7 Oct
2020
7 Oct
'20
5:07 a.m.
Hi folks,
I am looking for the following software products for a PDP-11, ideally to
be run on RSX-11M.
RJE/HASP
2780/3780 Protocol Emulator
My aim is to be able to submit a remote job from a simulated PDP-11 on simh
to a simulated IBM/370 on Hercules. The products that I mentioned seem the
obvious way to do this, but anything that works would be helpful.
Cheers
Peter Allan
7 Oct
7 Oct
9:41 a.m.
On Wed, Oct 7, 2020 at 5:07 AM Peter Allan via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
I am looking for the following software products for a
PDP-11, ideally to
be run on RSX-11M.
RJE/HASP
2780/3780 Protocol Emulator
I used to do this with specialty hardware...
http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/softwareResults/Software_Results_Comboard_Broc…
... and there were "non-intelligent" mostly-software HASP and 3780
emulators, but I say mostly-software because you still needed a serial
interface that could do Bisync (BSC) - like the DP(V)11 or DU(V)11.
ISTR these chewed up a bunch of CPU, even on a VAX, and that's why we
had a market for a $2,500 card and $20,000 license.
While I do have all the code (and a fair amount of the hardware) from
Software Results, writing a COMBOARD emulator would be rather complex
- the core is a 68000 (easy enough to start from) with a COM5025 or
Z8530 for a USART (probably not a ready-to-drop-in chunk of code) plus
a DMA engine to the host bus implemented in two ways (different
COMBOARD models). That last bit would require deep understanding of
the original hardware.
There were also intelligent sync serial engines for this from other
vendors, including DEC (KMC11, and probably a later one but the device
name escapes me).
My aim is to be able to submit a remote job from a
simulated PDP-11 on simh
to a simulated IBM/370 on Hercules. The products that I mentioned seem the
obvious way to do this, but anything that works would be helpful.
I think the idea is fantastic. At the very least, after you identify
a suitable software package for your target, there would need to be
emulation written for whatever sync serial devices that the package
can talk to, for the PDP-11 side. I have no idea what sort of sync
serial emulation is provided by Hercules, but if you can configure a
TCP socket that pretends to be a BSC port, then that's what you'd
need.
This is eminently do-able, but would likely require a fair bit of
plumbing to get operational.
-ethan
9:46 a.m.
I do have a bunch of Unibus 3270/X.25 boards from a third party vendor.
Big big boards with a bunch of Z80's on them to do all the protocol
work. Anyone interested in me digging them out and figuring out what
they were?
On 10/7/2020 9:41 AM, Ethan Dicks via cctalk wrote:
On Wed, Oct 7, 2020 at 5:07 AM Peter Allan via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
I am looking for the following software products
for a PDP-11, ideally to
be run on RSX-11M.
RJE/HASP
2780/3780 Protocol Emulator
I used to do this with specialty hardware...
http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/softwareResults/Software_Results_Comboard_Broc…
... and there were "non-intelligent" mostly-software HASP and 3780
emulators, but I say mostly-software because you still needed a serial
interface that could do Bisync (BSC) - like the DP(V)11 or DU(V)11.
ISTR these chewed up a bunch of CPU, even on a VAX, and that's why we
had a market for a $2,500 card and $20,000 license.
While I do have all the code (and a fair amount of the hardware) from
Software Results, writing a COMBOARD emulator would be rather complex
- the core is a 68000 (easy enough to start from) with a COM5025 or
Z8530 for a USART (probably not a ready-to-drop-in chunk of code) plus
a DMA engine to the host bus implemented in two ways (different
COMBOARD models). That last bit would require deep understanding of
the original hardware.
There were also intelligent sync serial engines for this from other
vendors, including DEC (KMC11, and probably a later one but the device
name escapes me).
My aim is to be able to submit a remote job from
a simulated PDP-11 on simh
to a simulated IBM/370 on Hercules. The products that I mentioned seem the
obvious way to do this, but anything that works would be helpful.
I think the idea is fantastic. At the very least, after you identify
a suitable software package for your target, there would need to be
emulation written for whatever sync serial devices that the package
can talk to, for the PDP-11 side. I have no idea what sort of sync
serial emulation is provided by Hercules, but if you can configure a
TCP socket that pretends to be a BSC port, then that's what you'd
need.
This is eminently do-able, but would likely require a fair bit of
plumbing to get operational.
-ethan
10:44 a.m.
On 10/7/20 6:46 AM, Chris Zach via cctalk wrote:
I do have a bunch of Unibus 3270/X.25 boards from a
third party vendor.
ACC (Advanced Computer Communications)?
If you can find it, the PDP-11 RJE product was released to DECUS
I have it on fiche, but that would be tedious to reconstruct.
I don't think the comms requirements were that onerous. I thought it
worked with just a DU or DV11 single-line non-DMA synchronous controller.
The original RJEs couldn't run over 9600 bps. Supporting multiple synchronous
channels required the fancier hardware.
11:29 a.m.
That sounds like it, and I might have been the one to upload the
drivers. Let me find one in the shed and take a picture.
C
On 10/7/2020 10:44 AM, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote:
On 10/7/20 6:46 AM, Chris Zach via cctalk wrote:
I do have a bunch of Unibus 3270/X.25 boards from
a third party vendor.
ACC (Advanced Computer Communications)?
If you can find it, the PDP-11 RJE product was released to DECUS
I have it on fiche, but that would be tedious to reconstruct.
I don't think the comms requirements were that onerous. I thought it
worked with just a DU or DV11 single-line non-DMA synchronous controller.
The original RJEs couldn't run over 9600 bps. Supporting multiple
synchronous
channels required the fancier hardware.
12:36 p.m.
On 10/7/20 8:29 AM, Chris Zach via cctalk wrote:
That sounds like it, and I might have been the one to
upload the drivers. Let me find one in the shed and take a picture.
https://pubs.usgs.gov/of/1988/0185/report.pdf
https://pubs.usgs.gov/of/1991/0262/report.pdf
from Larry Baker
they were popular X.25 cards that had BSD support
I think that's what we used at Apple to get on NSFnet
12:37 p.m.
