17 Nov
2012
17 Nov
'12
10:18 a.m.
1) Due to the generosity of Richard (with myself making up the balance
of the cost), there is now a wildcard SSL certificate on the
classiccmp server that can provide encrypted connections for any
subdomain hosted under the classiccmp server. For all of you that host
websites on the classiccmp server, if you're located on a subdomain of
classiccmp.org and wish to take advantage of that let me know and I'll
add it to your virtual host configuration. Thanks Richard!
2) We are finally "in process" of moving our datacenter (where the
classiccmp server is located). We're not actually moving any machines,
we're building new infrastructure at the new datacenter and then
migrating services "across the wire" from the old datacenter to the
new one. Then the equipment at the old datacenter will (mostly) be
scrapped. Generally we don't expect any outages for the classiccmp
mailing list, bitsavers repository, and related classiccmp hosted
websites, but there will be short off-hours periods of time where no
changes should be made to existing content. We'll do our best to make
sure any relevant issues are posted here for the list.
3) Just to make sure that newer listmembers are aware, we will gladly
host any classic/vintage computer related website at no cost for you.
Free disk space, Free bandwidth, etc. We provide this service not just
for individuals but companies and institutions. I should point out
that we'll host any service for free that is vintage computer related
- not just websites. We'll host mailing lists, ftp or rsyncd
repositories, whatever you wish. Hosting services is what one of my
companies does as it's main line of business, so you can be assured of
a world class infrastructure (not just a webserver running in
someone's basement or in a corner of their business server room). If
you have a vintage computer related website or content and you're
tired of paying a monthly fee to have it hosted elsewhere, send me an
email directly (off-list) to jwest at classiccmp.org and we'll get things
set up for you.
Best,
Jay West
17 Nov
17 Nov
12:53 p.m.
On Sat, 17 Nov 2012, Jay West wrote:
1) Due to the generosity of Richard (with myself
making up the balance
of the cost),
THANK YOU, BOTH!
that we'll host any service for free that is
vintage computer related
- not just websites. We'll host mailing lists, ftp or rsyncd
repositories, whatever you wish.
THAT makes me wish that I knew how to set up a GOPHER
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin at xenosoft.com
2:14 p.m.
On 17 November 2012 17:53, Fred Cisin <cisin at xenosoft.com> wrote:
THAT makes me wish that I knew how to set up a GOPHER
Been thinking about writing a Gopher server. How hard can it be?
--
Yoyodyne Propulsion Systems: "The Future Begins Tomorrow"
Visit us at: http://www.yoyodyne-propulsion.net
--------
"I'd like to hold off judgement on a thing like that, sir, until all
the facts are in. "
General "Buck" Turgidson
3:58 p.m.
John Many Jars <john at yoyodyne-propulsion.net> wrote:
On 17 November 2012 17:53, Fred Cisin <cisin at xenosoft.com> wrote:
Haven't had the time I wanted and needed for a C only gopher server, but I had
already run up against a wall on the 'Gopher "Index Format" Standard'.
There
seem to be some additions, which are actually pretty handy which aren't
described that good at all (or at least in the documentation/weblinks I've
found). All the old ones do compile somewhat, if you can find the sources, but
I simply don't want to run it in Python or the like.
Anyone else here want to maybe co-write, and subsequently run, a gopherd in C?
re,
reiche
THAT makes me wish that I knew how to set up a
GOPHER
Been thinking about writing a Gopher server. How hard can it be?
4:08 p.m.
On 17 November 2012 20:58, Sander Reiche <reiche at ls-al.eu> wrote:
Haven't had the time I wanted and needed for a C only gopher server, but I had
already run up against a wall on the 'Gopher "Index Format" Standard'.
There
seem to be some additions, which are actually pretty handy which aren't
described that good at all (or at least in the documentation/weblinks I've
found). All the old ones do compile somewhat, if you can find the sources, but
I simply don't want to run it in Python or the like.
Anyone else here want to maybe co-write, and subsequently run, a gopherd in C?
I was thinking in Ruby.
