25 May
2007
25 May
'07
9:25 p.m.
Now that the Vax is in the basement, I've been
cleaning and checking it out, trying to address what
problems I can. First and foremost, there is no key.
But, I found that I could pop out the control panel
from behind, and that contains the actual turn switch
- the key is just the knob that turns the rotary
switch. My bright idea was to simply remove the key
mechanism for the moment, so that I could turn the
machine between modes with a modified television knob
or something. Simple - just remove a large hex nut
collar from the back, and slide it out. Unfortunately,
as it slid out, it ever so slightly caught the edge of
the plastic overlay for the control panel, and left a
little light colored mark around the bottom of the
hole where the overlay isn't sticking to the back
plastic, and has air under it. Nothing that affects
the functionality of the machine of course, but it
ticks me off, since I caused it. I can't think of a
way to fix it without causing more damage, however, so
I'll just have to live with it.
Now that I can switch the machine on (once I get
confirmation on the orientation of the power
controller connector, see previous post), I should
soon be able to test run it. One thing that needs to
be addressed first, is that this machine must have
originally been fitted with an external unibus
expansion box - there is a large flat white cable
inside, connected to a paddle board on the last Unibus
slot. This cable was cut with scissors or something
where it exits the cabinet. I have removed this, but I
will need to install a Unibus terminator, correct? I
should be able to steal the terminator out of my 11/84
for now - are they the same, or was the Vax Unibus a
little different?
-Ian
25 May
25 May
10:55 p.m.
On Friday 25 May 2007 21:25, Mr Ian Primus wrote:
Now that I can switch the machine on (once I get
confirmation on the orientation of the power
controller connector, see previous post), I should
soon be able to test run it. One thing that needs to
be addressed first, is that this machine must have
originally been fitted with an external unibus
expansion box - there is a large flat white cable
inside, connected to a paddle board on the last Unibus
slot. This cable was cut with scissors or something
where it exits the cabinet. I have removed this, but I
will need to install a Unibus terminator, correct? I
should be able to steal the terminator out of my 11/84
for now - are they the same, or was the Vax Unibus a
little different?
Nope, a UNIBUS terminator is a UNIBUS terminator for the most part. The
only difference between terminators really is whether or not they have
boot roms on them (which an 11/84 terminator shouldn't have, and the vax
doesn't need/can't use).
Pat
--
Purdue University ITAP/RCAC --- http://www.rcac.purdue.edu/
The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org
26 May
26 May
10:12 a.m.
Well, I hooked that cable up poperly, fitted a Unibus
terminator, hooked it up, set the "keyswitch" to
Local, crossed my fingers and hit the breaker. It's
alive! I get the >>> prompt on the VT220. It does,
however, give me ERR RAM:90 on powerup, but at least
it communicates with the terminal and the power
supplies work and whatnot. It'll be an adventure to
get this running - I have no bootable media, and I
don't have a disk controller at all in here. There's a
TU80 controller (M7454) - can this be connected to a
Pertec interface tape drive?
-Ian
11:56 a.m.
On 5/25/07, Mr Ian Primus <ian_primus at yahoo.com> wrote:
Now that the Vax is in the basement, I've been
cleaning and checking it out, trying to address what
problems I can. First and foremost, there is no key.
The standard DEC key is stamped XX2247 (I have on on my regular
keyring). You can either try to get one from a DEC enthusiast, or for
a bit of money ($15?) you can get a full-service locksmith to code-cut
you one based on that number.
I have only ever encountered one machine in 25 years that didn't have
the default key.
-ethan
7:37 p.m.
The standard DEC key is stamped XX2247 (I have on on
my regular
keyring). You can either try to get one from a DEC enthusiast, or for
So do I :-)
a bit of money ($15?) you can get a full-service
locksmith to code-cut
you one based on that number.
Or real madmen with a lathe/mill and a dividing head can machine it
themselves from metal tubing ;-)
I have only ever encountered one machine in 25 years that didn't have
the default key.
Well, later DEC machines (11/44, etc) take the smae-sized key, but there
are no pins in the lock. Any thing that will fit into the lock and engage
with the grouve in the central it will work. The official DEC key is just
a plastic moulding with a ridge inside. Obviosuly an XX2247 will work too.
