25 Jul
2001
25 Jul
'01
7:37 a.m.
Here's the deal:
I have a circa 1982 IBM PC that has a Seagate ST-251 in it attached to a Data Technology
Corp. DTC-5150CI controller with a BIOS on it. Everything works fine and the PC will boot
up (it's running PC-DOS 3.3) and I can navigate around and look at all the files,
etc.
The problem is that I want to pull the files off of this drive, and the 360K floppy
doesn't appeal to me a method of transfer (the hard drive is almost full.)
There are three ways I can imagine doing this:
1. Get an 8-bit ethernet card working under DOS 3.3 and somehow connect it to my home
network,
2. Install a second HD in the PC that's running off a more modern controller (IDE?),
3. Install the ST-251 into a more modern PC.
I've been trying to get option 3 to work for a week now, but I'm not having any
luck. Any tips? I'm currently trying to get the DTC controller to work in an old EISA
486 with a 1992 AMI BIOS, but I keep getting a "HDD Controller failure" message.
I've tried it both with the controllers BIOS enabled and disabled. If the BIOS is
enabled, it puts up a message saying "1 hard disk" right before the other error
- this is the same message I see on the PC right before it starts booting.
So I know the controller itself is "working", but it's not being recognized
by the BIOS. I'm not sure what's going on.
Any tips? Any other ideas about how to get the data off of this drive? Should I try
another MFM controller?
Daniel
--
Daniel A. Segel
WorldCom
Employee Systems User Support
Phone: 916-373-4810; Vnet: 653-4810; Pager: 888-783-5951; AIM: DanSegel
25 Jul
25 Jul
8:01 a.m.
At 12:37 PM 7/25/01 -0700, you wrote:
Here's the deal:
I have a circa 1982 IBM PC that has a Seagate ST-251 in it attached to a
Data Technology Corp. DTC-5150CI controller with a BIOS on it. Everything
works fine and the PC will boot up (it's running PC-DOS 3.3) and I can
navigate around and look at all the files, etc.
The problem is that I want to pull the files off of this drive, and the
360K floppy doesn't appeal to me a method of transfer (the hard drive is
almost full.)
There are three ways I can imagine doing this:
1. Get an 8-bit ethernet card working under DOS 3.3 and somehow connect it
to my home network,
2. Install a second HD in the PC that's running off a more modern
controller (IDE?),
3. Install the ST-251 into a more modern PC.
I've been trying to get option 3 to work for a week now, but I'm not
having any luck. Any tips? I'm currently trying to get the DTC controller
to work in an old EISA 486 with a 1992 AMI BIOS, but I keep getting a "HDD
Controller failure" message. I've tried it both with the controllers BIOS
enabled and disabled. If the BIOS is enabled, it puts up a message saying
"1 hard disk" right before the other error - this is the same message I
see on the PC right before it starts booting.
So I know the controller itself is "working", but it's not being
recognized by the BIOS. I'm not sure what's going on.
Any tips? Any other ideas about how to get the data off of this drive?
How about LapLink or FastLynx? I've used both of them A LOT and they
work great for situations like this.
Joe
Should I try another MFM controller?
Daniel
--
Daniel A. Segel
WorldCom
Employee Systems User Support
Phone: 916-373-4810; Vnet: 653-4810; Pager: 888-783-5951; AIM: DanSegel
8:09 a.m.
--- "Daniel A. Segel" <Daniel.Segel(a)wcom.com> wrote:
Here's the deal:
I have a circa 1982 IBM PC that has a Seagate ST-251 in it attached to a Data
Technology Corp. DTC-5150CI controller with a BIOS on it.
A very standard controller for the day. I had one on my Amiga via "The Wedge".
The problem is that I want to pull the files off of
this drive, and the 360K
floppy doesn't appeal to me a method of transfer (the hard drive is almost
full.)
Ugh. Lotsa swaps.
There are three ways I can imagine doing this:
1. Get an 8-bit ethernet card working under DOS 3.3 and somehow connect it to
my home network,
MS-DOS Kermit supports an interface to a packet driver. I have my Commodore
Colt (PC-XT) attached to the network this way. I load the packet driver, then
fire off Kermit. Instead of "set port com1" or some such, it's "set
ip...".
Once you have all the parameters set (I have a Kermit batch file), it's just
like using it over a serial port - "C" to connect, "<CTRL-\>C"
to get back
to the prompt, etc. I usually kermit to my SPARC server, login in, run Kermit
there, then move files.
