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On Sat, 6 Oct 2012, Chuck Guzis wrote: That offers no ESD protection whatsoever. Aluminum foil is a great conductor of static electricity and an ESD discharge to the foil will go straight to the pins of the component you've stuck into it. Just because it is pink doesn't make it low-ESD. Pink foam, either LDPE (low density polyethylene plastic, the most common form of the "pink stuff" you find today) or polystyrene (styrofoam) offers no static protection on its own. The pink stuff that is explicitly used for ESD sensitive parts is simply engineered and treated with a chemical so that it will create little or no static. It is intended to be used /inside/ an ESD bag/box or around ESD sensitive parts. Pink insulation panels are not treated and are not low-ESD. The pink bags are exactly the same way, they aren't static dissipative and don't protect sensitive electronics, but we already had that discussion thread awhile back.

I think "no...whatsoever" is an exaggeration, though it certainly isn't as good as proper antistatic foam. That's why it helps. The danger is not high voltage relative to some arbitrary ground; the danger is high voltage between elements of the chip, mostly meaning between pins. That means that a low-impedance path joining all pins will reduce the risk of static damage. Not eliminate it, both because the path is not perfect - it's got nonzero impedance at best and thus can develop voltage between pins - and because it's possible, especially after longer-term storage, for the aluminum foil to develop holes large enough to break contact with the pins. But then, those are true of conductive foam, too; indeed, because its resistance is much higher, it is less protective against a static jolt delivered directly to a chip pin. (What it _is_ much more protective against is a jolt delivered to the foam.) Some of them are. I've seen pink plastic bags that were conductive to antistatic levels - they simply would not hold a charge no matter how hard I tried and how well something less conductive, like a shopping bag or a more ordinary plastic bag, would hold a charge under similar circumstances. I do, of course, agree that it's not wise to count on a bag to be antistatic just because it's pink. :-) /~\ The ASCII Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse at rodents-montreal.org / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B

That was my similar confusion with esd bags though. At first I thought they weren't conductive but later found they were which just makes me think itd be similar to foil discharge. Are tubes not good or is it that most folks don't have plastic ic tubes? (I fall into the latter category but I don't have any stock of ics to protect either). -----Original Message----- From: Tothwolf <tothwolf at concentric.net> Sender: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.orgDate: Sun, 7 Oct 2012 02:10:00 To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts<cctalk at classiccmp.org> Reply-To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Subject: Re: Where to buy conductive foam in the US ? On Sun, 7 Oct 2012, Mouse wrote: Not /just/ mostly between the pins though. A common ESD event likely to do damage to electronic components is one where the potential of the material /inside/ the chip itself is at a different potential to other objects in the environment outside of the chip. It might or might not help to have multiple pins at the same potential, and the foil may just give the discharge a larger pathway. The video that was linked to in the last discussion illustrates this type of discharge event perfectly. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imdtXcnywb8 This is also why conductive foam isn't (or rather shouldn't be) used by itself and the foam and parts should really still be placed inside a static _shielding_ (metalized mylar) ESD bag. The resistance of conductive foam (typically 500k ohm to several megohms or more) also not only helps prevent damage from a discharge to the foam, but also helps prevent a charge from ever building up because the conductive properties allow a potential to /slowly/ self discharge through the larger surface of the conductive foam. Styrofoam or the pink LDPE foam are not conductive at all so offer no way to slowly bleed off any potential charge. Aluminum foil on the other hand, will allow a potential to rapidly self-discharge, aka an ESD discharge event, which is what we want to avoid. Those old static dissipative carbon black bags on the other hand tended to be very conductive (as low as a few kilohms or even less) which is why the black bags are not commonly used (or manufactured) today and have largely been replaced in industry by metalized mylar static /shielding/ bags. The old myth that storing components or pc boards in foil will protect them has been disproven again and again yet it still comes up from time to time.

On 10/08/2012 10:21 AM, barythrin at gmail.com wrote: Varying degrees of conductivity.. It's not like they're tough to find, or expensive. There's really no excuse for not storing ICs properly. Some people (not directed at you) are just loathe to spend even a couple of dollars to do something the right way, and somehow they still feel justified complaining about (say) blown ICs. I just don't get it. -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA