6 Nov
2013
6 Nov
'13
12:38 a.m.
Checked my VT103... one capstan is a train wreck... the other doesn't
look to bad, but I bet that if it was attempted to be used it would die
quick.
I've read about the use on different drives about tubing, etc to fix
capstans....
Anyone done a T58 here ? Can you let me know what materials I need and
process to replace "goo precursor" with tubing/etc ?
I don't have a lathe, machine tools, etc available to me (beyond files,
a dremel, etc).
Thanks,
-- Curt
6 Nov
6 Nov
1:37 a.m.
On 11/05/2013 09:38 PM, rescue wrote:
Checked my VT103... one capstan is a train wreck... the other doesn't
look to bad, but I bet that if it was attempted to be used it would die
quick.
I've read about the use on different drives about tubing, etc to fix
capstans....
Anyone done a T58 here ? Can you let me know what materials I need and
process to replace "goo precursor" with tubing/etc ?
I don't have a lathe, machine tools, etc available to me (beyond files,
a dremel, etc).
I can speak only of my experience with quarter-inch (QIC02) type drives,
not the TU58 in particular. If you can get a length of Tygon tubing of
the appropriate ID and OD, that might work for you. Some have tried
vinyl tubing, but that seems to be a bit too hard for the purpose.
I've tried both neoprene and latex hose, but found those to be so far
out-of round as to be worthless.
--Chuck
1:43 a.m.
On Wed, Nov 06, 2013 at 12:38:06AM -0500, rescue wrote:
Anyone done a T58 here ? Can you let me know what
materials I need
and process to replace "goo precursor" with tubing/etc ?
This is stale information and doesn't address your exact question, but
I think at one point Keyways was selling replacements for the whole thing
(including the hub I mean). I don't know if Mitch Miller is still doing
that, but there must be *some* reason for his owning the tu58.com domain name!
I forget the price -- non-trivial but worth it, is what I remember.
Otherwise ... do you mean to imply that people *have* been doing this on
a lathe? I'd be surprised to see rubber cooperate with that ... but I do
have one (antique Sheldon BM-1026) and would be up for experimentation.
Any idea how RTV silicone stands up? It might be possible to cast new
(fake) rubber on that way, although keeping it centered would be a
challenge.
John Wilson
D Bit
6:24 p.m.
Any idea how RTV silicone stands up? It might be
possible to cast new
(fake) rubber on that way, although keeping it centered would be a
challenge.
I'd wondered about thos 2-part elastomers (resin + hardener, basically)
such as are made by Devcon. But they're not cheap, and you would prbably
need machien tools to make the mould to cast the roller in.
-tony
2:46 a.m.
Would the rollers from a tape deck work? You can buy new replacements for
those in different sizes.
-----Original Message-----
From: rescue
Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2013 12:38 AM
To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
Subject: TU58 capstan solutions anyone ?
Checked my VT103... one capstan is a train wreck... the other doesn't
look to bad, but I bet that if it was attempted to be used it would die
quick.
I've read about the use on different drives about tubing, etc to fix
capstans....
Anyone done a T58 here ? Can you let me know what materials I need and
process to replace "goo precursor" with tubing/etc ?
I don't have a lathe, machine tools, etc available to me (beyond files,
a dremel, etc).
Thanks,
-- Curt
7:15 a.m.
-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org]
Namens TeoZ
Verzonden: woensdag 6 november 2013 8:46
Aan: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Onderwerp: Re: TU58 capstan solutions anyone ?
Would the rollers from a tape deck work? You can buy new replacements for
those in different sizes.
-----Original Message-----
From: rescue
Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2013 12:38 AM
To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
Subject: TU58 capstan solutions anyone ?
Checked my VT103... one capstan is a train wreck... the other doesn't
look to bad, but I bet that if it was attempted to be used it would die
quick.
I've read about the use on different drives about tubing, etc to fix
capstans....
Anyone done a T58 here ? Can you let me know what materials I need and
process to replace "goo precursor" with tubing/etc ?
I don't have a lathe, machine tools, etc available to me (beyond files,
a dremel, etc).
Thanks,
-- Curt
I've made several new ones, if you use a product called precision tube.
You can cut it the right length, after gluing it to the capstan, place the capstand on a
small motor which runs on a lab supply, you can grind it to the right size.
At http://www.flickr.com/photos/hp-fix you can see the results of my actions.
-Rik
10 a.m.
On 2013-11-06 07:15, Rik Bos wrote:
Would you happen to have a link for this precision tube ?
googling found me lots of companies (tube bending, manufacturing,
etc)... but I haven't located a product called that.
What glue did you use ?
What kind of tool(s) did you use to grind it to the right OD ?
Also, anyone know the right OD for this TU58 part ?
