6 Jul
2019
6 Jul
'19
2:54 a.m.
Hi...I am arriving at Gatwick Airport this weds evening1045pm and I have a
17 hour layover. I'd like to visit the national computer museum at
bletchley park about an hour north. I see I can rent a car from the
airport and drive to a hotel near the museum. There are a few hotels with
24/7 desks. Concerns? Total time in England is 17 hours, 8 of which
needed for sleep, plus travel to and from the airport and museum. Not sure
how efficient the car rental return process is, etc. Need some buffer for
unknowns
Thanks in advance
Bill
6 Jul
6 Jul
3:17 a.m.
l?rdag 6 juli 2019 skrev Bill Degnan via cctech <cctech at classiccmp.org>:
Hi...I am arriving at Gatwick Airport this weds
evening1045pm and I have a
17 hour layover. I'd like to visit the national computer museum at
bletchley park about an hour north. I see I can rent a car from the
airport and drive to a hotel near the museum. There are a few hotels with
24/7 desks. Concerns? Total time in England is 17 hours, 8 of which
needed for sleep, plus travel to and from the airport and museum. Not sure
how efficient the car rental return process is, etc. Need some buffer for
unknowns
Thanks in advance
When I visited Bletchley park and TNMOC I went by train from London. Euston
I believe. From Gatwick there are trains to Victoria which are quite quick.
I have never driven myself in London, but has been going with taxi a number
of times from the airports in the London area. The traffic can be quite
bad. Gatwick is south of London and Bletchley is north of London so expect
some queues depending on time.
/Mattis
Bill
3:30 p.m.
On Sun, 7 Jul 2019 at 00:23, Mattis Lind via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
When I visited Bletchley park and TNMOC I went by train from London. Euston
I believe. From Gatwick there are trains to Victoria which are quite quick.
Me too. But then, I lived in London. Still took nearly 2 hours.
But I think you and Peter have missed or not registered Bill's arrival
time. To get to Bletchley from Gatwick by train would definitely be my
preferred way, but I doubt it's possible starting at 11PM, and to be
back again within 17h...
--
Liam Proven - Profile: https://about.me/liamproven
Email: lproven at cix.co.uk - Google Mail/Hangouts/Plus: lproven at gmail.com
Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven - Skype/LinkedIn: liamproven
UK: +44 7939-087884 - ?R (+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal): +420 702 829 053
5:06 a.m.
On Sat, Jul 06, 2019 at 12:54:28PM +0300, Bill Degnan via cctech wrote:
Hi...I am arriving at Gatwick Airport this weds
evening1045pm and I have a
17 hour layover. I'd like to visit the national computer museum at
bletchley park about an hour north. [...]
It's actually *two* hours north; three if you want to add a safety margin.
Remember the old saying: 200 years is a long time in the USA, and 200 miles is
a long way in the UK.
I advise against driving, especially if you're unfamiliar with British roads.
It will be both slower and more expensive than the train for this particular
route because London is in the way. Petrol works out at over $7/gal, and you
get to navigate the infamous M25 motorway-cum-car-park. It's debatable whether
it will be more convenient.
There are railway stations at both Gatwick and Bletchley. Bletchley Park is a 3
minute walk from the station.
If you do the standard tourist thing at the ticket office/machine, they'll
screw you to the tune of ?42.10 for an "any permitted" return ticket, which
sends you on the Gatwick Express to the wrong side of London, the Tube back
across London, and then another train to Bletchley. More changes between more
modes of transport mean more risk of things going wrong.
A "via Ken[sington] Olympia" ticket is ?28.80, which would be my preferred
route anyway. Gatwick to Clapham Junction, a quick change to the next platform,
then onward to Bletchley. You do not need to stop at or change at Olympia.
Both train routes take about two hours; the Olympia one is less frequent and
slower by a few minutes according to the optimistic routing models which think
the Tube pays any sort of attention to the timetable, but tends to be faster in
practice. You might consider buying the more expensive "any permitted" ticket
anyway as insurance to give you more flexibility if things go wrong.
Have a play with https://traintimes.org.uk/GTW/BLY, but if you don't change the
date, it won't show you Olympia routes because they've closed the West London
Line this weekend, ostensibly for maintenance, but possibly just spite. This
won't be the case on Thursday when you're travelling.
11:10 a.m.
Wow I?m jealous,
I lost out this week, it was a choice between Bletchley and Selfriges. My kids wanted to
shop on Oxford street and didn?t want to take a train for a few hours to Bletchley which
would make dad happy. They wanted a something a short walk or tube ride from our hotel
near Hyde park where they could drive me crazy and lighten my wallet.