The 11/05 , 11/10 and GT40 had a Yale-type cylinder lock with a flat key.
3 wafer tumbers IIRC, very easy to pick if you're so inclinded (or of
course you can dismantle it from the panel casting quite easily.
Or are you saying you had an 11/750 (or similar) that needed a 'proper'
tubular key (with the notches) but it wasn't an XX2247?
-tony
9:11 p.m.
On May 26, 2007, at 7:37 PM, Tony Duell wrote:
Same here. I think that's the badge of a true DECaholic.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire
Port Charlotte, FL
The standard
DEC key is stamped XX2247 (I have on on my regular
keyring). You can either try to get one from a DEC enthusiast, or
for
So do I :-)
10:20 p.m.
--- Dave McGuire <mcguire at neurotica.com> wrote:
On May 26, 2007, at 7:37 PM, Tony Duell wrote:
Same here. I think that's the badge of a true
DECaholic.
Heh - I have a "key" that I carry on my keyring that
is really an allen key - the same size as the allen
key turn locks on the DEC doors on small cabinets -
like the TU8x tape drive, the front and back doors to
the 750, and similar cabinets. It's stamped IBM though
- I found it in some bin of debris a long time ago,
and it's remained with me ever since. It comes in
handy a little _too_ often.
-Ian
> The standard DEC key is stamped XX2247 (I
have on
on my regular
> keyring). You can either try to get one from
a
DEC enthusiast, or
for
So do I :-) 
27 May
27 May
5:39 p.m.
On 27/5/07 02:11, "Dave McGuire" <mcguire at neurotica.com> wrote:
On May 26, 2007, at 7:37 PM, Tony Duell wrote:
Same here. I think that's the badge of a true DECaholic.
*raises hand*
--
Adrian/Witchy
Binary Dinosaurs creator/curator
Www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the UK's biggest private home computer
collection?
The
standard DEC key is stamped XX2247 (I have on on my regular
keyring). You can either try to get one from a DEC enthusiast, or
for
So do I :-)
5:39 p.m.
On May 26, 2007, at 7:37 PM, Tony Duell wrote:
Same here. I think that's the badge of a true DECaholic.
What I didn't say was that the 'fob' of my keyring is a DEC Unibus grant
continuity card (the single-height one, with a hole drilled through it at
the non-finger end to put the keyring thorugh). I've actually used it
once as a grant card...
-tony
The
standard DEC key is stamped XX2247 (I have on on my regular
keyring). You can either try to get one from a DEC enthusiast, or
for
So do I :-)
7:41 p.m.
>> The
standard DEC key is stamped XX2247 (I have
on on my regular
> >> keyring). So do I :-)
Same here. I think that's the badge of a true
28 May
28 May
10:06 p.m.
On 5/27/07, Tony Duell <ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk> wrote:
What I didn't say was that the 'fob' of my
keyring is a DEC Unibus grant
continuity card (the single-height one, with a hole drilled through it at
the non-finger end to put the keyring thorugh). I've actually used it
once as a grant card...
Nice. I may have to make one of those for my machine room.
Back when I did DEC stuff 100% of the time, our 11/750 XX2247 key
dangled from a t-handle hex key to open the doors - that way, no
matter what, you had the right tool at hand.
-ethan
27 May
27 May
3:08 a.m.
On 5/26/07, Tony Duell <ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk> wrote:
Yes. I wasn't counting those.
Or real madmen with a lathe/mill and a dividing head
can machine it
themselves from metal tubing ;-)
My brother is a locksmith... he machined himself a 7-position tubular
_lockpick_... 7 feelers and a restriction collet - you sort of twist
and press in a particular motion, and the feelers eventually (60
seconds?) slide to the right positions to open the lock. One thing
that's cooler than picking an ordinary pin-tumbler lock is that you
can take the tubular lock pick to a tubular key cutter and make a
"real" key from it.
I have only ever encountered one machine in 25 years that didn't have
the default key.
