14 Sep
2020
14 Sep
'20
6:35 a.m.
Hi,
for a planned exhibition, I am thinking of restoring two of the machines
to working state again that are in storage here for decades:
- A TI Explorer ("Sperry" labeled)
and
- A Xerox Star (no idea if ours actually ran Interlisp or one of the
other OSes for the Star/Dandelion)
There is "sen?s dandelion restoration blog" at http://dandelion.sen.cx/
(which seems to be very helpful to test the power supply) and, of
course, lots of documents and software on bitsavers. I have quite a bit
of experience with TI1500 machines, so the Explorer feels rather
familiar, but I have never worked with Xerox machines before.
Before I start to disassemble and test the machines, I would be
interested to hear about specific problems you might have experienced
bringing up one of these two machines, preferably those on the
unexpected side.
Some things I could not find so far are the mouse and the console cable
for the Explorer. It seems that the mouse is related to MouseSystems
optical mice used on older Sun/SGI systems (but the interface might be
different?). The fiber optics cable for the display (TI part number
2233200 according to the field service manual) might be another problem
- if you know any details about this, I would be very interested...
Another thing that is also missing is the mouse pad for the three button
optical Xerox mouse. Is it possible that an optical mouse pad for
Sun/SGI machines is compatible?
Best wishes,
??? Michael
14 Sep
14 Sep
7 a.m.
On 9/14/20 6:35 AM, Michael Engel via cctech wrote:
Hi,
for a planned exhibition, I am thinking of restoring two of the machines to working state
again that are in storage here for decades:
- A TI Explorer ("Sperry" labeled)
and
- A Xerox Star (no idea if ours actually ran Interlisp or one of the other OSes for the
Star/Dandelion)
Best people to talk to are Josh Dersch and Ian Finder
9 a.m.
On Mon, Sep 14, 2020 at 6:35 AM Michael Engel via cctech <
cctech at classiccmp.org> wrote:
Hi,
for a planned exhibition, I am thinking of restoring two of the machines
to working state again that are in storage here for decades:
- A TI Explorer ("Sperry" labeled)
and
- A Xerox Star (no idea if ours actually ran Interlisp or one of the
other OSes for the Star/Dandelion)
There is "sen?s dandelion restoration blog" at http://dandelion.sen.cx/
(which seems to be very helpful to test the power supply) and, of
course, lots of documents and software on bitsavers. I have quite a bit
of experience with TI1500 machines, so the Explorer feels rather
familiar, but I have never worked with Xerox machines before.
Before I start to disassemble and test the machines, I would be
interested to hear about specific problems you might have experienced
bringing up one of these two machines, preferably those on the
unexpected side.
Some things I could not find so far are the mouse and the console cable
for the Explorer. It seems that the mouse is related to MouseSystems
optical mice used on older Sun/SGI systems (but the interface might be
different?). The fiber optics cable for the display (TI part number
2233200 according to the field service manual) might be another problem
- if you know any details about this, I would be very interested...
Another thing that is also missing is the mouse pad for the three button
optical Xerox mouse. Is it possible that an optical mouse pad for
Sun/SGI machines is compatible?
Best wishes,
Michael
I've restored a Star/1108 (and wrote a Star emulator) and am in the middle
of an Explorer restoration, I'm happy to help out where I can.
I'd recommend picking up an MFM Emulator (https://www.pdp8.net/mfm/mfm.shtml)
along with the SA1000 adapter for same, for use with the Star. The
original disks are getting more difficult to keep running, and it's also a
lot more convenient for switching between different operating systems, etc.
Remove the sound-deadening foam from the panels of the system, it's getting
crumbly and isn't going to do you any favors to leave it in place. I've
found the power supplies to be fairly reliable. One issue is weak picture
tubes in the displays -- the monitors are powered on with the system and
have no separate off switch, so they tended to get a lot of hours put on
them. We had good luck with a tube rejuvenator on the one we restored at
LCM.
The Star mouse pad can be recreated with a laser printer (I've used this:
http://www.digibarn.com/collections/devices/xerox-mousepad/index.html, and
there's a postscript file floating around out there...). Or any surface
with a fine pattern on it seems to work pretty well; I was able to make it
work on a speckled countertop and the pant leg of my jeans at one point.
It's a lot more forgiving than the Sun mice which need the fixed grid of
the metal mouse pads.