Cheers,
Corey
corey cohen
u??o? ???o?
Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 6, 2019, at 2:01 PM, Mark Linimon via cctech
<cctech at classiccmp.org> wrote:
On Sat, Jul 06, 2019 at 02:06:12PM +0200, Peter
Corlett via cctech wrote:
they've closed the West London Line this weekend, ostensibly for
maintenance, but possibly just spite.
Thanks. I needed a laugh today.
mcl 
12:09 p.m.
On Saturday, July 6, 2019, 2:10:52 PM EDT, corey cohen via cctech <cctech at
classiccmp.org> wrote:
Wow I?m jealous, I lost out this week, it was a
choice
between Bletchley and Selfriges. My kids wanted to
shop on Oxford street and didn?t want to take a train
for a few hours to Bletchley which would make dad
happy. They wanted a something a short walk or
tube ride from our hotel near Hyde park where they
could drive me crazy and lighten my wallet.
That sounds familiar. The one time I was there, we
neded up not having as much time as we had planned.
So one day, the wife and daughter went to see the
tower while I went to see Bletchley.
BLS
7 Jul
7 Jul
2:40 a.m.
On Sat, Jul 6, 2019, 3:57 PM Peter Corlett via cctech <cctech at classiccmp.org>
wrote:
On Sat, Jul 06, 2019 at 12:54:28PM +0300, Bill Degnan
via cctech wrote:
I believe getting to a hotel in the Bletchely area just before midnight on
Weds from Gatwick will not be so bad due to the later time/less traffic.
The issue it the return.
Refined question - When would I have to depart the museum in order to
travel by rental car (driving legal speeds) from Bletchley to Gatwick
Airport in time for a 4PM flight on 7/11 (A Thursday)? I will have left
the airport originally on an extended layover between flights, I assume I
on my return I will have to go through security all over again.
I greatly appreciate all of the advice given. I really don't like the idea
of pushing it given the times involved but I have the enthusiasm to try if
possible.
Bill
Hi...I am arriving at Gatwick Airport this weds
evening1045pm and I have
a
17 hour layover. I'd like to visit the
national computer museum at
bletchley park about an hour north. [...]
It's actually *two* hours north; three if you want to add a safety margin.
Remember the old saying: 200 years is a long time in the USA, and 200
miles is
a long way in the UK.
I advise against driving, especially if you're unfamiliar with British
roads.
It will be both slower and more expensive than the train for this
particular
route because London is in the way. Petrol works out at over $7/gal, and
you
get to navigate the infamous M25 motorway-cum-car-park. It's debatable
whether
it will be more convenient.
There are railway stations at both Gatwick and Bletchley. Bletchley Park
is a 3
minute walk from the station.
If you do the standard tourist thing at the ticket office/machine, they'll
screw you to the tune of ?42.10 for an "any permitted" return ticket, which
sends you on the Gatwick Express to the wrong side of London, the Tube back
across London, and then another train to Bletchley. More changes between
more
modes of transport mean more risk of things going wrong.
A "via Ken[sington] Olympia" ticket is ?28.80, which would be my preferred
route anyway. Gatwick to Clapham Junction, a quick change to the next
platform,
then onward to Bletchley. You do not need to stop at or change at Olympia.
Both train routes take about two hours; the Olympia one is less frequent
and
slower by a few minutes according to the optimistic routing models which
think
the Tube pays any sort of attention to the timetable, but tends to be
faster in
practice. You might consider buying the more expensive "any permitted"
ticket
anyway as insurance to give you more flexibility if things go wrong.
Have a play with https://traintimes.org.uk/GTW/BLY, but if you don't
change the
date, it won't show you Olympia routes because they've closed the West
London
Line this weekend, ostensibly for maintenance, but possibly just spite.
This
won't be the case on Thursday when you're travelling.
8 Jul
8 Jul
4:14 a.m.
On Sun, 7 Jul 2019 at 11:40, Bill Degnan via cctech
<cctech at classiccmp.org> wrote:
Refined question - When would I have to depart the museum in order to
travel by rental car (driving legal speeds) from Bletchley to Gatwick
Airport in time for a 4PM flight on 7/11 (A Thursday)?
To echo what others have said:
* you will have around an hour and a half at the museum. I would say
that's about the right ballpark.
* there are 2 _entirely separate_ museums on the Bletchley Park site:
** Bletchley Park: https://www.bletchleypark.org.uk/
** The National Museum of Computing: https://www.tnmoc.org/
The BP Museum is just a museum and this largely devoid of anything of
tech interest.