Well, later DEC machines (11/44, etc) take the smae-sized key, but there
are no pins in the lock. Any thing that will fit into the lock and engage
with the grouve in the central it will work. The official DEC key is just
a plastic moulding with a ridge inside. Obviosuly an XX2247 will work too. The 11/05 , 11/10 and GT40 had a Yale-type cylinder
lock with a flat key.
3 wafer tumbers IIRC, very easy to pick if you're so inclinded (or of
course you can dismantle it from the panel casting quite easily.
Yes; not those either (I have an 11/05)
Or are you saying you had an 11/750 (or similar) that
needed a 'proper'
tubular key (with the notches) but it wasn't an XX2247?
It was a PDP-8/L - when I got that first PDP-8/L at Dayton 25 years
ago, it came with a "mate" for parts (no front panel, no core stack,
broken chassis, some damage to the backplane...). That second CPU had
a key that was *not* an XX2247.
-ethan
11:50 a.m.
From: "Ethan Dicks" <ethan.dicks at
gmail.com>
On 5/26/07, Tony Duell <ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk> wrote:
Hi
I found that just taking the lock to a locksmith and $15 was
just as good. I did this for the lock on my Nicolet 1080 that
was connected to the powerswitch.
He made two keys for this price.
Dwight
_________________________________________________________________
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Or real madmen with a lathe/mill and a dividing
head can machine it
themselves from metal tubing ;-)
My brother is a locksmith... he machined himself a 7-position tubular
_lockpick_... 7 feelers and a restriction collet - you sort of twist
and press in a particular motion, and the feelers eventually (60
seconds?) slide to the right positions to open the lock. One thing
that's cooler than picking an ordinary pin-tumbler lock is that you
can take the tubular lock pick to a tubular key cutter and make a
"real" key from it.
5:50 p.m.
On 5/26/07, Tony Duell <ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk> wrote:
I've seen pictures of them and know the principle.
Or real madmen with a lathe/mill and a dividing
head can machine it
themselves from metal tubing ;-)
My brother is a locksmith... he machined himself a 7-position tubular
_lockpick_... 7 feelers and a restriction collet - you sort of twist and press in a particular motion, and the feelers
eventually (60
seconds?) slide to the right positions to open the lock. One thing
that's cooler than picking an ordinary pin-tumbler lock is that you
can take the tubular lock pick to a tubular key cutter and make a
"real" key from it.
Or measure the depths of the feelers to determine the key code.
Of coruser if (as with DEC equipment) you can remove the lock without
picking it,. you can often dismantle the lock from the rear, extract the
tumbllers and measure them with a micrometer. And then cut the key from
that data.
-tony
29 May
29 May
7:01 a.m.
On Sun, 2007-05-27 at 00:37 +0100, Tony Duell wrote:
You scare me. You're literally at the far end of the next country
along, and you still scare me.
I know the key for the front panel on my MicroVAX 3300 resembles a bike
lock key but without any of the "plungers". In fact, although I have
the plastic key that came with it, my bike lock key and my sister's
Krooklok key fit it!
The standard
DEC key is stamped XX2247 (I have on on my regular
keyring). You can either try to get one from a DEC enthusiast, or for
So do I :-)
a bit of money ($15?) you can get a full-service
locksmith to code-cut
you one based on that number.
Or real madmen with a lathe/mill and a dividing head can machine it
themselves from metal tubing ;-)
I have only ever encountered one machine in 25 years that didn't have
the default key.
Well, later DEC machines (11/44, etc) take the smae-sized key, but there
are no pins in the lock. Any thing that will fit into the lock and engage
with the grouve in the central it will work. The official DEC key is just
a plastic moulding with a ridge inside. Obviosuly an XX2247 will work too. The 11/05 , 11/10 and GT40 had a Yale-type cylinder
lock with a flat key.
3 wafer tumbers IIRC, very easy to pick if you're so inclinded (or of
course you can dismantle it from the panel casting quite easily.
I picked the panel lock on my OEM PDP-11/73. It seemed to have three
wavers.
Gordon
9:37 a.m.
On 5/29/07, Gordon JC Pearce <gordon at gjcp.net> wrote:
I know the key for the front panel on my MicroVAX 3300
resembles a bike
lock key but without any of the "plungers". In fact, although I have
the plastic key that came with it, my bike lock key and my sister's
Krooklok key fit it!
