18 Jan
2003
18 Jan
'03
9:51 a.m.
Having fond memories of using VAXen (specifically, an 8800) back in my
'stoodent' days, and in more recent times too (unknown type @ JP Morgan),
and further having seen numerous references to OpenVMS & VAXen on this
list, I got to thinking...
I'd actually quite like a VAX.
Unfortunately, this is probably impossible in the short term - unless I
want to buy the MicroVAX 3100 currently on eBay @ a fiver. But that's not a
*real* VAX, it's just not big enough... And besides, it hasn't got a
CD-ROM, which I will need to load OpenVMS.
Anyway, following yet another link posted on this list revealed the PDP-11
(and, coincidentally, VAX) simulator. Nice. So I downloads it, along with
MinGW (anyone else think of "minging[1] Windows" immediately, or is it just
me?), compile it, and eventually figure out roughly how to get to the basic
VAX ">>>" prompt. And here, I'm rather stuck.
So, does anyone have any nice'n'easy instructions on how to get the SIMH
VAX simulator ready for OpenVMS? I've read both the simulator document &
the VAX document, and I'm still well in the dark WRT how to get it up &
running... Basically, I've no idea what devices to ATTACH, what or how to
configure it, and so forth.
Obviously, I'll have to sort out an OpenVMS kit before I can do anything
remotely useful, and I'll probably need an extra HDD in the PC (<1gig free
now), blah blah. (oh yes, and Hans has found several faults in my websites
which I /really/ ought to fix first... - but, well, you know how it goes :)
So, can anyone help?
TIA!
[1] "minging" {v}: "really ugly" (he/she's minging) or quite
smelly and
rotten (that bin's minging). UK expression (poss. Northern UK only).
--
Cheers, Ade.
Be where it's at, B-Racing!
http://b-racing.com
18 Jan
18 Jan
10:19 a.m.
IMHO the easiest way to get a vax is get a vaxstation 4000VLC. You can
connect a number of PC CDROMS to the SCSI port on it and have them work
(although there is weirdness with block sizes - get a good drive, I
know Plextor supports the required mode), it takes PC simms and if
memory serves is either a 4 or 8 VUP machine, where 1 VUP = the
performance of an original 11/780. For a single user (especially with
a terminal rather than soaking up cycles with DecWindows) these things
are quite powerful. I have one, but I'm not inclined to sell. :)
3100s are the next best choice, although their proprietary memory is
much more expensive.
I think I gave $120 for my VaxStation, but I forget. It was an ebay
auction. I bought my VT320 from Will, if memory serves, or traded him
for a Kaypro IV, I forget. Also, my boss at Intel (when I was
contracting there a couple years ago) had come from DecSupport, and had
a 320 color they'd sent home with her, along with a printer, which she
offered me for the sake of getting it out of her garage. I still have
to clean the mouse poop out of the thing and really test it out, but it
powered up and seemed to be in reasonable shape when last I tried it.
The point here is that this stuff can be gotten fairly inexpensively.
Check surplus stores, especially. The one here in Podunkville
(Colorado Springs, CO) has quite a selection of DEC hardware.
Also, if you're just into VMS and don't really care about what platform
it actually runs on, I imagine you can get an alpha fairly
inexpensively, which should give you all the power you could ever want.
On Saturday, January 18, 2003, at 04:40 PM, Adrian Vickers wrote:
Having fond memories of using VAXen (specifically, an
8800) back in my
'stoodent' days, and in more recent times too (unknown type @ JP
Morgan), and further having seen numerous references to OpenVMS &
VAXen on this list, I got to thinking...
I'd actually quite like a VAX.
Unfortunately, this is probably impossible in the short term - unless
I want to buy the MicroVAX 3100 currently on eBay @ a fiver. But
that's not a *real* VAX, it's just not big enough... And besides, it
hasn't got a CD-ROM, which I will need to load OpenVMS.
Anyway, following yet another link posted on this list revealed the
PDP-11 (and, coincidentally, VAX) simulator. Nice. So I downloads it,
along with MinGW (anyone else think of "minging[1] Windows"
immediately, or is it just me?), compile it, and eventually figure out
roughly how to get to the basic VAX ">>>" prompt. And here, I'm
rather
stuck.
So, does anyone have any nice'n'easy instructions on how to get the
SIMH VAX simulator ready for OpenVMS? I've read both the simulator
document & the VAX document, and I'm still well in the dark WRT how to
get it up & running... Basically, I've no idea what devices to ATTACH,
what or how to configure it, and so forth.
Obviously, I'll have to sort out an OpenVMS kit before I can do
anything remotely useful, and I'll probably need an extra HDD in the
PC (<1gig free now), blah blah. (oh yes, and Hans has found several
faults in my websites which I /really/ ought to fix first... - but,
well, you know how it goes :)
So, can anyone help?
