18 Mar
1999
18 Mar
'99
9:06 a.m.
The standard allowed for 16-bit use, but no more AFIK. The IEEE696 standard
provided for 24 bits of address and 16 bits of data. However, since the
signals on the S-100 were designed for the old 8080 functonal model, and
most of the signals which were required to run a computer's bus were simpler
than the model around which the S-100 was designed, the adoption of the
standard simply served to kill the S-100 bus. What's more, with its on-card
voltage regulation, far too much heat was generated in these linear
regulators for the technology which was current. This required fans and
fans were noisy enough to be objectionable on the desktop, which was the new
environment for computers.
The '696 standard defined cards which wouldn't work with the old versions
and which required far too much fiddling with the newer processors' bus
control signals to allow for a simple and elegant design solution, so the
bus simply went away, more or less of its own weight.
A decent reference for the S-100, though not a web site, is the
Osborne/McGraw-Hill book Interfacing to S-100/IEEE 696 Computers by Sol
Libes and Mark Garetz. This should give you all you need if you can find a
copy.
Dick
-----Original Message-----
From: Arfon Gryffydd <arfonrg(a)texas.net>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Thursday, March 18, 1999 12:30 PM
Subject: Re: S-100 bus specs
Is the S-100 bus used in any current computers? Can it
be expanded to
16/32/64 bits?
At 02:12 PM 3/18/99 -0500, you wrote:
Anyone know of a good reference on the web for the
S-100 bus (pin
assignments ect..)?
TIA,
Steve Robertson <steverob(a)hotoffice.com>
----------------------------------------
Tired of Micro$oft???
Move up to a REAL OS...
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###/ /__ / / / / / / / /_/ / / |####
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# ######
("LINUX" for those of you
without fixed-width fonts)
----------------------------------------
Be a Slacker! http://www.slackware.com
18 Mar
18 Mar
9:25 a.m.
On Thu, 18 Mar 1999, Richard Erlacher wrote:
The '696 standard defined cards which wouldn't
work with the old versions
and which required far too much fiddling with the newer processors' bus
control signals to allow for a simple and elegant design solution, so the
bus simply went away, more or less of its own weight.
But the S-100 bus was still in commercial production well into the 90s.
The last issue of <a magazine which I've forgotten the name of> is dated
1990 and still had articles on S-100 bus based products. From what I'm
told, there are still plenty of S-100 boxes being used as embedded
controllers, and these systems range anywhere from the Altair and IMSAI to
Godbout, Cromemco, etc. Cromemco actively manufactured S-100 systems
until they went out of business in around 1986 or so.
Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Don't rub the lamp if you don't want the genie to come out.
Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0
See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
[Last web site update: 02/15/99]
9:37 a.m.
New subject: Transistor help
Hi All
I have been looking for the specs of a transistor
that burned out on my Cromemco board. It seems to
be obsolete. I tried the NTE suggested replacement
but that didn't seem to have enough gain to work
correctly. None of the books I have show it.
It is a MPS6560.
I'm looking for max current, Vcbo and hfe.
Thanks
Dwight
9:57 a.m.
New subject: Transistor help
On Thu, 18 Mar 1999, Dwight Elvey wrote:
Hi All
I have been looking for the specs of a transistor
that burned out on my Cromemco board. It seems to
be obsolete. I tried the NTE suggested replacement
but that didn't seem to have enough gain to work
correctly. None of the books I have show it.
It is a MPS6560.
I'm looking for max current, Vcbo and hfe.
Thanks
Dwight
Which cromemco board??? Likely if the transistor doesn't ahve enough
gain there is another circuit fault as the 6560 is pretty loose spec
device.
Allison
11:13 a.m.
New subject: Transistor help
allisonp(a)world.std.com wrote:
On Thu, 18 Mar 1999, Dwight Elvey wrote:
Hi Allison
It is for a 8K Byte Saver. It is used for the flyback
driver for the high voltage supply. All of the other
transistors on the board are normal general purpose
types. The replacement transistor
that NTE had didn't seem to have enough gain. In order
for a flyback switcher to work, the edges have to be sharp.
I currently have a 2N4401 in there but it may have too much gain
or not be able to handle the higher reverse voltage on the
base lead caused by the feed back. The first one I tried
only lasted a few minutes. The next one I tried, I used a
larger base resistor and it seems to be holding but I'd
like to know what the intended gain and voltage range is.
The 2N4401 is not getting hot and I'm able to program parts
OK now, I'd just like to fix it correctly.
One of the others said Mouser Electronics (800-346-6873)
carries them ( Thanks Arfon ).
