28 Dec
2011
28 Dec
'11
12:25 p.m.
WHAT brand and model computer are you talking about?
On Tue, 27 Dec 2011, Enrico Lazzerini wrote:
Well this is all i know:
8"
STAT d:DSK:
9600 r: 128 Byte Record Capacity
1200 k: Kilobyte Drive Capacity
128 d: 32 Byte Directory Entries
128 c: Checked Directory Entries
128 e: Records/ Extent
16 b: Records/ Block
64 s: Sectors/ Track
2 t: Reserved Tracks
2 SIDES
This is that I calculate:
BEGIN SCO2 (1024 bytes/sector) - DSDD 8"
DENSITY MFM ,HIGH
1200K disk capacity is close to maximum for an 8" diskette.
It is what you expect from 8" DSDD. "High" would be incorrect usage, but
from a 5.25" perspective, it fits.
CYLINDERS 77 SIDES 1 SECTORS 8,1024
NO.
You can not get 1200K disk capacity from single sided.
SIDE1 0 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9
SIDE2 0 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9
Those are 10 sectors per side. You said 8
Are you sure that that is the sector sequence?
Here what 22disk tell me:
http://elazzerini.interfree.it/Foto2982.jpg
Where I'm wrong?
1) Instead of transcribing some text, you sent a URL to a picture that is
more than 2 MEGAbytes. (a photograph of your screen?)
THANK YOU for sending the URL instead of attaching it!
A) Not everybody reads their mail in a web browser. Sending a URL
requires cut and paste to get it TO the web browser.
B) Believe it or not, some of us use dial-up! 2M takes too long.
C) Surely that file could be MUCH smaller. Thats a kilobyte for
each character on the screen.
Was it an error message? That would only call for a few lines of text.
Was it a scrambled display, such as non-ASCII characters in filenames?
2) You are posting asking for technical support for an unregistered copy
of a program on a forum where the author is an active participant! If you
REGISTER the program, then he will provide support, maybe even an updated
copy of the program, etc. (It may have additional formats now!)
You didn't tell us the name of the format.
You didn't tell us the form of your calculations. Were they a wild
guess? or did you look at sectors on the disk to determine them?
What "side-pattern" is it? Does it alternate sides before incrementing
cylinder, or does it increment cylinder first, and use the first side
before starting on the second? Does it then go UP the second side, or
DOWN?
You didn't provide us with hex dumps of the directory sectors. NO, DO NOT
SEND US MORE PHOTOGRAPHS! If the problem is in the directory, then
let's see THAT! It's 32 bytes per directory entry/extent - depending on
what the problem is, it might not take more than a few.
28 Dec
28 Dec
4:02 p.m.
2) You are posting asking for technical support for an unregistered copy
of a program on a forum where the author is an active participant! If you
REGISTER the program, then he will provide support, maybe even an updated
copy of the program, etc. (It may have additional formats now!)
...who has made it plain that he has no interest in letting people know
that it's even POSSIBLE to register....
g.
--
Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007
http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.
http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home.
Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies.
ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment
A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes.
http://www.scarletdme.org - Get it _today_!
Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical
minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which
holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd
by the clean end.
4:25 p.m.
On Wed, 28 Dec 2011, Chuck Guzis wrote:
On 28 Dec 2011 at 16:02, Gene Buckle wrote:
How? Does the phone number still work that's listed in the shareware
version (if there even is one listed). How's he supposed to know what
website to go to in order to find a contact address? Even if he guesses
right, there's NO indication whatsoever that there is still a tie between
the sydex.com site and the 22disk shareware application.
Either put up a notice saying that the software is still registerable, or
quit bitching when people stumble around in the dark.
g.
--
Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007
http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.
http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home.
Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies.
ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment
A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes.
http://www.scarletdme.org - Get it _today_!
Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical
minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which
holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd
by the clean end.
...who has made it plain that he has no interest
in letting people
know that it's even POSSIBLE to register....
Doesn't anyone think it's odd that the OP didn't even attempt to
CONTACT Sydex? 