For the Explorer, there are a number of r fa line filter caps in the
system, on the power supply board as well as on a separate board near the
rear of the chassis. I suggest replacing these immediately as they like to
let out smoke. The optical cable is extremely rare and despite some
valiant efforts we haven't found an equivalent, or new-old-stock
replacements. A friend of mine is working on retrofitting modern optics,
and has made some great progress. The mouse is indeed a standard Mouse
Systems, I'm missing mine at the moment and haven't yet gotten to the point
of adapting a mouse to replace it. I suspect it's equivalent to the M2
used on the Sun-2 and LMI Lambda systems.
Media for the Explorer is another question that I'm hoping to answer soon.
There are disk images from the Meroko emulator but my understanding is that
they are incomplete. Bitsavers has QIC tape images but I have yet to try
them. The interface on the Explorer is SCSI but I haven't had luck booting
it from a SCSI2SD w/Meroko images loaded. The disk boxes contain an Emulex
SCSI->MFM bridge, so use of Dave's MFM emulator might make sense here as
well.
If you have disks in your Explorer, let me know -- capturing an image of
their contents would be extremely useful, and the original Maxtor drives
are not long for this world.
Hope that helps a bit, happy to answer any questions... or try anyway.
- Josh
10:02 a.m.
On 9/14/20 9:00 AM, Josh Dersch via cctech wrote:
One issue is weak picture
tubes in the displays -- the monitors are powered on with the system and
have no separate off switch, so they tended to get a lot of hours put on
them. We had good luck with a tube rejuvenator on the one we restored at
LCM.
I found my copies of the Ball HD series service manuals, I'll try to get them
uploaded today.
Xerox used them in the original expansion foam cased 8010 monitors.
The ones Fuji/Xerox used that are in the smaller plastic cases are more
reliable, but I don't have any documentation for those.
10:38 a.m.
On 9/14/20 9:00 AM, Josh Dersch via cctalk wrote:
Media for the Explorer is another question that
I'm hoping to answer soon.
There are disk images from the Meroko emulator but my understanding is that
they are incomplete. Bitsavers has QIC tape images but I have yet to try
them. The interface on the Explorer is SCSI but I haven't had luck booting
it from a SCSI2SD w/Meroko images loaded. The disk boxes contain an Emulex
SCSI->MFM bridge, so use of Dave's MFM emulator might make sense here as
well.
one thing to be aware of is Explorer disks have 256 byte sectors, as I remember
11:34 a.m.
Regarding the mouse- it is a black Mouse Systems optical mouse, terminated in a two row
IDC connector.
If desired, I can take internal pictures and send along the pinout. Let me know.
On Sep 14, 2020, at 09:01, Josh Dersch via cctech
<cctech at classiccmp.org> wrote:
?On Mon, Sep 14, 2020 at 6:35 AM Michael Engel via cctech <
cctech at classiccmp.org> wrote:
Hi,
for a planned exhibition, I am thinking of restoring two of the machines
to working state again that are in storage here for decades:
- A TI Explorer ("Sperry" labeled)
and
- A Xerox Star (no idea if ours actually ran Interlisp or one of the
other OSes for the Star/Dandelion)
There is "sen?s dandelion restoration blog" at http://dandelion.sen.cx/
(which seems to be very helpful to test the power supply) and, of
course, lots of documents and software on bitsavers. I have quite a bit
of experience with TI1500 machines, so the Explorer feels rather
familiar, but I have never worked with Xerox machines before.
Before I start to disassemble and test the machines, I would be
interested to hear about specific problems you might have experienced
bringing up one of these two machines, preferably those on the
unexpected side.
Some things I could not find so far are the mouse and the console cable
for the Explorer. It seems that the mouse is related to MouseSystems
optical mice used on older Sun/SGI systems (but the interface might be
different?). The fiber optics cable for the display (TI part number
2233200 according to the field service manual) might be another problem
- if you know any details about this, I would be very interested...
Another thing that is also missing is the mouse pad for the three button
optical Xerox mouse. Is it possible that an optical mouse pad for
Sun/SGI machines is compatible?
Best wishes,
Michael
I've restored a Star/1108 (and wrote a Star emulator) and am in the middle
of an Explorer restoration, I'm happy to help out where I can.
I'd recommend picking up an MFM Emulator (https://www.pdp8.net/mfm/mfm.shtml)
along with the SA1000 adapter for same, for use with the Star. The
original disks are getting more difficult to keep running, and it's also a
lot more convenient for switching between different operating systems, etc.