On 10/7/20 9:36 AM, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote:
On 10/7/20 8:29 AM, Chris Zach via cctalk wrote:
https://books.google.com/books?id=UB0EAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA25
That sounds like it, and I might have been the
one to upload the drivers. Let me find one in the shed and take a picture.
https://pubs.usgs.gov/of/1988/0185/report.pdf
https://pubs.usgs.gov/of/1991/0262/report.pdf
from Larry Baker
they were popular X.25 cards that had BSD support
I think that's what we used at Apple to get on NSFnet
2 p.m.
Interesting. I think these came from that E-COM US Postal Service thing
in the late 1980's where the USPS built a pilot system to allow you to
go into a post office, give them a letter, then they would scan the
letter, route it through a network of pdp11's to the destination PO
where it was then printed out and delivered. Yes, I think this was when
a Fax machine was a very very big thing.
Interesting part is they used these boards for interconnections. The
actual node was a pdp11/23 CPU with 256kb of memory, one or more of
these things (which if I recall could handle 8 serial lines each), a
multifunction board with clock, parallel interface (for printer), serial
ports, and of course a pair of RM02 disk drives.
Before you consider that to be an impossible system, each system had a
special Plessy bus in a BA11 type chassis that had a voltage regulator
to make the +12, a Q bus/Unibus backplane that had a Plessy Quineverter
to talk to the Unibus stuff. Even the RM02 so the Quniverter did have
DMA capability but I don't recall if it has a unibus map (I have one or
two of those here somewhere as well. I have a lot of stuff)
This is how Doug and I met at Alan Frisbee's place in Greenbelt to split
a horde of RM02 disk drives and other stuff. Man this is going back
years, but I think I still have a lot of the documentation for this
project somewhere in the paper piles, it was a weird concept.
On 10/7/2020 12:36 PM, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote:
On 10/7/20 8:29 AM, Chris Zach via cctalk wrote:
That sounds like it, and I might have been the
one to upload the
drivers. Let me find one in the shed and take a picture.
https://pubs.usgs.gov/of/1988/0185/report.pdf
https://pubs.usgs.gov/of/1991/0262/report.pdf
from Larry Baker
they were popular X.25 cards that had BSD support
I think that's what we used at Apple to get on NSFnet
11:06 a.m.
On Wed, Oct 7, 2020 at 9:46 AM Chris Zach via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
I do have a bunch of Unibus 3270/X.25 boards from a
third party vendor.
Big big boards with a bunch of Z80's on them to do all the protocol
work. Anyone interested in me digging them out and figuring out what
they were?
Do you have a way to share photos? I'd be looking for vendor labels,
EPROM labels, and especially legible chip photos of 40 or 48-pin DIP
chips (one or two of which are likely to be USARTs - common ones to
look for are COM5025 and Zilog Z8530)
We used the COM5025 on our Unibus COMBOARDs (one model for Bisync and
one for SNA, but because of memory differences between our own boards,
not for protocol reasons). Our VAXBI and Qbus boards, designed after
1984, used the Z8530. We had HASP, 3780, and SNA available for the
Qbus board.
There are likely other chips, but those are the ones I have direct
experience with (and code examples for)
-ethan
12:11 p.m.
Ok, here are pics of three of them that I dug out. Ring any bells?
https://i.imgur.com/YZ4pUtY.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/QcHbkjY.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/i68mtFW.jpg
Not as cool as the Chaosnet boards, but still interesting. Each board
has a Z80A SIO, DMA, DMA,DMA, CPU,and a CTC whatever that was. Three
EPROMS. One doesn't have the SIO but does have 4 PROMs and one EPROM.
Man, they were odd.
On 10/7/2020 11:06 AM, Ethan Dicks wrote:
On Wed, Oct 7, 2020 at 9:46 AM Chris Zach via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
I do have a bunch of Unibus 3270/X.25 boards from
a third party vendor.
Big big boards with a bunch of Z80's on them to do all the protocol
work. Anyone interested in me digging them out and figuring out what
they were?
Do you have a way to share photos? I'd be looking for vendor labels,
EPROM labels, and especially legible chip photos of 40 or 48-pin DIP
chips (one or two of which are likely to be USARTs - common ones to
look for are COM5025 and Zilog Z8530)
We used the COM5025 on our Unibus COMBOARDs (one model for Bisync and
one for SNA, but because of memory differences between our own boards,
not for protocol reasons). Our VAXBI and Qbus boards, designed after
1984, used the Z8530. We had HASP, 3780, and SNA available for the
Qbus board.
There are likely other chips, but those are the ones I have direct
experience with (and code examples for)
-ethan
1:52 p.m.
On 10/07/2020 11:11 AM Chris Zach via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
has a Z80A SIO, DMA, DMA,DMA, CPU,and a CTC whatever that was. Three
CTC is a Counter Timer Circuit -- Two(?) sixteen bit timers with various modes and
input/output options.
10:14 a.m.
On 10/7/2020 8:41 AM, Ethan Dicks via cctalk wrote:
On Wed, Oct 7, 2020 at 5:07 AM Peter Allan via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
Hercules does have 2703 emulation, and bisync emulation does seem to be
present in SimH. I think both support some level of TCP, so you might
be able to lash them up that way - but I would expect some hiccups along
the way. But that would indeed still leave the software question from
the original post.
I remembered reading a man page for 2780/3780 emulation under UNIX back
in the day (turns out it was for AT&T PWB UNIX), and found it:
http://quintile.net/pwb/rje_guide.pdf Manual
Code seems to exist in
http://minnie.tuhs.org/Archive/Distributions/USDL/spencer_pwb.tar.gz
(And maybe other copies of PWB UNIX at tuhs.org)
And then there is this, too, from 15-17 years ago, which would take work
to move to the PDP-11, of course, as this is a PC program.
https://hercules-390.yahoogroups.narkive.com/gGgUdOKm/rje80-3780-emulator-f…
It still seems to exist in the files area of hercules-390 in groups.io
under the "Yahoo Group files archive".
I'd love to do the same thing with a UNIVAC 1004 talking to an 1108
(actually, an IBM 1410 with a telegraph attachment emulating the 1004),
but I don't think the current modern OS/2200 emulation would support it. ;)
JRJ
I am looking for the following software products
for a PDP-11, ideally to
be run on RSX-11M.
RJE/HASP
2780/3780 Protocol Emulator
I used to do this with specialty hardware...
http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/softwareResults/Software_Results_Comboard_Broc…
...
