18 Mar
2013
18 Mar
'13
4:21 p.m.
OK, so I dug the Kaypro II back out of storage now that I have some
usable floppy disks, thanks to a good friend. :)
Anyway, I found out that the current A: drive wasn't being detected in
the BIOS on my disk creation machine. B: disk works fine. Checked all
connections and made sure everything was seated properly, and still no
luck. So I pulled both drives and inspected everything and then just
swapped positions and re-installed them, hoping that the different
positions on the cable was what selects which drive is which. Well, not
so. The machine still tries to select the original A: drive. Is there a
jumper setting on these old full bay 5 1/4 floppies to select the drive
ID? Any ideas?
--
Dave Land
Land Computer Service
Check out my site at http://www.landcomp.net
18 Mar
18 Mar
4:45 p.m.
On Mon, 18 Mar 2013, Dave Land wrote:
OK, so I dug the Kaypro II back out of storage now
that I have some
usable floppy disks, thanks to a good friend. :)
Anyway, I found out that the current A: drive wasn't being detected in
the BIOS on my disk creation machine.
WAITAMINIT.
Is "the Kaypro II"
"disk creation machine"
the same machine, or are you talking about two different machines?
B: disk works fine. Checked all
connections and made sure everything was seated properly, and still no
luck. So I pulled both drives and inspected everything and then just
swapped positions and re-installed them, hoping that the different
positions on the cable was what selects which drive is which. Well, not
so. The machine still tries to select the original A: drive. Is there a
thought that you said that A: wasn't detected?
jumper setting on these old full bay 5 1/4 floppies to
select the drive
ID? Any ideas?
YES, there is.
What make and model drive are you using?
Near where the cable attaches, there are jumpers for drive select.
Depending on the brand of drive, it might be break-out DIP, DIP switches,
solder pads, or plug-in jumpers.
IBM PC used the SECOND position of those, (and the Tandon TM100 drive had
break-out DIP) and then played games with twisting parts of the cable.
Others used a plain cable and set the drive select.
TRS80 removed pins in the cable connector of all the drives that were not
to be selected.
I don't remember which way Kaypro interrupted the drive select signals.
6:09 p.m.
On 3/18/13 6:14 PM, Terry Stewart wrote:
Yep, found that out. Thanks Terry. I checked your site and found the
link back to Dave Dunfield's for the floppy images. I tried mrynet.com,
but their FTP seems to be down at the moment. I'll probably try to image
a couple of disks later tonight. :)
--
Dave Land
Land Computer Service
Check out my site at http://www.landcomp.net
jumper setting
on these old full bay 5 1/4 floppies to select the drive
ID? Any ideas?
In my Kaypro II, the Tandon M-100 drives use an IC-type jumper for
drive select, not the cable. Remember to swap the terminating
resistor too.
Terry (Tez)
19 Mar
19 Mar
6:33 a.m.
On Mon, 18 Mar 2013, Dave Land wrote:
On 3/18/13 6:14 PM, Terry Stewart wrote:
Yep, found that out. Thanks Terry. I checked your site and found the link
back to Dave Dunfield's for the floppy images. I tried mrynet.com, but their
FTP seems to be down at the moment. I'll probably try to image a couple of
disks later tonight. :)
Dave, don't forget to check out the Kaypro section of the Don Maslin
archive over at http://www.retroarchive.org - there are a LOT of disk
images.
g.
--
Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007
http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.
http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home.
Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies.
ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment
A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes.
http://www.scarletdme.org - Get it _today_!
jumper
setting on these old full bay 5 1/4 floppies to select the drive
ID? Any ideas?
In my Kaypro II, the Tandon M-100 drives use an IC-type jumper for
drive select, not the cable. Remember to swap the terminating
resistor too.
Terry (Tez)
8:30 a.m.
On 3/19/13 7:33 AM, geneb wrote:
On Mon, 18 Mar 2013, Dave Land wrote:
Thanks Gene, I think it's kind of a moot point though. While I was
working on getting the remaining working floppy drive setup for an image
write, one of the caps on the power supply board went POW! and
everything went dark. Guess it just wasn't meant to be.
Anybody need any Kaypro II parts? (less the power supply and the bad
floppy drive of course...) I'm done messing with it.
