27 Jun
2003
27 Jun
'03
12:13 a.m.
Tony,
an all-in-one email...
Duh! I just picked it up; I'd only noticed the Farnell label before. It
actually says "Triple X 100W" on the side :) It's not the same as the
power
supply in my "prototype" XXX which is a 150W unit, same as the one in the big
"Hard Disc" machine.
gotcha. I can't imagine I can make use of seven of them, unless driving them is
easy enough that I can use them in other systems... I've got the docs for the
boards but I don't know how detailed they are yet.
uh-oh :-)
I have two, for machines with two different serial numbers. Hopefully one works
with the 'prototype' system I have (or, if it is a prototype, they disabled
this feature :-)
cheers
Jules
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OK, in the production XXX, the hard and floppy drives
were connected to
an OMTI board, and thence to the SCSI bus. Your unit is consistent with this
Yep, that's exactly what I have. The case may or may not be a stock part. The
XXX case itself looks to be from something else for sure though - there are
even two spare half-height drive bays inside.
The XXX I have is a single board called a 'Stickleback' with various connectors
in it - including BT in/out and an Ethernet port (none of these are actually
wired to the back of the case though). There's also markings on the board for a
VME bus connection, but no socket or associated circuitry.
I'm "missing" two ICs: IC139 is just a socket for a 48 pin IC beneath which
is
written "WYN8526(ET)". IC140 next to this is a 24 pin socket and is also empty.
Maybe something to do with the ethernet circuitry? The connector's nearby. (ET
= 'Ethernet Transciever" ?? :)
The production machines have a 8 pin DIN for video.
OK, I do have that but it's labelled RGB; there's also the hole for a socket
labelled 'video' - but as the case is a hack who knows...
Be careful. This sounds like the case from something
else. Production
XXXs have 2 DB25 sockets, and both are RS232 ports (one actually carries
2 sets of RS232 signals, for a total of 3 serial ports). There is no
parallel port on the production machines....
My Stickleback board is marked as having RS432 and X.25, both on 25 pin ports.
The RS432 port is wired through to the parallel port on the back of the case,
and the X.25 port is wired through to the RS432 port on the back of the case
:-)
Production machines don't have a conventional
power switch. The PSU is
controlled by a relay. There's a touch-sensitive contact on the front of
the box that turns the PSU on when touched.
Except on mine :-) There's a battery hanging loose inside the case, but
nothing resembling touch contacts; it appears that's all been bypassed on this
machine and the power switch works conventionally. I wonder what the correct
procedure of shutting it down safely is... (hopefully one of the various stock
Unix methods will work)
[Torch "Hard Disc"]
This sounds a bit BBC-micro like!. There is a Torch
SCSI hard disk unit
for the beeb -- it's supposed to be rather rare. The one I've seen is a
plinth to fit under the nonitor contianing the SCSI interface (connectes
to the Beeb 1MHz bus) + hard disk and also a floppy drive (connects to the
normal Beeb disk controller). Maybe you have much the same unit built
into a case with the Beeb mainboard and monitor.
OK, been inside now - it is a BBC, with a Torch Z80 coprocessor. Torch SASI
interface hooked up to the BBC's 1MHz bus, with a Xebec interface hanging off
that which talks to the hard drive. Integral display is a Microvitec (probably
a Cub). The case appears to be production quality but is a very oddball design
(as is the seperate PSU). See seperate post for link to pics if you can
motivate yourself to look at some grahpics :-}
The keyboard's an ineresting custom design with about a million keys :-) Half
of these seem to be labelled with various wordprocessing functions. I since
believe I'm missing a modem from it, but one of the spares I have will fit -
not sure where it hooks up to the rest of the system though.
[ Torch-725 ]
The QuadX I have is in the same case (basically) as a
production XXX. But
the mainboard is a singla 6U VME card, and there's a little 3 slot (I
think) VME cardcage in the bottom slice. Much the same PSU as
Hmmm... ok, what I have in that 725 is another BBC, a 68k Torch Atlas board,
Torch SCSI interface, and a Xebec controller talking to the full-height drive.
I need to go poke around in the documentation sometime. And I'll have to hassle
the guy I got these from about the rack-mount QX he has if this is in fact
something different :)
Information on what exactly a Torch Unicorn was would be useful, to be honest.
Some people seem to think it was the name of a complete machine, whilst others
think it was just the name for the range of Torch cards available for the BBC.
Just idly wondering if the 725 was a prototype Unicorn or something; I don't
have details of exactly what machines Torch made.
This does not sound like a XXXX....