-- Curt
-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org
[mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org]
Namens TeoZ
Verzonden: woensdag 6 november 2013 8:46
Aan: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Onderwerp: Re: TU58 capstan solutions anyone ?
Would the rollers from a tape deck work? You can buy new
replacements for
those in different sizes.
-----Original Message-----
From: rescue
Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2013 12:38 AM
To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
Subject: TU58 capstan solutions anyone ?
Checked my VT103... one capstan is a train wreck... the other
doesn't
look to bad, but I bet that if it was attempted to be used it would
die
quick.
I've read about the use on different drives about tubing, etc to fix
capstans....
Anyone done a T58 here ? Can you let me know what materials I need
and
process to replace "goo precursor" with tubing/etc ?
I don't have a lathe, machine tools, etc available to me (beyond
files,
a dremel, etc).
Thanks,
-- Curt
I've made several new ones, if you use a product called precision
tube.
You can cut it the right length, after gluing it to the capstan,
place the capstand on a small motor which runs on a lab supply, you
can grind it to the right size.
At http://www.flickr.com/photos/hp-fix you can see the results of my
actions.
-Rik 
10:13 a.m.
I do not have a TU58 yet, so I do not know the dimensions of its capstan. However,
I've seen items that are similar to capstan wheels at an industrial supplier I
frequently use. Can somebody head over to http://mcmaster.com and search for "drive
rollers", and see if any of them are a good size for the TU58? It might be necessary
to buy or make a bushing for the motor shaft if it is not one of the roller bore diameters
that McMaster-Carr carries. The "precision urethane" ones are available with
1/8" bore diameter and roller diameters down to 3/8".
--
Mark J. Blair, NF6X <nf6x at nf6x.net>
Web page: http://www.nf6x.net/
10:21 a.m.
On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 12:38 AM, rescue <rescue at hawkmountain.net> wrote:
Checked my VT103... one capstan is a train wreck...
the other doesn't look
to bad, but I bet that if it was attempted to be used it would die quick.
I would not recommend using either one.
I've read about the use on different drives about
tubing, etc to fix
capstans....
Yes.
Anyone done a T58 here ? Can you let me know what
materials I need and
process to replace "goo precursor" with tubing/etc ?
I don't have a lathe, machine tools, etc available to me (beyond files, a
dremel, etc).
http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctech/2007-August/044802.html
I just used ordinary Tygon tubing, 1/2" ID, ISTR. You clean off the old
rubber from the brass bit in the middle, cut a slice of tubing about 1/4"
thick, then fit it over the brass and trim any rough edges with an
X-Acto knife so nothing snags the tape. I might have put a drop of
superglue at the Tygon-brass junction to keep it from wandering.
You might have to replace the tubing a couple of times a decade
if it gets inflexible.
-ethan
12:53 p.m.
On Wednesday (11/06/2013 at 10:21AM -0500), Ethan Dicks wrote:
I have also restored two TU-58 drives recently following pretty much
Ethan's recipe. It was difficult to trim the tubing cleanly so I also
"polished" it with a Dremel and sanding bit.
My problem is now the tapes. The rubber belt in the tapes also ages
and as soon as you spin up a tape in your newly repaired drive, that
belt will break.
I've successfully rebuilt maybe (5) tapes from several dozen by stealing
what appear to be good belts from crappy looking tapes but even after
complete disassembly, transfer of the belt and reassembly, my luck has
been that that belt will now break.
There is also an issue with some kind of lubricant in certain tapes that
has turned to sticky goo rather than a lubricant. On these tapes, the
tape bobbins hang up on their spindles, which puts further load on the
belt and causes it to break... or if it doesn't break, causes a drive
fault because the tape isn't moving like it should. Some of these I've
recovered by cleaning the lubricant from the spindles and everywhere
else I can find it inside the cartridge and then replacing it with tiny
amounts of a teflon lubricant.
But, too much work, IMO.
I restored the drive for h{istor,yster}ical reasons but I can't see
ever really using it again unless somebody starts making new tapes :-)
Chris
--
Chris Elmquist
Anyone done a T58 here ? Can you let me know
what materials I need and
process to replace "goo precursor" with tubing/etc ?
I don't have a lathe, machine tools, etc available to me (beyond files, a
dremel, etc).
http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctech/2007-August/044802.html
I just used ordinary Tygon tubing, 1/2" ID, ISTR. You clean off the old
rubber from the brass bit in the middle, cut a slice of tubing about 1/4"
thick, then fit it over the brass and trim any rough edges with an
X-Acto knife so nothing snags the tape. I might have put a drop of
superglue at the Tygon-brass junction to keep it from wandering.
4:27 p.m.
On Nov 6, 2013, at 09:53 , Chris Elmquist <chrise at pobox.com> wrote:
But, too much work, IMO.
