8 Jan
2002
8 Jan
'02
2:28 p.m.
Do I gather from previous discussions that it's a
problem reading an Apple II floppy disk on a PC?
I'm about to get rid of my last Apple II clone (No,
Ernest, I haven't forgotten you) but there are some
Basic programs on Apple diskettes that I might want to
port to GW-Basic some day. Trouble is, the Apple
has no parallel or serial cards and I don't feel like
copying them off the screen by hand.
I think with a little software I could transfer it
to one of my PETs via the cassette port, and from there
it would be trivial to get to a PC, but I'm hoping
there's an easier way.
I have a CompatiCard I and Uniform, and I still have
the T300 that no one wanted which can do 96TPI 640K
MS-DOS diskettes as well as the usual MS-DOS 5.25
formats, if that's of any use.
Any ideas?
mike
8 Jan
8 Jan
2:43 p.m.
Do I gather from previous discussions that it's a
problem reading an Apple II floppy disk on a PC?
I'm about to get rid of my last Apple II clone (No,
Ernest, I haven't forgotten you) but there are some
Basic programs on Apple diskettes that I might want to
port to GW-Basic some day. Trouble is, the Apple
has no parallel or serial cards and I don't feel like
copying them off the screen by hand.
I think with a little software I could transfer it
to one of my PETs via the cassette port, and from there
it would be trivial to get to a PC, but I'm hoping
there's an easier way.
I have a CompatiCard I and Uniform, and I still have
the T300 that no one wanted which can do 96TPI 640K
MS-DOS diskettes as well as the usual MS-DOS 5.25
formats, if that's of any use.
Any ideas?
Buy a super serial card on ebay and use it to transfer the files.
-Lawrence LeMay
2:47 p.m.
On Tue, 8 Jan 2002, M H Stein wrote:
Do I gather from previous discussions that it's a
problem reading an Apple II floppy disk on a PC?
No PROBLEM, just impossible.
There have been a few special boards that could be installed into a PC to
do it. The Compaticard is NOT one of them. "Match Point" might be, as is
Apple Turnover, and it's even theoretically possible to do it with the
CopyII Option board (if you are willing to write a program comparable to
the Apple OS file system. Same with Catweasel - theoretical possibility,
but significant software needed but not available.
I think with a little software I could transfer it
to one of my PETs via the cassette port, and from there
it would be trivial to get to a PC, but I'm hoping
there's an easier way.
Really? The PC can't do PET disks, either. But you MIGHT be able to
interface one of the aftermarket IEEE488 drives to the Pet with some
trivial hardware, and then interface it to the PC, and just write a file
system for it.
But, if you have a serial port on the Pet, then it'll be easy.
Or maybe you could program the cassette port of a 5150?
If you have an Amiga, and are willing to buy or write significant
software, it can (in theory) do both Apple and PC.
I have a CompatiCard I and Uniform, and I still have
Those will be nice for doing MFM diskettes. No help at all for GCR
(Apple and Commodore).
the T300 that no one wanted which can do 96TPI 640K
MS-DOS diskettes as well as the usual MS-DOS 5.25
formats, if that's of any use.
If you DO figure out a use for it, let me know. Somewhere around here are
a few of them. I patched PC-Write to run on it, but never came up with
anything else to do with it. Eventually I gave one to Toshiba's MRI
division, because they couldn't get one throught their main corporation.
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin(a)xenosoft.com
9 Jan
9 Jan
6:58 a.m.
--- "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" <cisin(a)xenosoft.com> wrote:
An XE1541 cable is an easy enough item to build. If you have a 4040
or 2031 drive on your PET, you could hook a 1541 to the PC, the IEEE
drive to the PET and sneaker-net stuff over.
Marko Makela has a cool device that's about to hit the world - a cassette
port dongle for all CBM machines that speaks to a "modern" machine over
serial - you save to "cassette" from your PET, B500, C64, VIC-20, whatever,
and run a virtual server on a serial line on a modern machine to scoop
up the data. No funny software required on the CBM side. He has a
prototype and pictures, but it's not quite available yet.