The transistor was blown trying to program a bad PROM. There
doesn't seem to be any other damage. The transformer seem
OK.
Dwight
Hi All
I have been looking for the specs of a transistor
that burned out on my Cromemco board. It seems to
be obsolete. I tried the NTE suggested replacement
but that didn't seem to have enough gain to work
correctly. None of the books I have show it.
It is a MPS6560.
I'm looking for max current, Vcbo and hfe.
Thanks
Dwight
Which cromemco board??? Likely if the transistor doesn't ahve enough
gain there is another circuit fault as the 6560 is pretty loose spec
device.
Allison
11:39 a.m.
New subject: Transistor help
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10:05 a.m.
New subject: Transistor help
Mouser Electronics (800-346-6873) carries them.
p/n: 333-mps6560 TO-92 NPN General purpose $.31ea.
At 12:37 PM 3/18/99 -0800, you wrote:
Hi All
I have been looking for the specs of a transistor
that burned out on my Cromemco board. It seems to
be obsolete. I tried the NTE suggested replacement
but that didn't seem to have enough gain to work
correctly. None of the books I have show it.
It is a MPS6560.
I'm looking for max current, Vcbo and hfe.
Thanks
Dwight
----------------------------------------
Tired of Micro$oft???
Move up to a REAL OS...
######__ __ ____ __ __ _ __ #
#####/ / / / / __ | / / / / | |/ /##
####/ / / / / / / / / / / / | /###
###/ /__ / / / / / / / /_/ / / |####
##/____/ /_/ /_/ /_/ /_____/ /_/|_|####
# ######
("LINUX" for those of you
without fixed-width fonts)
----------------------------------------
Be a Slacker! http://www.slackware.com
10:41 a.m.
New subject: Transistor help
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10:08 a.m.
New subject: Cromemco (was Re: S-100 bus specs)
On Thu, 18 Mar 1999, Sellam Ismail wrote:
...Cromemco actively manufactured S-100 systems
until they went out of business in around 1986 or so.
as much as I absolutely hate to contradict... <BIG B^} >
You may want to take a look at www.cromemco.com before you cast the
previous thot in stone...
-jim
---
jimw(a)agora.rdrop.com
The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw
Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174
10:34 a.m.
New subject: Cromemco (was Re: S-100 bus specs)
On Thu, 18 Mar 1999, James Willing wrote:
You're kidding!
Wow, you're not. But this is a far different company than us old tech
nerds know and love. Most of the business base seems to be European
these days. But hey, this is significant. A micro/mini-computer company
that's been around longer than Apple and is still alive and kicking.
That's more than you can say for any other computer comapnies that sprang
up around the same time, save for the obvious.
I stand corrected (yet again :)
Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Don't rub the lamp if you don't want the genie to come out.
Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0
See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
[Last web site update: 02/15/99]
...Cromemco
actively manufactured S-100 systems
until they went out of business in around 1986 or so.
as much as I absolutely hate to contradict... <BIG B^} >
You may want to take a look at www.cromemco.com before you cast the
previous thot in stone...
11:36 a.m.
New subject: Cromemco (was Re: S-100 bus specs)
On Thu, 18 Mar 1999, Sellam Ismail wrote:
On Thu, 18 Mar 1999, James Willing wrote:
You're kidding!
Wow, you're not. But this is a far different company than us old tech
nerds know and love. Most of the business base seems to be European
these days. But hey, this is significant. A micro/mini-computer company
that's been around longer than Apple and is still alive and kicking.
That's more than you can say for any other computer comapnies that sprang
up around the same time, save for the obvious.
Their history seems a bit revisionist, and in some cases downright
fradulent. This is from the History section of their web site:
1975
First supplier of complete micro computer systems (based on Z-80)
Call me stupid but the Z80 wasn't even invented yet:
July 1976
The Apple I computer board is sold in kit form, and delivered to
stores by Steve Jobs and Steve Wozniak. Price: US$666.66. [46] [218]
[593.350]
Paul Terrell orders 50 Apple computers from Steve Jobs, for his Byte
Shop. [266.213]
*****Zilog releases the 2.5-MHz Z80, an 8-bit microprocessor whose
instruction set is a superset of the Intel 8080. [32] [202.168]
(early 1975 [9]) (1975 [556.11]) (1975 December [346.257])
Micom Data Systems ships its first product, the Micom 2000 word
processing computer. [615.99]
Source: Chronology of Events in the History of Microcomputers
http://www.islandnet.com/~kpolsson/comphist/comp1971.htm
And then there's:
1976
Development of the industrial standard S-100 Bus IEEE 696
First of all, I hope they don't intend to mean they invented the S-100
bus. That goes to Ed Roberts. And as far as I know, the IEEE696 standard
wasn't ratified until 1982.
