30 Nov
1998
30 Nov
'98
7:01 p.m.
-----Original Message-----
From: R. Stricklin (kjaeros) <red(a)bears.org>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Tuesday, 1 December 1998 16:00
Subject: Re: DG Aviion video
Erk. That's going to make life difficult. Sun mice are $$ but at least you
can
get them. Any ideas where one would obtain a couple of the appropriate
rodentia?
The green connect is labelled "G/MONO" so
I'd be inclined to agree with
you.
Mine are just labelled "R" "G" and "B"
I at least knew that much. (: I was given a fat wodge
of QIC tapes and
DG/UX 5.4R3 at least was included as well as some older versions and
possibly one newer.
Did better than me, I just got the bare boxes, no mice, no monitors, no
keyboards, no docs.
Not surprising; they're an Intel/NT shop now for
the most part. q: How
boring.
How right!
is the same
connector as on a Sun, but not sure if the Sun mouse would
work or not, and I don't have one to try.
Outwardly they are identical. Both are Mouse Systems optical mice
(although the DG mouse doesn't say so). I dismantled the DG mouse and a
spare Sun type-4 mouse to make sure, but the electronics and signalaling
are wildly different. From cord conductor-count alone, I'd say the DG
mouse is quadrature and the Sun mouse is serial. It is the same connector as on a Sun mouse, though.
Trap for the unwary I suppose.
Thanks for the info.
Cheers
Geoff Roberts
Computer Systems Manager
Saint Marks College
Port Pirie South Australia.
My ICQ# is 1970476
Ph. 61-411-623-978 (Mobile)
61-8-8633-0619 (Home)
61-8-8633-8834 (Work-Direct)
61-8-8633-0104 (Fax)
1 Dec
1 Dec
8:50 a.m.
The green
connect is labelled "G/MONO" so I'd be inclined to agree with
you.
Mine are just labelled "R" "G" and "B"
I at least knew that much. (: I was given a fat
wodge of QIC tapes and
DG/UX 5.4R3 at least was included as well as some older versions and
possibly one newer.
Did better than me, I just got the bare boxes, no mice, no monitors, no
keyboards, no docs. 
8:33 p.m.
On Tue, 1 Dec 1998, Geoff Roberts wrote:
I don't supose you happen to know offhand what the resolution and vertical
sync are.. I was unable to get my NEC Multisync 5fge to sync up. Since the
noise was green and not white, there could be something wrong with the
video section. I don't know. The 5fge is the only multisync monitor I have
that supports composite sync on green and has BNC inputs. I did verify
that it was not 1024x768 @ 60Hz by trying it on one of my Apollo monitors.
I'm going to see if anything is happening on either of the serial ports in
the meanwhile.
The green
connect is labelled "G/MONO" so I'd be inclined to agree with
you.
Mine are just labelled "R" "G" and "B" Erk. That's going to make life difficult. Sun
mice are $$ but at
least you can get them. Any ideas where one would obtain a couple of
the appropriate rodentia?
If it's truly a quadrature mouse, I'm sure a Logitech Bus mouse or similar
could be kludged up to work.
ok
r.
10:10 p.m.
New subject: Any collectors in Minneapolis?
I constantly drool over stuff that's in the Charles Babbage Institute's
archives, but I don't get to Minneapolis very often (OK, I *never* get to
Minneapolis).
Are there any Minneapolitans (?) out there willing to copy a few goodies
from their archives? I'd pay for copying,
shipping, gas, and probably a
coupla bucks more. There's enough interesting
stuff there that I'm sure a
small business could be established by selling reprints to collectors and
historians (besides, what else are you going to do when it's snowing
out?).
-- Doug
2 Dec
2 Dec
6:25 a.m.
My DG Aviion Monitor is a trinitron GDM-1601. If you look it
up on the net at http://www.nashville.net/~griffin/monitor.html
My monitor shows up at 1024x768 and 1280x1024 (60hz). My monitor
has a 5 bnc connection, but when hooked up to the Aviion, it only
uses RGB. I went to Radio shack and got 3 6' 75 ohm video cables.
They work fine.
However, when I hooked the GDM-1601 up to my PC, the horz was wrong.
I'm not sure why...
Maybe that'll help.
Dean Nelson
-----Original Message-----
From: CLASSICCMP-owner(a)u.washington.edu
[mailto:CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu]On Behalf Of R. Stricklin
(kjaeros)
Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 1998 11:33 PM
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
Subject: Re: DG Aviion video
On Tue, 1 Dec 1998, Geoff Roberts wrote:
I don't supose you happen to know offhand what the resolution and vertical
sync are.. I was unable to get my NEC Multisync 5fge to sync up. Since the
noise was green and not white, there could be something wrong with the
video section. I don't know. The 5fge is the only multisync monitor I have
that supports composite sync on green and has BNC inputs. I did verify
that it was not 1024x768 @ 60Hz by trying it on one of my Apollo monitors.
I'm going to see if anything is happening on either of the serial ports in
the meanwhile.
The green
connect is labelled "G/MONO" so I'd be inclined to agree with
you.
Mine are just labelled "R" "G" and "B" Erk. That's going to make life difficult. Sun
mice are $$ but at
least you can get them. Any ideas where one would obtain a couple of
the appropriate rodentia?
If it's truly a quadrature mouse, I'm sure a Logitech Bus mouse or similar
could be kludged up to work.
ok
r.
11:18 a.m.
On Wed, 2 Dec 1998, R. Stricklin (kjaeros) wrote:
I'm going to see if anything is happening on
either of the serial ports in
the meanwhile.