I know there have been some projects to emulate an IEEE port from a PeeCee
parallel port - enough to drive a 4040 floppy unit. If the software were
there, it'd be easy enough to turn the PeeCee into a virtual disk drive.
I think you could find the stuff already done. I don't think you'd have
to roll your own code to do this.
My X1541 cable also has a 6-pin C= cassette port on it. I have read
many PET tapes directly from DOS with a real C2N tape recorder. It's
not as reliable as floppies (especially if there's a head alignment
problem), but it does work. Slow as molasses in January, though.
Personally, the 170K floppy shuffle is the easiest way with the most
common hardware. It does require that you have a couple of Commodore
devices, but they aren't uncommon. Serial ports on PETs *are* (but I
have a couple of IEEE<->RS-232 boxes from "TNW" and one ROM socket
ACIA board. Still doesn't make them "common" though).
-ethan
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I think with a
little software I could transfer it
to one of my PETs via the cassette port, and from there
it would be trivial to get to a PC...
Really? The PC can't do PET disks, either. But you MIGHT be able to
interface one of the aftermarket IEEE488 drives to the Pet with some
trivial hardware, and then interface it to the PC, and just write a file
system for it. 
7:47 a.m.
On Wed, 9 Jan 2002, Ethan Dicks wrote:
My X1541 cable also has a 6-pin C= cassette port on
it. I have read
many PET tapes directly from DOS with a real C2N tape recorder. It's
not as reliable as floppies (especially if there's a head alignment
problem), but it does work. Slow as molasses in January, though.
How is the cassette data read by the PC? Does it decode the audio?
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
* Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *
9:21 a.m.
New subject: Reading PET tapes (was Re: Apple disk -> MSDOS)
--- Sellam Ismail <foo(a)siconic.com> wrote:
On Wed, 9 Jan 2002, Ethan Dicks wrote:
Not audio (though there is an app that will decode .WAV files of PET
tapes). Someone wrote a DOS app that reads the parallel port bits
and converts them into a .T64 file directly. For alignment/phase,
there's a graphical mode that scrolls the data up the screen along
with "guard bands" that show where the app thinks a 0 and a 1 are.
You use the cursor keys to align the data from the tape drive and
the guard bands for optimal data parsing. Once you have an offset
My X1541 cable also has a 6-pin C= cassette port
on it. I have read
many PET tapes directly from DOS with a real C2N tape recorder.
How is the cassette data read by the PC? Does it decode the audio? from this process, you can use it as a command-line
parameter for
bulk reading.
It works well enough, but I really wish the source were available (it
never seems to be for DOS programs, unlike Unix and Amiga software). I
have a small pile of PET Rabbit-format tapes that I want to extract from.
My BASIC 2.0 PET needs repair (keyboard problems), so I can't just read
the data and save it to disk. I have plenty of 8032s, but only one 2001
(got the 80-col PETs from university surplus for $10 a few years ago; we
got the 40-col, 32K PET when I was grade-school for $1175).
-ethan
-ethan
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10 Jan
10 Jan
3:40 a.m.
New subject: Reading PET tapes (was Re: Apple disk -> MSDOS)
On Wed, 9 Jan 2002, Ethan Dicks wrote:
Not audio (though there is an app that will decode
.WAV files of PET
tapes). Someone wrote a DOS app that reads the parallel port bits and
converts them into a .T64 file directly. For alignment/phase, there's
a graphical mode that scrolls the data up the screen along with "guard
bands" that show where the app thinks a 0 and a 1 are. You use the
cursor keys to align the data from the tape drive and the guard bands
for optimal data parsing. Once you have an offset from this process,
you can use it as a command-line parameter for bulk reading.
COOL! Where can I get this app?
It works well enough, but I really wish the source
were available (it
never seems to be for DOS programs, unlike Unix and Amiga software).
Is the author listed in the program? Have you tried contacting them?