I restored the drive for h{istor,yster}ical reasons but I can't see
ever really using it again unless somebody starts making new tapes :-)
Does anybody have a bad tape cartridge they would like to get rid of? I have a silly idea
in my head about embedding a TU58 emulator inside an old tape cartridge such that it could
be inserted in a TU58 drive, with its cable snaked through the drive's innards and
then plugged in to the computer in place of the TU58 drive. I'd like a tape cartridge
housing to measure and modify, and I don't want to wreck a good tape cartridge to get
it.
For that matter, I wouldn't mind having a TU58 drive, too. Working or not; naked or in
a housing. Just last weekend, I got my first pile of DEC parts that I hope to turn into a
working PDP-11/44 before too long:
http://www.nf6x.net/2013/11/my-new-dec-pdp-1144-project/
I see a few TU58 drives on eBay at the moment, but the prices seem silly to me.
--
Mark J. Blair, NF6X <nf6x at nf6x.net>
http://www.nf6x.net/
8:43 p.m.
On 6 November 2013 21:27, Mark J. Blair <nf6x at nf6x.net> wrote:
Does anybody have a bad tape cartridge they would like
to get rid of?
I have a whole box of old tapes in my garage, looking for a good home.
Some old mainframe reel-to-reel types as well as DEC TK?? cartridges.
Free for the postage, as a block or individually.
--
Liam Proven ? Profile: http://lproven.livejournal.com/profile
Email: lproven at cix.co.uk ? GMail/G+/Twitter/Flickr/Facebook: lproven
MSN: lproven at hotmail.com ? Skype/AIM/Yahoo/LinkedIn: liamproven
Tel: +44 20-8685-0498 ? Cell: +44 7939-087884
9:26 p.m.
On Nov 6, 2013, at 17:43 , Liam Proven <lproven at gmail.com> wrote:
On 6 November 2013 21:27, Mark J. Blair <nf6x at
nf6x.net> wrote:
I'd be interested in at least one of the cartridges for TU58 drives (Dectape II?).
I'll email you separately to arrange the exchange. I don't have any tape drives
yet, so I'd like to give others first dibs on the other tapes.
I do dream of having a VAX 11/780 with some hard drives and a TU77 someday, but that's
probably not a realistic dream. :)
--
Mark J. Blair, NF6X <nf6x at nf6x.net>
http://www.nf6x.net/
Does anybody have a bad tape cartridge they would
like to get rid of?
I have a whole box of old tapes in my garage, looking for a good home.
Some old mainframe reel-to-reel types as well as DEC TK?? cartridges.
Free for the postage, as a block or individually.
9:31 p.m.
On 7 November 2013 02:26, Mark J. Blair <nf6x at nf6x.net> wrote:
I'd be interested in at least one of the cartridges for TU58 drives (Dectape II?).
I'll email you separately to arrange the exchange. I don't have any tape drives
yet, so I'd like to give others first dibs on the other tapes.
I do dream of having a VAX 11/780 with some hard drives and a TU77 someday, but
that's probably not a realistic dream. :)
Sure, no problem - but I fear it will probably be next week before I
can dig them out and get a postage price for you. Is that OK? I am
going to be away this weekend and I already have a small backlog of
stuff to post as it is...
--
Liam Proven ? Profile: http://lproven.livejournal.com/profile
Email: lproven at cix.co.uk ? GMail/G+/Twitter/Flickr/Facebook: lproven
MSN: lproven at hotmail.com ? Skype/AIM/Yahoo/LinkedIn: liamproven
Tel: +44 20-8685-0498 ? Cell: +44 7939-087884
10:24 p.m.
On Nov 6, 2013, at 18:31 , Liam Proven <lproven at gmail.com> wrote:
Sure, no problem - but I fear it will probably be next
week before I
can dig them out and get a postage price for you. Is that OK? I am
going to be away this weekend and I already have a small backlog of
stuff to post as it is...
No problem at all. I am not in a hurry. I will probably forget the whole thing unless you
remind me. :)
--
Mark J. Blair, NF6X <nf6x at nf6x.net>
http://www.nf6x.net/
11:47 p.m.
A few months ago there was a VAX 11 780 on Ebay that did not get a single
bid. The asking price was $1500. It was located in NY.
On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 9:26 PM, Mark J. Blair <nf6x at nf6x.net> wrote:
On Nov 6, 2013, at 17:43 , Liam Proven <lproven at gmail.com> wrote:
On 6 November 2013 21:27, Mark J. Blair <nf6x
at nf6x.net> wrote:
I'd be interested in at least one of the cartridges for TU58 drives
(Dectape II?). I'll email you separately to arrange the exchange. I don't
have any tape drives yet, so I'd like to give others first dibs on the
other tapes.
I do dream of having a VAX 11/780 with some hard drives and a TU77
someday, but that's probably not a realistic dream. :)
--
Mark J. Blair, NF6X <nf6x at nf6x.net>
http://www.nf6x.net/
Does anybody have a bad tape cartridge they would
like to get rid of?
