20 Aug
2008
20 Aug
'08
9:56 p.m.
-----Original Message-----
From: Fred Cisin cisin at xenosoft.com
Sent 8/20/2008 9:48:12 PM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts cctalk at classiccmp.org
Subject: UI (Was: OT: Microsoft crazy academic deal>
On Wed, 20 Aug 2008, David Griffith wrote:
Around that time just to prove that "Bob" was a piece of junk, someone
created "Bubba". As I recall, it seemed to work better than the Microsoft
product. I think this is it:
http://www.crummy.com/warren/files/picks/bubba.zip
Thank you for the topic drift!
Is that the same one as:
http://techrepublic.com.com/5208-13624-0.html?forumID=102&threadID=2692…
I dunno - calling Bob a UI is kinda' insulting to UI's - that was just a POS.
Does anyone actually KNOW of anyone who bought it?
Tony
20 Aug
20 Aug
10:07 p.m.
On Thu, 21 Aug 2008, tonym wrote:
I dunno - calling Bob a UI is kinda' insulting to
UI's - that was just a POS.
Does anyone actually KNOW of anyone who bought it?
Yeah.
College administrators!
"Those who can, do; Those who can't, teach; Those who can't teach,
administrate" - H.L. Mencken
I used it in an operating systems class to show how bad it was possible to
get.
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin at xenosoft.com
10:46 p.m.
New subject: UI (Was: OT: Microsoft crazy academic deal
Define "mint", please?
If I were smart back then, I would have purchased a bunch of them,
stored them properly so the boxes do not wear/fade/mold/abrade, never
broken the seals - then I could call them mint.
But I did not do this.
--
Will
21 Aug
21 Aug
1:07 a.m.
New subject: UI (Was: OT: Microsoft crazy academic deal
On Wed, 20 Aug 2008, William Donzelli wrote:
I have a mint copy of "Screen Grazers" that I picked up a couple years
after the company that made it fizzled out. For whatever reason, I didn't
think to save one from when I semi-worked there. I found it in the
bargain bin at a local junior college bookstore.
--
David Griffith
dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu
A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail?
Define
"mint", please?
If I were smart back then, I would have purchased a bunch of them,
stored them properly so the boxes do not wear/fade/mold/abrade, never
broken the seals - then I could call them mint.
But I did not do this. 
2:08 a.m.
New subject: UI (Was: OT: Microsoft crazy academic deal
Doc Shipley wrote:
William Donzelli wrote:
Define "mint", please?
Still shrinkwrapped.
It may seem amazing to this list, but there is a group of people for
whom collecting software is a hobby. While it's mostly limited to game
titles, some non-game packages are valued more if they're of historical
value (ie. Windows 1.0 or Microsoft Word 1 bundled with the microsoft
mouse, etc., still shrinked).
--
Jim Leonard (trixter at oldskool.org) http://www.oldskool.org/
Help our electronic games project: http://www.mobygames.com/
Or check out some trippy MindCandy at http://www.mindcandydvd.com/
A child borne of the home computer wars: http://trixter.wordpress.com/
Yeah.
College administrators!
Smart people bought Bob.
Consider how cheap it was when it was getting cleared off the shelves,
and now how much money mint copies go for.
2:13 a.m.
New subject: UI (Was: OT: Microsoft crazy academic deal
On Thu, 21 Aug 2008, Jim Leonard wrote:
Doc Shipley wrote:
It's not amazing to me. I've sold a fair number of still-shrinked CP/M
packages.
--
David Griffith
dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu
A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail?
William Donzelli wrote:
Define "mint", please?
Still shrinkwrapped.
It may seem amazing to this list, but there is a group of people for
whom collecting software is a hobby. While it's mostly limited to game
titles, some non-game packages are valued more if they're of historical
value (ie. Windows 1.0 or Microsoft Word 1 bundled with the microsoft
mouse, etc., still shrinked). Yeah.
College administrators!
Smart people bought Bob.
Consider how cheap it was when it was getting cleared off the shelves,
and now how much money mint copies go for. 
9:34 a.m.
New subject: UI (Was: OT: Microsoft crazy academic deal
David Griffith wrote:
OK, I really don't get the shrinkwrapping thing - it seems like having some
ancient Egyptian artifact shut away in a wooden crate so that nobody can ever
see it...
(plus, if these people never open the shrinkwrapping, how do they authenticate
that the contents - and the shrinkwrapping itself - are original? Seems way
too open to scamming to me)
cheers
Jules
It may seem
amazing to this list, but there is a group of people for
whom collecting software is a hobby. While it's mostly limited to game
titles, some non-game packages are valued more if they're of historical
value (ie. Windows 1.0 or Microsoft Word 1 bundled with the microsoft
mouse, etc., still shrinked).
It's not amazing to me. I've sold a fair number of still-shrinked CP/M
packages.
9:52 a.m.