December 1982
Pepsi-Cola president John Sculley first visits Apple Computer.
[745.62]
Tabor demonstrates a 3.25-inch floppy disk drive, the Model TC500
Drivette. Unformatted capacity is up to 500KB on a single side.
[444.72]
Amdek releases the Amdisk-3 Micro-Floppy-disk Cartridge system. It
houses two 3-inch floppy drives designed by
Hitachi/Matsushita/Maxell. Price is US$800, without a controller
card. [444.70]
Satellite Software International ships WordPerfect 2.0 for DOS, for
US$500. [330.108] (v2.2 in October [502.49])
*****The IEEE Standards Board passes the IEEE 696/S-100 bus standard.
[443.278]
Digital Research announces CP/M+. [443.431]
Atari issues a US$55 rebate on the Atari 400, dropping its retail
price to under US$200. [713.268]
Texas Instruments extends its US$100 rebate on the TI 99/4A to April
1983. [713.268]
Apple Computer becomes the first personal computer company to reach
US$1 billion in annual sales. [46]
Source: Chronology of Events in the History of Microcomputers
http://www.islandnet.com/~kpolsson/comphist/comp1981.htm
Then there's this:
1979
First multi-user operating system CROMIX (UNIX derivative)
First multi-user operating system...what? On a micro? Maybe.
Sheesh. These guys are as bad if not worse than Tandy and their
self-aggrandizing history.
(Is it obvious I have too much time on my hands these days? Oh well,
someone's got to keep the record straight.)
cc: webmaster(a)cromemco.com
Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Don't rub the lamp if you don't want the genie to come out.
Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0
See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
[Last web site update: 02/15/99]
...Cromemco actively manufactured S-100 systems
until they went out of business in around 1986 or so.
as much as I absolutely hate to contradict... <BIG B^} >
You may want to take a look at www.cromemco.com before you cast the
previous thot in stone...
12:58 p.m.
New subject: Cromemco (was Re: S-100 bus specs)
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2:30 p.m.
New subject: Cromemco (was Re: S-100 bus specs)
Re:
IIRC, I was using a multiuser Alpha Micro (probably an AM 100)
in my apartment around June or July of 1978. It was based on the
Western Digital microengine, which emulated a DEC 11.
Stan
1979
First multi-user operating system CROMIX (UNIX derivative)
First multi-user operating system...what? On a micro? Maybe.
Even then, dubious. When did OS-9 come out?
19 Mar
19 Mar
1:36 p.m.
New subject: Cromemco (was Re: S-100 bus specs)
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18 Mar
18 Mar
3:04 p.m.
New subject: self-aggrandizing history, and the opposite (was Re: Cromemco (was Re: S-100 bus specs))
Sheesh. These
guys are as bad if not worse than Tandy and their
self-aggrandizing history.
Most companies are the same...
But HP did the opposite ;-). Two years ago (1997) they handed out
stickers with 'HP calculators - 25 years of inovation' on them. At the
HPCC conference that year, I had one of those stickers sitting on top of
my HP9100B - a (then) 28-year-old HP calculator. 
11:05 a.m.
New subject: Cromemco (was Re: S-100 bus specs)
On Thu, 18 Mar 1999, James Willing wrote:
On Thu, 18 Mar 1999, Sellam Ismail wrote:
Hmm. The history file contains no mention of their first product,
the TV Dazzler.
On the other hand, their newer system, the CCube, looks sweet. Of
course, the real question is "When will Linux run on it?". Since
at this point, Linux can't quite handle an array of 1024
processors. (Maybe by kernel 2.4).
--
Ward Griffiths
"the timid die just like the daring; and if you don't take the plunge then
you'll just take the fall" Michael Longcor
...Cromemco actively manufactured S-100 systems
until they went out of business in around 1986 or so.
as much as I absolutely hate to contradict... <BIG B^} >
You may want to take a look at www.cromemco.com before you cast the
previous thot in stone... 
11:11 a.m.
New subject: Cromemco (was Re: S-100 bus specs)
Wasn't there a cromeNco as well, into video products, or have I been
mis-spelling it for years?. By the way if you go to www.commodore.com you get
a hazardous waste cleanup service's web page. Weird....
Ward D. Griffiths III wrote:
On Thu, 18 Mar 1999, James Willing wrote:
On Thu, 18 Mar 1999, Sellam Ismail wrote:
Hmm. The history file contains no mention of their first product,
the TV Dazzler.