I have a small pile of PET Rabbit-format tapes that I
want to extract
from. My BASIC 2.0 PET needs repair (keyboard problems), so I can't
just read the data and save it to disk. I have plenty of 8032s, but
only one 2001 (got the 80-col PETs from university surplus for $10 a
few years ago; we got the 40-col, 32K PET when I was grade-school for
$1175).
I have tons of software on tape for the PET and other platforms and will
want to digitize all the images at some point.
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
* Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *
5:21 a.m.
New subject: Reading PET tapes (was Re: Apple disk -> MSDOS)
I have tons of software on tape for the PET and other platforms and will
want to digitize all the images at some point.
Ok then... Do you have "Phuzzy and Wuzzy go to the Moon"? It was a short
"movie" for the PET.
Bryan
5:29 a.m.
New subject: Reading PET tapes (was Re: Apple disk -> MSDOS)
--- Bryan Pope <bpope(a)wordstock.com> wrote:
I have tons of software on tape for the PET...
Ok then... Do you have "Phuzzy and Wuzzy go to the Moon"? It was a short
"movie" for the PET.
I remember seeing "movies" on Cursor! magazine, but I don't recognize
that title.
-ethan
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6:51 a.m.
New subject: Reading PET tapes (was Re: Apple disk -> MSDOS)
On Thu, 10 Jan 2002, Bryan Pope wrote:
Beats me. Maybe. I don't know :) If I run into it I'll let you know.
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
* Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *
I have tons of
software on tape for the PET and other platforms and will
want to digitize all the images at some point.
Ok then... Do you have "Phuzzy and Wuzzy go to the Moon"? It was a
short "movie" for the PET. 
8 Jan
8 Jan
3:23 p.m.
On Tue, 8 Jan 2002, M H Stein wrote:
Do I gather from previous discussions that it's a
problem reading an Apple II floppy disk on a PC?
Well, it is not really a problem. But absent additional
hard/software, it is an impossibility.
The Microsolutions MatchPoint card in conjunction with a
specific version of UniForm will permit read/write of the
Apple II format disks. That is about the only combination
that immediately occurs that permits this.
- don
I'm about to get rid of my last Apple II clone
(No,
Ernest, I haven't forgotten you) but there are some
Basic programs on Apple diskettes that I might want to
port to GW-Basic some day. Trouble is, the Apple
has no parallel or serial cards and I don't feel like
copying them off the screen by hand.
I think with a little software I could transfer it
to one of my PETs via the cassette port, and from there
it would be trivial to get to a PC, but I'm hoping
there's an easier way.
I have a CompatiCard I and Uniform, and I still have
the T300 that no one wanted which can do 96TPI 640K
MS-DOS diskettes as well as the usual MS-DOS 5.25
formats, if that's of any use.
Any ideas?
mike
9:03 p.m.
On Tue, 8 Jan 2002, Don Maslin wrote:
The Microsolutions MatchPoint card in conjunction with
a specific
version of UniForm will permit read/write of the Apple II format
disks. That is about the only combination that immediately occurs
that permits this.
Are these still available somewhere? I just found another Copy II Option
board today but I guess, according to Fred, I can't actually copy files
FROM an Apple disk to the PC. Does it at least allow
sector access on the
Apple ][ floppy?
What about the (Applied Engineering) PC Transporter? It's an Apple ][
card that allows you to connect up a PC drive to your Apple and transfer
files. I think I have one somewhere. I also have a Rana PC<->Apple
gateway box but I don't know if it works like the PC Transporter. I guess
I should play with it someday and see what it does.
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
* Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *
9 Jan
9 Jan
3:42 a.m.
On Tue, 8 Jan 2002, Don Maslin wrote:
> The Microsolutions MatchPoint card in conjunction with a specific
> version of UniForm will permit read/write of the Apple II format
> disks. That is about the only combination that immediately occurs
> that permits this.
Turnover (previously Apple Turnover) from Vertex was
another earlier
version of the same thing.
On Wed, 9 Jan 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote:
Are these still available somewhere?
The Matchpoint is rare. I see them occasionally, but not very
often. Actually, I saw one at VCF a few years ago, but when I went back
to get it, somebody else had already bought it.