New subject: UI (Was: OT: Microsoft crazy academic deal
OK, I really don't get the shrinkwrapping thing -
it seems like having some
ancient Egyptian artifact shut away in a wooden crate so that nobody can
ever see it...
I do not either, but many do.
(plus, if these people never open the shrinkwrapping,
how do they
authenticate that the contents - and the shrinkwrapping itself - are
original? Seems way too open to scamming to me)
No, not scamming.
Why does everyone on this list think that everyone else is trying to
scam them anyway? Do we not trust anyone that is not a blood relative
anymore?
But authenticating the contents, you are not far from the mark. Things
should be opened from their sealed packages in order to verify that
there is no deterioration going on that can not be seen. This is
pretty standard museum practice. A good example is opening up the
seals of some bit of hardware - perhaps a new-in-box Lisa - to make
sure the batteries are not leaking - which in the case of a new-in-box
Lisa, they very likely are.
--
Will
10:07 a.m.
New subject: UI (Was: OT: Microsoft crazy academic deal
William Donzelli wrote:
Why does everyone on this list think that everyone
else is trying to
scam them anyway? Do we not trust anyone that is not a blood relative
anymore?
Heh. To be honest, I'd trust people on this list, as I do other lists that I'm
on. I'd find it hard to trust someone on ebay (I've never actually bought
anything via ebay before). Maybe it just feels more like a community here,
which makes it seem like someone has more to lose if they try to screw me
over. That's probably rather stupid ;)
But authenticating the contents, you are not far from
the mark. Things
should be opened from their sealed packages in order to verify that
there is no deterioration going on that can not be seen. This is
pretty standard museum practice. A good example is opening up the
seals of some bit of hardware - perhaps a new-in-box Lisa - to make
sure the batteries are not leaking - which in the case of a new-in-box
Lisa, they very likely are.
For sure. The first thing I do with hardware is strip it down - not only to
check for potential problems, but also to do some form of cleaning.
Re. shrinkwrapping though, it still seems open to scamming - people willing to
spend extra money for a shrinkwrapped vintage product are *probably* going to
leave that product shrinkwrapped - a seller could easily shrinkwrap something
incomplete and/or internally damaged and in the few cases where they got
caught out, just claim that it must have been down to natural decay, a
production error, or whatever.
I think I only ever sold one rare shrinkwrapped software product which was
worth significant money - after clearing it with the buyer, I opened it all to
inventory contents and check condition, which seemed like a good idea to both
of us.
cheers
Jules
11:23 a.m.
New subject: UI (Was: OT: Microsoft crazy academic deal
Heh. To be honest, I'd trust people on this list,
as I do other lists that
I'm on. I'd find it hard to trust someone on ebay (I've never actually
bought anything via ebay before). Maybe it just feels more like a community
here, which makes it seem like someone has more to lose if they try to screw
me over. That's probably rather stupid ;)
So basically you are basing your fears of online scammers on hearsay
and rumors, ignoring the established feedback system most sites have
in place, as well as the elaborate protection schemes that greatly
bias towards buyers over sellers - and trusting email lists where
pretty much can hide behind a keyboard.
Re. shrinkwrapping though, it still seems open to
scamming - people willing
to spend extra money for a shrinkwrapped vintage product are *probably*
going to leave that product shrinkwrapped - a seller could easily shrinkwrap
something incomplete and/or internally damaged and in the few cases where
they got caught out, just claim that it must have been down to natural
decay, a production error, or whatever.
Everything is open to scamming. There are even scammers on this list -
they are among us. At least a couple of regulars on this list have
scammed people in the past, and others have plain old poor ethics when
it comes to the art of the deal.
--
Will
2:59 p.m.
New subject: UI (Was: OT: Microsoft crazy academic deal
On Thu, 21 Aug 2008, Jules Richardson wrote:
David Griffith wrote:
OK, I really don't get the shrinkwrapping thing - it seems like having some
ancient Egyptian artifact shut away in a wooden crate so that nobody can ever
see it...
(plus, if these people never open the shrinkwrapping, how do they authenticate
that the contents - and the shrinkwrapping itself - are original? Seems way
too open to scamming to me)
I figure that if I scam someone, I have a lot to lose in the classic
computer community.
--
David Griffith
dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu
A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail?
It may
seem amazing to this list, but there is a group of people for
whom collecting software is a hobby. While it's mostly limited to game
titles, some non-game packages are valued more if they're of historical
value (ie. Windows 1.0 or Microsoft Word 1 bundled with the microsoft
mouse, etc., still shrinked).
It's not amazing to me. I've sold a fair number of still-shrinked CP/M
packages.
3:51 p.m.