I do have a spare hard disk labelled as Quad X, those tape drives and
controller boards, a surplus Torch-stock PSU, complete ROM set, and the
complete schematics for the QX VME card. I'll just go build myself one... ;-)
Triple X PSU
(or so I was told; not having a 'genuine' Triple X I don't
know!)
Can you describe it? I've got a couple of XXXs (including a nicely
expanded one with a Quinring on top), and quite a pile of spares... In theory the XXX can support a tape drive on the SCSI
bus, but I've
never managed to get it to work...
I'll keep an eye out when I go through the docs I have. I noticed on the
previous owner's invoices for the XXX that I now have that he recieved it with
a tape drive. Maybe there'll be some info amongst everything that says how it
hooks up. The two tape drives I got were from XXX machines so I can grab model
numbers / interface details from those too.
Seven issue
3 Torch manta boards,
These are used in XXX and XXXX machines if you have a real
SCSI hard
drive (as opposed to an ST506 one on an OMTI board). Two Torch key
disks (with different serial numbers).
You may not have realised it yet, but the
Torch OS is keyed to the serial
number of the (uncopyable) Key disk. If you have to re-install the OS, or
if the NiCd goes flat, or... you need the right key disk... 
27 Jun
27 Jun
11:50 a.m.
[Torch "Hard Disc"]
I've been away a week so trying to catch up on the list (hence replying to
points made in other posts here too!) ...
This unit sounds /very/ like a Torch 68000 Hard Disc machine I have, so
definitely production quality. Same ridiculous separate power supply..
Pictures: (apologies for the quality, they were taken a while back when
all I had was a webcam, and the machine is buried at the moment!)
http://www.irrelevant.com/pics/Torch004.jpg
http://www.irrelevant.com/pics/Torch005.jpg
http://www.irrelevant.com/pics/Torch006.jpg
http://www.irrelevant.com/pics/Torch007.jpg
http://www.irrelevant.com/pics/Torch008.jpg
http://www.irrelevant.com/pics/Torch009.jpg
Mine appears to be complete - it has the modem (connects somewhere to the
torch boards, rather than the RS423 on the BBC, so makes 100% of all BBC
native communications software useless). 68000 board is positioned where
the Z80 board is on yours, is just bigger.
The barrel jack plug connector on your modems was indeed the standard "plug
and socket" telephone connector in the GPO days (before they became British
Telecom) and was not a mass-market commodity - you had to pay quite a lot
to have sockets installed; most phones were hard-wired.
My machine /seems/ to run a 68000 version of CPN - there is supposed to be
a unix for it, but I never found a way to boot it into that, or software to
reload it.
I got rid of most of my other torch stuff; the communicator tried to sell
for quite a high price on eBay.. makes me cringe to think of so many going
to landfill. btw ... I got a pile of old Amstrad CPC bits, mostly GBP 1 -
5 up on www.eBid.co.uk (free auction site, getting a lot of eBay business
after their price rises!) at the moment...
This sounds a bit BBC-micro like!. There is a
Torch SCSI hard disk unit
for the beeb -- it's supposed to be rather rare. The one I've seen is a
plinth to fit under the nonitor contianing the SCSI interface (connectes
to the Beeb 1MHz bus) + hard disk and also a floppy drive (connects to the
normal Beeb disk controller). Maybe you have much the same unit built
into a case with the Beeb mainboard and monitor.
OK, been inside now - it is a BBC, with a Torch Z80 coprocessor. Torch SASI
interface hooked up to the BBC's 1MHz bus, with a Xebec interface hanging off
that which talks to the hard drive. Integral display is a Microvitec (probably
a Cub). The case appears to be production quality but is a very oddball design
(as is the seperate PSU). See seperate post for link to pics if you can
motivate yourself to look at some grahpics :-}
The keyboard's an ineresting custom design with about a million keys :-) Half
of these seem to be labelled with various wordprocessing functions. I since
believe I'm missing a modem from it, but one of the spares I have will fit -
not sure where it hooks up to the rest of the system though. 
11:59 a.m.
Tony,
an all-in-one email...
My guess is that you have normal XXX boards mounted in a non-standard
case. Possibly the case from some other Torch product.
OK, in the production XXX, the hard and floppy
drives were connected to
an OMTI board, and thence to the SCSI bus. Your unit is consistent with this
Yep, that's exactly what I have. The case may or may not be a stock part. The XXX case itself looks to be from something else for
sure though - there are
even two spare half-height drive bays inside.