TNMOC has the interesting technology, such as Colossus and so on. It
happens to be situated on the site of BP and in some BP huts and
buildings.
The history in very brief and AIUI is this:
All the wartime activity at BP was classified for ~50y after the war.
Apart from a few nerds -- i.e. us lot -- nobody knew or cared what
happened. Alan Turing was some boring dead mathematician. The park and
mansion was of no interest or significance to anyone but someone owned
it so it didn't get demolished, but most of the land was taken for a
nearby housing estate. A "project" in American English, I think? The
buildings were left to rot.
Then the Enigma project etc. got declassified, computing got old
enough and mainstream enough that cultural awareness of it seeped into
the mainstream. The handful of surviving codebreakers got recognition,
awards etc. People starting trying to reconstruct the machines used.
Much of this effort was onsite because the huts were still there,
derelict and so cheap.
This developed into a museum of computing. That in turn developed into TNMOC.
Meantime, as historical awareness grew, the mansion house got bought
for the nation, preserved and turned into a museum.
People started coming. But while they were interested in the site and
the buildings, most of them were interested in the machines and the
rebuild project and the nerd stuff.
My impression is that the BP museum people were surprised by this,
having thought all the actual nerd stuff was of niche interest and
that the _site_ was the interesting bit.
But what grew into TNMOC was the big tourist attraction.
So the 2 entities are _rivals_. My impression is that the BP people
resent TNMOC and the nerds, but they need the rent, the income, the
tourist draw. Without TNMOC the BP museum would collapse. But that
means they need those horrible smelly nerds and their nasty machines,
and the weirdoes who want to see them, instead of decent clean-living
upright folk who respect British Military History and want to know
about the noble heroic military effort.
The fact that the nerds know that Turing was gay, and convicted as a
criminal for it, and was hounded to death by the Establishment instead
of being lauded as a war hero -- the story the BP museum would rather
tell -- is even worse.
Result? The publicity material, signposts etc. doesn't mention TNMOC.
The ticket doesn't cover TNMOC. When I asked about TNMOC I got the
impression that the salesperson didn't want to tell me and wanted to
pretend it didn't exist.
You need 2 tickets. You need to visit 2 separate sites, located a few
yards apart, and you can't move from one to the other.
You could spent 30min having a very quick hustle around the park and
the mansion and their huts, then go get a TNMOC ticket and spend an
hour having a very quick hustle around TNMOC seeing all the lovely old
kit and mourning that you don't have time to read any labels, play
with anything, and that if it's like it was when I was there 7-8y ago,
that it's sad that so much kit isn't connected or running or restored
because they don't have enough volunteers.
Then you'll have to run for your car after a very hasty and
unsatisfactory 90 minute visit and if there are any bad traffic
problems you might still miss your plane. :-(
British roads are small, narrow and congested. Our traffic is
horrifyingly bad. 2?h to do 90 miles is somewhat optimistic.
Saying that, I think you'll still be glad you did it and would be sad
to miss it.
I will have left
the airport originally on an extended layover between flights, I assume I
on my return I will have to go through security all over again.
Yes. Nowhere else has flights like American flights. Yours are like a
bus service to us: walk in, pay, fly. I've only done it once and it
was amazing.
All flights in and out of Britain are full international flights. You
need to be there and getting in the line for check-in 2 hours before
scheduled departure, regardless of flight delays. You will have to do
full security, passport control, immigration etc. Expect to be treated
like you just got home to the USA after a decade in Moscow and you've
grown a beard and acquired a strong Russian accent.
So allow at least half an hour to park up, return your hire car, find
the right terminal, etc.
So if your flight is from LGW at 4, you need to schedule your return
for about 1:30 PM. That means leaving BP at about 11AM, I'm afraid. So
you have about 45min each in the 2 museums at best. I'd do BP first,
move as fast as you can, then spend the bulk of your time on TNMOC.
I greatly appreciate all of the advice given. I
really don't like the idea
of pushing it given the times involved but I have the enthusiasm to try if
possible.
It will be a major effort to do it at all.
Britain looks small but it's not. It's effectively ?-? the size of the
USA, in density of people, buildings etc., and our critical
infrastructure dates from the late Roman Empire to the modern stuff
which is slightly newer than the USA War of Independence.
In US terms, trying to get to BP and back when you have 17h is roughly
equivalent to trying to see Niagara Falls when you have 1 day in
Manhattan. Or visiting Hollywood if you have an overnight stop in San
Francisco.