Remove the sound-deadening foam from the panels of the system, it's getting
crumbly and isn't going to do you any favors to leave it in place. I've
found the power supplies to be fairly reliable. One issue is weak picture
tubes in the displays -- the monitors are powered on with the system and
have no separate off switch, so they tended to get a lot of hours put on
them. We had good luck with a tube rejuvenator on the one we restored at
LCM.
The Star mouse pad can be recreated with a laser printer (I've used this:
http://www.digibarn.com/collections/devices/xerox-mousepad/index.html, and
there's a postscript file floating around out there...). Or any surface
with a fine pattern on it seems to work pretty well; I was able to make it
work on a speckled countertop and the pant leg of my jeans at one point.
It's a lot more forgiving than the Sun mice which need the fixed grid of
the metal mouse pads.
For the Explorer, there are a number of r fa line filter caps in the
system, on the power supply board as well as on a separate board near the
rear of the chassis. I suggest replacing these immediately as they like to
let out smoke. The optical cable is extremely rare and despite some
valiant efforts we haven't found an equivalent, or new-old-stock
replacements. A friend of mine is working on retrofitting modern optics,
and has made some great progress. The mouse is indeed a standard Mouse
Systems, I'm missing mine at the moment and haven't yet gotten to the point
of adapting a mouse to replace it. I suspect it's equivalent to the M2
used on the Sun-2 and LMI Lambda systems.
Media for the Explorer is another question that I'm hoping to answer soon.
There are disk images from the Meroko emulator but my understanding is that
they are incomplete. Bitsavers has QIC tape images but I have yet to try
them. The interface on the Explorer is SCSI but I haven't had luck booting
it from a SCSI2SD w/Meroko images loaded. The disk boxes contain an Emulex
SCSI->MFM bridge, so use of Dave's MFM emulator might make sense here as
well.
If you have disks in your Explorer, let me know -- capturing an image of
their contents would be extremely useful, and the original Maxtor drives
are not long for this world.
Hope that helps a bit, happy to answer any questions... or try anyway.
- Josh
12:39 p.m.
Hi,
thanks Ian - I think I found the pinout, it was hidden in TI's Display Unit General
Description
(http://bitsavers.org/pdf/ti/explorer/2243151-0001A_displ_Jun86.pdf), Fig. 4-6 - not in
the
Field Service Manual where I expected it...
The mouse has a simple quadrature-encoded output (like Atari ST/Amiga mice) on a 9-pin
SUB-D style connector. Of course, the pinout is different, for the Explorer it is:
1 - +5V DC 250mA
2 - XA
3 - XB
4 - YA
5 - YB
6 - left key (CLKEY-) - so active low buttons, I assume
7 - middle key (CMKEY-)
8 - right key (CRKEY-)
9 - signal/power ground
So it should be easy to build one in case I can't find the original one. It seems that
there was
also a later non-optical mouse version that looked similar to early Genius PC mice.
-- Michael
On 14 Sep 2020, at 20:34, null <ian.finder at
gmail.com> wrote:
Regarding the mouse- it is a black Mouse Systems optical mouse, terminated in a two row
IDC connector.
If desired, I can take internal pictures and send along the pinout. Let me know.
> On Sep 14, 2020, at 09:01, Josh Dersch via cctech <cctech at classiccmp.org>
wrote:
>
> ?On Mon, Sep 14, 2020 at 6:35 AM Michael Engel via cctech <
> cctech at classiccmp.org> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> for a planned exhibition, I am thinking of restoring two of the machines
>> to working state again that are in storage here for decades:
>>
>> - A TI Explorer ("Sperry" labeled)
>> and
>> - A Xerox Star (no idea if ours actually ran Interlisp or one of the
>> other OSes for the Star/Dandelion)
>>
>> There is "sen?s dandelion restoration blog" at
http://dandelion.sen.cx/
>> (which seems to be very helpful to test the power supply) and, of
>> course, lots of documents and software on bitsavers. I have quite a bit
>> of experience with TI1500 machines, so the Explorer feels rather
>> familiar, but I have never worked with Xerox machines before.
>>
>> Before I start to disassemble and test the machines, I would be
>> interested to hear about specific problems you might have experienced
>> bringing up one of these two machines, preferably those on the
>> unexpected side.