4:46 p.m.
On 28 Dec 2011 at 16:25, Gene Buckle wrote:
How? Does the phone number still work that's
listed in the shareware
version (if there even is one listed). How's he supposed to know what
website to go to in order to find a contact address? Even if he
guesses right, there's NO indication whatsoever that there is still a
tie between the sydex.com site and the 22disk shareware application.
How do you figure?
Our address and phone number, as well as email (when the internet
came out) is present in the documentation, README, and the "reminder"
screen. Since 1990, our phone number and mailing address hasn't
changed; since 1996 or thereabouts (I can check), our email hasn't
changed. By now the OP should have figured out the connection,
anyway.
Or perhaps one of the many people on this list who used 22Disk and
have registered copies will share the information with him...
--Chuck
9:39 p.m.
Here what
22disk tell me:
http://elazzerini.interfree.it/Foto2982.jpg
Where I'm wrong?
1) Instead of transcribing some text, you sent a URL to a
picture
that is more than 2 MEGAbytes. (a photograph of your screen?) C) Surely that file could be MUCH smaller.
It could. The picture is 3264x2448 pixels and shows not only the
screen but the monitor's frame, a camera (or something like it) mounted
on top of the monitor, and assorted miscellany in background - the only
thing there that looks easily readable to me is the name "BON JOVI",
but there are fragments of other things; none of the lot looks to me
likely to be relevant to the thread.
There is approximately no important loss of legibility in scaling it
down by a factor of 4 in each dimension.
A picture taken square-on without flash would have been substantially
easier to read - hint, hint, for anyone taking such pictures. (If your
camera doesn't know how to shut off flash, put something opaque in
front of the flash - there's no point using flash when taking a picture
of something self-luminant but not reflective.)
/~\ The ASCII Mouse
\ / Ribbon Campaign
X Against HTML mouse at rodents-montreal.org
/ \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B
10:24 p.m.
On Thu, 29 Dec 2011, Mouse wrote:
Yes. (Well, not _my_ screen, but I can easily handle
fetching a
two-plus-meg picture and looking at it.)
Here's a transcription of the display. This is a ten-finger copy and
Thanks!
| CDIR Ver. 1.44-Oct 21 1996, Copyright 1996, Sydex.
All rights re*****d.
| THIS IS AN UNREGIETERED COPY--SEE DOCUMENTATION FOR DETAILS.
| Fabio Marverti Format
| * WARNING! * Out-of-range block number in directory.
| -- You may be using the wrong disk definition
| Block: 5000, FILE: PROG.COM
| A0:B A0:COPIA.COM A0:EXEC.COM A0:FCOPY.COM
| A0:MAGLIA.HLP A0:MINSTALL.DAT A0:PACK.COM A0:PIP.COM
| A0:PROG.COM A0:PROG.COM A0:PROG.COM A0:PROVA1.MMM
| A0:PROVA1.MMM A0:PROVA1.MMM A0:STAT.COM A0:VERDSK.COM
| 1062K free on drive A:
I'm not familiar with Fabio Marverti.
If that's the machine that the STAT DSK: was done on, then it should have
600 blocks.
Before we speculate much further, we need an explanation for why he said
that it is 1 sided, and why he siad that the 8 sectors are numbered 0 - 9
31 Dec
31 Dec
4:07 p.m.
Fred Cisin wrote:
WHAT brand and model computer are you talking about?
On Tue, 27 Dec 2011, Enrico Lazzerini wrote:
The DEC RX02 8" SSDD floppy held 988 data blocks of 512 bytes or
505,856 bytes. While DEC never supported the RX03, the extra code
was included in V04.00 of RT-11, but was removed in V05.00 of RT-11.
The DSD 880/30 had a single functional RX03 floppy drive which could
be used as equivalent to the RX02 drive under RT-11. The RX03 drive
supported the use of a DSDD 8" floppy with 1976 data blocks of
512 bytes or 1,011,712 bytes.