My aim is to be able to submit a remote job from a simulated PDP-11 on simh
to a simulated IBM/370 on Hercules. The products that I mentioned seem the
obvious way to do this, but anything that works would be helpful.
I think the idea is fantastic. At the very least, after you identify
a suitable software package for your target, there would need to be
emulation written for whatever sync serial devices that the package
can talk to, for the PDP-11 side. I have no idea what sort of sync
serial emulation is provided by Hercules, but if you can configure a
TCP socket that pretends to be a BSC port, then that's what you'd
need.
This is eminently do-able, but would likely require a fair bit of
plumbing to get operational.
-ethan
10:19 a.m.
On Oct 7, 2020, at 10:14 AM, Jay Jaeger via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
On 10/7/2020 8:41 AM, Ethan Dicks via cctalk wrote:
I would think that the simulators have very little to do here, at least on the PDP11 end.
If a sync serial device is emulated as a stream of bytes, the rest is up to the software.
At least in the 2780 emulation case, where BISYNC protocol handling is in software and the
serial ports just are raw byte pipes.
Then it's a matter of finding RJ2780 software. I know it exists for RSTS, though
I've never used it. (It uses the KG11 to accelerate CRC processing, I'm not sure
if that's optional or required.) RJ2780 was a product family available with a number
of operating systems so I'd assume RSTS isn't the only OS that had it. Finding a
copy might be an interesting exercise -- that appears to be the road block Peter is
talking about.
paul
On Wed, Oct 7, 2020 at 5:07 AM Peter Allan via
cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
Hercules does have 2703 emulation, and bisync emulation does seem to be
present in SimH. I think both support some level of TCP, so you might
be able to lash them up that way - but I would expect some hiccups along
the way. But that would indeed still leave the software question from
the original post. I am looking for the following software products
for a PDP-11, ideally to
be run on RSX-11M.
RJE/HASP
2780/3780 Protocol Emulator
11 a.m.
On Wed, Oct 7, 2020 at 10:20 AM Paul Koning via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
>> On Wed, Oct 7, 2020 at 5:07 AM Peter Allan
via cctalk
>> <cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
>>> I am looking for the following software products for a PDP-11, ideally to
>>> be run on RSX-11M.
>>>
>>> RJE/HASP
>>> 2780/3780 Protocol Emulator
> Hercules does have 2703 emulation, and bisync
emulation does seem to be
> present in SimH. I think both support some level of TCP, so you might
> be able to lash them up that way - but I would expect some hiccups along
> the way. But that would indeed still leave the software question from
> the original post.
I found this looking for info on Hercules and 2703 emulation...
https://hercules-390.yahoogroups.narkive.com/520q2GNv/a-hercules-rfc-about-…
I would think that the simulators have very little to
do here, at least on the PDP11 end. If a sync serial device is emulated as a stream of
bytes, the rest is up to the software.
Yes. The CPU simulation on the PDP-11 side has nothing special to do,
but I don't see that there is device emulation for DU11 or DV11 sync
serial cards, and the application code running on the PDP-11 side is
going to want to see those device registers. The transport layer is
immaterial, of course.
At least in the 2780 emulation case, where BISYNC
protocol handling is in software and the serial ports just are raw byte pipes.
Yes, Bisync is just a stream of raw bytes, but ISTR the COM5025 (the
common 1970s USART for this purpose) might throw in flag bytes or
something minor that the application doesn't know about or see, but
the other end sees in the received byte stream. It's been a few
decades since I've scoped a line, and I'd have to pull our code to see
what we fed to the COM5025 on the COMBOARD.
Then it's a matter of finding RJ2780 software. I
know it exists for RSTS, though I've never used it. (It uses the KG11 to accelerate
CRC processing, I'm not sure if that's optional or required.) RJ2780 was a
product family available with a number of operating systems so I'd assume RSTS
isn't the only OS that had it. Finding a copy might be an interesting exercise --
that appears to be the road block Peter is talking about.
paul
2:08 p.m.
On Oct 7, 2020, at 11:00 AM, Ethan Dicks
<ethan.dicks at gmail.com> wrote:
...
Not flags, that's an HDLC concept. Bisync uses sync characters (as DDCMP does) but
instead of doing framing by byte counts it does it by a frame terminator, and for
transparency if that occurs inside the data it has to be escaped.
Bisync is usually associated with older IBM protocols like 2780, but it's occasionally
found elsewhere. One of my nightmare memories is debugging the communication between a
PDP-11/70 running Typeset-11 (on IAS) and a Harris 2200 display advertising graphics
editing workstation. That runs Bisync, half duplex, multipoint, with modem control, on an
async comm link -- DL11-E devices at the PDP-11 end. Yikes. At our customer site in
downtown Philadelphia, it tended to lock up, but only during the "lobster shift"
-- midnight to 8 am.
I don't really know anything about that particular protocol beyond what I just
mentioned, but I'm fairly sure it didn't have anything to do with IBM products.
paul
At least in the 2780 emulation case, where BISYNC
protocol handling is in software and the serial ports just are raw byte pipes.
Yes, Bisync is just a stream of raw bytes, but ISTR the COM5025 (the
common 1970s USART for this purpose) might throw in flag bytes or
something minor that the application doesn't know about or see, but
the other end sees in the received byte stream. 
10 Oct
10 Oct
7:11 a.m.
ons 2020-10-07 klockan 14:08 -0400 skrev Paul Koning via cctalk:
Not flags, that's an HDLC concept. Bisync uses sync characters (as
DDCMP does) but instead of doing framing by byte counts it does it by
a frame terminator, and for transparency if that occurs inside the
data it has to be escaped.
Bit stuffing ? ie if the payload contains a sequence which is reserved
add a an escape for example an A after three consecutive spaces.
ON the receiving end remove the A, if it came after three spaces.
Four consecutive spaces in the wire stream, that is a frame marker...
Bisync is usually associated with older IBM protocols like 2780, but
it's occasionally found elsewhere. One of my nightmare memories is
debugging the communication between a PDP-11/70 running Typeset-11
(on IAS) and a Harris 2200 display advertising graphics editing
workstation. That runs Bisync, half duplex, multipoint, with modem
control, on an async comm link -- DL11-E devices at the PDP-11
end. Yikes. At our customer site in downtown Philadelphia, it
tended to lock up, but only during the "lobster shift" -- midnight to
8 am.