New subject: UI (Was: OT: Microsoft crazy academic deal
Jules Richardson wrote:
(plus, if these people never open the shrinkwrapping,
how do they
authenticate that the contents - and the shrinkwrapping itself - are
original? Seems way too open to scamming to me)
We have ways of determining if the shrinkwrap is original or not. Most
re-shrinks have tell-tale signs that it was done with a typical
commercial shrinkwrap machine (and a few of us, myself included, have
had the pleasure of working for a software place and have a lot of
experience reshrinking stuff so we know what to look for). Usually, if
there is a nearly perfect circular hole in the wrap, that is *not* a
reshrink. If there are crusty and/or burnt edges, that *is* a reshrink.
Stuff like that.
I run a software collector's mailing list over at
http://list.oldskool.org/listinfo/swcollect if you're curious to join
and lurk/read the archives. We also defined a grading scale for our
hobby, which you can read about at
http://www.mobygames.com/info/MobyScale so we're as serious as
reasonably possible about collecting software as a hobby :-)
BTW, I'm with you -- I try to collect two shrinked copies of things; one
that I can open/play/archive and the other to keep sealed as a
collectible (although software does not need to be *sealed* to be a true
collectible, like the original Akalabeth).
--
Jim Leonard (trixter at oldskool.org) http://www.oldskool.org/
Help our electronic games project: http://www.mobygames.com/
Or check out some trippy MindCandy at http://www.mindcandydvd.com/
A child borne of the home computer wars: http://trixter.wordpress.com/
2:32 a.m.
New subject: UI (Was: OT: Microsoft crazy academic deal
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Leonard" <trixter at oldskool.org>
To: <General at mail.mobygames.com>; "Discussion at mail.mobygames.com
:On-Topic
and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2008 2:08 AM
Subject: Re: UI (Was: OT: Microsoft crazy academic deal
It may seem amazing to this list, but there is a group of people for whom
collecting software is a hobby. While it's mostly limited to game titles,
some non-game packages are valued more if they're of historical value (ie.
Windows 1.0 or Microsoft Word 1 bundled with the microsoft mouse, etc.,
still shrinked).
--
Jim Leonard (trixter at oldskool.org) http://www.oldskool.org/
Help our electronic games project: http://www.mobygames.com/
Or check out some trippy MindCandy at http://www.mindcandydvd.com/
A child borne of the home computer wars: http://trixter.wordpress.com/
I collect old Apps for PC/mac from the 80's and 90's. What is the point of
having machines without some software? I miss having complete PRINTED
manuals written by professionals who know English better then I do. I do
tend to rip off the shrinkwrap when I get items, they are for use anyway not
to look at. A few years ago I went on a quest to have legit copies of
everything I use on my old macs, still hunting some things down but I have
most of the apps and utils that I mess around with.
I guess I like boxed apps for the same reason I like boxed games, manuals
and misc inserts!
TZ
3:55 p.m.
New subject: Older software value Was: (Re: UI (Was: OT: Microsoft crazy academic deal
Teo Zenios wrote:
I guess I like boxed apps for the same reason I like boxed games,
manuals and misc inserts!
Amen. Because old games needed a lot of imagination and/or background
to fully immerse the player, they came with a lot of decent material
(clues, very nice (sometimes bound!) manual, etc.). Even non-fiction
games, like Sierra Boxing, came with an abridged history of boxing and
strategies.
I bought Valve's excellent Orange Box the other day; while the bundled
games are truly some of the best I've played, I was extremely
disappointed to open the box and find a single DVD-ROM and a single
sheet of paper.
--
Jim Leonard (trixter at oldskool.org) http://www.oldskool.org/
Help our electronic games project: http://www.mobygames.com/
Or check out some trippy MindCandy at http://www.mindcandydvd.com/
A child borne of the home computer wars: http://trixter.wordpress.com/
4:25 p.m.
New subject: Older software value Was: (Re: UI (Was: OT: Microsoft crazy academic deal
On Thu, Aug 21, 2008 at 2:55 PM, Jim Leonard <trixter at oldskool.org> wrote:
Amen. Because old games needed a lot of imagination
and/or background to
fully immerse the player, they came with a lot of decent material (clues,
very nice (sometimes bound!) manual, etc.). Even non-fiction games, like
Sierra Boxing, came with an abridged history of boxing and strategies.
I really miss that about the old games. My recent CBM haul brought
copies of Ultima, Bard's Tale, Wizardry, etc., along with some
adventure games I'd never heard of, all of which had cool manuals with
early D&D-style graphics, decoder wheels, spell books, and trinkets.
I probably already have disks for most of these games, and I'm
unlikely to have time to play them through, but the boxes look great
on the shelf.
-j [who has the Ultima V cloth map hung up in the cube at work]
5881
days inactive
5881
days old
16 comments
9 participants
participants (9)
-
cisin＠xenosoft.com -
dgriffi＠cs.csubak.edu -
doc＠mdrconsult.com -
jules.richardson99＠gmail.com -
silent700＠gmail.com -
teoz＠neo.rr.com -
tonym＠compusource.net -
trixter＠oldskool.org -
wdonzelli＠gmail.com