--
Liam Proven - Profile: https://about.me/liamproven
Email: lproven at cix.co.uk - Google Mail/Hangouts/Plus: lproven at gmail.com
Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven - Skype/LinkedIn: liamproven
UK: +44 7939-087884 - ?R (+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal): +420 702 829 053
4:43 a.m.
To echo what others have said:
* you will have around an hour and a half at the museum. I would say
that's about the right ballpark.
* there are 2 _entirely separate_ museums on the Bletchley Park site:
** Bletchley Park: https://www.bletchleypark.org.uk/
** The National Museum of Computing: https://www.tnmoc.org/
The BP Museum is just a museum and this largely devoid of anything of
tech interest.
TNMOC has the interesting technology, such as Colossus and so on. It
happens to be situated on the site of BP and in some BP huts and
buildings.
I have some hand written code for the Elliot 802 and I spoke with Peter
Onion who runs the Elliot 803 machine, he is going to meet me there. So
all I need is time enough for that and my focus is the Elliot 802, so I can
drop off my code in person. Seems like a lot but I just want to be sure to
see the Elliot 803 while I am around.
Bill
5:53 a.m.
Liam,
As one of the TNMOC Members (roughly equivalent to "friends" in other museums)
I don't think Bletchley Park would collapse without TNMOC. It has huge income from
renting out buildings other than those TNMOC use.
It has many visitors who are interesting in the place and the story and the tearoom who
don't care about technology. In deference to them it has removed most of the
technology, (and paid to move the Bombe but not for the room re-fit)
It has basically adopted the "Tea Room" strategy used by the National Trust in
the UK. Keep your visitors on-site after their visit by offering a very nice expensive and
profitable tea room.
It also won considerable lottery funding and is pretty affluent:-
https://beta.charitycommission.gov.uk/charity-details/?subid=0®id=10…
in contrast TNMOC has received no government money (all donations welcome), receives fewer
visitors, and has to be careful with its money....
I wouldn't like to comment on relationships, but they appeal to very different
audiences. There is now some signage at the main gate but its minimal...
Dave
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk <cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org> On Behalf Of Liam Proven via
cctalk
Sent: 08 July 2019 12:15
To: General Discussion: On-Topic Posts <cctech at classiccmp.org>
Subject: Re: Wtd: advice upcoming visit to Bletchley Park / comp museum
On Sun, 7 Jul 2019 at 11:40, Bill Degnan via cctech <cctech at classiccmp.org>
wrote:
Refined question - When would I have to depart the museum in order to
travel by rental car (driving legal speeds) from Bletchley to Gatwick
Airport in time for a 4PM flight on 7/11 (A Thursday)?
To echo what others have said:
* you will have around an hour and a half at the museum. I would say that's
about the right ballpark.
* there are 2 _entirely separate_ museums on the Bletchley Park site:
** Bletchley Park: https://www.bletchleypark.org.uk/
** The National Museum of Computing: https://www.tnmoc.org/
The BP Museum is just a museum and this largely devoid of anything of tech
interest.
TNMOC has the interesting technology, such as Colossus and so on. It
happens to be situated on the site of BP and in some BP huts and buildings.
The history in very brief and AIUI is this:
All the wartime activity at BP was classified for ~50y after the war.
Apart from a few nerds -- i.e. us lot -- nobody knew or cared what happened.
Alan Turing was some boring dead mathematician. The park and mansion was
of no interest or significance to anyone but someone owned it so it didn't get
demolished, but most of the land was taken for a nearby housing estate. A
"project" in American English, I think? The buildings were left to rot.
Then the Enigma project etc. got declassified, computing got old enough and
mainstream enough that cultural awareness of it seeped into the
mainstream. The handful of surviving codebreakers got recognition, awards
etc. People starting trying to reconstruct the machines used.
Much of this effort was onsite because the huts were still there, derelict and
so cheap.
This developed into a museum of computing. That in turn developed into
TNMOC.
Meantime, as historical awareness grew, the mansion house got bought for
the nation, preserved and turned into a museum.
People started coming. But while they were interested in the site and the
buildings, most of them were interested in the machines and the rebuild
project and the nerd stuff.
My impression is that the BP museum people were surprised by this, having
thought all the actual nerd stuff was of niche interest and that the _site_ was
the interesting bit.
But what grew into TNMOC was the big tourist attraction.
So the 2 entities are _rivals_. My impression is that the BP people resent
TNMOC and the nerds, but they need the rent, the income, the tourist draw.
