15 Dec
2003
15 Dec
'03
6:39 a.m.
what do people
recommend for scanning in terms of resolution, format etc?
--
400 - 600 dpi b&w Group 4 FAX encoded TIFFs
these can be converted simply to pdf's with Eric Smith's
"tumble" program.
I've scanned 1 million + pages with this encoding using
a Ricoh IS520 double-sided 30ppm scanner at 400dpi. All
of the documents at bitsavers.com/pdf are processed this
way now.
Pages with graphics are scanned as 100-200dpi JPEGS but
normally the text requires a bit of contrast enhancement
on these pages. tumble handles mixed JPEG and TIFF
documents.
15 Dec
15 Dec
7:09 a.m.
Thanks for your reply on a subject that I have an interest in :-). I
have some books that I use in my work that I would like to scan (for
personal use) to put on my laptop, to make it more convenient to carry
around. I have about 20,000 pages that I would like to do eventually. Here
is my question. I am trying to figure out what would be the cheapest way to
get them scanned or to do them myself. I don't mind buying a scanner. I
already have a very fast computer. So....what I would like to know is what
type of scanner should I buy or rent to do the job and what software do I
need. I have all the Adobe Acrobat stuff already. I called one company and
they gave me an extremely high price to so the scanning for me, and insisted
that I tear all the pages out of my books, so they can be fed into the auto
scanner. I prefer not to do that. What I need is a fast scanner where I
could do several hundred pages at a time, each day until I'm done if it will
save me a ton of money. They wanted something like $.08/page. I figure
that I can buy a nice scanner much cheaper than paying all that money to
have my stuff scanned ($1,700.00). What would you recommend, please?
Thanks,
-Dave
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk-bounces(a)classiccmp.org
[mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Al Kossow
Sent: Monday, December 15, 2003 12:40 PM
To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: Sheet-feed scanners
what do people
recommend for scanning in terms of resolution, format etc?
--
400 - 600 dpi b&w Group 4 FAX encoded TIFFs
these can be converted simply to pdf's with Eric Smith's
"tumble" program.
I've scanned 1 million + pages with this encoding using
a Ricoh IS520 double-sided 30ppm scanner at 400dpi. All
of the documents at bitsavers.com/pdf are processed this
way now.
Pages with graphics are scanned as 100-200dpi JPEGS but
normally the text requires a bit of contrast enhancement
on these pages. tumble handles mixed JPEG and TIFF
documents.
2:15 p.m.
I've done some scanning that Al has found acceptable using an HP 6390c with
Automatic
Document Feeder. It's much slower than Al's, but several hundred pages a
day is certainly
doable. I use PaperPort Deluxe 9 on Windows 2000 with the HP scanning
software to go
directly to PDF file format. You can directly touch up the PDF files using
PaperPort.
The only thing I haven't been able to do is insert page numbers like Al
does.
It sounds like you don't even need the Automatic Document Feeder, if you are
going to
be doing books manually. Several hundred pages a day manually will probably
wear you
out, especially if you really want to do 20,000 pages (100 days?).
The scanner cost $25 on eBay, but it was a gamble; a more realistic cost
there is $125.
PaperPort Deluxe 9 costs about $90, I think.
Dave
-----Original Message-----
From: cctech-bounces(a)classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-bounces@classiccmp.org]
On Behalf Of Dave
Sent: Monday, December 15, 2003 12:09 PM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Cc: aek(a)spies.com
Subject: RE: Sheet-feed scanners
Thanks for your reply on a subject that I have an interest in :-). I
have some books that I use in my work that I would like to scan (for
personal use) to put on my laptop, to make it more convenient to carry
around. I have about 20,000 pages that I would like to do eventually. Here
is my question. I am trying to figure out what would be the cheapest way to
get them scanned or to do them myself. I don't mind buying a scanner. I
already have a very fast computer. So....what I would like to know is what
type of scanner should I buy or rent to do the job and what software do I
need. I have all the Adobe Acrobat stuff already. I called one company and
they gave me an extremely high price to so the scanning for me, and insisted
that I tear all the pages out of my books, so they can be fed into the auto
scanner. I prefer not to do that. What I need is a fast scanner where I
could do several hundred pages at a time, each day until I'm done if it will
save me a ton of money. They wanted something like $.08/page. I figure
that I can buy a nice scanner much cheaper than paying all that money to
have my stuff scanned ($1,700.00). What would you recommend, please?