TIA!
[1] "minging" {v}: "really ugly" (he/she's minging) or quite
smelly
and rotten (that bin's minging). UK expression (poss. Northern UK
only).
--
Cheers, Ade.
Be where it's at, B-Racing!
http://b-racing.com
11:33 a.m.
Unfortunately, this is probably impossible in the
short term
- unless I
want to buy the MicroVAX 3100 currently on eBay @ a fiver.
Didn't see one at a fiver. Saw
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1484&item=…
94356
which is claimed to be a UV3100-95. Assuming it is, then it's
a darned fast VAX (in VAX terms) and really well worth having.
The DLT looks more like a TZ30 to me (still nice to have) and
it's unusual to have a 2.88MB floppy on a VAX. Might be worth
asking for confirmation that it is a VAX (like a log of
it booting to the >>> prompt or a quote of the part number on
the mainboard).
But that's not a
*real* VAX, it's just not big enough... And besides, it hasn't got a
CD-ROM, which I will need to load OpenVMS.
CDROMs are cheap, even the RRD-compatible ones.
Antonio
--
---------------
Antonio Carlini arcarlini(a)iee.org
11:58 a.m.
At 01:36 19/01/2003, you wrote:
That's the one - and blimey, it's jumped nearly ?21 since I looked (it was
at ?5.19).
What is the best place to get them from? It's not something I can see
popping up on eBay every 10 mins...
--
Cheers, Ade.
Be where it's at, B-Racing!
http://b-racing.com
Unfortunately,
this is probably impossible in the short term
- unless I
want to buy the MicroVAX 3100 currently on eBay @ a fiver.
Didn't see one at a fiver. Saw
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1484&item=…
94356 which is claimed to be a UV3100-95. Assuming it is,
then it's
a darned fast VAX (in VAX terms) and really well worth having.
The DLT looks more like a TZ30 to me (still nice to have) and
it's unusual to have a 2.88MB floppy on a VAX. Might be worth
asking for confirmation that it is a VAX (like a log of
it booting to the >>> prompt or a quote of the part number on
the mainboard).
Ah, but in my quest to own one of every computer I've ever used, I'm now
only lacking two: A 48k dead-flesh Spectrum (believe it or not, but I'm in
no hurry, there's millions about), and a VAX8800.
Frankly, the 8800 is too big, but that is too small...
But that's
not a
*real* VAX, it's just not big enough... And besides, it hasn't got a
CD-ROM, which I will need to load OpenVMS.
CDROMs are cheap, even the RRD-compatible ones.
19 Jan
19 Jan
4:42 a.m.
That's the one - and blimey, it's jumped nearly
?21 since I looked (it was at ?5.19).
Given its speed, it's still a bargain.
Frankly, the 8800 is too big, but that is too small...
Then I guess you need to aim for one of the VAX 4000
series, but shipping on those will be pretty
expensive.
What is the best place to get them from? It's not
something I can see
popping up on eBay every 10 mins...
RRD CDrOM drives to crop up, but only every now and then.
If you are willing to ship from the US, there are some
available now.
Otherwise you can try the resellers. Swan seem to have
some in stock, but no price is listed:
http://www.applegate.co.uk/click?http://www.swancomp.co.uk
Antonio
--
---------------
Antonio Carlini arcarlini(a)iee.org
20 Jan
20 Jan
4:45 a.m.
-----Original Message-----
From: cctech-admin(a)classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On
Behalf Of Antonio Carlini
Sent: 19 January 2003 18:46
To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org
Subject: RE: Dear Santa, I would like a VAX....
You're not kidding - not so long back a local college I do work for decided
to toss their 4000-500 plus RRD42 and TLZ06; fortunately I was there at the
time with a suitably sized estate car (station wagon for our US readers) so
2 of us managed to lift it into the back. When I got home I had to
completely strip it down in situ just to lift the bits out on my own and get
it in the house. In my reseller days the 4000 series were delivered on a
pallet with extra ramps to allow you to wheel the machine down to ground
level and now I know why :)
Spent a happy couple of hours or so tonight getting my Alpha 3000-400 and
uVAX 3100-90 going again after a few months in storage, and I wish we could
afford the power to have 2 webservers going at the same time! Since we moved
into this house we've doubled our power requirements just for heating and
lighting; 3 machines going at the same time hasn't helped, so an extra VAX
sized load on things *definitely* won't help :)
cheers
--
adrian/witchy
www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum
www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans
Frankly, the 8800 is too big, but that is too
small...
Then I guess you need to aim for one of the VAX 4000
series, but shipping on those will be pretty
expensive. 
5:04 a.m.