I backed up a PS/2 Model 30 with a 50Mb RLL drive on an ISA controller this
way.
Unless you have some sort of machine running a telnet daemon that you can
run Kermit over, there's nothing to catch your session on the other end.
If all you have are M$ boxes, I wouldn't recommend this solution.
2. Install a second HD in the PC that's running
off a more modern controller
(IDE?),
You would need to set the modern controller to a non-conflicting address. An
8-bit SCSI card might do the trick.
3. Install the ST-251 into a more modern PC.
Could be tricky, especially depending on what else is in there.
I've been trying to get option 3 to work for a
week now, but I'm not having
any luck. Any tips? I'm currently trying to get the DTC controller to work in
an old EISA 486 with a 1992 AMI BIOS, but I keep getting a "HDD Controller
failure" message. I've tried it both with the controllers BIOS enabled and
disabled. If the BIOS is enabled, it puts up a message saying "1 hard disk"
right before the other error - this is the same message I see on the PC right
before it starts booting.
So I know the controller itself is "working", but it's not being
recognized
by the BIOS. I'm not sure what's going on.
I don't know how well modern machines work with 8-bit disk controllers. I'd
be concerned about IRQ/DMA conflicts. Additionally, I'd not try it in an EISA
machine because I wouldn't want to mess with the config files.
Any tips? Any other ideas about how to get the data
off of this drive? Should
I try another MFM controller?
You should leave that drive on the DTC-5150. It's formatted for it. The trick
is to either get it working in a new box or get something else working in
the box with it, or...
Two other ways to do it - 1) use Kermit on the serial port. Sure, 40Mb will
take a while to squirt out of an 8250 serial chip (don't try rates much
over 19.2kbps), but all the equipment is there. 2) Locate a high-density
8-bit floppy controller and use 1.44Mb disks. I have one - it has its own
BIOS to handle the differences. They would be difficult to locate now, so
unless you already have one, it's probably not a good solution.
-ethan
=====
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10:42 a.m.
Two other ways to do it - 1) use Kermit on the serial
port. Sure, 40Mb will
take a while to squirt out of an 8250 serial chip (don't try rates much
over 19.2kbps), but all the equipment is there. 2) Locate a high-density
8-bit floppy controller and use 1.44Mb disks. I have one - it has its own
BIOS to handle the differences. They would be difficult to locate now, so
unless you already have one, it's probably not a good solution.
I would use a parallel port ZIP drive. It only needs to stay working long
enough to copy from HD to ZIP and from ZIP to other machine.
Or MicroSolutions Backpack drive (parallel port)
Or Floptical 20M (SCSI
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin(a)xenosoft.com
10:49 a.m.
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4:09 p.m.
--- Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> wrote:
Or replace the I/O card, or, if you are lucky, it's a dual serial card
with the second chip empty or socketed. That used to be common when
serial cards were >$50 each.
> Two other ways to do it - 1) use Kermit on the serial port. Sure, 40Mb
will
> take a while to squirt out of an 8250 serial
chip (don't try rates much
Of course it's easy enough to replace the 8250 with a 16550. Desolder the
old chip and pop in the new one. Any PC floppy controller will handle 720K disks.
That's twice the
capacity of the 360K ones of course, so it might be worth doing.
If you have media, yes. My Colt has one 720K and one 360K.
Do the ZIP drivers run on an 8088? I thought that at
least some versions
didn't.
Never thought of a ZIP disk. Dunno if it'll work or not. All I have is
one internal IDE and one external SCSI. My housemates use the internal
drive to move files back and forth to the uni computer lab, and I occasionally
use the SCSI one to emergency-boot Macs (got System 7.5.3 on a ZIP).
-ethan
=====
Visit "The Seventh Continent"
http://penguincentral.com/penguincentral.html
__________________________________________________
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Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger
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26 Jul
26 Jul
9:05 a.m.
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30 Jul
30 Jul
4:51 p.m.
Tony Duell skrev:
> > Of course it's easy enough to replace the
8250 with a 16550. Desolder the
> > old chip and pop in the new one.
>
> Or replace the I/O card, or, if you are lucky, it's a dual serial card
Why would _anybody_, particularly on this list, replace
a card rather
than replacing a single, easy-to-get 40 pin chip?
Why not? Replacing the card would keep both intact, and it's not as though PC
serial cards are uncommon by any means. They should be the runner up prize in
our "tonne of 386'es" draw. =)
--
En ligne avec Thor 2.6a.
A conservative is a worshipper of dead radicals.
31 Jul
31 Jul
4:31 a.m.