Ok, I connected the RS232/RS422 port (which I took to be the primary port)
of the Aviion to a serial port on my NeXTcube and got this:
obelix% tip ttyb9600
connected
NVBATLOW
obelix%
which I take to mean the NVRAM battery is low. On a SPARCstation, this is
a catastrophic-but-repairable problem. This is the only thing I see. There
is no obvious battery inside, although there is a socketed RTC chip and
some sort of socketed Toshiba chip with what appears to be a speed rating
(-15) near it.
I can't seem to even get a hardware monitor (not that I know how to
interrupt it to get one or anything).
What's the prognosis?
ok
r.
11:52 a.m.
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12:23 p.m.
On Wed, 2 Dec 1998, Tony Duell wrote:
If the RTC chip is much taller than the other chips on
the mainboard (say
about 3/8" high) then it probably contains an internal battery. Dallas
and Mostek/SGS-Thomson made chips like that.
It is. I forget offhand who made it, though. Would it be powering the
NVRAM, though? On a SPARCstation you actually have to replace the NVRAM
chip itself. I guess it couldn't hurt to try to replace it.
You're supposed to replace the chip when the
battery fails (after about
10 years). I have heard of people carefully slicing the top off the
package and replacing the lithium cell inside, but I've not had to do
this myself - yet.
It isn't inconceivable; the machine was made in the middle of 1991, so
it's probably about time.
It looks a lot like a standard part. I'll have to try to source one.
Otherwise the battery could be just about anywhere
inside the machine.
There is defintely no obvious battery inside. It'd have to be in one of
the chips. Since it's almost all small 14-18 pin DIPs and RAM chips, I'm
willing to bet the chip containing the battery (if it turns out to be
other than the RTC) should be easy to find.
ok
r.
1:46 p.m.
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12:52 p.m.
New subject: Possible Rescue
Fresh from an Atari 8-bit mailing list. In Binghamton, NY. Note the
restrictions. Naive though they may be, at least his heart is in the
right place. Do not contact me. Use the email address in the quoted note
below.
********************************************************************
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 17:39:18 -0500
From: jmagacs(a)ALTAVISTA.NET
Reply to: INFO-ATARI8(a)SCORE.STANFORD.EDU
To: INFO-ATARI8(a)VM.MARIST.EDU
Subject: This will make some 8-bitter's Christmas Wish come true
I am a formerly-avid 8-bitter who finally moved on to a Power Macintosh
after 14 years of Atari. My wife won't let me keep
my Atari stuff. While I could probably make a little money by selling it
piece-meal, I don't want the hassle. Instead I'd
like to give it for free to a worthy Atari 8-bit user group (do any still
exist?) or a dedicated 8-bit enthusiast.
My only restrictions are:
1. The recipient must take everything. There's too much to ship (15
boxes!) so they have to pick it up in the Binghamton,
NY area (probably using a van).
2. The recipient can not sell anything received from my collection.
Since I gave it away for free, anything the recipient
does not keep must in turn be given away for free. All subsequent
recipients must also abide by this requirement.
The collection of Atari 8-bit stuff includes the following (and more):
1. 5 800 XLs (one NEW in foam). 4 power supplies
2. 1 800/48K (very nice condition) - no power supply
3. 5 1050 disk drives (2 with ICD 1050 doubler upgrade)
4. 2 NEW 1050 drive mechanisms. One non-working 1050 drive mechanism
with an uninstalled timing LED that may fix it.
5. 1 MIO/256K - serial port non-functional. RAM-disk works fine.
6. 1 Taxan monitor with separate chroma/lumina input.
7. 1020 plotter with a BAGFULL of replacement pens.
8. 1030 modem and a Hayes 2400 baud modem.
9. XMM801 dot-matrix printer
10. 2 NEW light pens
11. Animation Station touch-tablet
12. 4 track balls. 2 Atari pro-line joysticks. 2 original Atari
joysticks. Paddle controller. Driving Controller (never
found a game that used it).
13. NEW RT-8 clock cartridge
14. Unassembled SIO2PC kit with software.
15. A HUGE assortment of software. Both productivity (all the First
XLent titles), NewStation, PrintShop, C compilers,
Forth, Atari Macro Assembler, Assembler Editor, all the ICD assemblers
and languages. 2 copies of Sparta DOS X, etc., and
lots of games (including Flight Simulator cart and two scenery disks).
Most are in original packaging. Also a lot of
loose cartridges and three cases of floppies.
16. Lots of books.
17. COMPLETE collection of Antic magazine. ANALOG from early 1985 to
end. COMPUTE from early 1985 to end. Most of Atari
Explorer.
18. Lots of documentation, Xeroxed articles, etc. about Atari 8-bits.
If you're interested in getting all this great stuff subject to the
above-stated restrictions, please email me:
jmagacs(a)altavista.net
*********************
1:31 p.m.
New subject: Possible Rescue
On Wed, 2 Dec 1998, Stephen Dauphin wrote:
Fresh from an Atari 8-bit mailing list. In Binghamton,
NY. Note the
restrictions. Naive though they may be, at least his heart is in the
right place. Do not contact me. Use the email address in the quoted note
below.
Ya, I'll look for the stuff on eBay in a couple of weeks...
3 Dec
3 Dec
5:06 a.m.
New subject: Possible Rescue
Stephen,
Hi, I live in susquehanna, Pa. and would be willing to come pick this stuff
up. Please send me an email to amirault(a)epix.net Thanks, John Amirault. I
am an avid IBM PCjr collector, my brother has an atari system in Casper,
Wyo., I think.