Witchy wrote:
If you have electrical heating (as opposed to gas/coal/oil/...), then
running
the VAX will not cost any more. Electricity generates the same amount of
heat per kilowatt, no matter how is used. It will not cost any more than
running
the electrical heating units for the same amount of power. Only problem
would be moving the heat to the proper location, and regulating it. ;-)
-----Original
Message-----
From: cctech-admin(a)classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On
Behalf Of Antonio Carlini
Sent: 19 January 2003 18:46
To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org
Subject: RE: Dear Santa, I would like a VAX....
You're not kidding - not so long back a local college I do work for decided
to toss their 4000-500 plus RRD42 and TLZ06; fortunately I was there at the
time with a suitably sized estate car (station wagon for our US readers) so
2 of us managed to lift it into the back. When I got home I had to
completely strip it down in situ just to lift the bits out on my own and get
it in the house. In my reseller days the 4000 series were delivered on a
pallet with extra ramps to allow you to wheel the machine down to ground
level and now I know why :)
Spent a happy couple of hours or so tonight getting my Alpha 3000-400 and
uVAX 3100-90 going again after a few months in storage, and I wish we could
afford the power to have 2 webservers going at the same time! Since we moved
into this house we've doubled our power requirements just for heating and
lighting; 3 machines going at the same time hasn't helped, so an extra VAX
sized load on things *definitely* won't help :)
Frankly, the 8800 is too big, but that is too
small...
Then I guess you need to aim for one of the VAX 4000
series, but shipping on those will be pretty
expensive.
cheers
21 Jan
21 Jan
4:14 p.m.
-----Original Message-----
From: cctech-admin(a)classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On
Behalf Of Kevin Handy
Sent: 20 January 2003 19:28
To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: Dear Santa, I would like a VAX....
If you have electrical heating (as opposed to gas/coal/oil/...), then
running
the VAX will not cost any more. Electricity generates the same amount of
heat per kilowatt, no matter how is used. It will not cost any more than
running
the electrical heating units for the same amount of power. Only problem
would be moving the heat to the proper location, and regulating it. ;-)
Heh; that would be great! Pity we're on gas heating over here :)
20 Jan
20 Jan
7:03 a.m.
On Mon, 20 Jan 2003, Witchy wrote:
Whatever happened to "shooting brake"?
- don
-----Original
Message-----
From: cctech-admin(a)classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On
Behalf Of Antonio Carlini
Sent: 19 January 2003 18:46
To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org
Subject: RE: Dear Santa, I would like a VAX....
You're not kidding - not so long back a local college I do work for decided
to toss their 4000-500 plus RRD42 and TLZ06; fortunately I was there at the
time with a suitably sized estate car (station wagon for our US readers) so Frankly, the 8800 is too big, but that is too
small...
Then I guess you need to aim for one of the VAX 4000
series, but shipping on those will be pretty
expensive. 2 of us managed to lift it into the back. When I got
home I had to
completely strip it down in situ just to lift the bits out on my own and get
it in the house. In my reseller days the 4000 series were delivered on a
pallet with extra ramps to allow you to wheel the machine down to ground
level and now I know why :)
Spent a happy couple of hours or so tonight getting my Alpha 3000-400 and
uVAX 3100-90 going again after a few months in storage, and I wish we could
afford the power to have 2 webservers going at the same time! Since we moved
into this house we've doubled our power requirements just for heating and
lighting; 3 machines going at the same time hasn't helped, so an extra VAX
sized load on things *definitely* won't help :)
cheers
--
adrian/witchy
www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum
www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans
21 Jan
21 Jan
8:57 a.m.
At 18:45 19/01/2003, you wrote:
It's up to ?100 now, and still 5 days to go...
Just out of interest, what sort of value would this machine have (if it
wasn't on eBay, that is)? Assume nothing more than hobbyist use, and no
realistic money and/or wifely restrictions.
--
Cheers, Ade.
Be where it's at, B-Racing!
http://b-racing.com
That's the
one - and blimey, it's jumped nearly
?21 since I looked (it was at ?5.19).
Given its speed, it's still a bargain.
9:26 a.m.
It's up to ?100 now, and still 5 days to go...
Just out of interest, what sort of value would this machine
have (if it
wasn't on eBay, that is)? Assume nothing more than hobbyist
use, and no
realistic money and/or wifely restrictions.
Well a reseller would probably want ?1K or so,
maybe more. You'd probably get it for ?50-?100
at an auction, and probably for a song at a
scrapyard. But you'd have to wait for one to
turn up.
It's about the fastest VAX you can reasonably
run at home (OK - the -96/98,-106/-108 and the
VS4000-9x machines'd give it a run for its money,
but not so's you'd notice).
Noone's going to notice one extra piddly little
VAX sitting there are they :-)
Antonio
--
---------------
Antonio Carlini arcarlini(a)iee.org
18 Jan
18 Jan
1:10 p.m.