I don't really know anything about that particular protocol beyond
what I just mentioned, but I'm fairly sure it didn't have anything to
do with IBM products.
paul
8:35 a.m.
Den l?r 10 okt. 2020 kl 13:23 skrev Stefan Skoglund via cctalk <
cctalk at classiccmp.org>:
ons 2020-10-07 klockan 14:08 -0400 skrev Paul Koning
via cctalk:
Bitstuffing is used in HDLC and SDLC and is where you insert a 0 after
five consecutive ones. That is to differentiate it from the flag which has
a zero followed by six ones and then yet another zero.
Not flags, that's an HDLC concept. Bisync uses sync characters (as
DDCMP does) but instead of doing framing by byte counts it does it by
a frame terminator, and for transparency if that occurs inside the
data it has to be escaped.
Bit stuffing ? ie if the payload contains a sequence which is reserved
add a an escape for example an A after three consecutive spaces.
ON the receiving end remove the A, if it came after three spaces.
Four consecutive spaces in the wire stream, that is a frame marker...
BSC has the concept of escape character. They use the DLE which is 0x10 in
EBCDIC.
BSC can operate in transparent and non-transparent mode. Transparent mode
text is initiated with DLE STX while non-transparent text is just STX.
>
> Bisync is usually associated with older IBM protocols like 2780, but
> it's occasionally found elsewhere.
BSC was widely used to connect various IBM terminals like 2260 and 3270.
BSC has a polling concept with the ENQ character which is used to poll
terminals on a shared line for data to send.
One of my nightmare memories is
/Mattis
debugging the communication between a PDP-11/70
running Typeset-11
(on IAS) and a Harris 2200 display advertising graphics editing
workstation. That runs Bisync, half duplex, multipoint, with modem
control, on an async comm link -- DL11-E devices at the PDP-11
end. Yikes. At our customer site in downtown Philadelphia, it
tended to lock up, but only during the "lobster shift" -- midnight to
8 am.
I don't really know anything about that particular protocol beyond
what I just mentioned, but I'm fairly sure it didn't have anything to
do with IBM products.
paul
7 Oct
7 Oct
11:09 a.m.
On Wed, Oct 7, 2020 at 10:14 AM Jay Jaeger via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
I remembered reading a man page for 2780/3780
emulation under UNIX back
in the day (turns out it was for AT&T PWB UNIX), and found it:
http://quintile.net/pwb/rje_guide.pdf Manual
Code seems to exist in
http://minnie.tuhs.org/Archive/Distributions/USDL/spencer_pwb.tar.gz
(And maybe other copies of PWB UNIX at tuhs.org)
I don't have links, but I remember there being a 2780 emulation
package for Ultrix-32 (VAX). I don't remember right now if it was as
far back as v1.1; I could be remembering something from v.2.0, the
other version we were running in the late 80s.
-ethan
12:06 p.m.
On Wed, Oct 7, 2020 at 8:37 AM Ethan Dicks via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
On Wed, Oct 7, 2020 at 5:07 AM Peter Allan via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
I was curious about this DEC M8704 DMS11-DA that sold cheap a few days
ago. It has eight SMC COM5025 "Multi-Protocol Universal Synchronous
Receiver/Transmitter USYNR/T" chips:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/373243388363
Apparently it can't do anything on its own. It needs to be connected
to a UNIBUS through a companion KMC11 processor board, which might not
be too common if someone wanted to put together a working
configuration.
I am looking for the following software products
for a PDP-11, ideally to
be run on RSX-11M.
RJE/HASP
2780/3780 Protocol Emulator
I used to do this with specialty hardware...
http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/softwareResults/Software_Results_Comboard_Broc…
... and there were "non-intelligent" mostly-software HASP and 3780
emulators, but I say mostly-software because you still needed a serial
interface that could do Bisync (BSC) - like the DP(V)11 or DU(V)11.
ISTR these chewed up a bunch of CPU, even on a VAX, and that's why we
had a market for a $2,500 card and $20,000 license.
While I do have all the code (and a fair amount of the hardware) from
Software Results, writing a COMBOARD emulator would be rather complex
- the core is a 68000 (easy enough to start from) with a COM5025 or
Z8530 for a USART (probably not a ready-to-drop-in chunk of code) plus
a DMA engine to the host bus implemented in two ways (different
COMBOARD models). That last bit would require deep understanding of
the original hardware.
There were also intelligent sync serial engines for this from other
vendors, including DEC (KMC11, and probably a later one but the device
name escapes me).
1:32 p.m.
On Wed, Oct 7, 2020 at 12:07 PM Glen Slick via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
On Wed, Oct 7, 2020 at 8:37 AM Ethan Dicks wrote:
I have very dim memories of that arrangement - it was definitely
ordinary that you had a dedicated I/O processor to run multiple lines.
Part of the salable benefit of the COMBOARD was having an 8MHz 68000
manage the actual protocol - it moved block file data to/from the DEC
host via DMA. The M68K wrapped it up as needed, handled
re-transmission, etc.
Using a KMC11 is similar, IIRC, certainly at the bottom levels.
-ethan
-ethan
On Wed, Oct 7, 2020 at 5:07 AM Peter Allan wrote:
I was curious about this DEC M8704 DMS11-DA that sold cheap a few days
ago. It has eight SMC COM5025 "Multi-Protocol Universal Synchronous
Receiver/Transmitter USYNR/T" chips:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/373243388363
Apparently it can't do anything on its own. It needs to be connected
to a UNIBUS through a companion KMC11 processor board, which might not
be too common if someone wanted to put together a working
configuration. RJE/HASP
2780/3780 Protocol Emulator
I used to do this with specialty hardware...
http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/softwareResults/Software_Results_Comboard_Broc…
There were also intelligent sync serial engines for this from other
vendors, including DEC (KMC11, and probably a later one but the device
name escapes me). 
1:40 p.m.
On 10/7/2020 10:32 AM, Ethan Dicks via cctalk wrote:
On Wed, Oct 7, 2020 at 12:07 PM Glen Slick via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
The protocol HASP used was unique because they had a novel BSC protocol
handshake to reduce delays on the link due to handshake latency.
The normal protocol had an ack requirement that involved dead time on
the link till the ACK had returned.? The HASP workstation protocol sent
an ack on the front end? of another record if the prior record came and
streamed data with NAKs as needed stopping and causing handshake
delays.? A good link was much better used than a usual BSC link.