Stephen Dauphin wrote:
Fresh from an Atari 8-bit mailing list. In Binghamton,
NY. Note the
restrictions. Naive though they may be, at least his heart is in the
right place. Do not contact me. Use the email address in the quoted note
below.
********************************************************************
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 17:39:18 -0500
From: jmagacs(a)ALTAVISTA.NET
Reply to: INFO-ATARI8(a)SCORE.STANFORD.EDU
To: INFO-ATARI8(a)VM.MARIST.EDU
Subject: This will make some 8-bitter's Christmas Wish come true
I am a formerly-avid 8-bitter who finally moved on to a Power Macintosh
after 14 years of Atari. My wife won't let me keep
my Atari stuff. While I could probably make a little money by selling it
piece-meal, I don't want the hassle. Instead I'd
like to give it for free to a worthy Atari 8-bit user group (do any still
exist?) or a dedicated 8-bit enthusiast.
My only restrictions are:
1. The recipient must take everything. There's too much to ship (15
boxes!) so they have to pick it up in the Binghamton,
NY area (probably using a van).
2. The recipient can not sell anything received from my collection.
Since I gave it away for free, anything the recipient
does not keep must in turn be given away for free. All subsequent
recipients must also abide by this requirement.
The collection of Atari 8-bit stuff includes the following (and more):
1. 5 800 XLs (one NEW in foam). 4 power supplies
2. 1 800/48K (very nice condition) - no power supply
3. 5 1050 disk drives (2 with ICD 1050 doubler upgrade)
4. 2 NEW 1050 drive mechanisms. One non-working 1050 drive mechanism
with an uninstalled timing LED that may fix it.
5. 1 MIO/256K - serial port non-functional. RAM-disk works fine.
6. 1 Taxan monitor with separate chroma/lumina input.
7. 1020 plotter with a BAGFULL of replacement pens.
8. 1030 modem and a Hayes 2400 baud modem.
9. XMM801 dot-matrix printer
10. 2 NEW light pens
11. Animation Station touch-tablet
12. 4 track balls. 2 Atari pro-line joysticks. 2 original Atari
joysticks. Paddle controller. Driving Controller (never
found a game that used it).
13. NEW RT-8 clock cartridge
14. Unassembled SIO2PC kit with software.
15. A HUGE assortment of software. Both productivity (all the First
XLent titles), NewStation, PrintShop, C compilers,
Forth, Atari Macro Assembler, Assembler Editor, all the ICD assemblers
and languages. 2 copies of Sparta DOS X, etc., and
lots of games (including Flight Simulator cart and two scenery disks).
Most are in original packaging. Also a lot of
loose cartridges and three cases of floppies.
16. Lots of books.
17. COMPLETE collection of Antic magazine. ANALOG from early 1985 to
end. COMPUTE from early 1985 to end. Most of Atari
Explorer.
18. Lots of documentation, Xeroxed articles, etc. about Atari 8-bits.
If you're interested in getting all this great stuff subject to the
above-stated restrictions, please email me:
jmagacs(a)altavista.net
*********************
2 Dec
2 Dec
6:15 p.m.
On Wed, 2 Dec 1998, Tony Duell wrote:
If the RTC chip is much taller than the other chips on
the mainboard (say
about 3/8" high) then it probably contains an internal battery. Dallas
and Mostek/SGS-Thomson made chips like that.
Here are the two likely candidates:
(date code)
ST 99045
MK48T02B-15
TIMEKEEPER (tm) RAM
DO NOT DISPOSE IN FIRE
The ST part of the above is a logo. If I recognized it I'd have mentioned
the actual name of the manufacturer. (: The other possibility is this:
TOSHIBA Japan
TC541000P-15
VPP 12.5V (date code)
Otherwise the battery could be just about anywhere
inside the machine.
Unlikely. The machine is a pizzabox configuration, with the entirety of
the mainboard in plain view. There isn't even mounting hardware for an
internal drive. There's just _nothing_ in the box.
ok
r.
7:15 p.m.
Here are the two likely candidates:
(date code)
ST 99045
MK48T02B-15
TIMEKEEPER (tm) RAM
DO NOT DISPOSE IN FIRE
The ST part of the above is a logo. If I recognized it I'd have mentioned
the actual name of the manufacturer.
SGS-Thomson. The MK is a Mostek prefix; SGS-Thomson bought Mostek from
United Technologies some years back. Now SGS-Thomson has changed their
name to STMicro. In any case, the 48T02 should be pretty easy to find as
it is a very common device.
The other possibility is this:
TOSHIBA Japan
TC541000P-15
VPP 12.5V (date code)
Are you sure that's not a TC571000? I thought the TC54xxx parts were usually
DRAMs, which wouldn't have a VPP. EPROMs would have VPP, but I think they
generally have TC57xxx numbers. In either case, this isn't the part you're
looking for.
Eric
7:45 p.m.
On Thu, 3 Dec 1998, R. Stricklin (kjaeros) wrote:
(date code)
ST 99045
MK48T02B-15
TIMEKEEPER (tm) RAM
DO NOT DISPOSE IN FIRE
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
This says it all. You never want to throw a battery into an open fire,
unless you want an explosion.
I say throw it in an open fire.
Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Always being hassled by the man.
Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0
See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
[Last web site update: 11/02/98]
3 Dec
3 Dec
10:59 a.m.
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12:13 p.m.
On Thu, 3 Dec 1998, Tony Duell wrote:
DO NOT DISPOSE IN FIRE is the biggest clue. It
contains a lithium
battery. Burning one of those makes it go bang.