Any "standard" tubular key should work. All that's required is the
locator tooth to grab the switch body, and an appropriate diameter to
fit down into the groove. Personally, I like to use the plastic keys
that come with the equipment in the first place, because I don't want
to induce wear on the switch by repeated insertions of a metal key
into a plastic switch body.
In the absence of a plastic key, for the newer machines (11/24,
11/44...), one could just go to a locksmith and buy a blank tubular
key. With no notches, it shouldn't be more than a couple of dollars.
-ethan
8:11 p.m.
Or real madmen
with a lathe/mill and a dividing head can machine it
themselves from metal tubing ;-)
You scare me. You're literally at the far end of the next country
along, and you still scare me. 
26 May
26 May
3:39 p.m.
The 11/750 used a special Unibus Exerciser Terminator which IIRC had some
diag registers in it.
I think it was an M9313.
Google shows them available from a lot of resellers...
I know the diags used them.... don't know about the power-up self test.
bill
On 5/25/07, Mr Ian Primus <ian_primus at yahoo.com> wrote:
Now that the Vax is in the basement, I've been
cleaning and checking it out, trying to address what
problems I can. First and foremost, there is no key.
But, I found that I could pop out the control panel
from behind, and that contains the actual turn switch
- the key is just the knob that turns the rotary
switch. My bright idea was to simply remove the key
mechanism for the moment, so that I could turn the
machine between modes with a modified television knob
or something. Simple - just remove a large hex nut
collar from the back, and slide it out. Unfortunately,
as it slid out, it ever so slightly caught the edge of
the plastic overlay for the control panel, and left a
little light colored mark around the bottom of the
hole where the overlay isn't sticking to the back
plastic, and has air under it. Nothing that affects
the functionality of the machine of course, but it
ticks me off, since I caused it. I can't think of a
way to fix it without causing more damage, however, so
I'll just have to live with it.
Now that I can switch the machine on (once I get
confirmation on the orientation of the power
controller connector, see previous post), I should
soon be able to test run it. One thing that needs to
be addressed first, is that this machine must have
originally been fitted with an external unibus
expansion box - there is a large flat white cable
inside, connected to a paddle board on the last Unibus
slot. This cable was cut with scissors or something
where it exits the cabinet. I have removed this, but I
will need to install a Unibus terminator, correct? I
should be able to steal the terminator out of my 11/84
for now - are they the same, or was the Vax Unibus a
little different?
-Ian
--
--
d|i|g|i|t|a|l had it THEN. Don't you wish you could still buy it now!
pechter-at-gmail.com
4:34 p.m.
On 5/26/07, Bill Pechter <pechter at gmail.com> wrote:
The 11/750 used a special Unibus Exerciser Terminator
which IIRC had some
diag registers in it.
I think it was an M9313.
Google shows them available from a lot of resellers...
I know the diags used them.... don't know about the power-up self test.
Our 11/750 didn't have one, and I don't think the power-up self-test
requires it.
OTOH, the DWBUA requires a UET module.
-ethan
7:24 p.m.
Our 11/750 didn't have one, and I don't think
the
power-up self-test
requires it.
OTOH, the DWBUA requires a UET module.
So far, I haven't gotten far enough to find out wether
my Unibus terminator I'm using is right, but I think
it should. I think it's a M9302, it came from an
11/84. I am having problems with the Vax though, but I
can't see them having anything to do with the Unibus.
At powerup, I get the message ERR RAM:90, and the RD
FAIL lamp is lit on the front. I have also gotten
RAM:C0 errors, and I believe one other number. On the
RDM board (L0006) there appears to be like two dozen
9114 RAM chips, and they're soldered to the board. I
have a couple of spare 2114's (the 9114 is the same,
from what I know) but I don't know which chip needs
to
be replaced. Normally, I'd substitute one at a time,
but since the chips are soldered, that isn't much of
an option. So... any way of correlating the error
numbers to the failed chip, or do I need to just start
guessing?
Will the machine even work without the RDM? I get the
>> prompt and can enter commands there, and all
seems
well. But when I hit ^D and get into the RDM> prompt,
keys typed don't display, and the cursor moves around,
sometimes forward a couple cells, sometimes backwards.