--
Yoyodyne Propulsion Systems: "The Future Begins Tomorrow"
Visit us at: http://www.yoyodyne-propulsion.net
--------
"I'd like to hold off judgement on a thing like that, sir, until all
the facts are in. "
General "Buck" Turgidson
5:55 p.m.
On 17/11/12 3:58 PM, Sander Reiche wrote:
John Many Jars<john at yoyodyne-propulsion.net>
wrote:
That's masochistic. Modern languages have network libraries too, you
know. :)
--Toby
On 17 November 2012 17:53, Fred Cisin<cisin at xenosoft.com> wrote:
Haven't had the time I wanted and needed for a C only gopher server, but I
had
already run up against a wall on the 'Gopher "Index Format" Standard'.
...
Anyone else here want to maybe co-write, and subsequently run, a gopherd in C? THAT makes me wish that I knew how to set up a
GOPHER
Been thinking about writing a Gopher server. How hard can it be?
re,
reiche
6:20 p.m.
On 17 November 2012 22:55, Toby Thain <toby at telegraphics.com.au> wrote:
That's masochistic. Modern languages have network
libraries too, you know.
:)
That's why I said Ruby. Ruby is written in C, which is what C is for... (;
--
Yoyodyne Propulsion Systems: "The Future Begins Tomorrow"
Visit us at: http://www.yoyodyne-propulsion.net
--------
"I'd like to hold off judgement on a thing like that, sir, until all
the facts are in. "
General "Buck" Turgidson
7:18 p.m.
On 17/11/12 6:20 PM, John Many Jars wrote:
On 17 November 2012 22:55, Toby Thain<toby at
telegraphics.com.au> wrote:
Most modern language compilers are written in their own language, actually.
--Toby
That's masochistic. Modern languages have
network libraries too, you know.
:)
That's why I said Ruby. Ruby is written in C, which is what C is for... (;
7:43 p.m.
On Sat, 17 Nov 2012, Toby Thain wrote:
Most modern language compilers are written in their
own language, actually.
While it is a common exercise in "proofing" a compiler,
it would have made sense only if that particular language was best
suited for compiler writing, rather than any other language specialty :-)
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin at xenosoft.com
8:07 p.m.
New subject: Bootstrapped compilers - Re: classiccmp status
On 17/11/12 7:43 PM, Fred Cisin wrote:
On Sat, 17 Nov 2012, Toby Thain wrote:
Nonetheless, it is the usual route.
Of course the languages I am referring to are much more congenial to
writing compilers than C. (A notable example would be Haskell, but there
are many others.)
--T
Most modern language compilers are written in
their own language, actually.
While it is a common exercise in "proofing" a compiler,
it would have made sense only if that particular language was best
suited for compiler writing, rather than any other language specialty :-)
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin at xenosoft.com
8:49 p.m.
New subject: Bootstrapped compilers - Re: classiccmp status
On 18/11/2012, at 12:07 PM, Toby Thain <toby at telegraphics.com.au> wrote:
On 17/11/12 7:43 PM, Fred Cisin wrote:
On Sat, 17 Nov 2012, Toby Thain wrote:
Nonetheless, it is the usual route. Most modern language compilers are written in
their own language, actually.
While it is a common exercise in "proofing" a compiler,
it would have made sense only if that particular language was best
suited for compiler writing, rather than any other language specialty :-)
From the days when I studied and wrote compilers (which
very much makes this on-topic :-)) I can recall that the following languages are compiled
by compilers written in themselves:
BLISS-10
BCPL
Pascal
c
ALGOL-60 (at least one reference implementation)
SAIL
Other languages were written in something 'more efficient', for example, ALGOL-60
for TOPS-10 is written in MACRO-10 macros which were an attempt to give a high-level
structure to a very large MACRO program.
There are other languages I studied but can't remember what they're written in -
SIMULA-67, SNOBOL, FORTRAN, ALGOL-W, ALGOL-68, Modula-2 - I suspect some of these are
written in themselves but I suspect many of them are assembler programs.
These days c seems to be the favoured implementation language, hence Ruby, Python, Icon
etc are all c programs (although there is a version of Python written in itself).
Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au
Melbourne | "If soccer was meant to be played in the
Australia | air, the sky would be painted green"
18 Nov
18 Nov
3:27 p.m.
