2 Sep
2012
2 Sep
'12
11:05 a.m.
Hello. I'm looking for a teletype in ontario and was wondering if you could
recommend someone here in Canada to speak with. Its a very peculiar
interest and came across your thread. Any direction is of interest. Thanks.
2 Sep
2 Sep
5:49 p.m.
Truth be told, I'd also love to find one. I've seen them come up for sale on the
Fair Radio Sales website every so often, but they are stateside and as such shipping would
be an issue.
Sent from my iPhone
On 2012-09-02, at 11:05 AM, Dareck Gorecki <dareckgorecki at gmail.com> wrote:
Hello. I'm looking for a teletype in ontario and
was wondering if you could
recommend someone here in Canada to speak with. Its a very peculiar
interest and came across your thread. Any direction is of interest. Thanks.
3 Sep
3 Sep
midnight
u guys would hate me lol
suggest checking abandonded buildings seariously....
On Sun, Sep 2, 2012 at 4:49 PM, Paul Anderson <wackyvorlon at me.com> wrote:
Truth be told, I'd also love to find one. I've
seen them come up for sale
on the Fair Radio Sales website every so often, but they are stateside and
as such shipping would be an issue.
Sent from my iPhone
On 2012-09-02, at 11:05 AM, Dareck Gorecki <dareckgorecki at gmail.com>
wrote:
Hello. I'm looking for a teletype in ontario
and was wondering if you
could
recommend someone here in Canada to speak with.
Its a very peculiar
interest and came across your thread. Any direction is of interest.
Thanks.
1:41 a.m.
I am both confused and intrigued...
I love decayed building. There is something about the history, with
failure and personal pain caused as an expensive asset is converted to
pile of rubble.
Oh wait, I meant Hate.
Jim Davis.
Adrian Stoness wrote:
u guys would hate me lol
suggest checking abandonded buildings seariously....
On Sun, Sep 2, 2012 at 4:49 PM, Paul Anderson <wackyvorlon at me.com> wrote:
> Truth be told, I'd also love to find one. I've seen them come up for sale
> on the Fair Radio Sales website every so often, but they are stateside and
> as such shipping would be an issue.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On 2012-09-02, at 11:05 AM, Dareck Gorecki <dareckgorecki at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Hello. I'm looking for a teletype in ontario and was wondering if you
> could
>> recommend someone here in Canada to speak with. Its a very peculiar
>> interest and came across your thread. Any direction is of interest.
> Thanks.
>
2:41 a.m.
On 9/2/2012 10:41 PM, jimpdavis wrote:
I am both confused and intrigued...
I love decayed building. There is something about the history, with
failure and personal pain caused as an expensive asset is converted to
pile of rubble.
Oh wait, I meant Hate.
Jim Davis.
Adrian Stoness wrote:
> u guys would hate me lol
>
> suggest checking abandonded buildings seariously....
I had a lot of the
antiques we had concealed on my family's farm "found"
by people and carried off because the houses were abandoned. I consider
it theft, and I would not be as charitable as the police if I could
catch those who carry stuff of like that. We had possession of a lot of
valuable stuff that probably are now on ebay or on some stupid picker
show because some moron picked them up off our farm and said they were
hunting around legally.
3:30 a.m.
Strategic materials my ass,
The aluminum smelter that employed 500 people and was valued at 500 Mil
on the tax roll,
produced 500 M a year is being ripped down and sold for scrap.
The plants in Troutdale Or and he Dalles are gone. Goldendale's 100 acre
site is being reduced to rubble.
I don't think there are any smelters left in the USA, Lucky for us all
our weapons are plastic.
jim.
jim s wrote:
On 9/2/2012 10:41 PM, jimpdavis wrote:
I am both confused and intrigued...
I love decayed building. There is something about the history, with
failure and personal pain caused as an expensive asset is converted
to pile of rubble.
Oh wait, I meant Hate.
Jim Davis.
Adrian Stoness wrote:
> u guys would hate me lol
>
> suggest checking abandonded buildings seariously....
I had a lot of the
antiques we had concealed on my family's farm
"found" by people and carried off because the houses were abandoned.