I knew that much, at least. I was being silly including it. (:
That's the chip. The 48T02 is still fairly easy to
get. Of course check
the datecode....
Can anybody suggest a source? The only one I'm remotely familiar with is
Jameco, but they have such byzantine rules for ordering (and a glossy
catalogue.. somehow glossy pages in a components catalogue is sleazy) that
I'd rather not deal with them.
I'll check out Digi-key if I can find the catalogue and nobody jumps up
and says, "Eugh! Don't order from THEM.."
Well, that sounds like an EPROM/OTP EPROM. The Vpp
12.5v means that the
programming voltage is 12.5V, a common value for modern EPROMS.
That makes sense. Let's hope I didn't fry it when I dropped it on the
carpet. It's been raining here for months though so the air is definitely
damp enough that I don't think it was a problem.
ok
r.
1:16 p.m.
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4 Dec
4 Dec
6:23 a.m.
New subject: OT: Carpets producing static
No, including information is never silly.
Too true.
That makes
sense. Let's hope I didn't fry it when I dropped it on the
carpet. It's been raining here for months though so the air is definitely
You have _carpet_ in your workshop? Oh well....
I remember someone commenting in Byte (I think) that computer shops went
downhill when they started carpeting them. After all, who'd walk across a
carpeted floor carring a MOS chip? 
8:10 a.m.
New subject: OT: Carpets producing static
There are a few things you can do to minimize static. First you can either buy
an anti-stat spray or get a bottle of Downy and dilute it as recommended, then
spray a mist over the carpet and let it dry. You can also run bare wire under
the carpet (if possible) and then terminate it to a cold water pipe or other
building ground. It tends to neutralize the potentials and will at least minimze
the chance of buildup.
Humidification greatly reduces the chances for static as well, even if it's just
a unit on t he floor of the room you work in. keeps dust buildup to a minimum as
well.
Russ
Athanasios Kotsenos wrote:
Our computer room here is carpeted as well... Not a very good idea...
I just take a walk across the room and touch something and I get a cute
shock. Sometimes they're not so cute. I'm now getting them off the front of
the screen of one of the PCs (It's a Sony).
Nasos
No, including
information is never silly.
Too true.
That
makes sense. Let's hope I didn't fry it when I dropped it on the
carpet. It's been raining here for months though so the air is definitely
You have _carpet_ in your workshop? Oh well....
I remember someone commenting in Byte (I think) that computer shops went
downhill when they started carpeting them. After all, who'd walk across a
carpeted floor carring a MOS chip? 
3:26 a.m.
New subject: OT: Carpets producing static
Humidification greatly reduces the chances for static as well, even if it's just
a unit on t he floor of the room you work in. keeps dust buildup to a minimum as
well.
Russ
Not so with ultrasonic humidifer, lots and lots of dust generated
from that thing.
Anything else with old fashioned technologies, fine.
Jason D.
email: jpero(a)cgocable.net
Pero, Jason D.
8:53 a.m.
New subject: OT: Carpets producing static
> Humidification greatly reduces the chances for
static as well, even if
>it's just
> a unit on t he floor of the room you work in. keeps dust buildup to a
>minimum as
> well.
Not so with ultrasonic humidifer, lots and lots of dust
generated
from that thing.
Ultrasonic and humidifier? How does that work?
What about those ionisers or the ones that also have air filters?
Nasos
9:30 a.m.
New subject: OT: Carpets producing static
At 07:53 PM 12/4/98 +0000, Athanasios Kotsenos wrote:
Inexpensive ultrasonic humidifiers essentially break up water into
small bits and then fan them into the air, meaning anything in your
water such as calcium, salt, etc. is now in the air. As those droplets
evaporate as they should, the other material becomes dust that will
collect electrostatically on electronic equipment, plastics, etc.
As someone else on the list implied, any more old-fashioned humidifier
(which may be even more inexpensive than the ultrasonics) that merely
exposes water to blowing air isn't prone to this sort of dust generation.
I used an ultrasonic humidifier for a *very short* time until I
discovered this nasty side-effect as all my monitor screens became
frosty white, and the plastic and metal cases of equipment became
dusted in static-y patterns.
- John
Not so with ultrasonic humidifer, lots and lots of
dust generated
from that thing.
Ultrasonic and humidifier? How does that work? 
9:44 a.m.
New subject: OT: Carpets producing static
Inexpensive ultrasonic humidifiers essentially break
up water into
small bits and then fan them into the air, meaning anything in your
water such as calcium, salt, etc. is now in the air. As those droplets
evaporate as they should, the other material becomes dust that will
collect electrostatically on electronic equipment, plastics, etc.
So I assume if you feed the ultrasonic vaporizer distilled water it doesn't
do this?
--
Jim Strickland
jim(a)DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Vote Meadocrat! Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
9:55 a.m.
New subject: OT: Carpets producing static
Most manufacturers recommend distilled water anyway, to keep the deposits in
the machine itself down as well.
Jim Strickland wrote:
Inexpensive
ultrasonic humidifiers essentially break up water into
small bits and then fan them into the air, meaning anything in your
water such as calcium, salt, etc. is now in the air. As those droplets
evaporate as they should, the other material becomes dust that will
collect electrostatically on electronic equipment, plastics, etc.
So I assume if you feed the ultrasonic vaporizer distilled water it doesn't
do this?
--
Jim Strickland
jim(a)DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Vote Meadocrat! Bill and Opus in 2000 - Who ELSE is there?
----------------------------------------------------------------------- 
10 a.m.