I just found another Copy II Option
board today but I guess, according to Fred, I can't actually copy files
FROM an Apple disk to the PC. Does it at least allow sector access on the
Apple ][ floppy?
Nope. It does RAW track read. You would then have to parse the track
data to recreate bytes and sector boundaries. Not completely trivial, but
quite feasible.
What about the (Applied Engineering) PC Transporter?
It's an Apple ][
card that allows you to connect up a PC drive to your Apple and transfer
files. I think I have one somewhere. I also have a Rana PC<->Apple
gateway box but I don't know if it works like the PC Transporter. I guess
I should play with it someday and see what it does.
There were several after-market devices for the Apple to do it. One of
them advertised itself as being a "PC drive for the Apple". Inside the
"drive" box was an Ampro Littleboard! It was just using the Apple as a
terminal.
There were two Apple on a board units for the PC. There was the Diamond
Trackstar (which was even available through RS for a while!), and there
was the Quadram Quadlink. The Quadlink had some quality control issues -
of 20 that we bought at the college, 16 were DOA. When Quadram replaced
those, 12 of the REPLACEMENTS were DOA! C'mon guys, you do have to test
some of them, and all of replacement units. One of them had a connector
installed backwards, such that it could NOT be connected using their
cables
WHEN we locate the Apple Turnover software, and IF we can find one of the
boards that WORKS, it can do Apple-DOS, Apple CP/M, P-System, and Pro-Dos.
The hardware is flaky and the software is buggy, and it is picky about
which drives it will work with. But it did work.
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin(a)xenosoft.com
5:28 a.m.
On Wed, 9 Jan 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote:
Fred, you gave me the impression that the Turnover was a heaping mound of
dung. Does/Did it actually work? Or can it be made to work? Or does
it at least work half-reliably? If so, do you still have the drivers and
docs for one somewhere? (Don't tell me: you gave this to me already ;)
This may well be the Rana box. I might have time to check on it today,
but I'm behind on a major move.
On Tue, 8 Jan
2002, Don Maslin wrote:
> The Microsolutions MatchPoint card in conjunction with a specific
> version of UniForm will permit read/write of the Apple II format
> disks. That is about the only combination that immediately occurs
> that permits this.
Turnover (previously Apple Turnover) from Vertex was
another earlier
version of the same thing. The Matchpoint is rare. I see them occasionally, but
not very often.
Actually, I saw one at VCF a few years ago, but when I went back to
get it, somebody else had already bought it.
DAMN!
Nope. It does RAW track read. You would then have to
parse the track
data to recreate bytes and sector boundaries. Not completely trivial,
but quite feasible.
Not a problem. I'd just take the Disk ][ controller machine code and
convert it to C ;)
What about the
(Applied Engineering) PC Transporter? It's an Apple ][
card that allows you to connect up a PC drive to your Apple and transfer
files. I think I have one somewhere. I also have a Rana PC<->Apple
gateway box but I don't know if it works like the PC Transporter. I guess
I should play with it someday and see what it does.
There were several after-market devices for the Apple to do it. One of
them advertised itself as being a "PC drive for the Apple". Inside the
"drive" box was an Ampro Littleboard! It was just using the Apple as a
terminal. There were two Apple on a board units for the PC.
There was the
Diamond Trackstar (which was even available through RS for a while!),
and there was the Quadram Quadlink. The Quadlink had some quality
control issues - of 20 that we bought at the college, 16 were DOA.
When Quadram replaced those, 12 of the REPLACEMENTS were DOA! C'mon
guys, you do have to test some of them, and all of replacement units.
One of them had a connector installed backwards, such that it could
NOT be connected using their cables
I missed several opportunities to buy a Diamond Trackstar off of Haggle a
few years back. There was this guy who obviously had way too many of them
and one was listed almost every week. I kept holding off thinking that
there would also be an opportunity to buy one and kept spending my money
on other things. Duh.