Also if you were printing an reading job submission data it got an
almost full duplex use of the link speed going as the acks for prior
records were prefaced on the front of the next data, rather than a
standalone turn of the link just for ack.
Hasp had a term for their data protocol that's not come back to me.
The link between Hercules and whatever simulator's BSC would need to be
able to handle that bit of trickery.
Thanks
Jim
On Wed, Oct 7, 2020 at 8:37 AM Ethan Dicks
wrote:
I have very dim memories of that arrangement - it was definitely
ordinary that you had a dedicated I/O processor to run multiple lines.
Part of the salable benefit of the COMBOARD was having an 8MHz 68000
manage the actual protocol - it moved block file data to/from the DEC
host via DMA. The M68K wrapped it up as needed, handled
re-transmission, etc.
Using a KMC11 is similar, IIRC, certainly at the bottom levels.
-ethan
-ethan
On Wed, Oct 7, 2020 at 5:07 AM Peter Allan
wrote:
I was curious about this DEC M8704 DMS11-DA that sold cheap a
few days
ago. It has eight SMC COM5025 "Multi-Protocol Universal Synchronous
Receiver/Transmitter USYNR/T" chips:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/373243388363
Apparently it can't do anything on its own. It needs to be connected
to a UNIBUS through a companion KMC11 processor board, which might not
be too common if someone wanted to put together a working
configuration. RJE/HASP
2780/3780 Protocol Emulator
I used to do this with specialty hardware...
http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/softwareResults/Software_Results_Comboard_Broc…
There were also intelligent sync serial engines for this from other
vendors, including DEC (KMC11, and probably a later one but the device
name escapes me).
1:57 p.m.
On Wed, Oct 7, 2020 at 1:50 PM Al Kossow via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
On 10/7/20 10:32 AM, Ethan Dicks via cctalk wrote:
Similar in principle, not in implementation.
COMBOARDs were quite well behaved. The DMA engine was PIO on the M68K
side so max bandwidth, even from a tight Bcc loop, was ~200KB/sec
-ethan
Using a KMC11 is similar
Other than the KMC being a Unibus bandwidth hog.
1:55 p.m.
For those that might want to look at the roots, there are a few
references at the bottom of this page to IBM Bisync docs.
http://www.3780-emulation.com/3780-emulation-bisync-protocol.htm
The other publication which really contains the meat of Bisync is the
manual for the Data 100 2780/3780 workstation
I thought I ran across a PDF of the manual one time, but couldn't find
it looking just now. Here's what I could fine on Data 100.
http://www.cbi.umn.edu/resources/mncomphist-d.html
If we can scare up the docs, they go into adequate detail to make (or
debug) an RJE workstation
-ethan
2:03 p.m.
On Oct 7, 2020, at 12:06 PM, Glen Slick via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
...
I was curious about this DEC M8704 DMS11-DA that sold cheap a few days
ago. It has eight SMC COM5025 "Multi-Protocol Universal Synchronous
Receiver/Transmitter USYNR/T" chips:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/373243388363
Apparently it can't do anything on its own. It needs to be connected
to a UNIBUS through a companion KMC11 processor board, which might not
be too common if someone wanted to put together a working
configuration.
That model number isn't familiar.
A KMC-11 is simply a microprocessor that sits on the Unibus and does Unibus cycles to
another device on behalf of the host. The idea is to offload operations so the host can
ask for block transfers and the KMC does the individual character I/O operations needed.
That said, it clearly is not correct that "it can't do anything on its own".
The KMC-11 reaches into the device via its Unibus CSRs. If you can find a description of
its operation, or reverse engineer it, you can clearly write a device driver for it that
doesn't rely on a KMC-11.
paul
2:29 p.m.
On Wed, Oct 7, 2020 at 11:04 AM Paul Koning <paulkoning at comcast.net> wrote:
Well it does appear that M8704 DMS11-DA "can't do anything on its own"
directly through the UNIBUS. From a quick visual inspection it only
has power and grant continuity traces on the card edge connectors. The
connection to the controlling KMC-11 is through the 40-pin Berg
connector. So without a KMC-11 an alternate interface through the
40-pin Berg connector would be needed.
On Oct 7, 2020, at 12:06 PM, Glen Slick via
cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
...
I was curious about this DEC M8704 DMS11-DA that sold cheap a few days
ago. It has eight SMC COM5025 "Multi-Protocol Universal Synchronous
Receiver/Transmitter USYNR/T" chips:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/373243388363
Apparently it can't do anything on its own. It needs to be connected
to a UNIBUS through a companion KMC11 processor board, which might not
be too common if someone wanted to put together a working
configuration.
That model number isn't familiar.
A KMC-11 is simply a microprocessor that sits on the Unibus and does Unibus cycles to
another device on behalf of the host. The idea is to offload operations so the host can
ask for block transfers and the KMC does the individual character I/O operations needed.
That said, it clearly is not correct that "it can't do anything on its
own". The KMC-11 reaches into the device via its Unibus CSRs. If you can find a
description of its operation, or reverse engineer it, you can clearly write a device
driver for it that doesn't rely on a KMC-11.
paul 
6:26 p.m.
Folks seem to be mostly going at hardware here, but the o.p. indicated
emulation. I'll point out, since I haven't seen mention of it, that
Kevin Jordan's Nostalgic Computing Center has many of its emulated
systems linked via RJE - the Cybers, the Primes, and the VM/CMS machine
at least.
http://www.nostalgiccomputing.org/index.html
De
7:15 p.m.
Well, the solution is simple: Build a UNibus to USB interface so SIMH
can use the physical devices properly. That can't be too hard...
C
On 10/7/2020 6:26 PM, Dennis Boone via cctalk wrote:
Folks seem to be mostly going at hardware here, but
the o.p. indicated
emulation. I'll point out, since I haven't seen mention of it, that
Kevin Jordan's Nostalgic Computing Center has many of its emulated
systems linked via RJE - the Cybers, the Primes, and the VM/CMS machine
at least.
http://www.nostalgiccomputing.org/index.html
De
7:41 p.m.
On Wed, Oct 7, 2020 at 6:26 PM Dennis Boone via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
Folks seem to be mostly going at hardware here, but
the o.p. indicated
emulation.