Thanks,
-Dave
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk-bounces(a)classiccmp.org
[mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Al Kossow
Sent: Monday, December 15, 2003 12:40 PM
To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: Sheet-feed scanners
what do people
recommend for scanning in terms of resolution, format etc?
--
400 - 600 dpi b&w Group 4 FAX encoded TIFFs these can be converted
simply to pdf's with Eric Smith's "tumble" program.
I've scanned 1 million + pages with this encoding using a Ricoh IS520
double-sided 30ppm scanner at 400dpi. All of the documents at
bitsavers.com/pdf are processed this way now.
Pages with graphics are scanned as 100-200dpi JPEGS but normally the
text requires a bit of contrast enhancement on these pages. tumble
handles mixed JPEG and TIFF documents.
6:03 p.m.
Well both of the model numbers mentioned in this thread (Ricoh 520 and
HP 6390c) are no longer available, though I suppose I might find used
(vintage? :-)
It really surprises me that there is no such product for < $1000.
Automatic sheet feed is the key. For manual scanning < $100 is
eeeeeeasy. It's the SHEET FEED > 25+ SHEETS that is the problem. I've
done a 18"-wide shelf of tube data books, it was a major undertaking
using a the manual page-flipping method. I've got 20' plus of stuff to
scan, all of it old enough, hand-set that it doesn't OCR.
I store stuff at 150 dpi jpeg, maybe that's not enough resolution, but
it prints out OK and reproduces detail OK.
tomj
On Mon, 2003-12-15 at 20:15, Classic Computers wrote:
I've done some scanning that Al has found
acceptable using an HP 6390c with
Automatic
Document Feeder. It's much slower than Al's, but several hundred pages a
day is certainly
doable. I use PaperPort Deluxe 9 on Windows 2000 with the HP scanning
software to go
directly to PDF file format. You can directly touch up the PDF files using
PaperPort.
The only thing I haven't been able to do is insert page numbers like Al
does.
It sounds like you don't even need the Automatic Document Feeder, if you are
going to
be doing books manually. Several hundred pages a day manually will probably
wear you
out, especially if you really want to do 20,000 pages (100 days?).
The scanner cost $25 on eBay, but it was a gamble; a more realistic cost
there is $125.
PaperPort Deluxe 9 costs about $90, I think.
Dave
-----Original Message-----
From: cctech-bounces(a)classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-bounces@classiccmp.org]
On Behalf Of Dave
Sent: Monday, December 15, 2003 12:09 PM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Cc: aek(a)spies.com
Subject: RE: Sheet-feed scanners
Thanks for your reply on a subject that I have an interest in :-). I
have some books that I use in my work that I would like to scan (for
personal use) to put on my laptop, to make it more convenient to carry
around. I have about 20,000 pages that I would like to do eventually. Here
is my question. I am trying to figure out what would be the cheapest way to
get them scanned or to do them myself. I don't mind buying a scanner. I
already have a very fast computer. So....what I would like to know is what
type of scanner should I buy or rent to do the job and what software do I
need. I have all the Adobe Acrobat stuff already. I called one company and
they gave me an extremely high price to so the scanning for me, and insisted
that I tear all the pages out of my books, so they can be fed into the auto
scanner. I prefer not to do that. What I need is a fast scanner where I
could do several hundred pages at a time, each day until I'm done if it will
save me a ton of money. They wanted something like $.08/page. I figure
that I can buy a nice scanner much cheaper than paying all that money to
have my stuff scanned ($1,700.00). What would you recommend, please?
Thanks,
-Dave
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk-bounces(a)classiccmp.org
[mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Al Kossow
Sent: Monday, December 15, 2003 12:40 PM
To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: Sheet-feed scanners
what do people
recommend for scanning in terms of resolution, format etc?