At least I have one working CP/M machine, my Xerox 820-II. That's enough
to keep me occupied, along with all my other old toys. :)
Maybe I'll do something constructive and turn it into a 'retro-modern'
computer with a small flat screen in place of the CRT and grab a
micro-ATX board and stick in it. It's not like there's not enough room
in that big aluminum case to do most anything. :D
--
Dave Land
Land Computer Service
Check out my site at http://www.landcomp.net
On 3/18/13 6:14 PM, Terry Stewart wrote:
Yep, found that out. Thanks Terry. I checked your site and found the
link back to Dave Dunfield's for the floppy images. I tried
mrynet.com, but their FTP seems to be down at the moment. I'll
probably try to image a couple of disks later tonight. :)
Dave, don't forget to check out the Kaypro section of the Don Maslin
archive over at http://www.retroarchive.org - there are a LOT of disk
images.
g.
jumper
setting on these old full bay 5 1/4 floppies to select the drive
ID? Any ideas?
In my Kaypro II, the Tandon M-100 drives use an IC-type jumper for
drive select, not the cable. Remember to swap the terminating
resistor too.
Terry (Tez)
8:36 a.m.
On 03/19/2013 11:30 AM, Dave Land wrote:
Thanks Gene, I think it's kind of a moot point
though. While I was
working on getting the remaining working floppy drive setup for an image
write, one of the caps on the power supply board went POW! and
everything went dark. Guess it just wasn't meant to be.
Anybody need any Kaypro II parts? (less the power supply and the bad
floppy drive of course...) I'm done messing with it.
Parts?? It sounds like a machine that's ten minutes away from being
functional. Please don't kill it. Good heavens.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
8:45 a.m.
On Tue, 19 Mar 2013, Dave Land wrote:
Maybe I'll do something constructive and turn it
into a 'retro-modern'
computer with a small flat screen in place of the CRT and grab a micro-ATX
board and stick in it. It's not like there's not enough room in that big
aluminum case to do most anything. :D
It would make a neat chassis for a Raspberry Pi. :D
g.
--
Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007
http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.
http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home.
Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies.
ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment
A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes.
http://www.scarletdme.org - Get it _today_!
9:29 a.m.
> Maybe I'll do something constructive and turn
it into a 'retro-modern'
> computer with a small flat screen in place of the CRT and grab a micro-ATX
> board and stick in it. It's not like there's not enough room in that big
> aluminum case to do most anything. :D
On Tue, 19 Mar 2013, geneb wrote:
It would make a neat chassis for a Raspberry Pi. :D
Darth Vader's lunchbox would make a neat chassis for HUNDREDS of RPi.
Maybe use those to implement a non-custom part version of Deep Crack!
But, first you should replace that bad capacitator.
If you already know which one it is, then you are 90% of the way to full
functionality.
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin at xenosoft.com
10:15 a.m.
On 3/19/13 10:29 AM, Fred Cisin wrote:
Well, I hate to ruin you guy's day, but it's too late. Between the bad
floppy drive, the fried cap, and numerous other issues, the Kaypro is
now a parts machine. It got disassembled last night as a matter of fact.
I did come up with some interesting ideas, including one that 'geneb'
had mentioned. How about something like this... meet the K-Pad II.
http://www.landcomp.net/files/K-padII.jpg
Actually just goofing around and stuck my iPad in the space where the
CRT was.
Seriously though, I'm considering one of these:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pyle10-4-In-Wall-Mount-TFT-LCD-Flat-Panel-Monitor-P…
and setting it up with either a micro-ATX board or something similar,
while keeping the case and keyboard as close to original looking as
possible.
It will get retro-fitted with an updated 101 key insert to be compatible
with the USB keyboard input. The drive bay can house the hard drive,
DVD-ROM, and whatever.
--
Dave Land
Land Computer Service
Check out my site at http://www.landcomp.net
> Maybe
I'll do something constructive and turn it into a 'retro-modern'
> computer with a small flat screen in place of the CRT and grab a micro-ATX
> board and stick in it. It's not like there's not enough room in that big
> aluminum case to do most anything. :D
On Tue, 19 Mar 2013, geneb wrote:
It would make a neat chassis for a Raspberry Pi.
:D
Darth Vader's lunchbox would make a neat chassis for HUNDREDS of RPi.
Maybe use those to implement a non-custom part version of Deep Crack!