>>
>> Some things I could not find so far are the mouse and the console cable
>> for the Explorer. It seems that the mouse is related to MouseSystems
>> optical mice used on older Sun/SGI systems (but the interface might be
>> different?). The fiber optics cable for the display (TI part number
>> 2233200 according to the field service manual) might be another problem
>> - if you know any details about this, I would be very interested...
>>
>> Another thing that is also missing is the mouse pad for the three button
>> optical Xerox mouse. Is it possible that an optical mouse pad for
>> Sun/SGI machines is compatible?
>>
>> Best wishes,
>> Michael
>>
>>
> I've restored a Star/1108 (and wrote a Star emulator) and am in the middle
> of an Explorer restoration, I'm happy to help out where I can.
>
> I'd recommend picking up an MFM Emulator (https://www.pdp8.net/mfm/mfm.shtml)
> along with the SA1000 adapter for same, for use with the Star. The
> original disks are getting more difficult to keep running, and it's also a
> lot more convenient for switching between different operating systems, etc.
>
> Remove the sound-deadening foam from the panels of the system, it's getting
> crumbly and isn't going to do you any favors to leave it in place. I've
> found the power supplies to be fairly reliable. One issue is weak picture
> tubes in the displays -- the monitors are powered on with the system and
> have no separate off switch, so they tended to get a lot of hours put on
> them. We had good luck with a tube rejuvenator on the one we restored at
> LCM.
>
> The Star mouse pad can be recreated with a laser printer (I've used this:
> http://www.digibarn.com/collections/devices/xerox-mousepad/index.html, and
> there's a postscript file floating around out there...). Or any surface
> with a fine pattern on it seems to work pretty well; I was able to make it
> work on a speckled countertop and the pant leg of my jeans at one point.
> It's a lot more forgiving than the Sun mice which need the fixed grid of
> the metal mouse pads.
>
> For the Explorer, there are a number of r fa line filter caps in the
> system, on the power supply board as well as on a separate board near the
> rear of the chassis. I suggest replacing these immediately as they like to
> let out smoke. The optical cable is extremely rare and despite some
> valiant efforts we haven't found an equivalent, or new-old-stock
> replacements. A friend of mine is working on retrofitting modern optics,
> and has made some great progress. The mouse is indeed a standard Mouse
> Systems, I'm missing mine at the moment and haven't yet gotten to the point
> of adapting a mouse to replace it. I suspect it's equivalent to the M2
> used on the Sun-2 and LMI Lambda systems.
>
> Media for the Explorer is another question that I'm hoping to answer soon.
> There are disk images from the Meroko emulator but my understanding is that
> they are incomplete. Bitsavers has QIC tape images but I have yet to try
> them. The interface on the Explorer is SCSI but I haven't had luck booting
> it from a SCSI2SD w/Meroko images loaded. The disk boxes contain an Emulex
> SCSI->MFM bridge, so use of Dave's MFM emulator might make sense here as
> well.
>
> If you have disks in your Explorer, let me know -- capturing an image of
> their contents would be extremely useful, and the original Maxtor drives
> are not long for this world.
>
> Hope that helps a bit, happy to answer any questions... or try anyway.
> - Josh
3:15 p.m.
Another update on the Explorer mouse...
On 14 Sep 2020, at 21:39, Michael Engel via cctech
<cctech at classiccmp.org> wrote:
So it should be easy to build one in case I can't find the original one. It seems
that there was
also a later non-optical mouse version that looked similar to early Genius PC mice.
In the back of the Field Service Manual
(http://bitsavers.org/pdf/ti/explorer/2243131-0001_ExplFieldMaint.pdf),
the non-optical mouse is described (p. 9DT_1-02) and a reference to Logitech's
Logimouse-P7 is given:
http://bitsavers.org/pdf/logitech/P7-3F_quadrature/
-- Michael
1:04 p.m.
Hi Josh,
whow, seems it's my lucky day :) - thanks a lot for the offer!
On 14 Sep 2020, at 18:00, Josh Dersch <derschjo at
gmail.com> wrote:
I've restored a Star/1108 (and wrote a Star emulator) and am in the middle of an
Explorer restoration, I'm happy to help out where I can.
I'd recommend picking up an MFM Emulator (https://www.pdp8.net/mfm/mfm.shtml) along
with the SA1000 adapter for same, for use with the Star. The original disks are getting
more difficult to keep running, and it's also a lot more convenient for switching
between different operating systems, etc.