I have a whole box of old tapes in my garage, looking for a good home.
Some old mainframe reel-to-reel types as well as DEC TK?? cartridges.
Free for the postage, as a block or individually. 
7 Nov
7 Nov
7:54 a.m.
I thought that sold? I was trying for it and thought I was outbid
(though I can't seem to find the old listing now in my saved lists...)
* Alfred WE <wintersweetelectronics at gmail.com> [131106 23:48]:
A few months ago there was a VAX 11 780 on Ebay that
did not get a single
bid. The asking price was $1500. It was located in NY.
On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 9:26 PM, Mark J. Blair <nf6x at nf6x.net> wrote:
>
> On Nov 6, 2013, at 17:43 , Liam Proven <lproven at gmail.com> wrote:
> > On 6 November 2013 21:27, Mark J. Blair <nf6x at nf6x.net> wrote:
> >> Does anybody have a bad tape cartridge they would like to get rid of?
> >
> > I have a whole box of old tapes in my garage, looking for a good home.
> > Some old mainframe reel-to-reel types as well as DEC TK?? cartridges.
> >
> > Free for the postage, as a block or individually.
>
> I'd be interested in at least one of the cartridges for TU58 drives
> (Dectape II?). I'll email you separately to arrange the exchange. I don't
> have any tape drives yet, so I'd like to give others first dibs on the
> other tapes.
>
> I do dream of having a VAX 11/780 with some hard drives and a TU77
> someday, but that's probably not a realistic dream. :)
>
>
> --
> Mark J. Blair, NF6X <nf6x at nf6x.net>
> http://www.nf6x.net/
>
>
>
6 Nov
6 Nov
4:41 p.m.
-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org]
Namens Chris Elmquist
Verzonden: woensdag 6 november 2013 18:54
Aan: cctalk at classiccmp.org
Onderwerp: Re: TU58 capstan solutions anyone ?
On Wednesday (11/06/2013 at 10:21AM -0500), Ethan Dicks wrote:
>
> > Anyone done a T58 here ? Can you let me know what materials I need
> > and process to replace "goo precursor" with tubing/etc ?
> >
> > I don't have a lathe, machine tools, etc available to me (beyond
> > files, a dremel, etc).
>
> http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctech/2007-August/044802.html
>
> I just used ordinary Tygon tubing, 1/2" ID, ISTR. You clean off the
> old rubber from the brass bit in the middle, cut a slice of tubing about
1/4"
thick, then
fit it over the brass and trim any rough edges with an
X-Acto knife so nothing snags the tape. I might have put a drop of
superglue at the Tygon-brass junction to keep it from wandering.
I have also restored two TU-58 drives recently following pretty much recipe. It was difficult to trim the tubing cleanly
so I also "polished"
it with a
Dremel and sanding bit.
My problem is now the tapes. The rubber belt in the tapes also ages
and as soon as you spin up a tape in your newly repaired drive, that belt
will
break.
I've successfully rebuilt maybe (5) tapes from several dozen by stealing
what
appear to be good belts from crappy looking tapes but
even after complete
disassembly, transfer of the belt and reassembly, my luck has been that
that belt
will now break.
There is also an issue with some kind of lubricant in certain tapes that
has
turned
to sticky goo rather than a lubricant. On these
tapes, the tape bobbins
hang up
on their spindles, which puts further load on the belt
and causes it to
break... or
if it doesn't break, causes a drive fault because
the tape isn't moving
like it
should. Some of these I've recovered by cleaning
the lubricant from the
spindles
and everywhere else I can find it inside the cartridge
and then replacing
it with
tiny amounts of a teflon lubricant.
But, too much work, IMO.
I restored the drive for h{istor,yster}ical reasons but I can't see ever
really
using
it again unless somebody starts making new tapes :-)
Chris
--
Chris Elmquist
Chris,
I rebuilded HP-85 tape drives and converted them too QIC40/80 drives.
QIC40 tape are younger and seems to be more durable then the DC100A.
Some QIC40 tapes uses small rubber bands which you can use to fix DC100A
tapes.
DC100A has the same size as the DEC tapes, the only point is the DEC tapes
are formatted.
But if the format is know someone should be able to kludge some electronics
together to format the tapes.
-Rik
3860
days inactive
3861
days old
17 comments
12 participants
participants (12)
-
ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
cclist＠sydex.com -
chrise＠pobox.com -
ethan.dicks＠gmail.com -
hp-fix＠xs4all.nl -
lproven＠gmail.com -
nf6x＠nf6x.net -
rescue＠hawkmountain.net -
teoz＠neo.rr.com -
tsg＠bonedaddy.net -
wilson＠dbit.com -
wintersweetelectronics＠gmail.com