But, first you should replace that bad capacitator.
If you already know which one it is, then you are 90% of the way to full
functionality.
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin at xenosoft.com
9:27 a.m.
On Mar 19, 2013, at 11:30, Dave Land <xmechanic at landcomp.net> wrote:
Thanks Gene, I think it's kind of a moot point though. While I was working on getting
the remaining working floppy drive setup for an image write, one of the caps on the power
supply board went POW! and everything went dark. Guess it just wasn't meant to be.
Anybody need any Kaypro II parts? (less the power supply and the bad floppy drive of
course...) I'm done messing with it.
No no no, caps are cheap and easy to obtain! Go to
Digi-Key or Mouser and find one of the same dimensions
with an equal or higher working voltage and capacitance.
Should take you maybe half an hour of work, and the
actual replacement is super-simple.
- Dave
2:05 p.m.
Thanks Gene, I think it's kind of a moot point
though. While I was
working on getting the remaining working floppy drive setup for an image
write, one of the caps on the power supply board went POW! and
everything went dark. Guess it just wasn't meant to be.
Hang on a second. You have a machine that is almost certainly repairable.
You mgith not want or be able to repair it, but I can assure you that
there are plenty of people who can. And yet you want to part it out? Why
Anybody need any Kaypro II parts? (less the power
supply and the bad
floppy drive of course...) I'm done messing with it.
Amd why not the PSU and floppy drive? Cotnrary to popular opinion, those
can actualyl ebn repaired too.
When I get a non-working device, I would much rather have al lthe
defective parts included. It's a lot easier to repair some PCB or other
than to track down a spare.
-tony
1:44 p.m.
jumper setting on these old full bay 5 1/4
floppies to select the drive
ID? Any ideas?
In my Kaypro II, the Tandon M-100 drives use an IC-type jumper for
drive select, not the cable. Remember to swap the terminating
resistor too.
3:23 p.m.
On Tue, 19 Mar 2013, Tony Duell wrote:
WHile I agree that electrically the terminator should
be in the last
deive on the cable (furthest for mthe controller), has anybody ever had a
problem with it being in the 'wrong' drive on a fairly short ribbon cable
(as here)? That is, you ahve one termination resistor pack in the drive
enarest to the cotnrolelr and a 6" or so 'stub' linking to the second
drive.
As I said, electrically it's the wrong thing to do, but I've
(accidentlaly) done it a few times and the machine has had no problems.
Could incorrect termination account for inability to format "360K"
diskettes as "720K"? :-)
It would s'posedly decrease reliability, but ON 5.25" DRIVES, it doesn't
seem to affect it enough to keep it from working.
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin at xenosoft.com
20 Mar
20 Mar
12:56 p.m.
On Tue, 19 Mar 2013, Tony Duell wrote:
No. Assuming you're talking about the normal PC formats of those
capacities, the only differece is the number of cylinders. The have the
same rotational rate, the same data rate and encoding, etc.
Now, incorrect termination may cause ringing or reflections on the cable.
About the only place it is likely to matter is on the data lines (RD and
WD), and thosecarry the same frequencies for PC 360K and PC720K format.
About the onyl way it coudl matter is if the 360K and 720K drives are
different makes and one is more susceptivle to signal line ringing than
the othter.
Incidentally, later PC drives had fixed 1k pull-up resistors on all
inputs, no termination at all. Although it sounds like it should be a
problem, I have 2 such drives on an _external_ cable on a 5160 with no
trouble at all. No termiantio no nteh end of the cable.
I suppsoe a marginal set-up might work at DD (360K, 720L) rates but not
at HD (1.2M, 1.44M) rates. I think you'd really habve to tweak the cable
lengths to get a problem though.
For the pedants : Yes, I know that 1.44M makes no sense at all as a
number of megabytes of storage,. I am using it just as a name here.
-tony
WHile I agree that electrically the terminator
should be in the last
deive on the cable (furthest for mthe controller), has anybody ever had a
problem with it being in the 'wrong' drive on a fairly short ribbon cable
(as here)? That is, you ahve one termination resistor pack in the drive
enarest to the cotnrolelr and a 6" or so 'stub' linking to the second
drive.
As I said, electrically it's the wrong thing to do, but I've
(accidentlaly) done it a few times and the machine has had no problems.