--
400 - 600 dpi b&w Group 4 FAX encoded TIFFs these can be converted
simply to pdf's with Eric Smith's "tumble" program.
I've scanned 1 million + pages with this encoding using a Ricoh IS520
double-sided 30ppm scanner at 400dpi. All of the documents at
bitsavers.com/pdf are processed this way now.
Pages with graphics are scanned as 100-200dpi JPEGS but normally the
text requires a bit of contrast enhancement on these pages. tumble
handles mixed JPEG and TIFF documents.
7:03 p.m.
Tom Jennings wrote:
Well both of the model numbers mentioned in this
thread (Ricoh 520 and
HP 6390c) are no longer available, though I suppose I might find used
(vintage? :-)
It really surprises me that there is no such product for < $1000.
Automatic sheet feed is the key. For manual scanning < $100 is
eeeeeeasy. It's the SHEET FEED > 25+ SHEETS that is the problem. I've
done a 18"-wide shelf of tube data books, it was a major undertaking
using a the manual page-flipping method. I've got 20' plus of stuff to
scan, all of it old enough, hand-set that it doesn't OCR.
I store stuff at 150 dpi jpeg, maybe that's not enough resolution, but
it prints out OK and reproduces detail OK.
tomj
I recently bought a epson perfection 3170 scanner. it has a USB 2
interface. 3200x6400 resolution native, suposedly. it costs $199.
There is an ADF option for $199 more. The ADF handles 30 pages, which
technically is more than your 25+, but the cost ($400 total) is well
under your $1000 ceiling.
I have to say that the software driving it is crap. It is a combination
of epson software and stripped down newsoft's paperport. It all works,
but it is unbelievably slow. The scan itself takes a few seconds, but
the rest is glacial.
For instance, launching the program takes 11 seconds on my 667 MHz
machine (running XP with 512 MB of RAM). OK, but that is just a thin
front end. Then I select "scan to application". 16 seconds more go by
before I get the control panel. Scan -- 5-10 seconds. Click done. 10
seconds more before I get a thumbnail view of what I just scanned.
Click OK, 10 seconds more before I get a panel showing me three or four
apps that are registered to process the image. Bleh. Want to process
another page? OK, do it all again, except you don't have to pay the
price of the first 11 seconds launching the front end. Yes, 50 seconds
more.
I sent their tech support an email with my problem (on the off chance it
was some known snafu and not just cruddy software), but no response a
week later.
16 Dec
16 Dec
2:19 a.m.
On Tue, 16 Dec 2003 01:03:17 -0800
Jim Battle <frustum(a)pacbell.net> wrote:
I recently bought a epson perfection 3170 scanner. it
has a USB 2
interface. 3200x6400 resolution native, suposedly. it costs $199.
There is an ADF option for $199 more.
I bought a used HP ScanJet 4c with ADF for
50,-EUR from a local dealer.
I bought it only to scan a single VAX CPU technical manual of 560 pages.
I used the Impressario scanner tool that comes with IRIX. Postprocessing
to PDF was done with the tiff tools / ImageMagic and Ghostscript. I
scaned in 150 DPI B/W and used G4 compression.
The scanner is now a useful tool to make pictures of PCBs. Ahh, reminds
me, I have to scan those unknowen QBus boards... Unfortunately I can't
feed the PCBs with the ADF. ;-)
--
tsch??,
Jochen
Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/
8:55 a.m.
Tom Jennings wrote:
I store stuff at 150 dpi jpeg, maybe that's not
enough resolution, but
it prints out OK and reproduces detail OK.
While I very much appreciate the stuff you've put online, I respectfully
disagree with your "reproduced detail OK", at least in the general case.
For text and line art, JPEG *completely* sucks. It makes the text and
line art blurry. JPEG was intended for continuous-tone images, and
throws away high-frequency content. And guess what. Text and line
art have a LOT of high-frequency content. That's why it blurs them.
For text and line art, lossless bilevel compression such as ITU T.4 and
T.6 compression (known as Fax Group 3 and Group 4) are much better, as
are JBIG and JBIG2. G3 and G4 can be packaged in TIFF files. G3, G4,
and JBIG can be packaged in PDF files. JBIG and JBIG2 have slightly
better compression than G4, but they are patented so I avoid them.