New subject: OT: Carpets producing static
Many humdifiers have built-in filters, but I don't know how well they work. We
just got one of them Brita water filters, which is basically overpriced
charcoal, but makes the tap water look a lot cleaner. In general, I see no
reason not to use a conventional humidifier anyway (in the winter, we put pans
of water on the radiators).
ObClassiccmp: would it be possible to convert a PC motherboard into a
humidifier using the piezoelectric buzzer?
So I assume if you feed the ultrasonic vaporizer
distilled water it doesn't
do this?
--
Jim Strickland
jim(a)DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com
6:24 a.m.
New subject: Whose is that program to spawn that *.xls files?
Thanks all, just send me privately on this matter if that program can
be downloadable, then that's great!
This file fell into my lap by a friend asking me to extract this one.
Jason D.
email: jpero(a)cgocable.net
Pero, Jason D.
11:33 a.m.
New subject: Whose is that program to spawn that *.xls files?
On Fri, 4 Dec 1998 jpero(a)pop.cgocable.net wrote:
Thanks all, just send me privately on this matter if
that program can
be downloadable, then that's great!
This file fell into my lap by a friend asking me to extract this one.
Microsoft Excel I believe.
Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Always being hassled by the man.
Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0
See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
[Last web site update: 11/02/98]
1:03 p.m.
New subject: Whose is that program to spawn that *.xls files?
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2:41 p.m.
New subject: Whose is that program to spawn that *.xls files?
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 00:03:10 +0000 (GMT)
Reply-to: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu
From: ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers"
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Whose is that program to spawn that *.xls files?
I'm going to be flamed by all my linux-using
friends for knowing this one...
.xls is from Microsoft Excel. It's and eXceL Sheet - i.e. the spreadsheet
itself. The last time I used Excel - about 10 years ago - there was also
.xlm for the macro files
You're forgiven... :) I figured out that I could search juse *.xls
and it clued me in and thought if I could try the M$ site to see if I
could d/l the freeware excel reader and yes it is!
Thanks all.
-tony
email: jpero(a)cgocable.net
Pero, Jason D.
5 Dec
5 Dec
3:21 a.m.
New subject: Whose is that program to spawn that *.xls files?
jpero(a)pop.cgocable.net wrote:
Be careful. Microsoft never gives anything away -- their "free"
stuff is intended to addict the unwary. Fortunately, their "free"
stuff is about as attractive as a kerosene hangover. (Ask any old
jet mechanic whether the high is worth it).
--
Ward Griffiths <mailto:gram@cnct.com> <http://www.cnct.com/home/gram/>
WARNING: The Attorney General has determined that Alcohol, Tobacco,
and Firearms can be hazardous to your health -- and get away with it.
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 00:03:10 +0000
(GMT)
Reply-to: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu
From: ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers"
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Whose is that program to spawn that *.xls files?
I'm going to be flamed by all my linux-using
friends for knowing this one...
.xls is from Microsoft Excel. It's and eXceL Sheet - i.e. the spreadsheet
itself. The last time I used Excel - about 10 years ago - there was also
.xlm for the macro files
You're forgiven... :) I figured out that I could search juse *.xls
and it clued me in and thought if I could try the M$ site to see if I
could d/l the freeware excel reader and yes it is! 
4:31 p.m.
New subject: Whose is that program to spawn that *.xls files?
Tony Duell wrote:
I have heard of a package called StarOffice (word processor, spreadsheet, etc.)
that can deal with these. StarOffice (free, IIRC) runs under linux, solaris-x86,
and possibly a few others.
I haven't tried it, but a co-worker has, and he's impressed.....
And, no, I don't know where he downloaded it from.....
Stan
Thanks all, just send me privately on this matter if that program can
be downloadable, then that's great!
This file fell into my lap by a friend asking me to extract this one.
I'm going to be flamed by all my linux-using friends for knowing this one...
.xls is from Microsoft Excel. It's and eXceL Sheet - i.e. the spreadsheet
itself. The last time I used Excel - about 10 years ago - there was also
.xlm for the macro files
-tony
4 Dec
4 Dec
4:52 p.m.
New subject: Whose is that program to spawn that *.xls files?
On Sat, 5 Dec 1998, Stan Pietkiewicz wrote:
I have heard of a package called StarOffice (word
processor, spreadsheet, etc.)
that can deal with these. StarOffice (free, IIRC) runs under linux, solaris-x86,
and possibly a few others.
I haven't tried it, but a co-worker has, and he's impressed.....
And, no, I don't know where he downloaded it from.....
http://www.stardivision.com
Free for personal, non-commercial use.
(hanging on-topic by a thread by virtue of being able to access Classic
data formats)
4:58 p.m.
New subject: Whose is that program to spawn that *.xls files?
Stan Pietkiewicz wrote:
I have heard of a package called StarOffice (word
processor, spreadsheet, etc.)
that can deal with these. StarOffice (free, IIRC) runs under linux, solaris-x86,
and possibly a few others.
I haven't tried it, but a co-worker has, and he's impressed.....
And, no, I don't know where he downloaded it from.....
StarOffice is a commercial product, though Caldera provides a demo
copy with their Linux distribution, and the demo can be downloaded
from Caldera and other sites. It doesn't seem to
read the latest
Excel and Word formats, Microsoft keeps "upgrading" the
file format
with each release (not that I see any features added) but of course
keeping the same extension on the filenames. When I have to use
their stuff on the job, I try to remember to save files in older
formats, preferably .SLK and .TXT, since I can read those on my
classic systems, MultiPlan actually being a _good_ Microsoft
product, ranking with Extended Color BASIC.