I consider it theft, and I would not be as charitable as the police if
I could catch those who carry stuff of like that. We had possession
of a lot of valuable stuff that probably are now on ebay or on some
stupid picker show because some moron picked them up off our farm and
said they were hunting around legally.
4:22 a.m.
I don't remember writing that rather caustic diatribe. Or what I was
replying to.
jimpdavis wrote:
Strategic materials my ass,
The aluminum smelter that employed 500 people and was valued at 500
Mil on the tax roll,
produced 500 M a year is being ripped down and sold for scrap.
The plants in Troutdale Or and he Dalles are gone. Goldendale's 100
acre site is being reduced to rubble.
I don't think there are any smelters left in the USA, Lucky for us all
our weapons are plastic.
jim.
jim s wrote:
On 9/2/2012 10:41 PM, jimpdavis wrote:
I am both confused and intrigued...
I love decayed building. There is something about the history, with
failure and personal pain caused as an expensive asset is converted
to pile of rubble.
Oh wait, I meant Hate.
Jim Davis.
Adrian Stoness wrote:
> u guys would hate me lol
>
> suggest checking abandonded buildings seariously....
I had a lot of the
antiques we had concealed on my family's farm
"found" by people and carried off because the houses were abandoned.
I consider it theft, and I would not be as charitable as the police
if I could catch those who carry stuff of like that. We had
possession of a lot of valuable stuff that probably are now on ebay
or on some stupid picker show because some moron picked them up off
our farm and said they were hunting around legally.
5:30 a.m.
New subject: Aluminum Reduction plant vs. Smelting.
On 9/3/2012 1:22 AM, jimpdavis wrote:
I don't remember writing that rather caustic
diatribe. Or what I was
replying to.
jimpdavis wrote:
> Strategic materials my ass,
> The aluminum smelter
Are you referring to a bauxite to aluminum reduction
plant or just a
casting plant? sometimes they plants shut down simply because the
bauxite supply nearby plays out, or the power and other costs change for
the worse.
They operate in a mode also of having to have casting orders in for the
output of their operations because they can't really easily turn them
off. When they have extra metal they have hot they have to put it
somewhere, and what they used to do with it if they had to was cast it
into 50 to 100 ton pigs and ship them elsewhere. However when they
surrendered the energy that it took to keep it molten, it was a loss.
Usually they didn't use that metal once it was cooled.
I've visited both a plant in South Carolina, Alumax, and one east of
Evansville, In, Alcoa, both which still have good supplies of cheap
power and ore.
I assume even if they were to have had the situation where they don't
have direct orders and are shipping to China, the Chinese and foreign
buyers would be taking the metal from plants here, simply because we
have fairly cheap power. Indiana is coal, near fairly large open face
mines and the one in North Carolina gets about 1/2 of a hydro plant in
Georgia.
Thought I'd ask as I don't have much idea of how the west coast plants
are doing.
It could be that the plants were displaced which sucks for localities,
but hopefully it is still cheaper to process the ore here and have some
jobs, rather than shipping raw materials only and getting zippo for
loosing our natural resources.
I guess the Chinese are waking up about rare earths now and have been on
to what they have there. I know the non US members of the list probably
have different views, and am aware of all of the resource export that
goes on, especially in Africa.
I have not seen any quantitative comparison of how iron in the steel has
changed, but there are a lot of mini-mills which have replaced a lot of
the original plant complexes which went ore->steel, but I don't know
that we need them with all the recycling. Also minimills near your
location are cheaper than central plants shipping material.
This is a bit away from computers, but not so much if you also look at
how things are moving around these days with IC and hardware production.
We are well into the 10 year old rule covering a lot of equipment which
is highly integrated, and not something you get that has general purpose
parts. I'm not even sure where we are going with things in the last 10
years all starting to either be small equipment, and larger systems
being destroyed by the owners due to IP concerns and other reasons.
as things have evolved all manner of things are now pretty caught up
being commodities and subject to being moved around the world.
jim
5:19 p.m.
New subject: Aluminum Reduction plant vs. Smelting.