New subject: Bootstrapped compilers - Re: classiccmp status
On Nov 17, 2012, at 5:49 PM, Huw Davies wrote:
On 18/11/2012, at 12:07 PM, Toby Thain <toby at telegraphics.com.au> wrote:
Of course you also have a number of languages that are typically implemented in terms of
themselves:
L*
Forth
Lisp
TTFN - Guy
On 17/11/12 7:43 PM, Fred Cisin wrote:
From the days when I studied and wrote compilers (which very much makes this on-topic
:-)) I can recall that the following languages are compiled by compilers written in
themselves:
BLISS-10
BCPL
Pascal
c
ALGOL-60 (at least one reference implementation)
SAIL
Other languages were written in something 'more efficient', for example, ALGOL-60
for TOPS-10 is written in MACRO-10 macros which were an attempt to give a high-level
structure to a very large MACRO program.
There are other languages I studied but can't remember what they're written in -
SIMULA-67, SNOBOL, FORTRAN, ALGOL-W, ALGOL-68, Modula-2 - I suspect some of these are
written in themselves but I suspect many of them are assembler programs.
These days c seems to be the favoured implementation language, hence Ruby, Python, Icon
etc are all c programs (although there is a version of Python written in itself).
On Sat, 17 Nov 2012, Toby Thain wrote:
Nonetheless, it is the usual route. Most modern language compilers are written in
their own language, actually.
While it is a common exercise in "proofing" a compiler,
it would have made sense only if that particular language was best
suited for compiler writing, rather than any other language specialty :-)
5:27 p.m.
New subject: Bootstrapped compilers - Re: classiccmp status
On 17/11/12 8:49 PM, Huw Davies wrote:
On 18/11/2012, at 12:07 PM, Toby Thain<toby at telegraphics.com.au> wrote:
C is more common for *interpreters*, but adding to your list above -
modern *compilers* in their own language include Java, Haskell (GHC &
Hugs), Scala, Python & PyPy, Mercury, Schemes, many Lisps, Factor,
Standard ML, Mythryl, Perl 6 (& NQP), Rust, many Forths, clang, D, and
many others.
As I say: The normal route, a not insignificant reason being that C is
pointlessly painful to write high level code in.
--Toby
On 17/11/12 7:43 PM, Fred Cisin wrote:
On Sat, 17 Nov 2012, Toby Thain wrote:
Nonetheless, it is the usual route. Most modern language compilers are written in
their own language, actually.
While it is a common exercise in "proofing" a compiler,
it would have made sense only if that particular language was best
suited for compiler writing, rather than any other language specialty :-)
From the days when I studied and wrote compilers
(which very much makes this on-topic :-)) I can recall that the following languages are
compiled by compilers written in themselves:
BLISS-10
BCPL
Pascal
c
ALGOL-60 (at least one reference implementation)
SAIL
Other languages were written in something 'more efficient', for example, ALGOL-60
for TOPS-10 is written in MACRO-10 macros which were an attempt to give a high-level
structure to a very large MACRO program.
There are other languages I studied but can't remember what they're written in -
SIMULA-67, SNOBOL, FORTRAN, ALGOL-W, ALGOL-68, Modula-2 - I suspect some of these are
written in themselves but I suspect many of them are assembler programs.
These days c seems to be the favoured implementation language, hence Ruby, Python, Icon
etc are all c programs (although there is a version of Python written in itself).
Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies at kerberos.davies.net.au
Melbourne | "If soccer was meant to be played in the
Australia | air, the sky would be painted green"
17 Nov
17 Nov
7:52 p.m.
On 18 November 2012 00:18, Toby Thain <toby at telegraphics.com.au> wrote:
Most modern language compilers are written in their
own language, actually.
I hear you, but in this case it isn't... it also isn't compiled, but
interpreted. It's a "scripting language".
--
Yoyodyne Propulsion Systems: "The Future Begins Tomorrow"
Visit us at: http://www.yoyodyne-propulsion.net
--------
"I'd like to hold off judgement on a thing like that, sir, until all
the facts are in. "
General "Buck" Turgidson
8:17 p.m.