--
Ward Griffiths <mailto:gram@cnct.com> <http://www.cnct.com/home/gram/>
WARNING: The Attorney General has determined that Alcohol, Tobacco,
and Firearms can be hazardous to your health -- and get away with it.
7 Dec
7 Dec
8:31 a.m.
New subject: Whose is that program to spawn that *.xls files?
> And, no, I don't know where he downloaded it
from.....
StarOffice is a commercial product, though Caldera
provides a demo
copy with their Linux distribution, and the demo can be downloaded
from Caldera and other sites. It doesn't seem to read the latest
Excel and Word formats, Microsoft keeps "upgrading" the file format
with each release (not that I see any features added) but of course
keeping the same extension on the filenames.
It's prety up to date and the best of all: IT IS FREE (for personal use).
Since one month ago, not only the Linux but also the WinDOOFs and
OS/2 and Solaris versions are free for personal use - The software is
available for download on several sites - or you order a 79 Mark
(~50 USD) package direkt from them (here you get a manual, some
additional fonts and clip arts and 30 days of installation support).
Most of it's revenue, Stardivision generates from compaies and
professional users, and the part is dramaticly increasing. so they
just decided that it's better to focus the sales to professionals. But
instead of droping private/home users they rather offer their package
for free - the idea is to give a good product and charge only for service
if needed - think of all the Linux distributions from Suse to Red Hat -
same idea ...
In fact, at Home I switched to StarOffice - it#s compatible enough
to cooperate with MS Word & Co but runs also under OS/2 and Linux.
Gruss
Hans
--
Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
HRK
4 Dec
4 Dec
5:29 p.m.
New subject: Whose is that program to spawn that *.xls files?
I have heard of a package called StarOffice (word
processor, spreadsheet,
etc.)
that can deal with these. StarOffice (free, IIRC) runs under linux,
solaris-x86,
and possibly a few others.
I haven't tried it, but a co-worker has, and he's impressed.....
And, no, I don't know where he downloaded it from.....
A friend at work was testing it out, it's very impressive, he was able to
open all the Excel documents he tried out. The only problems we noticed
with 5.0 was that it's kind of sluggish on a PPro 150 w/64Mb, and any child
windows are forced to stay inside the main window. I'm getting ready to
give it a try on my home system. Version 5.0 is free for personal use, and
is close enough to Microsoft Office to be frightening. It has the added
advantage of being the most professional feeling one out there (I've used
Applix before and didn't like it).
Also Corel is supposed to be releaseing it's Office Suite, which includes
WordPerfect 8.0 on Linux. I believe it will also be free for personal use.
Of course I would assume that the personal use versions aren't as
functional as the commercial ones.
Zane
| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator |
| healyzh(a)ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast |
| healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, |
| and Zane's Computer Museum. |
| http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ |
11:28 a.m.
New subject: OT: Carpets producing static
On Fri, 4 Dec 1998, Max Eskin wrote:
Many humdifiers have built-in filters, but I don't
know how well they work. We
just got one of them Brita water filters, which is basically overpriced
charcoal, but makes the tap water look a lot cleaner. In general, I see no
reason not to use a conventional humidifier anyway (in the winter, we put pans
of water on the radiators).
ObClassiccmp: would it be possible to convert a PC motherboard into a
humidifier using the piezoelectric buzzer?
I bought three humidifiers last winter at the corner drug store for $15
each. They consist of a large tank and a fan that blows over a special
sponge. I keep them clean with bleach and use distilled water with them
and haven't had any problems with buildup at all. Each one works well for
a 15'x15' room; Southern California is dry enough *without* the heaters
going at night - a static nightmare without humidifiers.
To move this on-topic (a little), does anyone know the *ideal* relative
humidity for computer/electonic equipment? How about for magnetic media,
specifically these 8" disks and 9track tapes that are already approaching
their 20th birthdays?
Aaron
6:41 a.m.
New subject: OT: Carpets producing static
Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 15:34:10 -0600
Reply-to: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu
From: John Foust <jfoust(a)threedee.com>
To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers"
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: OT: Carpets producing static
At 01:44 PM 12/4/98 -0700, Jim Strickland wrote:
Correct. Cheaper and bit savings on the bills becuse of no
electronics to spin the motor to blow air and cool the electronics
and vibrate the disc in that ultrasonic vapourizer. That disc
degrades with use which is poor in my experience with one unit. An
pair of stainless flat bars in a special cartidge both dunked in
tapwater, boiling a head of steam by the conduction of resistance
current making heat.
The *STEAM* sprewed forth by any methods is pure distilled water and
that is exactly how distillers gets their distilled water. This
process is by condesing the steam back to liquid by cooled surface
and allowed to drip into tank then packaged, shipped.
So I assume if you feed the ultrasonic vaporizer
distilled water it doesn't
do this?
Yes, although it's faster to turn a dollar bill into vapor using a match.
- John 
11:05 p.m.
New subject: Keyboards
A question for the collective wisdom and distributed awareness of
the list:
Anybody ever run across parallel ASCII keyboards, something suitable
for interfracing to a 6820 port? Serial terminals & kbrds seem much
more common - kbrd isn't really a bandwidth hog - but all my software
was coded for a parallel port.. Currently I'm using the joystick ports
of an Atari 800 (another 6820) - which is actually kinda nice
(a programmable keyboard!) but would eventually like to find the
real thing.
tia
Chuck
cswiger(a)widomaker.com
5 Dec
5 Dec
4:57 a.m.