Indeed. I brought up real hardware because that is the foundation of
my knowledge of RJE but I wasn't intending to propose that as a
solution. I've been describing a way to tackle this problem with
emulation, including having to write an emulator for a DEC sync serial
board since that part is nowhere to be found right now.
I'll point out, since I haven't seen mention
of it, that
Kevin Jordan's Nostalgic Computing Center has many of its emulated
systems linked via RJE - the Cybers, the Primes, and the VM/CMS machine
at least.
http://www.nostalgiccomputing.org/index.html
That's definitely cool, and I see they have the 4381 connected to the
CDC Cyber 175 via HASP. That's definitely the link to inspect for
implementation details.
-ethan
3:23 p.m.
Hi folks,
I am looking for the following software products for a PDP-11, ideally to
be run on RSX-11M.
RJE/HASP
2780/3780 Protocol Emulator
My aim is to be able to submit a remote job from a simulated PDP-11 on simh
to a simulated IBM/370 on Hercules. The products that I mentioned seem the
obvious way to do this, but anything that works would be helpful.
I suspect the products you mention above are designed to interface to a
real synchronous serial line? In my experience with Hercules, simulating
a generalised synchronous serial line effectively in software is pretty
fraught. I don't know if simh attempts to do this or if it allows the
simulated system access to real synchronous serial hardware in the host
system. If the latter, this doesn't get you any closer to a connection to
Hercules because Hercules does not have code to drive a real synchronous
serial line.
However, I know of at least two projects which implement bisync line to
TCP/IP gateways to interface to IBM terminals using additional hardware.
Perhaps it might be possible to adapt one or both to do RJE? Here is one
of them:
http://www.9track.net/hercules/dlsw/
I can't quite put a hand on a url for the other one right now but the
author posts here regularly so hopefully he will chime in.
Or, it might be possible to use an intermediate gateway such as a MicroVAX
with a synchronous serial interface.
The protocol used for 2703 over TCP/IP emulation in Hercules is not really
up to doing much more than trivial RJE transfers. It can't really manage
NJE either. (NJE is mostly just RJE with another layer added on.)
Back in the 1980s, a requirement arose to be able to transport NJE across
the internet for the BITNET network. A protocol was devised to enable this
to be done effectively:
http://www.nic.funet.fi/pub/netinfo/CREN/brfc0002.text
I have implemented this protocol in Hercules here:
https://github.com/rbowler/spinhawk/
Unfortunately, this protocol is specific to NJE, it does not work for RJE.
In order to get RJE in and out of Hercules with any degree of reliability
and efficiency, it would be necessary to come up with an equally suitable
protocol or tweak the NJE protocol appropriately.
If you can come up with a way of getting NJE over TCP/IP out of your
simulated PDP-11 on simh, you can trivially connect that to my code in
Hercules in order to end up with NJE connections to either VM/370 RSCS
or MVS (both with suitable tweaks). Not so useful if what you really
want is RJE though.
Regards,
Peter Coghlan.
Cheers
Peter Allan
4:39 p.m.
On Wed, Oct 7, 2020 at 4:19 PM Peter Coghlan via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
Yes. The actual hardware was anything from a dumb PIO serial card
where the host CPU does all the protocol, to expensive, intelligent
serial cards that run an entire protocol engine and just push input
and output files across the hardware bus.
I am looking
for the following software products for a PDP-11, ideally to
be run on RSX-11M.
RJE/HASP
2780/3780 Protocol Emulator
My aim is to be able to submit a remote job from a simulated PDP-11 on simh
to a simulated IBM/370 on Hercules.
I suspect the products you mention above are designed to interface to a
real synchronous serial line? In my experience with Hercules, simulating
a generalised synchronous serial line effectively in software is pretty
fraught. I don't know if simh attempts to do this or if it allows the
simulated system access to real synchronous serial hardware in the host
system.
Synchronous serial lines are not typically a feature in the sort of
machines people are likely to be running something like Simh on,
especially laptops. I'm sure there were Sync serial cards for ISA but
probably not anything more recent.
What simh does for async muxes like the DZ11 is to open up TCP
sockets, one per serial line, then you connect to those for
interactive sessions and such.
There are no implementations of sync serial devices in Simh. That
would have to be written in any case. The DU11 and DUV11 are very
simple PIO serial lines with, IIRC, a COM5025 USART. It would not be
a huge undertaking to write up a module to emulate one and attach it
to the virtual bus and have it also just open up a TCP socket.
One could use 'netcat' or something similar to open up and talk to
both the PDP-11 socket and the Hercules socket to make the connection.
The protocol used for 2703 over TCP/IP emulation in
Hercules is not really
up to doing much more than trivial RJE transfers. It can't really manage
NJE either. (NJE is mostly just RJE with another layer added on.)
When I did this sort of thing in the 80s and 90s, we didn't have NJE -
we supported RJE over 3780 and HASP (same hardware, different protocol
engine loads). I remember having to have a list of what the RJE
commands were over each type of console (in particular, I remember
there was IBM and CDC commands that differed). I also remember using
a bit of JCL to tell the remote (IBM) end where to pipe the files and
where to send the results (line printer, disk file on our end, etc)
Back in the 1980s, a requirement arose to be able to
transport NJE across
the internet for the BITNET network. A protocol was devised to enable this
to be done effectively:
http://www.nic.funet.fi/pub/netinfo/CREN/brfc0002.text
I have heard of this, but I was never on BITNET back in the day.
I have implemented this protocol in Hercules here:
https://github.com/rbowler/spinhawk/
Unfortunately, this protocol is specific to NJE, it does not work for RJE.
Ah well.
I _think_ the way forward is to choose a 2780/3780 package for the
PDP-11, then write a sync serial device handler for a compatible type
of board, and let TCP connect the dots, so to speak. If the goal is
to run from a real PDP-11, that's an entirely different matter and
would probably require finding a way to add a USART to modern hardware
to pick up the bytes from the real PDP-11. This bridge device would
then make a network connection to Hercules to complete the circuit.
-ethan
4:48 p.m.
On 10/7/20 1:39 PM, Ethan Dicks via cctalk wrote:
Synchronous serial lines are not typically a feature
in the sort of
machines people are likely to be running something like Simh on,
especially laptops. I'm sure there were Sync serial cards for ISA but
probably not anything more recent.
you could get PCI V.35 cards
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Barr-Systems-291456-Sync-Max-PCI-Rev-1-Card/264317…
probably for SNA
4:52 p.m.