That's definitely a good idea - and good to know that the disks are simply MFM and not
some more exotic standard such as SMD.
Remove the sound-deadening foam from the panels of the
system, it's getting crumbly and isn't going to do you any favors to leave it in
place.
Yeah, I remember the TI1500s also had that problem and the stuff is pretty nasty.
I've found the power supplies to be fairly
reliable.
Good to know - analog power electronics is not really my area of expertise, but we have a
competent electronics department nearby that can probably help just in case.
One issue is weak picture tubes in the displays --
the monitors are powered on with the system and have no separate off switch, so they
tended to get a lot of hours put on them. We had good luck with a tube rejuvenator on the
one we restored at LCM.
Yes, the picture seems to be burnt in quite a bit in all of the displays (we have three
systems here). Not sure if I can find a tube rejuvenator here in Trondheim, but you never
know.
The Star mouse pad can be recreated with a laser
printer (I've used this:
http://www.digibarn.com/collections/devices/xerox-mousepad/index.html, and there's a
postscript file floating around out there...). Or any surface with a fine pattern on it
seems to work pretty well; I was able to make it work on a speckled countertop and the
pant leg of my jeans at one point. It's a lot more forgiving than the Sun mice which
need the fixed grid of the metal mouse pads.
Great, thanks!
For the Explorer, there are a number of r fa line
filter caps in the system, on the power supply board as well as on a separate board near
the rear of the chassis. I suggest replacing these immediately as they like to let out
smoke.
Good to know, I'll take care. The roller-type fans (hope that's the correct
English term) also made some problems at least on the large TI1500 system back in the
'90s, the Explorer should use the identical chassis.
The optical cable is extremely rare and despite some
valiant efforts we haven't found an equivalent, or new-old-stock replacements. A
friend of mine is working on retrofitting modern optics, and has made some great progress.
It seems that the TI931 terminals also had a fiber optics option and used the same cable
(http://bitsavers.org/pdf/ti/terminal/crt/2229228-0001A_Model_931_Video_Disp…)
- but I've never seen a 931 using that option. So that won't make the cable easier
to find.
The mouse is indeed a standard Mouse Systems, I'm
missing mine at the moment and haven't yet gotten to the point of adapting a mouse to
replace it. I suspect it's equivalent to the M2 used on the Sun-2 and LMI Lambda
systems.
Hm, on some photos I found the Explorer mouse looks identical to the Sun-2 mice (black
case with white buttons). However, the Sun-2 (just checked the schematics on bitsavers)
already used a serial interface (via a Z8530 SCC) to connect to the mouse, the Explorer
(see my other post with the pinout I found) seems to use quadrature encoding. But maybe
there have been different options for the Explorer.
Media for the Explorer is another question that
I'm hoping to answer soon. There are disk images from the Meroko emulator but my
understanding is that they are incomplete. Bitsavers has QIC tape images but I have yet
to try them. The interface on the Explorer is SCSI but I haven't had luck booting it
from a SCSI2SD w/Meroko images loaded. The disk boxes contain an Emulex SCSI->MFM
bridge, so use of Dave's MFM emulator might make sense here as well.
I think the firmware on the NUPI-2 NuBus disk/tape controllers (this has its own 68000
CPU) speaks a pre-standardisation SCSI protocol variant (something closer to the original
SASI, I think). The TI1500 used Imprimis/CDC WREN 670 MB disks (probably WREN VFH
94181-702) by default IIRC - and those were the only disks (of that size) that worked
reliably on the 1500. I assume the NUPI-2 in the Explorer is identical, so that might be
the problem with SCSI2SD. We have a number of the disk enclosures, so I hope that some of
the disks still work.
If you have disks in your Explorer, let me know --
capturing an image of their contents would be extremely useful, and the original Maxtor
drives are not long for this world.
We have four machines with drives, I'll definitely do an image of all of the disks
first and will also check if I can find some install tapes.
Hope that helps a bit, happy to answer any
questions... or try anyway.
Thanks a lot - the machines will definitely keep me busy in the upcoming rainy weekends
and evenings...
Best wishes,
Michael
15 Sep
15 Sep
1:54 p.m.
On Sep 14, 2020, at 9:00 AM, Josh Dersch via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
wrote:
The Star mouse pad can be recreated with a laser printer (I've used this:
http://www.digibarn.com/collections/devices/xerox-mousepad/index.html, and
there's a postscript file floating around out there?).