Hi Jim,
The reduction plants / smelters in Vancouver, Longview and Goldendale
Wa. and Troutdale and
The Dalles Or. were shutdown in the last decade and were demolished
Google sits near The Dalles former site.
I think a few plants are still operating in the Pacific NW and in BC.
We now have excess power in the area from the wind farms. Unfortunately,
that power is sporadic.
New distribution systems are being constructed to ship the power to the
Southwest.
From what I have read, sustaining the high desert lifestyle will not be
possible without a reliable supply of water.
The original source of continuous power is the BPA ( Bonneville Power
Administration ),
the operators of the hydro-power complex on the Columbia River.and the
reason those plants were built.
The destroyed plants could now be used to burn off the excess and
prevent having idle wind turbines.
I worked in the industry for 5 years building process control systems,
until Gulf war 1 and the USSR meltdown
caused the aluminum market to crash. Massive dumping of metal by the
Russians trying to stave off financial disaster
in the early 90's, the Southwest population boom and the deregulated
power market sealed the industry's fate.
It was rumored in the industry the Russians had huge stockpiles of
strategic metal reserves buried in Siberia.
You are right about shutting down and restarting a plant. It takes about
a year to fully restart a smelter. Goldendale
went through a restart after shutting down in the late 80's. The plant
had about 600 reduction cells and consumed
enough power to run a small city.
To keep this on topic, The reduction process control system was
originally built with a Nova mini driven analog data multiplexer
fed into a Modcomp for process control. We later updated the process
control to a later model Modcomp.
A Data General Eclipse was used for production reporting. The lab used a
PDP-8 based X-ray analyzer and
the carbon plant was based on Mot 6800 boxes and Analog Devices uMac
5000 process control systems.
I was pretty disappointed the last time I visited in 95 and discovered
the eclipse had been dumped into the tip
and replaced with PC clones.
About your comment on rare earths, We will be screwed if we get into a
pissing match with the Chinese.
Around here, Most of the timberland and mining claims are owned by
foreign corporations, Sold by the feds
for token payments. When US corps owned the land, It was generally open.
Now gates block all access.
Jim.
jim s wrote:
On 9/3/2012 1:22 AM, jimpdavis wrote:
I don't remember writing that rather caustic
diatribe. Or what I was
replying to.
jimpdavis wrote:
> Strategic materials my ass,
> The aluminum smelter
Are you referring to a bauxite to aluminum reduction
plant or just a
casting plant? sometimes they plants shut down simply because the
bauxite supply nearby plays out, or the power and other costs change
for the worse.
They operate in a mode also of having to have casting orders in for
the output of their operations because they can't really easily turn
them off. When they have extra metal they have hot they have to put
it somewhere, and what they used to do with it if they had to was cast
it into 50 to 100 ton pigs and ship them elsewhere. However when they
surrendered the energy that it took to keep it molten, it was a loss.
Usually they didn't use that metal once it was cooled.
I've visited both a plant in South Carolina, Alumax, and one east of
Evansville, In, Alcoa, both which still have good supplies of cheap
power and ore.
I assume even if they were to have had the situation where they don't
have direct orders and are shipping to China, the Chinese and foreign
buyers would be taking the metal from plants here, simply because we
have fairly cheap power. Indiana is coal, near fairly large open face
mines and the one in North Carolina gets about 1/2 of a hydro plant in
Georgia.
Thought I'd ask as I don't have much idea of how the west coast plants
are doing.
It could be that the plants were displaced which sucks for localities,
but hopefully it is still cheaper to process the ore here and have
some jobs, rather than shipping raw materials only and getting zippo
for loosing our natural resources.
I guess the Chinese are waking up about rare earths now and have been
on to what they have there. I know the non US members of the list
probably have different views, and am aware of all of the resource
export that goes on, especially in Africa.
I have not seen any quantitative comparison of how iron in the steel
has changed, but there are a lot of mini-mills which have replaced a
lot of the original plant complexes which went ore->steel, but I don't
know that we need them with all the recycling. Also minimills near
your location are cheaper than central plants shipping material.
This is a bit away from computers, but not so much if you also look at
how things are moving around these days with IC and hardware production.
