11 Oct
2012
11 Oct
'12
12:33 a.m.
In my storage unit there keeps bubbling up stuff that author Jerry
Pournelle was sent to review for Byte Magazine. When I sell them, instead
of giving people the actual letters and such (which has Jerry's still
current home address), I give them a censored photocopy. What should I do
with these originals? I've been building a small file of them for the
past few years. Should I just wait until Pournelle dies and then unload
them on Ebay?
--
David Griffith
dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu
A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail?
11 Oct
11 Oct
12:39 a.m.
On 10/11/2012 1:33 AM, David Griffith wrote:
In my storage unit there keeps bubbling up stuff that author Jerry
Pournelle was sent to review for Byte Magazine. When I sell them,
instead of giving people the actual letters and such (which has Jerry's
still current home address), I give them a censored photocopy. What
should I do with these originals? I've been building a small file of
them for the past few years. Should I just wait until Pournelle dies
and then unload them on Ebay?
No, you bump him off first ...
10:09 a.m.
In my storage
unit there keeps bubbling up stuff that author Jerry
Pournelle was sent to review for Byte Magazine. When I sell them,
instead of giving people the actual letters and such (which has Jerry's
still current home address), I give them a censored photocopy. What
should I do with these originals? I've been building a small file of
them for the past few years. Should I just wait until Pournelle dies
and then unload them on Ebay?
No, you bump him off first ... 
11:37 a.m.
I looked at his web site. Almost everything I found in 5 minutes of
searching that site (which is all I wanted to take) said that emails
would be published. David specifically wants a private off line
discussion, not one that is designed to go public, as that web site is
set up to do.
the Chaos Manor site makes Jerry money, or assume it is intended to. If
you pay you see current discussions. If you don't you do not. Anything
emailed to him as in the past is assumed to be part of a question or
discussion if it goes that direction. I recall that he keeps the
computing discussions and so forth fairly separate from the other
activities he has, so may not have a private email address there.
I did find an address that doesn't go into Chaos manner and sent it to
David offline.
Jim
On 10/11/2012 10:09 AM, Fred Cisin wrote:
No, you contact him (you have his address) and send
them to him.
Or maybe he would BUY them? Or is that blackmail?
1:07 p.m.
New subject: Ebay Cray T94
Little rich for my blood but, not something you see every day on ebay
http://www.ebay.com/itm/CRAY-T94-SUPER-COMPUTER-VINTAGE-MAINFRAME-LIQUID-CO…
1:15 p.m.
New subject: Ebay Cray T94
On Thu, Oct 11, 2012 at 4:07 PM, mc68010 <mc68010 at gmail.com> wrote:
Little rich for my blood but, not something you see
every day on ebay
http://www.ebay.com/itm/CRAY-T94-SUPER-COMPUTER-VINTAGE-MAINFRAME-LIQUID-CO…
Wow! And he's local to me! I wonder who he got it from? I wonder what
else he has. Hmmmm.
--
-Jon
Jonathan Katz, Indianapolis, IN.
1:57 p.m.
New subject: Ebay Cray T94
The background of the photos is interesting, looks like custom car
shop. I noted it has spark plug wires on top, and
was next to a carburetor cleaner. I assume it has had a grease job. Is
there any more to the system but this main
bay of hardware?
Jim
On 10/11/2012 1:15 PM, Jonathan Katz wrote:
>
>http://www.ebay.com/itm/CRAY-T94-SUPER-COMPUTER-VINTAGE-MAINFRAME-LIQUID-COOLED-/271079049107
Wow! And he's local to me! I wonder who he got it from? I wonder what
else he has. Hmmmm.
2:03 p.m.
New subject: Ebay Cray T94
On Thu, Oct 11, 2012 at 4:57 PM, jim s <jws at jwsss.com> wrote:
The background of the photos is interesting, looks
like custom car shop. I
noted it has spark plug wires on top, and
was next to a carburetor cleaner. I assume it has had a grease job. Is
there any more to the system but this main
bay of hardware?
From his e-bay user name, location near Indy, and his
other auctions
it looks like he deals in jet engines and has this in a hangar by
the
international airport. I sent him an e-mail to see what other computer
hardware he may have. I'll keep you posted.
2:04 p.m.