Here?s some PostScript that was based on Xerox?s patent:
http://rendezvous.eschatologist.net/xerox/XeroxMousepad.ps
I?ve also put a PDF version here:
http://rendezvous.eschatologist.net/xerox/XeroxMousepad.pdf
It just needs to be printed at sufficiently high resolution to be used as a mousepad.
? Chris
14 Sep
14 Sep
6:12 p.m.
On Mon, Sep 14, 2020 at 03:35:50PM +0200, Michael Engel wrote:
Before I start to disassemble and test the machines, I would be interested
to hear about specific problems you might have experienced bringing up one
of these two machines, preferably those on the unexpected side.
I recently worked on getting a Xerox Star running.
https://lists.vcfed.org/pipermail/vcf-midatlantic/2020-August/018468.html
Others finished getting it running last weekend.
If it has a Quantum Q2040 the heads will likely be glued in place by
a deteriorating rubber stop. The page above has link to how I delt with it
to recover the drive contents. Some also have dry bearings. We decided to
use a drive emulator for now using the Darkstar Viewpoint disk image.
Also check the voltage drop on the +5.2 under load discussed in the page
linked to.
Another thing that is also missing is the mouse pad
for the three button
optical Xerox mouse. Is it possible that an optical mouse pad for Sun/SGI
machines is compatible?
You can print one
http://www.digibarn.com/collections/devices/xerox-mousepad/index.html
8:44 p.m.
On Mon, 14 Sep 2020 15:35:50 +0200
Michael Engel via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
Hi,
for a planned exhibition, I am thinking of restoring two of the
machines to working state again that are in storage here for decades:
- A TI Explorer ("Sperry" labeled)
and
- A Xerox Star (no idea if ours actually ran Interlisp or one of the
other OSes for the Star/Dandelion)
Awesome. I hope there will be online coverage of the exhibition.
<cut>
Some things I could not find so far are the mouse and
the console
cable for the Explorer. It seems that the mouse is related to
MouseSystems optical mice used on older Sun/SGI systems (but the
interface might be different?). The fiber optics cable for the
display (TI part number 2233200 according to the field service
manual) might be another problem
- if you know any details about this, I would be very interested...
This is the same part # listed for the 990, and I would think, lacking
documentation on them, the BS600 and BS800 machines, if using
the CI404 comm board. I don't know how common those were. My college
only started using them after a lightning strike took out some machines
through one or more serial links, iirc. But that may broaden your search.
From the CI403/CI404 manual
(http://bitsavers.org/pdf/ti/990/datacomm/2263897_9701B_CI403_Nov83.pdf):
2233200-0001 Standard duplex fiber-optic cable, 15m
2233201-0002 Fiber-optic extension cable, 60m
2233201-0003 Fiber-optic extension cable, 150m
2233201-0004 Fiber-optic extension cable, 300m
2233210-0001 Converter module kit, includes: Converter,
Power Module, and Power Cord.
The extension cables include a connector for connectin 2 cables.
I may have some more information on the mouse and maybe some cable specs
soon. Talking to some people who likely know.
jbdigriz
9:04 p.m.
From the CI403/CI404 manual
(http://bitsavers.org/pdf/ti/990/datacomm/2263897_9701B_CI403_Nov83.pdf):
You can try
http://bitsavers.org/pdf/ti/990/datacomm/2263897-9701B_CI403_Nov83.pdf,
too. It may work a little better.
jbdigriz
15 Sep
15 Sep
2:09 p.m.
Well, today's my lucky day :) - I found a box with three TI mice+pads and three fiber
cables:
https://multicores.org/explorer/
If you need any measurements of the connectors or the fiber optic cable itself (I'm
sure
our physics department can help out...) let me know.
And what I thought were simple Tektronix vector terminals turned out to be two Tektronix
4404 machines and one 4406 - the 68010/020-based Smalltalk machines (which can also
run Common Lisp). So more great stuff for our exhibition - and more machines to work
on...
On 15 Sep 2020, at 05:44, James B DiGriz via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
On Mon, 14 Sep 2020 15:35:50 +0200
Michael Engel via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
Some things I could not find so far are the mouse
and the console
cable for the Explorer. It seems that the mouse is related to
MouseSystems optical mice used on older Sun/SGI systems (but the
interface might be different?). The fiber optics cable for the
display (TI part number 2233200 according to the field service
manual) might be another problem
- if you know any details about this, I would be very interested...
