13 Jun
1998
13 Jun
'98
2:53 a.m.
I got a apollo 4500.
It has a 68030 inside, and a 700-someodd meg MFM (?) harddisk.
I have no idea what it runs. This one has a SummaSketch pad with it.
It was used for CAD stuff.
What's it run?
The problem with it is, the video card appears to have died.
WHen I power the machine on (It has a VERY LARGE [21"] RGB monitor. Any
chance of me connecting it to a PC? It has 3 plugs, R G B, and expects
sync on green) and the monitor, I get garbage. The garbage is the same almost
every time. There is 3 patterns. The first one is just garbage, the second one
is the same garbage only dimmer, and the third is a light blue blank screen.
All of them are light blue colored.
The summasketch puck is also wrecked, someone's jerked the MMJ plug off the end.
But I can get another one of those.
There is a switch in the back (Next to the reset (?) button) than, when
pressed, activates a 4-LED indication inside the case.
When I start the machine, it flickers around, and stops at 1 on, 2 3 and 4
blinking. Is this a failure code? What's this switch for?
Am I correct in my assumption? (Dead video)
I've already pushed all the socketed chips in as far as they'll go.
That didn't help.
I also removed the video card (It has no socketed chips) and reseated it.
This also has a network adapter, labled DOMAIN RING.
What wire does that expect?
I'm guessing it's not Ethernet...
Oh, the label on the front says APOLLO DOMAIN 4500.
FOrgot that :)
-------
13 Jun
13 Jun
10:32 a.m.
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text
Size: 1676 bytes
Desc: not available
Url :
http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980613/e2f08a14/at…
14 Jun
14 Jun
11:17 a.m.
On Sat, 13 Jun 1998, Tony Duell wrote:
If anyone knows anything, could they post to the list,
please (or to
me...) as I picked up a pile of Apollo 4000 bits at a radio rally earlier
this year for not very much money. What I got was 3 motherboards, 3 68040
CPUs, about 100Mbytes RAM (! - I tested the RAM in a friend's machine and
it all seems to work!), a case, 2 PSUs, an external graphics box with an
Intel i860 in it, HPIB cards, cables, etc. No drives or peripherals.
The Apollo DN4000 was a 25 MHz 68020 machine. The HP/Apollo 400 series
(400, 425, 433) were 030/040 machines and came along rather later.
The main differences are that the HP 400s use industry standard 72 pin
RAM, SCSI disks, are much smaller than the Apollo DOMAIN machines, and
can run either Domain/OS or HP/UX prior to 10.0 (9.x was the last to
support 68k processors) depending on the keyboard installed.
Apollo machines proper have ISA bus, proprietary memory cards, ESDI disks
(an Apollo DOMAIN machine cannot boot from a SCSI disk even if it has
one), and cannot run HP/UX at all.
Either DomainOS or HPUX. I've seen a net/freeBSD
port for it as well,
which may be the best option as it's free.
But very incomplete. Only slightly more complete than the port of Plan 9
to NeXT hardware.
ok
r.
11:52 a.m.
The Apollo DN4000 was a 25 MHz 68020 machine. The
HP/Apollo 400 series
(400, 425, 433) were 030/040 machines and came along rather later.
Ahh... Apollos...
I have a DN3500 in the basement(under the table right now
since I setup my radio stuff on the workbench). What I consider to be some
of the strangest computers I have ever seen(with the exception of some
micros[or where they minis?] that were kinda odd, but not like an Apollo).
Apollo machines proper have ISA bus, proprietary memory
cards, ESDI disks
(an Apollo DOMAIN machine cannot boot from a SCSI disk even if it has
one), and cannot run HP/UX at all.
It is ISA, but don't expect PC cards to work
in it. I'm not sure of the
specifics, but I DO know that most PC ISA cards will not work in an Apollo.