Could incorrect termination account for inability to format "360K"
diskettes as "720K"? :-)
19 Mar
19 Mar
1:40 p.m.
jumper setting
on these old full bay 5 1/4 floppies to select the drive
ID? Any ideas?
YES, there is.
What make and model drive are you using?
Near where the cable attaches, there are jumpers for drive select.
Depending on the brand of drive, it might be break-out DIP, DIP switches,
solder pads, or plug-in jumpers.
IBM PC used the SECOND position of those, (and the Tandon TM100 drive had
break-out DIP) and then played games with twisting parts of the cable.
Thos DIP shunt blocks are not that easy to find. There are at least 2
workarounds, though. One is to fit a DIL header plug into the socket and
solder wires across it for the jumpers you want conncted. The other,
which involves n osolderign at all, is that there are now some quite
small DIP swithces, about the size of a normal DIL IC. Fit one of those
in the socekt and you cna easily make/break the jumper connections.
Others used a plain cable and set the drive select.
Onme advantage of the 'IBM twist' is that the motor-on line for each
drive ended up on a differnet pin at the controlelr end. Thus the dirve
motors could be controlled independantly of each other.
-tony
2:52 p.m.
> IBM PC used the SECOND position of those, (and
the Tandon TM100 drive had
> break-out DIP) and then played games with twisting parts of the cable.
On Tue, 19 Mar 2013, Tony Duell wrote:
Thos DIP shunt blocks are not that easy to find. There
are at least 2
workarounds, though. One is to fit a DIL header plug into the socket and
solder wires across it for the jumpers you want conncted. The other,
which involves n osolderign at all, is that there are now some quite
small DIP swithces, about the size of a normal DIL IC. Fit one of those
in the socekt and you cna easily make/break the jumper connections.
I used a STAPLE (straight out of the red Swingline) on my first one.
I only intended it as a temporary emergency measure to play with the
machine. It's over 30 years now; maybe I should replace the staple with a
proper shunt.
Onme advantage of the 'IBM twist' is that the
motor-on line for each
drive ended up on a differnet pin at the controlelr end. Thus the dirve
motors could be controlled independantly of each other.
Yes, there were good reasons for it, besides the inability of IBM store
personnel to be able to set a switch and terminator.
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin at xenosoft.com
20 Mar
20 Mar
12:50 p.m.
[Punch-through DIP shunts]
I used a STAPLE (straight out of the red Swingline) on
my first one.
I think i did somethling like that years ago.
I have also soldered a jumper wire across an opend bar on one of these
shits to close it again. I know the TRS-80 TechRef tells you not to, but
it's held for oeer 10 years now so I am to too worried about it.
-tony
18 Mar
18 Mar
4:57 p.m.
On 3/18/13 5:21 PM, Dave Land wrote:
OK, so I dug the Kaypro II back out of storage now
that I have some
usable floppy disks, thanks to a good friend. :)
Anyway, I found out that the current A: drive wasn't being detected in
the BIOS on my disk creation machine. B: disk works fine. Checked all
connections and made sure everything was seated properly, and still no
luck. So I pulled both drives and inspected everything and then just
swapped positions and re-installed them, hoping that the different
positions on the cable was what selects which drive is which. Well, not
so. The machine still tries to select the original A: drive. Is there a
jumper setting on these old full bay 5 1/4 floppies to select the drive
ID? Any ideas?
LOL, I actually answered my own question. I found a Kaypro tech manual
here:
http://bitsavers.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/pdf/kaypro/1484-D_KayproTechni…
and although it didn't mention jumper settings on the old full-height
Tandon drives, I got the general idea and found the resistor pack and
the jumper 'pack' on both drives and swapped them out. Worked like a
champ. ...and Fred, thanks for the quick reply. Yes, the disk creation
machine is an old Win98/DOS machine, and it seems to recognize the
Kaypro drives. I'll know more later when I try to make some boot floppies.
--
Dave Land
Land Computer Service
Check out my site at http://www.landcomp.net
4295
days inactive
4297
days old
18 comments
7 participants
participants (7)
-
ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
cisin＠xenosoft.com -
fraveydank＠gmail.com -
geneb＠deltasoft.com -
mcguire＠neurotica.com -
terry＠webweavers.co.nz -
xmechanic＠landcomp.net