New subject: Bootstrapped compilers - Re: classiccmp status
On 17/11/12 7:52 PM, John Many Jars wrote:
On 18 November 2012 00:18, Toby Thain<toby at
telegraphics.com.au> wrote:
Well, yes, the use case for C is a bit stronger for a bytecode interpreter.
But not so much for the compiler to bytecode - is Ruby's actually
written in C?
--Toby
Most modern language compilers are written in
their own language, actually.
I hear you, but in this case it isn't... it also isn't compiled, but
interpreted. It's a "scripting language". 
4:25 p.m.
Am 17.11.2012 um 20:14 schrieb John Many Jars:
Why reinvent the Wheel?
http://gopherproxy.meulie.net/gophernicus.org/1/software/gophernicus/server/
Also available as Debian Package - very easy to set up!
:wq! PoC
THAT makes me
wish that I knew how to set up a GOPHER
Been thinking about writing a Gopher
server. How hard can it be?
4:32 p.m.
On 17 November 2012 21:25, Schindler Patrik <poc at pocnet.net> wrote:
Why reinvent the Wheel?
http://gopherproxy.meulie.net/gophernicus.org/1/software/gophernicus/server/
Also available as Debian Package - very easy to set up!
Hahaha. As my wife would say:
"Why collect all that junk"
"Have you got more computer junk in the loft?" (She never goes up there)
"If you give my husband any more junk. I'll rectally insert it in you."
Why go to the moon?
--
Yoyodyne Propulsion Systems: "The Future Begins Tomorrow"
Visit us at: http://www.yoyodyne-propulsion.net
--------
"I'd like to hold off judgement on a thing like that, sir, until all
the facts are in. "
General "Buck" Turgidson
5:02 p.m.
On Sat, 17 Nov 2012, John Many Jars wrote:
Why go to the moon?
"Because nobody has ever been there!"
Because area 51 is too full up with spaceship stuff, and the soundstage in
Langley? closed down, so there isn't a very convenient place to film
another fake landing. So, therefore, it might be easier to just go there.
Could probably finance it by bringing stuff back to sell on eBay.
. . . how much are used Hasselblads worth?
. . . how much for a keychain silver plated with silver that was taken to
space and back?
. . . small sealable containers to hold "real MOON vacuum!"
5:13 p.m.
On 11/17/2012 04:32 PM, John Many Jars wrote:
Hahaha. As my wife would say:
"Why collect all that junk"
"Have you got more computer junk in the loft?" (She never goes up there)
"If you give my husband any more junk. I'll rectally insert it in you."
Why go to the moon?
I won't beat around the bush this time.
It's DIVORCE TIME.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
5:53 p.m.
On 17 November 2012 22:13, Dave McGuire <mcguire at neurotica.com> wrote:
I won't beat around the bush this time.
It's DIVORCE TIME.
It's cool... really. (;
--
Yoyodyne Propulsion Systems: "The Future Begins Tomorrow"
Visit us at: http://www.yoyodyne-propulsion.net
--------
"I'd like to hold off judgement on a thing like that, sir, until all
the facts are in. "
General "Buck" Turgidson
7:55 p.m.
On 18 November 2012 00:36, Dave McGuire <mcguire at neurotica.com> wrote:
Yah. We can tell. ;)
After the kids have left home, she wants to build a straw bail house
at a forestry project we know in Scotland. Life with the Scottish
hippies.
I've already tested it, and I can get 3G if I run a dongle up a tree.
They might even have 4G by then. I'll need some solar panels,
batteries, a wind generator, etc. I can run the BBS from the woods,
when I have enough power.
Maybe that will be divorce time... we'll see. (:
--
Yoyodyne Propulsion Systems: "The Future Begins Tomorrow"
Visit us at: http://www.yoyodyne-propulsion.net
--------
"I'd like to hold off judgement on a thing like that, sir, until all
the facts are in. "
General "Buck" Turgidson
8:09 p.m.
On 11/17/2012 07:55 PM, John Many Jars wrote:
That...almost sounds like fun!
Yah. We can
tell. ;)
After the kids have left home, she wants to build a straw bail house
at a forestry project we know in Scotland. Life with the Scottish
hippies.