Enter seems to work though, giving me a new RDM>
prompt, although no other output can be generated, and
I can't seem to get back to >>> without shutting the
machine off.
-Ian
27 May
27 May
8:26 a.m.
The Remote Diagnostic modules were property of DEC and were supposed to be
removed
when the machine went off service contract.
The machines run fine without them -- but the RS232 console connection and
some other backplane cables IIRC need moving when you pull 'em.
Bill
On 5/26/07, Mr Ian Primus <ian_primus at yahoo.com> wrote:
--
--
d|i|g|i|t|a|l had it THEN. Don't you wish you could still buy it now!
pechter-at-gmail.com
Our 11/750 didn't have one, and I don't
think the
power-up self-test
requires it.
OTOH, the DWBUA requires a UET module.
So far, I haven't gotten far enough to find out wether
my Unibus terminator I'm using is right, but I think
it should. I think it's a M9302, it came from an
11/84. I am having problems with the Vax though, but I
can't see them having anything to do with the Unibus.
At powerup, I get the message ERR RAM:90, and the RD
FAIL lamp is lit on the front. I have also gotten
RAM:C0 errors, and I believe one other number. On the
RDM board (L0006) there appears to be like two dozen
9114 RAM chips, and they're soldered to the board. I
have a couple of spare 2114's (the 9114 is the same,
from what I know) but I don't know which chip needs to
be replaced. Normally, I'd substitute one at a time,
but since the chips are soldered, that isn't much of
an option. So... any way of correlating the error
numbers to the failed chip, or do I need to just start
guessing?
Will the machine even work without the RDM? I get the
>> prompt and can enter commands there, and
all seems
well. But when I hit ^D and get into the RDM> prompt,
keys typed don't display, and the cursor moves around,
sometimes forward a couple cells, sometimes backwards.
Enter seems to work though, giving me a new RDM>
prompt, although no other output can be generated, and
I can't seem to get back to >>> without shutting the
machine off.
-Ian
9:49 a.m.
--- Bill Pechter <pechter at gmail.com> wrote:
The Remote Diagnostic modules were property of DEC
and were supposed to be
removed
when the machine went off service contract.
I was wondering why there was a "Property of Digital
Field Service" sticker on the board. I was originally
thinking that it came from some field spares kit or
something.
The machines run fine without them -- but the RS232
console connection and
some other backplane cables IIRC need moving when
you pull 'em.
Ah. Good to know. I might have to do that - I'll see
if I can find the manual online somewhere.
Fortunately, the >>> console seems to be unaffected by
the bad RDM memory. Might be able to just leave it in.
Now I need to find a disk or tape controller...
-Ian
28 May
28 May
6:20 a.m.
Van: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org namens Ethan Dicks
Verzonden: za 26-05-2007 22:34
Aan: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Onderwerp: Re: More with the Vax 11/750
On 5/26/07, Bill Pechter <pechter at gmail.com> wrote:
The 11/750 used a special Unibus Exerciser Terminator
which IIRC had some
diag registers in it.
I think it was an M9313.
Google shows them available from a lot of resellers...
I know the diags used them.... don't know about the power-up self test.
Our 11/750 didn't have one, and I don't think the power-up self-test
requires it.
OTOH, the DWBUA requires a UET module.
-ethan
------------
... just back from a very succesfull trip to the UK and catching up
on 610 posts since Thursday 4:30 am (when I left home) ...
I checked my working (= booting and running VAX/VMS) VAX-11/750.
Next to the VAX backplane is a UNIBUS backplane and the last slot has
an M9312. Sorry, I cannot look inside to see what is on the M9312.
I suspect *no* ROMs (they wouldnot work), but perhaps interesting
is to see how the jumpers are set.
have fun,
- Henk.
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6259
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22 comments
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participants (10)
-
ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
dkelvey＠hotmail.com -
ethan.dicks＠gmail.com -
gordon＠gjcp.net -
henk.gooijen＠oce.com -
ian_primus＠yahoo.com -
mcguire＠neurotica.com -
pat＠computer-refuge.org -
pechter＠gmail.com -
witchy＠binarydinosaurs.co.uk