New subject: Ebay Cray T94
On Thu, Oct 11, 2012 at 5:03 PM, Jonathan Katz <jon at jonworld.com> wrote:
From his e-bay user name, location near Indy, and his
other auctions
it looks like he deals in jet engines and has this in a hangar by the
international airport. I sent him an e-mail to see what other computer
hardware he may have. I'll keep you posted.
Yes, he also has a vintage Indy race car, Model A Ford, and maybe some
kind of Le Mans car in shrinkwrap in that setup, too. Now I really
want to go visit :)
--
-Jon
Jonathan Katz, Indianapolis, IN.
2:05 p.m.
New subject: Ebay Cray T94
On 10/11/2012 1:57 PM, jim s wrote:
The background of the photos is interesting, looks
like custom car
shop. I noted it has spark plug wires on top, and
was next to a carburetor cleaner. I assume it has had a grease job.
Is there any more to the system but this main
bay of hardware?
Jim
I see vintage race cars. Probably used for engineering simulations once
upon a time maybe ? All the big race teams usually have super computer
level stuff in their engineering departments.
5:27 p.m.
New subject: Ebay Cray T94
On Thu, 11 Oct 2012, mc68010 wrote:
Little rich for my blood but, not something you see
every day on ebay
http://www.ebay.com/itm/CRAY-T94-SUPER-COMPUTER-VINTAGE-MAINFRAME-LIQUID-CO…
What is that at the bottom of the key and switch compartment? Touch-up
paint?
--
David Griffith
dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu
A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail?
8:07 p.m.
New subject: Ebay Cray T94
On 10/11/2012 5:27 PM, David Griffith wrote:
What is that at the bottom of the key and switch compartment? Touch-up
paint?
After looking at the other photos of the internals, I don't think that
skid is up to the task. Since they cracked one of the
hatches for illustration, makes me wonder what sort of juice is inside
to cool it with. If freon is it still legal?
As to whether it is touchup paint, I would also suspect it might be some
sort of treatment for the coolant, but
not sure what that is. Certainly possible it is what you say.
that is a lot of aluminum though a wonder a crappy skid like that hasn't
given out.
8:48 p.m.
New subject: Ebay Cray T94
On 10/11/2012 5:27 PM, David Griffith wrote:
On Thu, 11 Oct 2012, mc68010 wrote:
Given it being a custom car shop I would bet every inch of metal was
repainted and you are probably right about what that is. It is what they
do. I kinda doubt Cray put bottles of paint anywhere inside their machines.
Little rich for my blood but, not something you
see every day on ebay
http://www.ebay.com/itm/CRAY-T94-SUPER-COMPUTER-VINTAGE-MAINFRAME-LIQUID-CO…
What is that at the bottom of the key and switch compartment? Touch-up
paint?
8:59 p.m.
New subject: Ebay Cray T94
mc68010 wrote:
I kinda doubt Cray put bottles of paint anywhere
inside their machines.
I wouldn't bet any real money on it. On earlier machines, but perhaps
not something as recent as a T9x, they would sell you the computer
painted any color you wanted, so I wouldn't have been the least bit
surprised if there was somewhere in one of the cabinets where some spare
paint was stored for field touch-up.
9:29 p.m.
New subject: Ebay Cray T94
On 10/11/2012 8:59 PM, Eric Smith wrote:
mc68010 wrote:
I am sure there was in the tech's tool box. The guy that came with the
support contract. If that's original touch up paint I bet some someone
at Cray stuck it there to make his job easier. It looks odd though.
Everything seems to shiny too. I wouldn't be surprised to learn it had
all been repainted. Sticking a bottle of touch up paint in cars is what
the custom cars usually do. Anyone else seen Cray touch up paint ? Seems
like we would have seen a bottle on ebay by now.
I kinda doubt Cray put bottles of paint anywhere
inside their machines.
I wouldn't bet any real money on it. On earlier machines, but perhaps
not something as recent as a T9x, they would sell you the computer
painted any color you wanted, so I wouldn't have been the least bit
surprised if there was somewhere in one of the cabinets where some
spare paint was stored for field touch-up.
10:22 p.m.
New subject: Ebay Cray T94
On 10/11/2012 09:29 PM, mc68010 wrote:
I am sure there was in the tech's tool box. The
guy that came with the
support contract. If that's original touch up paint I bet some someone
at Cray stuck it there to make his job easier. It looks odd though.