As for booting from a SCSI disk, they can. Sort of. Hey, you can boot from
a SCSI tape drive... As for HP/UX, I don't know about any of that. It may
not run the actual OS, but there are some HP/UX-style programs on my
3500... If only I could figure out that damn machine! It's been driving me
crazy ever since I got it... Anyone in the PDX area have a copy of the
Domain/OS 10.4.x tapes I could borrow?
But very incomplete. Only slightly more complete than
the port of Plan 9
to NeXT hardware.
I haven't heard much about other UNIX ports on an Apollo, but
it is being
worked on. I have the URL around here somewhere, I just need to dig it out
and go see how far they are. Speaking of URL's, here are a few Apollo
related sites:
http://www.zepa.net/cgi-bin/apollo-cpus.cgi Apollo hardware info
http://www.zepa.net/apollo/ I guess this is the root for the above... Lots
of info
http://www.auto.tuwien.ac.at/Software/Apollo/perl5/ Perl for Apollo
http://apollo.pictinc.co.jp/apollo/english/ I think this is a software
archive...
http://pegasus.cc.ucf.edu/~nbz32017/Apollo-FAQ.html The Apollo FAQ!
--------------------------------------------------------------
| http://members.tripod.com/~jrollins/index.html - Computers |
| http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/1681/ - Star Trek |
| Orham(a)qth.net list admin KD7BCY |
--------------------------------------------------------------
12:23 p.m.
On Sun, 14 Jun 1998, John Rollins wrote:
since I setup my radio stuff on the workbench). What I
consider to be some
of the strangest computers I have ever seen(with the exception of some
micros[or where they minis?] that were kinda odd, but not like an Apollo).
I would very much agree with this assessment. (:
It is ISA, but don't expect PC cards to work in
it. I'm not sure of the
specifics, but I DO know that most PC ISA cards will not work in an Apollo.
With some exceptions, no PC cards will work. Mainly because of driver
issues (being non-existent and BIOSes hiding actual I/O calls needed to
write the drivers), and the MC68k being byte-backward with respect to the
ix86.
As for booting from a SCSI disk, they can. Sort of.
Hey, you can boot from
a SCSI tape drive...
Yes, it can boot from a SCSI QIC tape, but not from a SCSI disk.
As for HP/UX, I don't know about any of that. It
may not run the actual
OS, but there are some HP/UX-style programs on my 3500...
Thanks to the BSD or SYSV environments you can layer over AEGIS (the real
Domain/OS environment). But many of the internals are nothing like UNIX.
If only I could figure out that damn machine! It's
been driving me
crazy ever since I got it... Anyone in the PDX area have a copy of the
Domain/OS 10.4.x tapes I could borrow?
I know exactly how you feel. I've had a half-operational DN5500 for a year
and a half until just a month ago I got a DN4000 with enough spare parts
(and OS tapes!) to fix it. I've got 10.3, 104, and the 10.4.1 update for
Motorola and 10.4.P for Prism (DN10000) in the Seattle area. As you might
imagine, I'm a bit covetous of my OS tapes, especially as I've not been
able to archive them adequately yet.
The OS media situation is compounded by the fact that HP is still
supporting Apollo through 2000.
Email me privately, and we'll see what we may work out.
ok
r.
2:08 p.m.
I know exactly how you feel. I've had a
half-operational DN5500 for a year
and a half until just a month ago I got a DN4000 with enough spare parts
(and OS tapes!) to fix it. I've got 10.3, 104, and the 10.4.1 update for
Motorola and 10.4.P for Prism (DN10000) in the Seattle area. As you might
imagine, I'm a bit covetous of my OS tapes, especially as I've not been
able to archive them adequately yet.
One of these days I have to start working on getting a DN10000 up and
running. I do need disks (stolen from the machine), as well as a tube and
a keyboard.
Did all of the Apollos use a standard tube, or did they differ per family?
What about the keyboards? The 10000s were considerably different from the
Motorola based machines, so I have my doubts...