New subject: Keyboards
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8:51 a.m.
New subject: Keyboards
On Sat, 5 Dec 1998, Tony Duell wrote:
Oh no, I can appreciate things that are worth more as a system than
broken up into parts
A question for the collective wisdom and distributed awareness of
the list:
Anybody ever run across parallel ASCII keyboards, something suitable
Looking around here, I can spot the Gemini keyboard. That has a parallel
Ascii interface on it. 7 data lines + strobe. So does the keyboard on a
PERQ 1, but if you raid a PERQ 1 for its keyboard I will LART you :-).
At one time (long-discontinued), Maplin sold a kit for a
parallel-interfaced Ascii keyboard.
Mine was a Radio Shack kit - still have the manual
My recomendation would be to program a microcontroller to take a serial
keyboard (possibly a PC keyboard, although then you need to have a
scancode-> ascii table in the ROM) input and then output the parallel
format you require.
Sounds better'n being 'LART'd
Chuck
cswiger(a)widomaker.com
11:30 a.m.
New subject: Keyboards
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2:51 p.m.
New subject: Keyboards
At 10:30 PM 12/5/98 +0000, Tony D. wrote:
The obvious source of parallel ASCII keyboards is the
Apple ][, of
course. And they're not exactly hard to find, are they? I don't think
anyone would flame too much if you raided one of those.
Tony,
Do you have the pinouts of that keyboard? If so can you post them here?
I know it would be easy enough to figure out but it would save time if you
could post it.
Joe
1:18 p.m.
New subject: Keyboards
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6 Dec
6 Dec
5:34 a.m.
New subject: Keyboards
Thanks Tony. I'll add that to my references. Never know when I might need
a parallel keyboard. I KNEW I should have kept that APPLE reference manual
I gave Phil.
Joe
At 12:18 AM 12/6/98 +0000, you wrote:
[ Apple ][ ]
Do you have the pinouts of that keyboard? If
so can you post them here?
I know it would be easy enough to figure out but it would save time if you
could post it.
Sure. Note this is for the Apple ][ and ][+ only. The //e has a different
keyboard with the encoder chip on the mainboard. I've got details of that
as well, but it's not a parallel ASCII keyboard.
The pinout for the Apple ][ keyboard (16 pin IC socket type of connector)
is (from the Apple ][ reference manual) :
+5V 1 16 N/C
Strobe 2 15 -12V
Reset 3 14 N/C
N/C 4 13 D1
D5 5 12 D0
D4 6 11 D3
D6 7 10 D2
Gnd 8 9 N/C
Hope that helps
-tony
5:56 a.m.
New subject: ebay Altair Music Record
Hi John,
Saw this and I thought you would be interested. The bidding is closed, but
it will give you an idea of what it sold for.
http://cgi3.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBids&item=4545633
6:19 a.m.
New subject: ebay Altair Music Record
Oops, meant that to go private. Oh well, but at least it will give you
listmembers interested in computerized music an idea of what this stuff is
going for ... at least on ebay :).
Marvin wrote:
Hi John,
Saw this and I thought you would be interested. The bidding is closed, but
it will give you an idea of what it sold for.
http://cgi3.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBids&item=4545633
4:18 p.m.
New subject: ebay Altair Music Record
On Sun, 6 Dec 1998, Marvin wrote:
Hi John,
Saw this and I thought you would be interested. The bidding is closed, but
it will give you an idea of what it sold for.
http://cgi3.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBids&item=4545633
The correct URL is:
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=45456336
This is an incredible artifact.
Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Always being hassled by the man.
Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0
See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
[Last web site update: 11/02/98]
5 Dec
5 Dec
9:08 a.m.
New subject: What a coincidence
Members:
Just have to brag about this: recently came across a
Cromemco S-100 memory, 64KZ-II sans manual. Today went to
the local industrial science surplus store, looking thru
the military radio manuals when what to my wondering eyes
should appear - a 64KZ-II manual addendum!! Not the full
thing but has dip switch settings and schematic at least.
Produced on a system running the Cromix(tm) OS.
BTW - same store recently got in some disk packs, RL01K-DC
for DEC. They're selling them for $5. What was the capacity
of those things? 5, 10 MB ??
Chuck
cswiger(a)widomaker.com
3:51 p.m.
New subject: What a coincidence
BTW - same store recently got in some disk packs,
RL01K-DC
for DEC. They're selling them for $5. What was the capacity
of those things? 5, 10 MB ??
They are the 5Mb packs used in RL-01 drives. The RL-02's are preferable
since they are 10Mb, the packs for the 2's also have a shock indicator,
which I've not seen on 1's. If the indicator has turned, it's a good bet
the pack has problems, but not always. Anyone know how hard it is to
re-balance a pack?
Zane
| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator |
| healyzh(a)ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast |
| healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, |
| and Zane's Computer Museum. |
| http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ |
4:33 p.m.
New subject: Mosaic Twin
Man, pickings are getting slim around here. After looking around for
anything of any historic significance, all I could come up with is a
shrink-wrapped copy of Mosaic Twin. This was a Lotus 123 clone from
around 1986. In 1987, Lotus sued Mosaic for violating their look-and-feel
copyright and won! (So, I assume all copies were recalled and destroyed
and mine is the only surviving copy, right?)
I remember that Lotus tried to sue Borland too, and lost, but they lost
because Quattro Pro wasn't an exact clone. I don't remember if
the idea of look-and-feel copyright was ever thrown out, though. Was it?
How similar is Star Office to Microsoft Office, BTW?