On 10/7/20 1:48 PM, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote:
On 10/7/20 1:39 PM, Ethan Dicks via cctalk wrote:
http://barrcentral.com/manuals/SYNC%20MAX%20PCI%20Adapter%20Manual%20Rev2.p…
Synchronous serial lines are not typically a
feature in the sort of
machines people are likely to be running something like Simh on,
especially laptops.? I'm sure there were Sync serial cards for ISA but
probably not anything more recent.
you could get PCI V.35 cards
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Barr-Systems-291456-Sync-Max-PCI-Rev-1-Card/264317…
probably for SNA
5:03 p.m.
On Wed, Oct 7, 2020 at 4:49 PM Al Kossow via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
On 10/7/20 1:39 PM, Ethan Dicks via cctalk wrote:
I was not aware of this unit. Thanks for the pointer.
Synchronous serial lines are not typically a
feature in the sort of
machines people are likely to be running something like Simh on,
especially laptops. I'm sure there were Sync serial cards for ISA but
probably not anything more recent.
you could get PCI V.35 cards
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Barr-Systems-291456-Sync-Max-PCI-Rev-1-Card/264317… probably for SNA
Looks like it has a variety of targets. That Zilog 16C32 is a real
kitchen-sink serial chip, way more complicated than the Z8530.
It is definitely way more advanced than the stuff I was working with
from the mid-70s and early-80s.
Overkill for this task, but definitely capable, depending on what the
PCI end looks like. The serial chip is fine. It will do whatever.
-ethan
5:56 p.m.
Sig 2652 is an alternative to the 5025. 5025 is based on the DP11 MSI
design by Frank Zereski at dec, the 26t2 is based on my design for the
DMC/KMC line units that could run DDCM{< BiSync-ADDCP-BDLC
On Wed, Oct 7, 2020 at 5:04 PM Ethan Dicks via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
On Wed, Oct 7, 2020 at 4:49 PM Al Kossow via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
On 10/7/20 1:39 PM, Ethan Dicks via cctalk
wrote:
I was not aware of this unit. Thanks for the pointer.
Synchronous serial lines are not typically a
feature in the sort of
machines people are likely to be running something like Simh on,
especially laptops. I'm sure there were Sync serial cards for ISA but
probably not anything more recent.
you could get PCI V.35 cards
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Barr-Systems-291456-Sync-Max-PCI-Rev-1-Card/264317… probably for SNA
Looks like it has a variety of targets. That Zilog 16C32 is a real
kitchen-sink serial chip, way more complicated than the Z8530.
It is definitely way more advanced than the stuff I was working with
from the mid-70s and early-80s.
Overkill for this task, but definitely capable, depending on what the
PCI end looks like. The serial chip is fine. It will do whatever.
-ethan
7:31 p.m.
On Wed, Oct 7, 2020 at 5:56 PM Bob Smith <bobsmithofd at gmail.com> wrote:
Sig 2652 is an alternative to the 5025. 5025 is based
on the DP11 MSI
design by Frank Zereski at dec, the 26t2 is based on my design for the
DMC/KMC line units that could run DDCM{< BiSync-ADDCP-BDLC
Good to know about both of those chips. I happen to have several
dozen tubes of original COM5025 chips from our old COMBOARD stock.
Several lifetimes' supply. It's not like people are building
modem-speed sync serial boards anymore.
-ethan
10 Oct
10 Oct
6:18 a.m.
On 10/7/20 2:03 PM, Ethan Dicks wrote:
On Wed, Oct 7, 2020 at 4:49 PM Al Kossow via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
http://www.synclink.com/
for USB..
On 10/7/20 1:39 PM, Ethan Dicks via cctalk
wrote:
I was not aware of this unit. Thanks for the pointer. Synchronous serial lines are not typically a
feature in the sort of
machines people are likely to be running something like Simh on,
especially laptops. I'm sure there were Sync serial cards for ISA but
probably not anything more recent.
you could get PCI V.35 cards
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Barr-Systems-291456-Sync-Max-PCI-Rev-1-Card/264317… 
9 Oct
9 Oct
5:29 p.m.
On Wed, 7 Oct 2020, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote:
Umm, PCI has become almost as legacy as ISA, but here's the first link:
<https://www.farsite.com/synchronous_X.21_RS422_V.35_RS530_PCI_PCIe_cards/farsync_t4ee_pcie_synchronous_card.shtml>.
that came up with "PCIe HDLC" popped into a web search engine.
If you were so inclined, you could probably wire it to a contemporary x86
laptop via one of those Thunderbolt-to-PCIe thingies (for the record: I've
had one of my older x86 laptops put on FDDI via a similar arrangement with
a PCIe-PCI bridge wired via the docking station, and could do the same
right away with my most recent one and its ExpressCard interface).
FWIW,
Maciej
Synchronous
serial lines are not typically a feature in the sort of
machines people are likely to be running something like Simh on,
especially laptops. I'm sure there were Sync serial cards for ISA but
probably not anything more recent.
you could get PCI V.35 cards
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Barr-Systems-291456-Sync-Max-PCI-Rev-1-Card/264317…
7 Oct
7 Oct
6:42 p.m.
Ethan Dicks wrote:
There are no implementations of sync serial devices in Simh. That
would have to be written in any case. The DU11 and DUV11 are very
simple PIO serial lines with, IIRC, a COM5025 USART. It would not be
a huge undertaking to write up a module to emulate one and attach it
to the virtual bus and have it also just open up a TCP socket.
One could use 'netcat' or something similar to open up and talk to
both the PDP-11 socket and the Hercules socket to make the connection.
This is (more or less, not exactly) what the orginal 2703/bisync emulation
in Hercules does but it is not really sufficient for RJE, for a number of
reasons.
The bisync/RJE protocol is a great fit for being generated by hardware and
being sent over a dedicated line. It is a poor fit for being generated
by software and being sent over a shared TCP/IP network. There is lots
of bandwidth wasting chatter and lots of CPU is consumed in mostly achieving
nothing useful.