But actually, I think I did end up with one eventually, and it's somewhere
in my pile ;)
WHEN we locate the Apple Turnover software, and IF we
can find one of
the boards that WORKS, it can do Apple-DOS, Apple CP/M, P-System, and
Pro-Dos. The hardware is flaky and the software is buggy, and it is
picky about which drives it will work with. But it did work.
Hmm. Good enough. So where do you think the software is? Do you have
the source?
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
* Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *
5:30 a.m.
On Wed, 9 Jan 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote:
On Tue, 8 Jan 2002, Don Maslin wrote:
Only as a target of opportunity like your Option card.
- don
The Microsolutions MatchPoint card in conjunction
with a specific
version of UniForm will permit read/write of the Apple II format
disks. That is about the only combination that immediately occurs
that permits this.
Are these still available somewhere? I just found another Copy II Option
board today but I guess, according to Fred, I can't actually copy files
FROM an Apple disk to the PC. Does it at least allow sector access on the
Apple ][ floppy?
What about the (Applied Engineering) PC Transporter? It's an Apple ][
card that allows you to connect up a PC drive to your Apple and transfer
files. I think I have one somewhere. I also have a Rana PC<->Apple
gateway box but I don't know if it works like the PC Transporter. I guess
I should play with it someday and see what it does.
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
* Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *
8 Jan
8 Jan
3:43 p.m.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org
[mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of M H Stein
Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2002 8:28 PM
To: 'ClassicComputers'
Subject: Apple disk -> MSDOS
Do I gather from previous discussions that it's a
problem reading an Apple II floppy disk on a PC?
I'm about to get rid of my last Apple II clone (No,
Ernest, I haven't forgotten you) but there are some
Basic programs on Apple diskettes that I might want to
port to GW-Basic some day. Trouble is, the Apple
has no parallel or serial cards and I don't feel like
copying them off the screen by hand.
I think with a little software I could transfer it
to one of my PETs via the cassette port, and from there
it would be trivial to get to a PC, but I'm hoping
there's an easier way.
MIKE! Buddy!
I keep trying to email you but your account is always full,
or it just bounces back to me after three days.
Anyway, I have a Super Serial card that you can use, and I
can include a copy of ProTerm that might make moving these
files easier for you.
Contact me directly and we can discuss how to get these
items to you.
E.
9 Jan
9 Jan
12:14 p.m.
This thread has me a bit confused. Possibly why I overpaid for a superserial
card when I was trying to transfer things from a Doze-centric net.
I wouldn't dare to question Freds knowledge of disk formats nor Sellams
fierce devotion to A2s but isn't one of the problems to get it into a format
where it can be saved on a PC ? The A2-GS supports older A2 formats I
believe as well as 3.5 disks. Couldn't one save it to a 3.5 disk and then
use the various Mac transfer programs or a power-mac to save it to a DOS
formatted disk ? Am I missing something ? I guess the only way to learn is
to try the exercise myself.
As an aside there was a surplus dealer on the net that seemed to have a
ream of Diamond Trackstar cards going for $30 up to at least a year ago
when last I checked him and debated buying one.
Lawrence
Reply to:
lgwalker(a)mts.net
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org
[mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of M H Stein
Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2002 8:28 PM
To: 'ClassicComputers'
Subject: Apple disk -> MSDOS
Do I gather from previous discussions that it's a
problem reading an Apple II floppy disk on a PC?
I'm about to get rid of my last Apple II clone (No,
Ernest, I haven't forgotten you) but there are some
Basic programs on Apple diskettes that I might want to
port to GW-Basic some day. Trouble is, the Apple
has no parallel or serial cards and I don't feel like
copying them off the screen by hand.
I think with a little software I could transfer it
to one of my PETs via the cassette port, and from there
it would be trivial to get to a PC, but I'm hoping
there's an easier way.
MIKE! Buddy!
I keep trying to email you but your account is always full,
or it just bounces back to me after three days.
Anyway, I have a Super Serial card that you can use, and I
can include a copy of ProTerm that might make moving these
files easier for you.
Contact me directly and we can discuss how to get these
items to you.