We are well into the 10 year old rule covering a lot of equipment
which is highly integrated, and not something you get that has general
purpose parts. I'm not even sure where we are going with things in
the last 10 years all starting to either be small equipment, and
larger systems being destroyed by the owners due to IP concerns and
other reasons.
as things have evolved all manner of things are now pretty caught up
being commodities and subject to being moved around the world.
jim
6:19 p.m.
New subject: Aluminum Reduction plant vs. Smelting.
On 9/3/2012 2:19 PM, jimpdavis wrote:
To keep this on topic, The reduction process control system was
originally built with a Nova mini driven analog data multiplexer
fed into a Modcomp for process control. We later updated the process
control to a later model Modcomp.
A Data General Eclipse was used for production reporting. The lab used
a PDP-8 based X-ray analyzer and
the carbon plant was based on Mot 6800 boxes and Analog Devices uMac
5000 process control systems.
I was pretty disappointed the last time I visited in 95 and discovered
the eclipse had been dumped into the tip
and replaced with PC clones.
I went to the Alumax site to service a Microdata
Reality they bought and
installed. They had hired an engineering firm to make adapters to
convert sensor output to character form and login to the Reality and jam
the data into data files. It was then analyzed and formatted into
reports about the state and trends of possible monitor pollutants,
wildlife and a huge amount of environmental monitors.
The logins to the Reality system for the data retrieval were open to the
Alumax people and to the EPA as well as some other interested parties,
and reports were published, may still be of the trends from before the
site was converted. They said the site would improve environmentally,
and as it was converted to just one area for the reduction plant, and a
large are was made back into a nature preserve it looked like they had
accomplished that. I suspect they may still use pick or perhaps there
are other data collection systems in use. It was pretty advanced to do
what they did for 1979 though.
2:59 a.m.
> suggest checking abandonded buildings
seariously....
>
> On Sun, Sep 2, 2012 at 4:49 PM, Paul Anderson <wackyvorlon at me.com> wrote:
>
>> Truth be told, I'd also love to find one. I've seen them come up for
sale
>> on the Fair Radio Sales website every so often, but they are stateside
>> and
>> as such shipping would be an issue.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On 2012-09-02, at 11:05 AM, Dareck Gorecki <dareckgorecki at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello. I'm looking for a teletype in ontario and was wondering if you
That is a good suggestion. I don't know Ontario, Canada but look at
OLD industrial facilities that have recently failed, like paper mills,
sawmills, other industrial facilities from the 1960s / 70s. They often
used teletypes for years and then when pulled out of service just put
them in storage as they usually had plenty of space. It is worth
asking...
Also find out who scraps those kind of facilities and ask there.....
Your local ham radio club.....may be a good source.
Paxton
--
Paxton Hoag
Astoria, OR
USA
3:20 a.m.
http://www.rakowskicartage.com/home << these guys are canadas largest
demolition company... they do salvage to so contact them they might be able
to find u something.
and when i said you guys may hate me i have a asr33 and a telex i found in
a building thats falling down in a room that managed to not get trashed by
the vandles and water... including a pdp8a and software manuals schematics
ect
9:36 a.m.
On Sun, Sep 02, 2012 at 11:59:40PM -0700, Paxton Hoag wrote:
>> suggest checking abandonded buildings
seariously....
>>
...
That is a good suggestion. I don't know Ontario, Canada but look at
OLD industrial facilities that have recently failed, like paper mills,
sawmills, other industrial facilities from the 1960s / 70s. They often
used teletypes for years and then when pulled out of service just put
them in storage as they usually had plenty of space. It is worth
asking...
Also find out who scraps those kind of facilities and ask there.....
Your local ham radio club.....may be a good source.
http://www.rac.ca
My own club http://www.oarc.net I'm VA3DB
Old Teletypes were handed out by Bell to hams or deaf for years with a
signed waiver. You might also try asking around deaf organisations.
I suspect a lot of these have ended up in landfills.
Paxton
--
Paxton Hoag
Astoria, OR
USA
- 73 Diane VA3DB
--
- db at FreeBSD.org db at db.net http://www.db.net/~db
Nowadays tar can compress using yesterdays latest technologies!
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