This is the same part # listed for the 990, and I would think, lacking
documentation on them, the BS600 and BS800 machines, if using
the CI404 comm board. I don't know how common those were. My college
only started using them after a lightning strike took out some machines
through one or more serial links, iirc. But that may broaden your search.
From the CI403/CI404 manual
(http://bitsavers.org/pdf/ti/990/datacomm/2263897_9701B_CI403_Nov83.pdf):
2233200-0001 Standard duplex fiber-optic cable, 15m
2233201-0002 Fiber-optic extension cable, 60m
2233201-0003 Fiber-optic extension cable, 150m
2233201-0004 Fiber-optic extension cable, 300m
2233210-0001 Converter module kit, includes: Converter,
Power Module, and Power Cord.
The extension cables include a connector for connectin 2 cables.
I may have some more information on the mouse and maybe some cable specs
soon. Talking to some people who likely know.
jbdigriz
2:19 p.m.
On 9/15/20 2:09 PM, Michael Engel via cctalk wrote:
And what I thought were simple Tektronix vector
terminals turned out to be two Tektronix
4404 machines and one 4406 - the 68010/020-based Smalltalk machines (which can also
run Common Lisp). So more great stuff for our exhibition - and more machines to work
on...
Please dump the firmware and image any floppies you have for this, especially the 020
version
And take some internal/external pictures of the unit and the external disk box
A simulator is in development.
2:21 p.m.
On 9/15/20 2:19 PM, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote:
Please dump the firmware and image any floppies you
have for this, especially the 020 version
And take some internal/external pictures of the unit and the external disk box
It should also be possible to image the hard disks, if they still work without having a
running
Tek machine.
2:24 p.m.
On 15 Sep 2020, at 23:19, Al Kossow via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
On 9/15/20 2:09 PM, Michael Engel via cctalk wrote:
> And what I thought were simple Tektronix vector terminals turned out to be two
Tektronix
> 4404 machines and one 4406 - the 68010/020-based Smalltalk machines (which can also
> run Common Lisp). So more great stuff for our exhibition - and more machines to work
on...
Please dump the firmware and image any floppies you
have for this, especially the 020 version
I haven't found any floppies for the Tektronix machines so far (but there are more
unopened boxes...),
but I can dump the disks (they seem to be SCSI) and can certainly also read the EPROMs.
And take some internal/external pictures of the unit
and the external disk box
Finally some good use for my DSLR :).
A simulator is in development.
I found this web page by Seth Morabito:
https://loomcom.com/blog/0120_the_next_emulator.html
Is this the simulator that is under development?
Best,
Michael
2:31 p.m.
On 9/15/20 2:24 PM, Michael Engel via cctalk wrote:
yes, one of them
there is also a skeleton driver in MAME for the 4404
Josh and I both have 4404s we've been trying to get running.
I have some docs and software for the 4404 on bitsavers
A simulator is
in development.
I found this web page by Seth Morabito:
https://loomcom.com/blog/0120_the_next_emulator.html
Is this the simulator that is under development?
Best,
Michael
3:11 p.m.
On Tue, Sep 15, 2020 at 2:31 PM Al Kossow via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
wrote:
On 9/15/20 2:24 PM, Michael Engel via cctalk wrote:
https://loomcom.com/blog/0120_the_next_emulator.html
I did recently get my 4404 running, at last. It runs nicely off of a
SCSI2SD, replacing the SCSI->MFM bridge, should you so choose. I can share
the disk image I did of a clean install of the OS, languages, and tools
that are available on Bitsavers.
I also have an MFM emulator image of a disk that I believe went to a 4406,
but I cannot confirm that it's bootable.
- Josh
A
simulator is in development.
I found this web page by Seth Morabito: Is this the simulator that is under development?
Best,
Michael
yes, one of them
there is also a skeleton driver in MAME for the 4404
Josh and I both have 4404s we've been trying to get running.
I have some docs and software for the 4404 on bitsavers
1521
days inactive
1523
days old
19 comments
8 participants
participants (8)
-
aek＠bitsavers.org -
cmhanson＠eschatologist.net -
derschjo＠gmail.com -
djg＠pdp8online.com -
engel＠multicores.org -
ian.finder＠gmail.com -
jbdigriz＠dragonsweb.org -
lars＠nocrew.org