G4 works quite well.
For pages that contain ONLY text and line art, there is literally
NO advantage to JPEG compression. It yields less compression and
worse results.
The thing that's really annoying when processing scanned documents
is dealing with pages that have a mix of text or line art and continuous
tone images. Although using JPEG for such pages is not optimal, it is
certainly the path of least resistance, so I don't complain about it.
A better solution (but much more difficult and/or time-consuming) is
to composite the final page image from a G4 image of the text and line
art and JPEG of the image(s). However, there are no freely available
tools to do this, and I'm not even aware of anything commercial that
can do this automatically. I've experimented some with putting support
for this form of compositing in my "tumble" program, but without
software to automatically identify the images, it would still be very
time-consuming.
Eric
4:17 p.m.
On Tue, 2003-12-16 at 14:55, Eric Smith wrote:
Tom Jennings wrote:
OK, I'll look into this before the next job. Portability was more of an
issue than disk space, which I generally don't care about (there's
always more next year).
I store stuff at 150 dpi jpeg, maybe that's
not enough resolution, but
it prints out OK and reproduces detail OK.
While I very much appreciate the stuff you've put online, I respectfully
disagree with your "reproduced detail OK", at least in the general case.
15 Dec
15 Dec
6:27 p.m.
If you don't want to chop the spine off the books, there are
photocopiers that will scan right up to one edge specifically
to allow you to hang a book over the edge and still
get the whole page. I assume that these days such photcopiers
are likely to be multifunction network devices (scanner, printer,
photocopier) so there *should* be scanners that will do what
you need.
You'll definitely want a fast sacnner though, standing there
while turning pages gets fairly boring fairly quickly!
I know of nothing that will turn the pages of the book for you :-)
Antonio
--
---------------
Antonio Carlini arcarlini(a)iee.org
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk-bounces(a)classiccmp.org
[mailto:cctalk-bounces@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Dave
Sent: Monday, December 15, 2003 9:09 PM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Cc: aek(a)spies.com
Subject: RE: Sheet-feed scanners
Thanks for your reply on a subject that I have an
interest in :-). I have some books that I use in my work
that I would like to scan (for personal use) to put on my
laptop, to make it more convenient to carry around. I have
about 20,000 pages that I would like to do eventually. Here
is my question. I am trying to figure out what would be the
cheapest way to get them scanned or to do them myself. I
don't mind buying a scanner. I already have a very fast
computer. So....what I would like to know is what type of
scanner should I buy or rent to do the job and what software
do I need. I have all the Adobe Acrobat stuff already. I
called one company and they gave me an extremely high price
to so the scanning for me, and insisted that I tear all the
pages out of my books, so they can be fed into the auto
scanner. I prefer not to do that. What I need is a fast
scanner where I could do several hundred pages at a time,
each day until I'm done if it will save me a ton of money.
They wanted something like $.08/page. I figure that I can
buy a nice scanner much cheaper than paying all that money to
have my stuff scanned ($1,700.00). What would you recommend, please?
16 Dec
16 Dec
5:27 a.m.
On Tue, 2003-12-16 at 00:27, Antonio Carlini wrote:
I know of nothing that will turn the pages of the book
for you :-)
Yes, but cutting the spines off and feeding the stack is often fine,
then I don't care as much about speed. Computer manuals, listings (if
not too thin or dog-eared), catalogs, datasheets, etc.
For example, I borrowed an LGP-21 Hardware Reference manual, and had it
professionally copied (at no small expense). I had an additional copy
made and not bound, so I could sheet-feed it.
I of course also have scan projects that are NOT acceptable to cut, and
those will have to be done by hand.
7676
days inactive
7678
days old
9 comments
8 participants
participants (8)
-
aek＠spies.com -
arcarlini＠iee.org -
classiccmp＠earthlink.net -
d-gordon＠sbcglobal.net -
eric＠brouhaha.com -
frustum＠pacbell.net -
jkunz＠unixag-kl.fh-kl.de -
tomj＠wps.com