I've already tested it, and I can get 3G if I run a dongle up a tree.
They might even have 4G by then. I'll need some solar panels,
batteries, a wind generator, etc. I can run the BBS from the woods,
when I have enough power. Maybe that will be divorce time... we'll see. (:
Good luck.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
9:22 p.m.
> After the kids have left home, she wants to build
a straw bail house
> at a forestry project we know in Scotland. Life with the Scottish
> hippies.
> I've already tested it, and I can get 3G if I run a dongle up a tree.
> They might even have 4G by then. I'll need some solar panels,
> batteries, a wind generator, etc. I can run the BBS from the woods,
> when I have enough power.
OB_Antikythera:
Traces of metals have been found in greece;
they obviously had an early start on metallurgy.
Traces of copper have been found in Italy;
they might even have had an early start on wiring.
No metal traces were found in Scotland;
they obviously went straight to wireless.
9:05 p.m.
On Sat, 17 Nov 2012, Dave McGuire wrote:
On 11/17/2012 04:32 PM, John Many Jars wrote:
Indeed.
g.
--
Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007
http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.
http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home.
Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies.
ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment
A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes.
http://www.scarletdme.org - Get it _today_!
Hahaha. As my wife would say:
"Why collect all that junk"
"Have you got more computer junk in the loft?" (She never goes up there)
"If you give my husband any more junk. I'll rectally insert it in you."
Why go to the moon?
I won't beat around the bush this time.
It's DIVORCE TIME.
5:41 p.m.
Schindler Patrik <poc at pocnet.net> wrote:
Why reinvent the Wheel?
http://gopherproxy.meulie.net/gophernicus.org/1/software/gophernicus/server/
That does look very tidy!
re,
reiche
5:45 p.m.
THAT makes me wish that I knew how to set up a GOPHER
Been thinking about writing a Gopher server. How hard can it be? 
6:06 p.m.
On Sat, 17 Nov 2012, Cameron Kaiser wrote:
Why reinvent the Wheel?
http://gopherproxy.meulie.net/gophernicus.org/1/software/gophernicus/server/
Also available as Debian Package - very easy to set up!
Gophernicus is a very nice server. If you want something simpler, I still
offer Bucktooth (Perl/inetd). Pythonistas may like Pygopherd. Then send me
the hostname, and I'll make sure Veronica-2 indexes it.
Pygopherd is nice, but it seems to enjoy spawning zombies.
--
David Griffith
dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu
A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail?
THAT makes me
wish that I knew how to set up a GOPHER
Been thinking about writing a Gopher
server. How hard can it be?
6:30 p.m.
Gophernicus is
a very nice server. If you want something simpler, I still
offer Bucktooth (Perl/inetd). Pythonistas may like Pygopherd. Then send me
the hostname, and I'll make sure Veronica-2 indexes it.
Pygopherd is nice, but it seems to enjoy spawning zombies.
3:44 p.m.
On Sat, 17 Nov 2012, Fred Cisin wrote:
Ask Cameron. He'll get you straightened out. :)
g.
--
Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007
http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.
http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home.
Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies.
ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment
A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes.
http://www.scarletdme.org - Get it _today_!
On Sat, 17 Nov 2012, Jay West wrote:
I'll second this. Jay is also host to retroarchive.org.
1) Due to the generosity of Richard (with myself
making up the balance
of the cost),
THANK YOU, BOTH!
that we'll host any service for free that is
vintage computer related
- not just websites. We'll host mailing lists, ftp or rsyncd
repositories, whatever you wish.
THAT makes me wish that I knew how to set up a GOPHER
4264
days inactive
4265
days old
29 comments
12 participants
participants (12)
-
cisin＠xenosoft.com -
dgriffi＠cs.csubak.edu -
geneb＠deltasoft.com -
ggs＠shiresoft.com -
huw.davies＠mail.vsm.com.au -
john＠yoyodyne-propulsion.net -
jwest＠classiccmp.org -
mcguire＠neurotica.com -
poc＠pocnet.net -
reiche＠ls-al.eu -
spectre＠floodgap.com -
toby＠telegraphics.com.au