On the other hand, their newer system, the CCube, looks sweet. Of
course, the real question is "When will Linux run on it?". Since
at this point, Linux can't quite handle an array of 1024
processors. (Maybe by kernel 2.4).
--
Ward Griffiths
"the timid die just like the daring; and if you don't take the plunge then
you'll just take the fall" Michael Longcor ...Cromemco actively manufactured S-100 systems
until they went out of business in around 1986 or so.
as much as I absolutely hate to contradict... <BIG B^} >
You may want to take a look at www.cromemco.com before you cast the
previous thot in stone... 
3:45 p.m.
New subject: Site names Was: Re: Cromemco (was Re: S-100 bus specs)
Upon the date 04:11 PM 3/18/99 -0600, Russ Blakeman said something like:
Wasn't there a cromeNco as well, into video
products, or have I been
mis-spelling it for years?. By the way if you go to www.commodore.com you get
a hazardous waste cleanup service's web page. Weird....
Yeah, try www.decdirect.com. It's not quite what some of us DEC nuts
looking for DEC's parts and supply site expect either. It's Direct Sales
Inc. Although, the company is a computer reseller, it's not the DECdirect I
needed. How did DSI end up with decdirect.com I wonder?
Regards, Chris
-- --
Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian
Jamestown, NY USA cfandt(a)netsync.net
Member of Antique Wireless Association
URL: http://www.ggw.org/awa
19 Mar
19 Mar
10:53 a.m.
New subject: Cromemco (was Re: S-100 bus specs)
Russ Blakeman wrote:
Wasn't there a cromeNco as well, into video
products, or have I been
mis-spelling it for years?. By the way if you go to www.commodore.com you get
a hazardous waste cleanup service's web page. Weird....
Try www.commodore.net for the correct homepage for Commodore (errr.... sorry,
TULIP). Still the logo is familiar.... even if they only make Pentium machines
these days - I got a giggle out of the name of the PC's they're making - The
Evolution..... Maybe I could buy one, chuck out the PC guts & build one of the
128's into the empty case :-)
cheers,
Lance
4:27 a.m.
New subject: Cromemco (was Re: S-100 bus specs)
Hi all,
At 01:08 PM 3/18/99 -0800, you wrote:
On Thu, 18 Mar 1999, Sellam Ismail wrote:
I could find only http://www.cromemco.com/EN/en.html, but no links to any
history, etc.
They seemed to change, though. When did Harry Garland and Roger Melen sell
their
share and Cromemco go another way? Didn't they once sell weather displays
for TV weather reporting?
-Dave
...Cromemco actively manufactured S-100 systems
until they went out of business in around 1986 or so.
as much as I absolutely hate to contradict... <BIG B^} >
You may want to take a look at www.cromemco.com before you cast the
previous thot in stone...
7:39 a.m.
New subject: Cromemco (was Re: S-100 bus specs)
On Fri, 19 Mar 1999, Dave Dameron wrote:
I could find only http://www.cromemco.com/EN/en.html,
but no links to any
history, etc.
Go to www.cromemco.com and click on the History button on the sidebar to
the left. It helps if you have frames.
Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Don't rub the lamp if you don't want the genie to come out.
Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0
See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
[Last web site update: 02/15/99]
6:29 p.m.
New subject: Cromemco (was Re: S-100 bus specs)
On 19 Mar 99 at 10:39, Sellam Ismail wrote:
On Fri, 19 Mar 1999, Dave Dameron wrote:
I got the same. I suspect it's because you need Java. There were no sidebars
and I am frame enabled.
ciao larry
lwalker(a)interlog.com
I could find only
http://www.cromemco.com/EN/en.html, but no links to any
history, etc.
Go to www.cromemco.com and click on the History button on the sidebar to
the left. It helps if you have frames.
Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com
20 Mar
20 Mar
6:45 a.m.
New subject: Cromemco (was Re: S-100 bus specs)
On Sat, 20 Mar 1999, Lawrence Walker wrote:
I got the same. I suspect it's because you need Java. There were no sidebars
and I am frame enabled.
Yes, the sidebar is a Java applet. Here's the direct link for the
Java-impaired:
www.cromemco.com/EN/HistoryE/body_historye.html
Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Don't rub the lamp if you don't want the genie to come out.
Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0
See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
[Last web site update: 02/15/99]
I could find only http://www.cromemco.com/EN/en.html,
but no links to any
history, etc.
Go to www.cromemco.com and click on the History button on the sidebar to
the left. It helps if you have frames.
Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com
9252
days inactive
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