Everything seems to shiny too. I wouldn't be surprised to learn it had
all been repainted. Sticking a bottle of touch up paint in cars is what
the custom cars usually do. Anyone else seen Cray touch up paint ? Seems
like we would have seen a bottle on ebay by now.
My wife was looking over my shoulder when I brought the eBay listing for
the T94 up. She said "only $12K for that?" I replied that if what one
was after was a running T94, that $12K was merely the tip of the iceberg.
Consider the power supplies, cooling, peripherals and the probability
that the darned thing doesn't work (where does one find parts, even for
a 90's era Cray), one could plunk down a fair amount of cash to get this
piece of iron running.
--Chuck
10:40 p.m.
New subject: Ebay Cray T94
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chuck Guzis" <cclist at sydex.com>
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Friday, October 12, 2012 1:22 AM
Subject: Re: Ebay Cray T94
Consider the power supplies, cooling, peripherals and
the probability that
the darned thing doesn't work (where does one find parts, even for a 90's
era Cray), one could plunk down a fair amount of cash to get this piece of
iron running.
--Chuck
Power supply requirements are a bit out there for home based collectors, and
what software would you run on it (I assume everything was custom per
order)?
10:52 p.m.
New subject: Ebay Cray T94
On 10/12/2012 01:40 AM, TeoZ wrote:
and what software would you run on it (I assume
everything was custom
per order)?
This is a UNIX machine, with compilers. There's no "app store" for
Crays. ;) Supercomputer installations generally write their own stuff
for their own applications, but there are "standard" software packages
(CFD, FEM, etc) for more common uses. The Cray Scientific Library is a
vast collection of highly optimized math routines which make a nice toolbox.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
12 Oct
12 Oct
12:14 a.m.
New subject: Ebay Cray T94
TeoZ wrote:
and what software would you run on it
Anything written in Fortran. Some other languages were supported, but
the majority of customers used them for Fortran.
(I assume everything was custom per order)?
The system software (OS, compilers, etc.) certainly wasn't. Hopefully
the software licenses are transferable with the hardware, but having
never looked at Cray licenses, I have no idea.
There even was third-party off-the-shelf application software for these
things. For instance, plastic mold flow simulation, which is the main
thing Apple's Cray was used for (but not what it was originally
purchased for).
4:35 a.m.
New subject: Ebay Cray T94
On 10/12/2012 3:14 AM, Eric Smith wrote:
TeoZ wrote:
although this is third hand with no personal experience, there was
supposedly a significant amount of highly proprietary code developed by
the oil companies for analysis of seismic data in their search for
crude. ( I HAVE seen government acquired lists of Cray systems and
where they were installed that showed the oil companies as the second
largest consumer of the systems so it makes sense.)
Steve Shumaker
steve
and what software would you run on it
Anything written in Fortran. Some other languages were supported, but
the majority of customers used them for Fortran.
(I assume everything was custom per order)?
The system software (OS, compilers, etc.) certainly wasn't. Hopefully
the software licenses are transferable with the hardware, but having
never looked at Cray licenses, I have no idea.
There even was third-party off-the-shelf application software for
these things. For instance, plastic mold flow simulation, which is
the main thing Apple's Cray was used for (but not what it was
originally purchased for).
11:04 a.m.
New subject: Ebay Cray T94
On 10/12/2012 03:14 AM, Eric Smith wrote:
C and C++ are well-supported. C++ has gained lots of ground in the
HPC world over the past 10-15 years, for all but the most
performance-sensitive stuff. Probably due to the fact that "summer
slaves" all know C++ and rarely know "old" stuff like FORTRAN...even if
they're using "new" FORTRAN.
Unicos uses FlexLM from release 10 onwards. Cray negotiates
software/OS licenses individually, though there are some "boilerplate"
ones for simpler setups.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
and what
software would you run on it
Anything written in Fortran. Some other languages were supported, but
the majority of customers used them for Fortran. (I assume
everything was custom per order)?
The system software (OS, compilers, etc.) certainly wasn't. Hopefully
the software licenses are transferable with the hardware, but having
never looked at Cray licenses, I have no idea.
11 Oct
11 Oct
10:50 p.m.
New subject: Ebay Cray T94
On 10/12/2012 01:22 AM, Chuck Guzis wrote:
The cooling is the tough part for a T94, otherwise it's not too bad.
I've gotten several models of Cray running. They are complicated
machines, but they present a nice challenge with an excellent payoff.