The XXX I have is a single board called a 'Stickleback' with various connectors
Yes, that's standard.
in it - including BT in/out and an Ethernet port (none
of these are actually
The BT connectors are wired to a pin header just behind them _only_. The
internal modem connects to the Xbus (basically BBC 1MHz bus without
interrupts!) header and to the header connected to the BT connectors.
wired to the back of the case though). There's
also markings on the board for a
VME bus connection, but no socket or associated circuitry.
The VME interdace is a DIN41612 plug and a few buffers. AFAIK all
production machines had it fitted.
I'm "missing" two ICs: IC139 is just a socket for a 48 pin IC beneath which
is
written "WYN8526(ET)". IC140 next to this is a 24 pin socket and is also
empty.
Maybe something to do with the ethernet circuitry? The connector's nearby. (ET
= 'Ethernet Transciever" ?? :)
Probably. The ethernet chips (I think there were 3 -- 7990, 7992, and a
transdformer) wrer optional.
The production machines have a 8 pin DIN for
video.
OK, I do have that but it's labelled RGB; there's also the hole for a socket
labelled 'video' - but as the case is a hack
who knows...
It sounds like this case once took a BBC micro board...
Be careful. This sounds like the case from
something else. Production
XXXs have 2 DB25 sockets, and both are RS232 ports (one actually carries
2 sets of RS232 signals, for a total of 3 serial ports). There is no
parallel port on the production machines....
My Stickleback board is marked as having RS432 and X.25, both on 25 pin ports. The RS432 port is wired through to the parallel port
on the back of the case,
and the X.25 port is wired through to the RS432 port on the back of the case
:-)
As I said, be careful!
Production machines don't have a conventional
power switch. The PSU is
controlled by a relay. There's a touch-sensitive contact on the front of
the box that turns the PSU on when touched.
Except on mine :-) There's a battery hanging loose inside the case, but
nothing resembling touch contacts; it appears that's all been bypassed on this
machine and the power switch works conventionally. I wonder what the correct
procedure of shutting it down safely is... (hopefully one of the various stock
Unix methods will work)
[Torch "Hard Disc"]
Are you sure it's SASI, not SCSI (not that it makes much difference.
This sounds a bit BBC-micro like!. There is a
Torch SCSI hard disk unit
for the beeb -- it's supposed to be rather rare. The one I've seen is a
plinth to fit under the nonitor contianing the SCSI interface (connectes
to the Beeb 1MHz bus) + hard disk and also a floppy drive (connects to the
normal Beeb disk controller). Maybe you have much the same unit built
into a case with the Beeb mainboard and monitor.
OK, been inside now - it is a BBC, with a Torch Z80 coprocessor. Torch SASI
interface hooked up to the BBC's 1MHz bus, with a Xebec interface hanging off [ Torch-725 ]
Definitely not a Quad-X
The QuadX I have is in the same case (basically)
as a production XXX. But
the mainboard is a singla 6U VME card, and there's a little 3 slot (I
think) VME cardcage in the bottom slice. Much the same PSU as
Hmmm... ok, what I have in that 725 is another BBC, a 68k Torch Atlas board, Torch SCSI interface, and a Xebec controller talking
to the full-height drive.
I need to go poke around in the documentation sometime. And I'll have to hassle
the guy I got these from about the rack-mount QX he has if this is in fact
something different :)
Information on what exactly a Torch Unicorn was would be useful, to be honest.
I thought it was a 68000 coprocessor for the Beeb.
Some people seem to think it was the name of a
complete machine, whilst others
think it was just the name for the range of Torch cards available for the BBC.
Just idly wondering if the 725 was a prototype Unicorn or something; I don't
have details of exactly what machines Torch made.
Good luck in finding that custom chip (oh, what did they call it?) that
handles video, etc...
This does not sound like a XXXX....
I do have a spare hard disk labelled as Quad X, those tape drives and
controller boards, a surplus Torch-stock PSU, complete ROM set, and the
complete schematics for the QX VME card. I'll just go build myself one... ;-) I'll keep an eye out when I go through the docs I
have. I noticed on the
previous owner's invoices for the XXX that I now have that he recieved it with
a tape drive. Maybe there'll be some info amongst everything that says how it
hooks up. The two tape drives I got were from XXX machines so I can grab model
Oh, it just hooks up to the SCSI bus... It's getting the software sorted
out that's the problem.
Still, it can't be worse than the PERQ3a. On that infernal machine, the
minor device numbers have no relation to the SCSI addresses at all!
easy enough that I can use them in other systems...
I've got the docs for the
boards but I don't know how detailed they are yet.
The Manta is something I know nothing about, so if you have technical
docs I'd be interested in probing you for information...
-tony
7849
days inactive
7849
days old
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ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
classiccmp.org＠irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk -
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