-- Doug
4 Dec
4 Dec
8:50 a.m.
New subject: On Topic: Carpets producing static and old HPs
There are a few things you can do to minimize static.
First you can either buy
an anti-stat spray or get a bottle of Downy and dilute it as recommended, then
spray a mist over the carpet and let it dry.
Is Downy a detergent for sensitive clothes (the name is familiar)? Or is it
specifically for this purpose?
You can also run bare wire under
the carpet (if possible) and then terminate it to a cold water pipe or other
building ground. It tends to neutralize the potentials and will at least
minimze
the chance of buildup.
Well, this room has a raised floor under which power and network cables
run. The floor is wooden with the thin carpet on top. At various points you
have these metal 'holes' where the sockets/plugs are located. In fact the
covers are metallic and have carpet on them too and it was intereting when
I noticed that they have a little grounding wire connecting them to the
rest of the metallic frame. That's obviously for keeping static off that
bit, but it doesn't seem to be doing any good for the rest of the carpet.
I'm sorta used to it - you should see the shocks some of the people get
when I go to help them. :)=
Humidification greatly reduces the chances for static
as well, even if
it's just
a unit on t he floor of the room you work in. keeps dust buildup to a
minimum as
well.
That's another problem we have. We are facing Kengsington Gore (a big
street in London (just on the south side of Kensington Gardens and Hyde
Park)), so we get tons of pollution coming in. It's a nightmare getting
that out of a computer I've opened for repairs (I had never seen anything
like it before when I opened the 'ancient' Macs that were probably being
opened for the first time).
Same dust problem goes for the large amount of (mostly HP) hardware left in
the far end of the room. Oh, get a load of this - all this hardware was
under an electronics workbench (this room is great). I tested some of the
old screens and was happy to find that some of them work. The HP stuff is
what is left from the network they had here before they got all the Macs
and the college-wide network. We're talking about a system that was given
to them (sponsorship?) back in 1988 or something. I don't know how
gloriously (or not) it went down, but nobody seems to care about it, it's
been sitting here for years and they've been trying to chuck it out for
years. I'd hate to see it go in the skip like that and I've stated my
concern. And now that I'm the only one in charge of the computer room and I
do have to get this stuff out of here eventually, I'd like them to have a
nice home. This is the main reason I joined this list.
I'm sorry I'm too lazy to type in a list right now of what we have. Besides
being tired on a Friday evening, I'd give you the list after I decide what
I want to/can keep. And there may be some interested people in this college.
What is left will go to this list, I guess. It's obviously an advantage if
you are in the London area or the UK, but whoever is interested and
willing...
Russ
Thanks for your info Russ.
Bye all,
Nasos
2:31 p.m.
New subject: On Topic: Carpets producing static and old HPs
Athanasios Kotsenos wrote:
It's a "fabric softener". It leaves a chemical residue after the rinse
that tends to reduce static electricity formation after the clothing is
dried. As anyone who has dried clothing of dissimilar fabrics is
familiar with the socks sticking to the shirts.
There is carpeting manufactured that contains conductive threads. It
was standard at all of the Radio Shack Computer Centers in the States,
probably the regular Radio Shack stores as well. I was more likely to
generate a spark walking across the linoleum in the repair shop than
in the carpeted showroom.
--
Ward Griffiths <mailto:gram@cnct.com> <http://www.cnct.com/home/gram/>
WARNING: The Attorney General has determined that Alcohol, Tobacco,
and Firearms can be hazardous to your health -- and get away with it.
There are a few things you can do to minimize
static. First you can either buy
an anti-stat spray or get a bottle of Downy and dilute it as recommended, then
spray a mist over the carpet and let it dry.
Is Downy a detergent for sensitive clothes (the name is familiar)? Or is it
specifically for this purpose? You can also run bare wire under
the carpet (if possible) and then terminate it to a cold water pipe or other
building ground. It tends to neutralize the potentials and will at least
minimze
the chance of buildup.
Well, this room has a raised floor under which power and network cables
run. The floor is wooden with the thin carpet on top. At various points you
have these metal 'holes' where the sockets/plugs are located. In fact the
covers are metallic and have carpet on them too and it was intereting when
I noticed that they have a little grounding wire connecting them to the
rest of the metallic frame. That's obviously for keeping static off that
bit, but it doesn't seem to be doing any good for the rest of the carpet.
5 Dec
5 Dec
4:51 a.m.
New subject: OFF Topic: Downy
There are a few things you can do to minimize static.
First you can
either buy
an anti-stat spray or get a bottle of Downy and
dilute it as
recommended, then
spray a mist over the carpet and let it dry.
Is Downy a detergent for sensitive clothes (the name is familiar)? Or is it
specifically for this purpose?
9365
days inactive
9371
days old
55 comments
23 participants
participants (23)
-
a.kotsenos＠rca.ac.uk -
A_Finney＠wfi-inc.com -
ai705＠osfn.org -
amirault＠epix.net -
ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
cswiger＠wilma.widomaker.com -
dastar＠ncal.verio.com -
Dean.Nelson＠lmco.com -
eric＠brouhaha.com -
geoffrob＠stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au -
gram＠cnct.com -
Hans.Franke＠mch20.sbs.de -
healyzh＠ix.netcom.com -
jfoust＠threedee.com -
jim＠calico.litterbox.com -
jpero＠pop.cgocable.net -
kurtkilg＠geocities.com -
marvin＠rain.org -
red＠bears.org -
rhblake＠bigfoot.com -
rigdonj＠intellistar.net -
stanp＠storm.ca -
yowza＠yowza.com