Without TNMOC the BP museum would collapse. But that means they need
those horrible smelly nerds and their nasty machines, and the weirdoes who
want to see them, instead of decent clean-living upright folk who respect
British Military History and want to know about the noble heroic military
effort.
The fact that the nerds know that Turing was gay, and convicted as a criminal
for it, and was hounded to death by the Establishment instead of being
lauded as a war hero -- the story the BP museum would rather tell -- is even
worse.
Result? The publicity material, signposts etc. doesn't mention TNMOC.
The ticket doesn't cover TNMOC. When I asked about TNMOC I got the
impression that the salesperson didn't want to tell me and wanted to
pretend it didn't exist.
You need 2 tickets. You need to visit 2 separate sites, located a few yards
apart, and you can't move from one to the other.
You could spent 30min having a very quick hustle around the park and the
mansion and their huts, then go get a TNMOC ticket and spend an hour
having a very quick hustle around TNMOC seeing all the lovely old kit and
mourning that you don't have time to read any labels, play with anything, and
that if it's like it was when I was there 7-8y ago, that it's sad that so much
kit
isn't connected or running or restored because they don't have enough
volunteers.
Then you'll have to run for your car after a very hasty and unsatisfactory 90
minute visit and if there are any bad traffic problems you might still miss your
plane. :-(
British roads are small, narrow and congested. Our traffic is horrifyingly bad.
2?h to do 90 miles is somewhat optimistic.
Saying that, I think you'll still be glad you did it and would be sad to miss it.
I will have left
the airport originally on an extended layover between flights, I
assume I on my return I will have to go through security all over again.
Yes. Nowhere else has flights like American flights. Yours are like a bus
service to us: walk in, pay, fly. I've only done it once and it was amazing.
All flights in and out of Britain are full international flights. You need to be
there and getting in the line for check-in 2 hours before scheduled
departure, regardless of flight delays. You will have to do full security,
passport control, immigration etc. Expect to be treated like you just got
home to the USA after a decade in Moscow and you've grown a beard and
acquired a strong Russian accent.
So allow at least half an hour to park up, return your hire car, find the right
terminal, etc.
So if your flight is from LGW at 4, you need to schedule your return for about
1:30 PM. That means leaving BP at about 11AM, I'm afraid. So you have about
45min each in the 2 museums at best. I'd do BP first, move as fast as you can,
then spend the bulk of your time on TNMOC.
I greatly appreciate all of the advice given. I
really don't like the
idea of pushing it given the times involved but I have the enthusiasm
to try if possible.
It will be a major effort to do it at all.
Britain looks small but it's not. It's effectively ?-? the size of the USA, in
density of people, buildings etc., and our critical infrastructure dates from the
late Roman Empire to the modern stuff which is slightly newer than the USA
War of Independence.
In US terms, trying to get to BP and back when you have 17h is roughly
equivalent to trying to see Niagara Falls when you have 1 day in Manhattan.
Or visiting Hollywood if you have an overnight stop in San Francisco.
--
Liam Proven - Profile: https://about.me/liamproven
Email: lproven at cix.co.uk - Google Mail/Hangouts/Plus: lproven at gmail.com
Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven - Skype/LinkedIn: liamproven
UK: +44 7939-087884 - ?R (+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal): +420 702 829 053
6:48 a.m.
On Mon, 8 Jul 2019 at 14:53, Dave Wade <dave.g4ugm at gmail.com> wrote:
I wouldn't like to comment on relationships, but they appeal to very different
audiences. There is now some signage at the main gate but its minimal...
OK, noted.
So apart from my comment that BP depended on the revenues and draw of
TNMOC, and that actually BP is doing fine, you have no other
corrections to make?
That's very interesting.
BTW I won't quote you, this isn't leading up to anything anywhere or
anything like that. Purely trying to set reasonable (i.e., low)
expectations for Bill.
--
Liam Proven - Profile: https://about.me/liamproven
Email: lproven at cix.co.uk - Google Mail/Hangouts/Plus: lproven at gmail.com
Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven - Skype/LinkedIn: liamproven
UK: +44 7939-087884 - ?R (+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal): +420 702 829 053
7:42 a.m.
As for expectations for Bill, my son made a similar journey , by bus, from Oxford to
Gatwick, so a bit of M40 then 75% of the M25 this morning. He allowed 2 hours extra and is
cross because for once he arrived on schedule and had two extra hours at Gatwick to
kill.....