The bisync/RJE protocol needs a close to real-time response and is not a
good fit for a network which can produce variable delays. Buffers in
applications tend to be organised on a just-in-time basis. The flow control
needs to be able to tell the far end to stop sending data immediately and
dribble in shortly as network buffers get cleared or unexpectedly delayed
packets arrive. One end also expects that once data is successfully sent
out, it is practically sure to arrive almost immediately at the far end,
not get piled into buffers and suffer random delays. (I have tried assuming
that if sufficient TCP/IP network bandwidth is provided, the flow control
will not get triggered. This didn't work. In practice, if one end has data
to send, it will keep blasting it out until the far end tells it to stop and
then it expects it to stop near instantly.) Applications tend to be coded
with fixed, short timeout values.
Interesting stuff happens if the TCP/IP socket is not connected when attempts
are made to send data. Applications tend to assume that any errors are fatal
and they just give up.
The link I included describes how to avoid these difficulties for NJE
by using a very different protocol which is specifically designed for sending
NJE over TCP/IP networks. I believe a similar approach is needed to do RJE
successfully, especially if it is to end up working across the internet rather
than just across a lab under ideal conditions.
Regards,
Peter Coghlan.
7:47 p.m.
On Wed, Oct 7, 2020 at 7:32 PM Peter Coghlan via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
Ethan Dicks wrote:
I completely agree. It's terribly chatty and expects turnarounds
very, very quickly. The OP didn't indicate the distance of what he
wanted to accomplish, so I've just been considering both ends are in
the same room, not in two different locations - i.e., a demo not a
real-world production-ready solution.
There are no implementations of sync serial
devices in Simh. That
would have to be written in any case. The DU11 and DUV11 are very
simple PIO serial lines with, IIRC, a COM5025 USART...
This is (more or less, not exactly) what the orginal 2703/bisync emulation
in Hercules does...
The bisync/RJE protocol is a great fit for being generated by hardware and
being sent over a dedicated line. It is a poor fit for being generated
by software and being sent over a shared TCP/IP network. There is lots
of bandwidth wasting chatter and lots of CPU is consumed in mostly achieving
nothing useful.
Totally.
Applications tend to be coded with fixed, short
timeout values.
Yes.
The link I included describes how to avoid these
difficulties for NJE
by using a very different protocol which is specifically designed for sending
NJE over TCP/IP networks. I believe a similar approach is needed to do RJE
successfully, especially if it is to end up working across the internet rather
than just across a lab under ideal conditions.
Indeed. If the goal is to have it work across the internet rather
than across the room, yes, an additional management layer is needed.
-ethan
8 Oct
8 Oct
8:42 a.m.
Den ons 7 okt. 2020 kl 22:19 skrev Peter Coghlan via cctalk <
cctalk at classiccmp.org>:
However, I know of at least two projects which implement bisync line to
TCP/IP gateways to interface to IBM terminals using additional hardware.
Perhaps it might be possible to adapt one or both to do RJE? Here is one
of them:
http://www.9track.net/hercules/dlsw/
I can't quite put a hand on a url for the other one right now but the
author posts here regularly so hopefully he will chime in.
Actually Matt Burke's project is about SNA/SDLC, not BSC. He is using the
3705 emulation in Hercules, not the 2703 emulation that is in commadpt.c
I have been working a bit with Hercules and BSC. There are a number of
things that are a bit peculiar with the Hercules implementation since it
simply pushes the bytes it receives from the channel program onto the TCP
socket. All the bytes added by the 2703 itself is omitted. This means:
1. No CRC bytes are sent
2. No leading SYN SYN are sent. SYN can be seen in the stream if added by
the channel program as a time fill.
3. No Trailing PAD is sent.
The read turn-around takes place immediately as soon as the bytes are
pushed into the socket. So if the actual sending of the bytes takes longer
time the 2703 emulation will not notice this. Something that can be
problematic with real world serial lines.
There is a tiny bug in Hercules 3.13 that has to be fixed to get it working
properly. https://github.com/rbowler/spinhawk/issues/94
Trying to use BSC in Hyperion-SDL 4.xx causes a core dump.
https://github.com/SDL-Hercules-390/hyperion/issues/319
I have successfully used the Hercules BSC implementation with the bug fixed
to attach a real BSC connected 3270 compatible terminal.
Here are some information:
https://github.com/MattisLind/alfaskop_emu/tree/master/Utils/BSCGateway/BSC…
and https://github.com/MattisLind/alfaskop_emu/
https://youtu.be/H1Sxt7xjn4Y
https://youtu.be/CFfB3yCN9OI
/Mattis
5:38 p.m.
Thanks to everyone who has sent suggestions about remote job submission
from a simulated PDP-11 to a simulated IBM/370.
Although I do want to get this working on a simulated PDP-11 running
RSX-11M, the mention of the Unix 'send' command grabbed my attention, since
that rings a vague bell in my memory that there might have been a 'send'
command on the RSX-11M machine that I used in the previous millennium. This
was at a university, so I can imagine someone taking the Unix code and
porting it to RSX-11M.
Of course, this was a long time ago and I might have a faulty memory.
It would still be great to get the proper RSX-11M tools if they exist
somewhere. I am prepared to have a go at writing the appropriate
synchronous interface for simh if those tools do exist. I know that there
is a DUP-11 device already, but the code explicitly says that it does not
implement bisync.
Cheers to all
Peter Allan
On Wed, 7 Oct 2020 at 10:07, Peter Allan <petermallan at gmail.com> wrote:
Hi folks,
I am looking for the following software products for a PDP-11, ideally to
be run on RSX-11M.
RJE/HASP
2780/3780 Protocol Emulator
My aim is to be able to submit a remote job from a simulated PDP-11 on
simh to a simulated IBM/370 on Hercules. The products that I mentioned seem
the obvious way to do this, but anything that works would be helpful.
Cheers
Peter Allan
1386
days inactive
1389
days old
41 comments
15 participants
participants (15)
-
aek＠bitsavers.org -
bobsmithofd＠gmail.com -
cctalk＠beyondthepale.ie -
cube1＠charter.net -
cz＠alembic.crystel.com -
drb＠msu.edu -
ethan.dicks＠gmail.com -
glen.slick＠gmail.com -
jwsmail＠jwsss.com -
macro＠linux-mips.org -
mattislind＠gmail.com -
paulkoning＠comcast.net -
petermallan＠gmail.com -
stefan.skoglund＠agj.net -
wrcooke＠wrcooke.net