The uniprocessor variant of the T90 is air-cooled. I wonder if it's
possible to downgrade the cooling of the multiprocessor T94.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
I am sure
there was in the tech's tool box. The guy that came with the
support contract. If that's original touch up paint I bet some someone
at Cray stuck it there to make his job easier. It looks odd though.
Everything seems to shiny too. I wouldn't be surprised to learn it had
all been repainted. Sticking a bottle of touch up paint in cars is what
the custom cars usually do. Anyone else seen Cray touch up paint ? Seems
like we would have seen a bottle on ebay by now.
My wife was looking over my shoulder when I brought the eBay listing for
the T94 up. She said "only $12K for that?" I replied that if what one
was after was a running T94, that $12K was merely the tip of the iceberg.
Consider the power supplies, cooling, peripherals and the probability
that the darned thing doesn't work (where does one find parts, even for
a 90's era Cray), one could plunk down a fair amount of cash to get this
piece of iron running. 
12 Oct
12 Oct
11:10 a.m.
New subject: Ebay Cray T94
Dave McGuire [mailto:mcguire at neurotica.com] wrote:
The cooling is the tough part for a T94,
The nameplate in the one photo says 100A @ 340VDC, twice (I assume that's
two separate supplies for two CPUs). Is that really right? That's 68kW!!
In a box that size??? No wonder it's water cooled. Your average household
water heater is only about 1/10th that; this thing would make enough hot
water for a small apartment building...
Bob Armstrong
11:30 a.m.
New subject: Ebay Cray T94
On 10/12/2012 02:10 PM, Bob Armstrong wrote:
Well, it's a nameplate rating, so figure 1/3 to 1/2 of that at most.
But still!
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
Dave McGuire
[mailto:mcguire at neurotica.com] wrote:
The cooling is the tough part for a T94,
The nameplate in the one photo says 100A @ 340VDC, twice (I assume that's
two separate supplies for two CPUs). Is that really right? That's 68kW!!
In a box that size??? No wonder it's water cooled. Your average household
water heater is only about 1/10th that; this thing would make enough hot
water for a small apartment building...
12:09 a.m.
New subject: Ebay Cray T94
mc68010 wrote:
kinda doubt Cray put bottles of paint anywhere inside
their machines.
I wrote:
I wouldn't bet any real money on it. On earlier
machines, but perhaps
not something as recent as a T9x, they would sell you the computer
painted any color you wanted, so I wouldn't have been the least bit
surprised if there was somewhere in one of the cabinets where some
spare paint was stored for field touch-up.
mc68010 wrote:
I am sure there was in the tech's tool box.
My point was that since the color was specific to the customer, and it
was ANY color the customer wanted, not just a few from a catalog, it
*wouldn't* be in the tech's toolbox. It would be with the machine.
However, if the T9x wasn't offered in custom colors, then it would be
less likely to be stored in the machine.
3:29 a.m.
New subject: Ebay Cray T94
On Thursday (10/11/2012 at 08:48PM -0700), mc68010 wrote:
On 10/11/2012 5:27 PM, David Griffith wrote:
No... but in the early days they did put a six pack of Leinies in
machines they shipped. Not for the customer but for the SEs installing
the machine :-)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacob_Leinenkugel_Brewing_Company
--
Chris Elmquist
On Thu, 11 Oct 2012, mc68010 wrote:
Given it being a custom car shop I would bet every inch of metal was
repainted and you are probably right about what that is. It is what
they do. I kinda doubt Cray put bottles of paint anywhere inside
their machines. Little rich for my blood but, not something you
see every day on ebay
http://www.ebay.com/itm/CRAY-T94-SUPER-COMPUTER-VINTAGE-MAINFRAME-LIQUID-CO…
What is that at the bottom of the key and switch compartment?
Touch-up paint?
4458
days inactive
4459
days old
27 comments
14 participants
participants (14)
-
bfranchuk＠jetnet.ab.ca -
bob＠jfcl.com -
cclist＠sydex.com -
chrise＠pobox.com -
cisin＠xenosoft.com -
dgriffi＠cs.csubak.edu -
eric＠brouhaha.com -
jon＠jonworld.com -
jws＠jwsss.com -
mc68010＠gmail.com -
mcguire＠neurotica.com -
shumaker＠att.net -
tdk.knight＠gmail.com -
teoz＠neo.rr.com