Under DSDD, I believe that each sector was 256 bytes and that
2 sectors were required for each block. The interleave was every
other sector to allow the silo in the controller to be unloaded into
the user buffer. Unfortunately, the DEC RX02 Qbus controller
never supported 22 bit user buffer addresses. However, it was
possible to have a bounce buffer available to the device driver
which could hold the contents of the silo after which the bounce
buffer could be transferred to the user buffer while the silo was
being filled again - during read operations of course.
I presume that larger sectors with fewer inter sector gaps would
have allowed higher capacity. However, the DEC RX02 controllers
had silos of 256 bytes which required the sectors to be the same size.
Well this is all i know:
8"
STAT d:DSK:
9600 r: 128 Byte Record Capacity
1200 k: Kilobyte Drive Capacity
128 d: 32 Byte Directory Entries
128 c: Checked Directory Entries
128 e: Records/ Extent
16 b: Records/ Block
64 s: Sectors/ Track
2 t: Reserved Tracks
2 SIDES
This is that I calculate:
BEGIN SCO2 (1024 bytes/sector) - DSDD 8"
DENSITY MFM ,HIGH
1200K disk capacity is close to maximum for an 8" diskette.
It is what you expect from 8" DSDD. "High" would be incorrect usage, but
from a 5.25" perspective, it fits.
CYLINDERS 77 SIDES 1 SECTORS 8,1024
NO.
You can not get 1200K disk capacity from single sided.
SIDE1 0 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9
SIDE2 0 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9
Those are 10 sectors per side. You said 8
Are you sure that that is the sector sequence?
Here what 22disk tell me:
http://elazzerini.interfree.it/Foto2982.jpg
Where I'm wrong?
1) Instead of transcribing some text, you sent a URL to a picture that is
more than 2 MEGAbytes. (a photograph of your screen?)
THANK YOU for sending the URL instead of attaching it!
A) Not everybody reads their mail in a web browser. Sending a URL
requires cut and paste to get it TO the web browser.
B) Believe it or not, some of us use dial-up! 2M takes too long.
C) Surely that file could be MUCH smaller. Thats a kilobyte for
each character on the screen.
Was it an error message? That would only call for a few lines of text.
Was it a scrambled display, such as non-ASCII characters in filenames?
2) You are posting asking for technical support for an unregistered copy
of a program on a forum where the author is an active participant! If you
REGISTER the program, then he will provide support, maybe even an updated
copy of the program, etc. (It may have additional formats now!)
You didn't tell us the name of the format.
You didn't tell us the form of your calculations. Were they a wild
guess? or did you look at sectors on the disk to determine them?
What "side-pattern" is it? Does it alternate sides before incrementing
cylinder, or does it increment cylinder first, and use the first side
before starting on the second? Does it then go UP the second side, or
DOWN?
You didn't provide us with hex dumps of the directory sectors. NO, DO NOT
SEND US MORE PHOTOGRAPHS! If the problem is in the directory, then
let's see THAT! It's 32 bytes per directory entry/extent - depending on
what the problem is, it might not take more than a few.
2 Jan
2 Jan
1:59 p.m.
On 12/31/2011 07:07 PM, Jerome H. Fine wrote:
SSSD 8" was RX01, RX02 Drives could read and write it b ut RX02 format
was M2FM and not compatable with anything else save for DSD and some
Plessy cards.
RX03 was Two sided RX01 but by time DEC arrived there they decide on the
5.25 80 track single sided (RX50) and later RX33(two sides 800kb and 1.2mb)
and the RQDX controller.
There was also RX05 (basically the PDT11 RX01 format but different logic
based on FDC chip) and there was RX06 a single drive RX01 for VAX780.
Fred Cisin
wrote:
WHAT brand and model computer are you talking
about?
On Tue, 27 Dec 2011, Enrico Lazzerini wrote:
The DEC RX02 8" SSDD floppy held 988 data blocks of 512 bytes or
505,856 bytes. While DEC never supported the RX03, the extra code
was included in V04.00 of RT-11, but was removed in V05.00 of RT-11.