E.
12:36 p.m.
There are actually numerous ways to get files from 5.25" Apple ][
diskettes into a PC.
Serial ports are a good one. One of the best ones when the disk format is
HARDWARE incompatible.
All of the others require either special hardware, or multiple steps.
For example, there is Amiga software that can read the Apple diskettes,
and other Amiga software that can write PC.
Or, could use one of the "new" Apple 2 models to transfer to 3.5" Apple 2
diskettes (about which I know almost nothing), and then use a Mac to read
those, and a Mac to write to PC disks.
Or, could get network cards for everything and build a heterogenous
network.
Or connect serial/modem and upload to your ISP, and then download with
another machine.
Or print it out and scan/OCR :-)
Or use a parallel printer interface (Grappler?) cable to a PC parallel
port, and write software to have the PC emulate a printer, but actually
store the incoming data (XenoComm Parallel)
Or transfer through cassette port to a Pet, read the Pet disks with an
Amiga, write Mac disks with the Amiga, use a Mac to write PC disks.
How about interfacing an IR LED to the cassette port and writing routines
to write Palm compatible IR?
It's only a problem if you want to try to do it in one step. (Such as
people who don't have a collection of miscellaneous machines)
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin(a)xenosoft.com
On Wed, 9 Jan 2002, Lawrence Walker wrote:
This thread has me a bit confused. Possibly why I
overpaid for a
superserial
card when I was trying to transfer things from a
Doze-centric net.
I wouldn't dare to question Freds knowledge of disk formats nor Sellams
fierce devotion to A2s but isn't one of the problems to get it into a format
where it can be saved on a PC ? The A2-GS supports older A2 formats I
believe as well as 3.5 disks. Couldn't one save it to a 3.5 disk and then
use the various Mac transfer programs or a power-mac to save it to a DOS
formatted disk ? Am I missing something ? I guess the only way to learn is
to try the exercise myself.
As an aside there was a surplus dealer on the net that seemed to have a
ream of Diamond Trackstar cards going for $30 up to at least a year ago
when last I checked him and debated buying one.
Lawrence
10 Jan
10 Jan
5:36 a.m.
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5:45 a.m.
--- "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" <cisin(a)xenosoft.com> wrote:
There are actually numerous ways to get files from
5.25" Apple ][
diskettes into a PC.
Serial ports are a good one. One of the best ones when the disk format
is HARDWARE incompatible.
Always a favorite. Even a lowly 1Mhz 6502 can bang out bits at 1200 bps.
All of the others require either special hardware, or
multiple steps.
Or, could get network cards for everything and build a heterogenous
network.
I'd *love* that one... the easiest way to "cheat" would be to implement
an 8-bit ISA slot for the 6502 and stick in an NE1000 or 3C501 card.
There are TCP/IP stacks for the 6502, but I think most of them are PPP
oriented and, therefore, don't include support for ethernet protocols
like ARP.
Or connect serial/modem and upload to your ISP, and
then download with
another machine.
Done that one!
Or print it out and scan/OCR :-)
Nice if it's short. Not nice if it's the entire contents of a floppy.
Or transfer through cassette port to a Pet, read the
Pet disks with an
Amiga, write Mac disks with the Amiga, use a Mac to write PC disks.
Or short-stop that one by attaching a 1541 to the PC with an X(E)1541
cable. I think there are more 1541 drives in the wild than 4040 drives.
Can you read 4040 disks in an Amiga, even with a 5.25" drive?
How about interfacing an IR LED to the cassette port
and writing routines
to write Palm compatible IR?
How slow can the Palm go? Slow enough? Interesting idea, though. There
are add-on IrDA interfaces out there - I have one for a 3.5" drive bay -
gives me a window out the front to sync Palms, etc., to a machine with
an IrDA connector on the motherboard. Not sure what the underlying
serial protocol is, though.
-ethan
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ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
bpope＠wordstock.com -
cisin＠xenosoft.com -
donm＠cts.com -
erd_6502＠yahoo.com -
ernestls＠attbi.com -
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