Didn't see one at a fiver. Saw
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1484&item=…
94356
which is claimed to be a UV3100-95. Assuming it is, then it's
a darned fast VAX (in VAX terms) and really well worth having.
That's one nice VAX, I'm glad it's on the other side of the pond :^)
The DLT looks more like a TZ30 to me (still nice to
have) and
A good indication that it's a TZ30 is that it's a half-height drive. The
TZ30 is the only half-height drive that uses Compact-Tapes.
Zane
--
| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator |
| healyzh(a)aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast |
| | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, |
| PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. |
| http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ |
19 Jan
19 Jan
8:11 a.m.
-----Original Message-----
From: cctech-admin(a)classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On
Behalf Of Zane H. Healy
Sent: 19 January 2003 03:14
To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org
Subject: RE: Dear Santa, I would like a VAX....
That's one nice VAX, I'm glad it's on the other side of the pond :^)
It's definitely a TZ30 as that was the only DLT tape option for uVAXen. The
thing that's puzzling me is the fact they've shoehorned an RX33 in there - I
thought the 3100-10 was the only machine to have floppy capability......
I certainly never sold any and I don't remember it being an option for the
bigger machines. Pity it's front cover is missing too, but for 20-odd quid I
wouldn't complain :)
--
adrian/witchy
www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum
www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans
The DLT looks more like a TZ30 to me (still nice
to have) and
A good indication that it's a TZ30 is that it's a half-height drive. The
TZ30 is the only half-height drive that uses Compact-Tapes. 
8:21 p.m.
On 2003.01.19 12:30 Witchy wrote:
The thing that's puzzling me is the fact
they've shoehorned an RX33
in there - I thought the 3100-10 was the only machine to have floppy
capability......
I have a 2.88 MB SCSI floppy in my MV3100m95.
--
tsch??,
Jochen
Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/
21 Jan
21 Jan
4:07 p.m.
-----Original Message-----
From: cctech-admin(a)classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-admin@classiccmp.org]On
Behalf Of Jochen Kunz
Sent: 20 January 2003 10:15
To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: Dear Santa, I would like a VAX....
On 2003.01.19 12:30 Witchy wrote:
Live and learn eh :) I didn't know that was possible.
cheers
--
adrian/witchy
www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum
www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans
The thing that's puzzling me is the fact
they've shoehorned an RX33
in there - I thought the 3100-10 was the only machine to have floppy
capability......
I have a 2.88 MB SCSI floppy in my MV3100m95. 
20 Jan
20 Jan
4:50 a.m.
On Sun, 19 Jan 2003, Witchy wrote:
It's definitely a TZ30 as that was the only DLT tape option for uVAXen. The
thing that's puzzling me is the fact they've shoehorned an RX33 in there - I
thought the 3100-10 was the only machine to have floppy capability......
I certainly never sold any and I don't remember it being an option for the
bigger machines. Pity it's front cover is missing too, but for 20-odd quid I
wouldn't complain :)
That's not exactly right. I've seen everything between TK50Z's and DLT
TZ87's in MicroVAX III-series machines.
Peace... Sridhar
The DLT looks more like a TZ30 to me (still nice to
have) and
A good indication that it's a TZ30 is that it's a half-height drive. The
TZ30 is the only half-height drive that uses Compact-Tapes.
4:52 a.m.
-----Original Message-----
From: vance(a)neurotica.com [mailto:vance@neurotica.com]
Sent: 20 January 2003 06:20
To: Witchy
Cc: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org
Subject: RE: Dear Santa, I would like a VAX....
Sorry, I meant 3100 series uVAXen :)
--
adrian/witchy
www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the online computer museum
www.snakebiteandblack.co.uk - monthly gothic shenanigans
I certainly never sold any and I don't
remember it being an
option for the
bigger machines. Pity it's front cover is
missing too, but for
20-odd quid I
wouldn't complain :)
That's not exactly right. I've seen everything between TK50Z's and DLT
TZ87's in MicroVAX III-series machines. 
27 Mar
27 Mar
4:56 a.m.
Hiya
Just seen your post on classiccmp (I know, I'm a bit behind - only got 5K
unread messages on cctalk to get through!)
If you are still after a VAX, I know a chap who has several VAXstation
3100 model 38s for around 50 quid each? I know, they're not *real* VAXen,
but what can ya do, eh :)
Oh to have A) room for and B) an 11/750...
Whereabouts in the UK are you?
cheers,
greg
7941
days inactive
8009
days old
17 comments
10 participants
participants (10)
-
arcarlini＠iee.org -
avickers＠solutionengineers.com -
beermat＠bouncy-castle.demon.co.uk -
donm＠cts.com -
healyzh＠aracnet.com -
jim＠calico.litterbox.com -
jkunz＠unixag-kl.fh-kl.de -
kth＠srv.net -
vance＠neurotica.com -
witchy＠binarydinosaurs.co.uk