Dave
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk <cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org> On Behalf Of Liam Proven via
cctalk
Sent: 08 July 2019 14:49
To: Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Subject: Re: Wtd: advice upcoming visit to Bletchley Park / comp museum
On Mon, 8 Jul 2019 at 14:53, Dave Wade <dave.g4ugm at gmail.com> wrote:
I wouldn't like to comment on relationships, but they appeal to very
different
audiences. There is now some signage at the main gate but its
minimal...
OK, noted.
So apart from my comment that BP depended on the revenues and draw of
TNMOC, and that actually BP is doing fine, you have no other corrections to
make?
That's very interesting.
BTW I won't quote you, this isn't leading up to anything anywhere or
anything like that. Purely trying to set reasonable (i.e., low) expectations for
Bill.
--
Liam Proven - Profile: https://about.me/liamproven
Email: lproven at cix.co.uk - Google Mail/Hangouts/Plus: lproven at gmail.com
Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven - Skype/LinkedIn: liamproven
UK: +44 7939-087884 - ?R (+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal): +420 702 829 053
6 Jul
6 Jul
12:38 p.m.
New subject: advice upcoming visit to Bletchley Park / comp museum
Bill,
I think you will be cutting things fine. The risks are up to you,
You won't drive from Gatwick to Bletchley in an hour. It?s the wrong side of London.
Google is currently saying 1h 33Mins.
However, the route involves the M25 via Heathrow and that has frequent blockages so IMHO
it?s a risky option.
Conversely getting the train means crossing London and getting a tube. Google is saying
allow 1h 54m for that at present.
Then TNMOC (where all the computers are) does not open until 10.30. Allowing two hours
for a visit means its tight getting back to Gatwick.
Dave
G4UGM
-----Original Message-----
From: cctech <cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org> On Behalf Of Bill Degnan via
cctech
Sent: 06 July 2019 10:54
To: cctech <cctech at classiccmp.org>
Subject: Wtd: advice upcoming visit to Bletchley Park / comp museum
Hi...I am arriving at Gatwick Airport this weds evening1045pm and I have a
17 hour layover. I'd like to visit the national computer museum at bletchley
park about an hour north. I see I can rent a car from the airport and drive to a
hotel near the museum. There are a few hotels with
24/7 desks. Concerns? Total time in England is 17 hours, 8 of which needed
for sleep, plus travel to and from the airport and museum. Not sure how
efficient the car rental return process is, etc. Need some buffer for
unknowns Thanks in advance
Bill
1:21 p.m.
New subject: advice upcoming visit to Bletchley Park / comp museum
On Sat, 6 Jul 2019, Dave Wade via cctech wrote:
However, the route involves the M25 via Heathrow and
that has frequent
blockages so IMHO it?s a risky option.
I've never been there, so have no first-hand knowledge. But, "Good Omens"
by Pratchett and Gaiman says,
"Many phenomena - wars, plagues, sudden audits - have been advanced as
evidence for the hidden hand of Satan in the affairs of Man, but whenever
students of demonology get together the M25 London orbital motorway is
generally agreed to be among the top contenders for Exhibit A."
Is it really that bad?
It would seem like the museum would be justification for an extra day on
the trip.
(When we went to the National Auto Museum that had been built out of the
remains of the Harrah's Club Collection, we kept it open ended.)
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin at xenosoft.com
2:03 p.m.
New subject: advice upcoming visit to Bletchley Park / comp museum
-----Original Message-----
From: cctech <cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org> On Behalf Of Fred Cisin via
cctech
Sent: 06 July 2019 21:21
To: General Discussion: On-Topic Posts <cctech at classiccmp.org>
Subject: RE: advice upcoming visit to Bletchley Park / comp museum
On Sat, 6 Jul 2019, Dave Wade via cctech wrote:
IMHO even worse. Its 177 miles of motorway which is the usual way to get around London. As
usual it was built as cheaply as possible so originally was only three lanes in each
direction.
These days its mostly 4 lanes, but that meant removing the hard shoulder and replacing it
with spaced refuges. I would say its never without an incident somewhere along its length.
The stretch around Heathrow where the M40 and M4 join is especially bad. I can see on the
"trafficengland" web page
http://www.trafficengland.com/
that even though its 9.30PM there is currently one reported incident with a lane closed on
the stretch approaching Heathrow from the south (so Gatwick)
However, the route involves the M25 via Heathrow
and that has frequent
blockages so IMHO it?s a risky option.