At 05:51 AM 7/31/01 +0100, you wrote:
Tony Duell skrev:
Because I can get ALL the cards that I want for free and a chip would
cost money and the time to install it. Yes, I could chnage the IC but why
bother? I have better things to spend my time on.
Joe
> > Of course it's easy enough to
replace the 8250 with a 16550.
Desolder the
> > old chip and pop in the new one.
>
> Or replace the I/O card, or, if you are lucky, it's a dual serial card
>Why would _anybody_, particularly on this list, replace a card rather
>than replacing a single, easy-to-get 40 pin chip? 
5:03 a.m.
I'm with Joe on this one. I can go out any day of the week and buy I/O boards
for $2/dozen, or, certainly, for <$2 and the 8250/16C450/16C550 always costs
more than that. These typically have TWO 8250's or whichever equvalent is used
on them. The risk of damage to these extremely low-quality boards, since they
got to be so cheap by cutting the quality, when unsoldering parts is pretty
great, and, if I were going to do that, I'd probably use a torch, which would
ruin the board anyway, expose me to toxic fumes, etc.
It seems pretty silly to me to spend time and resources fixing a <$1 board when
replacing the IC borders on 10x the cost and inconvenience. It's not a scarce
board like one from an old PDP-5. These things were turned out at rates on the
order 5K per hour, from dozens of vendors and there are still millions of them
lying about in junk boxes everywhere.
If you really like desoldering parts, then your time is better spent salvaging
parts that can be reused rather than desoldering known bad parts. Leave the bad
parts in the board and desolder the good ones. It will be another decade before
PC I/O boards are scarce, so I'm only saving a few.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: "joe" <rigdonj(a)intellistar.net>
To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 10:31 AM
Subject: Re: need help with an old ST-251 MFM drive...
At 05:51 AM 7/31/01 +0100, you wrote:
Tony Duell skrev:
Because I can get ALL the cards that I want for free and a chip would
cost money and the time to install it. Yes, I could chnage the IC but why
bother? I have better things to spend my time on.
Joe
> > Of course it's easy enough to
replace the 8250 with a 16550.
Desolder the
> > old chip and pop in the new one.
>
> Or replace the I/O card, or, if you are lucky, it's a dual serial card
>Why would _anybody_, particularly on this list, replace a card rather
>than replacing a single, easy-to-get 40 pin chip?
9:02 a.m.
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4:53 p.m.
On 31 Jul 2001, Iggy Drougge wrote:
[Tony Duell wrote:]
I'm inclined to agree with Tony Duell on this. It's always a better
idea to repair rather than replace, or board-swap, whenever possible.
If someone has a replacement chip on hand, and the proper tools to
replace the defective chip without damaging the circuit board, then
it's much simpler, and quicker, to just replace the chip. Just
because there's a glut of boards for these systems now doesn't mean
there will be in a few years.
--
Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals:
All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature &
rdd(a)rddavis.net 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such
http://www.rddavis.net beliefs and to justify much human cruelty.
Why would _anybody_, particularly on this list,
replace a card rather
than replacing a single, easy-to-get 40 pin chip?
Why not? Replacing the card would keep both intact, and it's not as though PC
serial cards are uncommon by any means. They should be the runner up prize in
our "tonne of 386'es" draw. =) 
25 Jul
25 Jul
11:09 a.m.
Here's an interesting article that appeared on the 22nd in
the San Fransisco Chronicle, which talks about the staying power of
the TRS-80 Model 100:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2001/07/2…
Jeff
--
Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems:
Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File
http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757
8:39 a.m.
On Wed, 25 Jul 2001, Daniel A. Segel wrote:
Here's the deal:
I have a circa 1982 IBM PC that has a Seagate ST-251 in it attached to a Data Technology
Corp. DTC-5150CI controller with a BIOS on it. Everything works fine and the PC will boot
up (it's running PC-DOS 3.3) and I can navigate around and look at all the files,
etc.
The problem is that I want to pull the files off of this drive, and the 360K floppy
doesn't appeal to me a method of transfer (the hard drive is almost full.)
Laplink cable and laplink or equivilant software .....
8307
days inactive
8313
days old
13 comments
10 participants
participants (10)
-
ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
cisin＠xenosoft.com -
Daniel.Segel＠wcom.com -
edick＠idcomm.com -
ethan_dicks＠yahoo.com -
geoffr＠zipcon.net -
jhellige＠earthlink.net -
optimus＠canit.se -
rdd＠smart.net -
rigdonj＠intellistar.net