When all is up and working, I am going to have to pit the Apollo against
the Iris in a graphics contest, and see who wins. Too bad there are no
versions of Doom for either.
William Donzelli
william(a)ans.net
2:17 p.m.
On Sun, 14 Jun 1998, William Donzelli wrote:
Did all of the Apollos use a standard tube, or did
they differ per family?
What about the keyboards? The 10000s were considerably different from the
Motorola based machines, so I have my doubts...
There were three families: 1024x768 @ 60 Hz, 1024x768 @ 72 Hz, and
1280x1024 (possibly both at 60 and 72 Hz, making four families)
I'd have to check to find out which the 40 and 80 plane DVS video used.
I can't answer to the keyboards, but I suspect it was identical to all the
rest. The DOMAIN keyboard remained unchanged all the way up from the DN100
with the exception of three keys, and even so they were all compatible
with each other. I can't say that I'd be willing to bet that the DN10k was
any different in that regard.
ok
r.
noon
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text
Size: 1869 bytes
Desc: not available
Url :
http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980615/a8a7f46e/at…
12:27 p.m.
On Mon, 15 Jun 1998, Tony Duell wrote:
Mine doesn't!. The RAM cards are _very_ custom and
plug into 0.1" header
connectors, not SIMM sockets.
My bad. I've never used a 400 and thought I'd vaguely recalled hearing
that they used 72 pin SIMMs. They sound identical to the DN-series RAM
cards, then.
Yes, standard SCSI disks. But my 425 is a larger box
than my DN3500, I
think...
Hmm. It seems like the 400-series I saw was about half as tall l (in a
desktop orientation) and otherwise similar in size to my DN5500 (which
started out life as a DN3500)
If I need the Apollo-style one, can I use the one from
the DN3500?
Yes.
The 425 motherboard has a single 16 bit ISA connector
on the side. It's a
very cut-down bus, and AFAIK only the Domain Ring card was supported there.
That is correct.
ok
r.
12:36 p.m.
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text
Size: 1278 bytes
Desc: not available
Url :
http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980615/ba75c6e5/at…
1:38 p.m.
I think it depends on the machine. My DN3500 is about
PC/AT sized. My
425 is a less tall, but takes up more desk area.
Hmm... I dunno, I think the DN3500
case is a bit larger than a normal PC/AT
case... And I DEFINITLEY know that a PC motherboard will NOT fit in there!
I tried... Although if you're in the mood for some serious chopping, you
can cut out the back panel, replace the connector from the PS, add some new
standoffs(and cut off some of the old), and maybe a few other things and it
MIGHT work. But I'm certianly not in the mood to start in on my spare 3500
chassis... BTW, computer boards can be very nasty when you try to desolder
them... I tried that on my spare 3500(didn't have anything but an extra
disk and MB in it, the FPU went to my upgraded Mac SE), and I didn't even
get ONE part out, just a face full of PCB fumes(whatever those boards are
made out of STINKS!). Oh well... One other thing I somehow forgot. Those
things are HEAVY! I'd guess 40-50lbs for the CPU and another 50lbs for the
15" or so monitor(amazing how both weight and size have changed, the 15" in
front of me know even fits speakers in and weighs less...). Well, I need to
get going, I'm going nuts(as will anyone that tries to build radio
transceivers and spectrum analyzers without knowing anything about them)...
:-)
--------------------------------------------------------------
| http://members.tripod.com/~jrollins/index.html - Computers |
| http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/1681/ - Star Trek |
| Orham(a)qth.net list admin KD7BCY |
--------------------------------------------------------------
15 Jun
15 Jun
5:24 a.m.
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text
Size: 2231 bytes
Desc: not available
Url :
http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980615/587e6de1/at…
14 Jun
14 Jun
11:07 a.m.
On Sat, 13 Jun 1998, Daniel A. Seagraves wrote:
It has a 68030 inside, and a 700-someodd meg MFM (?)
harddisk.