I've never been there, so have no first-hand knowledge. But, "Good
Omens"
by Pratchett and Gaiman says,
"Many phenomena - wars, plagues, sudden audits - have been advanced as
evidence for the hidden hand of Satan in the affairs of Man, but whenever
students of demonology get together the M25 London orbital motorway is
generally agreed to be among the top contenders for Exhibit A."
Is it really that bad?
It would seem like the museum would be justification
for an extra day on the
trip.
If you really want to do justice to Bletchley you need two days. The Bletchley Park Museum
which has lots of information about code breaking and also the Amateur Radio station needs
3 or 4 hours to do it justice..
They have several encryption machines including Enigma. However what for me is the
interesting hardware, so the Turing Welchman Bombe re-build and Tommy Flower's
Colossus re-build are at TNMOC which is a separate museum on a separate part of the site.
That?s where I usually go (But I am on the Members Club committee). That is imho also
worth the best part of a day to visit.
If you want to visit TNMOC you go past the entrance to the Bletchly Park Trust entrance
and drive up the side to the TNMOC. The security man will usually guide you.
(When we went to the National Auto Museum that had
been built out of the
remains of the Harrah's Club Collection, we kept it open ended.)
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin at xenosoft.com
Dave
5:56 p.m.
New subject: advice upcoming visit to Bletchley Park / comp museum
If you really want to do justice to Bletchley you need
two days.
I did the site (three museums, plus the actual Bletchley house) in
about six hours. They threw me out when I mentioned B-Deinst, but I
was done anyway.
Less than three hours is really not good - you would miss too much,
especially the demos.
Bill, with your time constraints, go into London and spend the time at
the V&A. Completely worth it.
--
Will
11:23 p.m.
New subject: advice upcoming visit to Bletchley Park / comp museum
-----Original Message-----
From: William Donzelli <wdonzelli at gmail.com>
Sent: 07 July 2019 01:56
To: Dave Wade <dave.g4ugm at gmail.com>; General Discussion: On-Topic
Posts <cctech at classiccmp.org>
Subject: Re: advice upcoming visit to Bletchley Park / comp museum
But did you do it justice? It?s a lot of walking.
If you really want to do justice to Bletchley you
need two days.
I did the site (three museums, plus the actual Bletchley house) in about six
hours. They threw me out when I mentioned B-Deinst, but I was done
anyway.
Less than three hours is really not good - you would miss too much, especially
the demos.
I still think three hours is pushing it..
Bill, with your time constraints, go into London and
spend the time at the
V&A. Completely worth it.
I would have chosen Science museum, but it all depends on what sort of thing you enjoy...
... as a child my favourite museum was the Maritime Museum at Grenwich...
--
Will
11:48 p.m.
New subject: advice upcoming visit to Bletchley Park / comp museum
I was thinking of going over for a visit, but try to fly into Luton and
save a lot of travel. If I want to go to London, take the train.
Paul
On Sun, Jul 7, 2019 at 1:24 AM Dave Wade via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
wrote:
-----Original
Message-----
From: William Donzelli <wdonzelli at gmail.com>
Sent: 07 July 2019 01:56
To: Dave Wade <dave.g4ugm at gmail.com>; General Discussion: On-Topic
Posts <cctech at classiccmp.org>
Subject: Re: advice upcoming visit to Bletchley Park / comp museum
six
If you really want to do justice to Bletchley you
need two days.
I did the site (three museums, plus the actual Bletchley house) in about hours. They threw me out when I mentioned
B-Deinst, but I was done
anyway.
But did you do it justice? It?s a lot of walking.
Less than three hours is really not good - you would miss too much,
especially
the demos.
I still think three hours is pushing it..
Bill, with your time constraints, go into London
and spend the time at
the
V&A. Completely worth it.
I would have chosen Science museum, but it all depends on what sort of
thing you enjoy...
... as a child my favourite museum was the Maritime Museum at Grenwich...
--
Will
7 Jul
7 Jul
12:03 a.m.
New subject: advice upcoming visit to Bletchley Park / comp museum
Paul,
I think Luton is a really bad choice if you are using Public Transport. If you are
driving that?s not too bad unless its Friday afternoon when the entire UK road system
seems to disintegrate. (Actually, in July and August it?s a little better).
Its not on the same train line as Bletchly/Milton Keynes so you end up with a messy
journey involving busses?. Take a look in Google Maps its pretty good for UK busses and
trains. It show 1 Hour and 39 mins direct. Or 2 hours in and out of London.
