierra.com -
philpem＠dsl.pipex.com -
wh.sudbrink＠verizon.net