Well this is all i know:
8"
STAT d:DSK:
9600 r: 128 Byte Record Capacity
1200 k: Kilobyte Drive Capacity
128 d: 32 Byte Directory Entries
128 c: Checked Directory Entries
128 e: Records/ Extent
16 b: Records/ Block
64 s: Sectors/ Track
2 t: Reserved Tracks
2 SIDES
This is that I calculate:
BEGIN SCO2 (1024 bytes/sector) - DSDD 8"
DENSITY MFM ,HIGH
1200K disk capacity is close to maximum for an 8" diskette.
It is what you expect from 8" DSDD. "High" would be incorrect usage,
but
from a 5.25" perspective, it fits.
The DSD 880/30 had a single functional RX03 floppy
drive which could
be used as equivalent to the RX02 drive under RT-11. The RX03 drive
supported the use of a DSDD 8" floppy with 1976 data blocks of
512 bytes or 1,011,712 bytes.
Under DSDD, I believe that each sector was 256 bytes and that
2 sectors were required for each block. The interleave was every
other sector to allow the silo in the controller to be unloaded into
the user buffer. Unfortunately, the DEC RX02 Qbus controller
never supported 22 bit user buffer addresses. However, it was
possible to have a bounce buffer available to the device driver
which could hold the contents of the silo after which the bounce
buffer could be transferred to the user buffer while the silo was
being filled again - during read operations of course.
The DSD880 did have a Q22 controller as did the DEC RX02(RXV21).
They came later.
I presume that larger sectors with fewer inter sector
gaps would
have allowed higher capacity. However, the DEC RX02 controllers
had silos of 256 bytes which required the sectors to be the same size.
Yep. It was designed far enough back that the 2900 based but slice CPU
didn't have enough bits for addressing more and the rice of static ram
was still a factor.
I have a few Qbus DEC systems both PDP11 and VAX.
Allison
CYLINDERS 77 SIDES 1 SECTORS 8,1024
NO.
You can not get 1200K disk capacity from single sided.
SIDE1 0 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9
SIDE2 0 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9
Those are 10 sectors per side. You said 8
Are you sure that that is the sector sequence?
Here what 22disk tell me:
http://elazzerini.interfree.it/Foto2982.jpg
Where I'm wrong?
1) Instead of transcribing some text, you sent a URL to a picture
that is
more than 2 MEGAbytes. (a photograph of your screen?)
THANK YOU for sending the URL instead of attaching it!
A) Not everybody reads their mail in a web browser. Sending a URL
requires cut and paste to get it TO the web browser.
B) Believe it or not, some of us use dial-up! 2M takes too long.
C) Surely that file could be MUCH smaller. Thats a kilobyte for
each character on the screen.
Was it an error message? That would only call for a few lines of text.
Was it a scrambled display, such as non-ASCII characters in filenames?
2) You are posting asking for technical support for an unregistered copy
of a program on a forum where the author is an active participant!
If you
REGISTER the program, then he will provide support, maybe even an
updated
copy of the program, etc. (It may have additional formats now!)
You didn't tell us the name of the format.
You didn't tell us the form of your calculations. Were they a wild
guess? or did you look at sectors on the disk to determine them?
What "side-pattern" is it? Does it alternate sides before incrementing
cylinder, or does it increment cylinder first, and use the first side
before starting on the second? Does it then go UP the second side, or
DOWN?
You didn't provide us with hex dumps of the directory sectors. NO,
DO NOT
SEND US MORE PHOTOGRAPHS! If the problem is in the directory, then
let's see THAT! It's 32 bytes per directory entry/extent -
depending on
what the problem is, it might not take more than a few.
4743
days inactive
4748
days old
8 comments
6 participants
participants (6)
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ajp166＠verizon.net -
cclist＠sydex.com -
cisin＠xenosoft.com -
geneb＠deltasoft.com -
jhfinedp3k＠compsys.to -
mouse＠Rodents-Montreal.ORG