Dave
From: Paul Anderson <useddec at gmail.com>
Sent: 07 July 2019 07:48
To: Dave Wade <dave.g4ugm at gmail.com>; General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic
Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Subject: Re: advice upcoming visit to Bletchley Park / comp museum
I was thinking of going over for a visit, but try to fly into Luton and save a lot of
travel. If I want to go to London, take the train.
Paul
On Sun, Jul 7, 2019 at 1:24 AM Dave Wade via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org
<mailto:cctalk at classiccmp.org> > wrote:
-----Original Message-----
From: William Donzelli <wdonzelli at gmail.com <mailto:wdonzelli at gmail.com>
>
Sent: 07 July 2019 01:56
To: Dave Wade <dave.g4ugm at gmail.com <mailto:dave.g4ugm at gmail.com> >;
General Discussion: On-Topic
Posts <cctech at classiccmp.org <mailto:cctech at classiccmp.org> >
Subject: Re: advice upcoming visit to Bletchley Park / comp museum
But did you do it justice? It?s a lot of walking.
If you really want to do justice to Bletchley you
need two days.
I did the site (three museums, plus the actual Bletchley house) in about six
hours. They threw me out when I mentioned B-Deinst, but I was done
anyway.
Less than three hours is really not good - you would miss too much, especially
the demos.
I still think three hours is pushing it..
Bill, with your time constraints, go into London and
spend the time at the
V&A. Completely worth it.
I would have chosen Science museum, but it all depends on what sort of thing you enjoy...
... as a child my favourite museum was the Maritime Museum at Grenwich...
--
Will
12:37 a.m.
New subject: advice upcoming visit to Bletchley Park / comp museum
Gatwick to Bletchley and back on a Thursday - Difficult.
Public transport or road on a workday in London er.. I don't think so.
Time at Bletchley would be short and you really need the two hour NMOC
guided tour - its a bit of a rabbit warren.
I'm an hour and a bit south west (Newbury) by fast car.
It took a complete day including a private booked tour just for the
Computer Museum.
So go there - stay near - allow 2/3 days - one day = no way
Rod G8DGR
On 06/07/2019 20:38, Dave Wade via cctalk wrote:
Bill,
I think you will be cutting things fine. The risks are up to you,
You won't drive from Gatwick to Bletchley in an hour. It?s the wrong side of
London. Google is currently saying 1h 33Mins.
However, the route involves the M25 via Heathrow and that has frequent blockages so
IMHO it?s a risky option.
Conversely getting the train means crossing London and getting a tube. Google is saying
allow 1h 54m for that at present.
Then TNMOC (where all the computers are) does not open until 10.30. Allowing two hours
for a visit means its tight getting back to Gatwick.
Dave
G4UGM
> -----Original Message-----
> From: cctech <cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org> On Behalf Of Bill Degnan via
> cctech
> Sent: 06 July 2019 10:54
> To: cctech <cctech at classiccmp.org>
> Subject: Wtd: advice upcoming visit to Bletchley Park / comp museum
>
> Hi...I am arriving at Gatwick Airport this weds evening1045pm and I have a
> 17 hour layover. I'd like to visit the national computer museum at bletchley
> park about an hour north. I see I can rent a car from the airport and drive to a
> hotel near the museum. There are a few hotels with
> 24/7 desks. Concerns? Total time in England is 17 hours, 8 of which needed
> for sleep, plus travel to and from the airport and museum. Not sure how
> efficient the car rental return process is, etc. Need some buffer for
> unknowns Thanks in advance
>
> Bill
--
6 Jul
6 Jul
10:56 p.m.
Hello Bill,
On 06/07/2019 10:54, Bill Degnan via cctech wrote:
Hi...I am arriving at Gatwick Airport this weds
evening1045pm and I > have a 17 hour layover. I'd like to visit the national
computer >
museum at bletchley park about an hour north. I see I can rent a >
car
from the airport and drive to a hotel near the museum.
There > are a few
hotels with 24/7 desks. Concerns? Total time in England >
is 17 hours, 8
of which needed for sleep, plus travel to and from > the airport and
museum. Not sure how efficient the car rental > return process is, etc.
Need some buffer for unknowns
It may be too difficult to confidently get there and back in
the time you have.? You could try the Science Museum in London instead:
http://collection.sciencemuseum.org.uk/search/categories/computing-&-da…
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/dir/Gatwick+Airport,+Horley,+Gatwick+RH6+0RD/…
Best wishes
Lorry
---
https://techtinkering.com - Vintage Computers and Programming
https://youtube.com/techtinkering - Lots of CP/M Videos
https://techtinkering.com/articles/mission-impossible-on-cpm/
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