33 MHz 68030, 760 MB ESDI disk. That's good, as it also means you've got
the WD7000-ASE 'Three-way Peripheral Controller' (SCSI, ESDI, and floppy).
I have no idea what it runs. This one has a
SummaSketch pad with it.
It was used for CAD stuff.
Mentor Graphics sold a lot of software for Apollos.
What's it run?
Domain/OS 10.x most likely.
WHen I power the machine on (It has a VERY LARGE
[21"] RGB monitor. Any
chance of me connecting it to a PC?
Slim. IMO, not worth the effort as the 8000-series monitors are uniformly
poor.
There is 3 patterns. The first one is just garbage,
the second one is
the same garbage only dimmer, and the third is a light blue blank
screen. All of them are light blue colored.
Sounds like the power-on graphics self test, except for the blue colour.
What is the model number on the graphics card?
There is a switch in the back (Next to the reset (?)
button) than, when
pressed, activates a 4-LED indication inside the case.
When I start the machine, it flickers around, and stops at 1 on, 2 3 and 4
blinking. Is this a failure code? What's this switch for?
That switch, which is next to the reset button, is the 'service mode'
switch. Flip it and reset, you come up to a mnemonic debugger instead of
the normal self-tests and OS boot.
Are the four LEDs on the front panel or on the motherboard? The four LEDs
on the front panel indicate Power (pwr), domain ring activity (A & B),
disk activity (C) and OS running/heartbeat (D). I have somewhere a list of
motherboard LED diagnostic codes, but there're more than four LEDs on the
MB.
This also has a network adapter, labled DOMAIN RING.
What wire does that expect?
I'm guessing it's not Ethernet...
It's not. It expects Apollo Token Ring (not the same as IBM TR). It looks
something like BNC ethernet except it's ring topology.
3:24 p.m.
[Patterns for video card]
Really? How long's the patterns supposed to stay there? I get one of the
three at random when I power it on. I'm not sure of the model #.
[Where's the LEDs?]
In the bottom-left of the motherboard (Assuming you're sitting with it
in your lap, with the back facing away from you.)
-------
3:55 p.m.
On Sun, 14 Jun 1998, Daniel A. Seagraves wrote:
[Patterns for video card]
Really? How long's the patterns supposed to stay there? I get one of the
three at random when I power it on. I'm not sure of the model #.
Pull the card and check for the model number; the patterns should only
stay for a second or so and normally cycle through two or three before
coming up with the power-on self test text.
[Where's the LEDs?]
In the bottom-left of the motherboard (Assuming you're sitting with it
in your lap, with the back facing away from you.)
In your lap? Egad!
I'll see if I can figure out what the LED diagnostic means.
ok
r.
4:40 p.m.
[Pull the card ans look for a model number.]
I'll do that.
I did try powering on without the card, the LED's all flicker when power
is applied, then it sits there.
The pattern does stay about a second, flash blank, them reappear.
Oh, and I didn't actually sit this in my lap, but this is where the LEDs
would be had I sit it in my lap. It's actually on my bedroom floor.
-------
5:34 p.m.
New subject: The GO Lombard Java Connection
I searched Alta Vista to see if there was any info out there about my GO
Lombard prototype, and I hit this interesting book epilogue about how Java
got started. It has almost nothing to do with the GO prototype, but it's
an interesting read for computer history buffs:
http://www.starwave.com/people/naughton/book/examples/epilogue/
-- Doug
15 Jun
15 Jun
10:06 a.m.
[Video card model number?]
All I can find is a part number - 10104.
I have another video card, I'll try it out.
The LEDs on the front says the video was at fault.
-------
9691
days inactive
9693
days old
17 comments
6 participants
participants (6)
-
ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
DSEAGRAV＠toad.xkl.com -
red＠bears.org -
rexstout＠uswest.net -
william＠ans.net -
yowza＠yowza.com