20 Oct
2015
20 Oct
'15
12:11 p.m.
Hello list,
i got hands on several VT100 and VT105 parts. It SEEMS (at least to me)
to be one complete terminal without a power supply and some additional
parts. I took pictures of everything, which can be seen here:
https://antares.krankikom.de/index.php/s/vcIZuHbpsn3lSoL
(sorry for the self-signed certificate)
I already found this interesting page:
https://github.com/bbenchoff/VT100Adapter, so i guess i have everything
to try to repair the VT100.
But i never tried something like that, and i fear to break something as
soon i connect anything to power.
How should i start? I especially don't know how to clean the boards,
check the eproms and i'm afraid that the CRT is broken, since it has a
sticky fluid on it.
Bye,
Lukas Kaminski
20 Oct
20 Oct
5:12 p.m.
I can't seem to get the link to work with the pictures, so I don't
know what the tube looks like, but sticky fluid is NOT an indication
of a problem with the tube. Some tubes used a bonded safety glass, and
that goo leaks out over time. But I've never seen a VT100 with such a
tube installed. The most common cause of goo on the tube is going to
be goo surrounding the 2nd anode connection (the suction cup). This is
the plasticizers leeching out of the anode wiring, and gooing up the
tube. The cable will be all sticky too. You can clean it off, I find
that brake cleaner will dissolve it nicely. Just clean the area around
the connection, don't clean the graphite coating off the main parts of
the back of the tube - scrub only the clear glass areas.
Without knowing what parts you have, I can't really tell you more than
that, but, in general, I find that VT100's tend to work fine. There's
nothing special I would do, just hook everything up and try it out.
You're not going to blow anything up, assuming you've got parts
connected properly.
-Ian
On Tue, Oct 20, 2015 at 12:11 PM, Lukas Kaminski
<lukas.kaminski at krankikom.de> wrote:
Hello list,
i got hands on several VT100 and VT105 parts. It SEEMS (at least to me)
to be one complete terminal without a power supply and some additional
parts. I took pictures of everything, which can be seen here:
https://antares.krankikom.de/index.php/s/vcIZuHbpsn3lSoL
(sorry for the self-signed certificate)
I already found this interesting page:
https://github.com/bbenchoff/VT100Adapter, so i guess i have everything
to try to repair the VT100.
But i never tried something like that, and i fear to break something as
soon i connect anything to power.
How should i start? I especially don't know how to clean the boards,
check the eproms and i'm afraid that the CRT is broken, since it has a
sticky fluid on it.
Bye,
Lukas Kaminski
5:18 p.m.
Congratulations! My own VT131 is on the repair line so I'll be watching
this thread with some interest.
Best,
Sean
On Tue, Oct 20, 2015 at 5:12 PM, Ian Primus <ian.primus.ccmp at gmail.com>
wrote:
I can't seem to get the link to work with the
pictures, so I don't
know what the tube looks like, but sticky fluid is NOT an indication
of a problem with the tube. Some tubes used a bonded safety glass, and
that goo leaks out over time. But I've never seen a VT100 with such a
tube installed. The most common cause of goo on the tube is going to
be goo surrounding the 2nd anode connection (the suction cup). This is
the plasticizers leeching out of the anode wiring, and gooing up the
tube. The cable will be all sticky too. You can clean it off, I find
that brake cleaner will dissolve it nicely. Just clean the area around
the connection, don't clean the graphite coating off the main parts of
the back of the tube - scrub only the clear glass areas.
Without knowing what parts you have, I can't really tell you more than
that, but, in general, I find that VT100's tend to work fine. There's
nothing special I would do, just hook everything up and try it out.
You're not going to blow anything up, assuming you've got parts
connected properly.
-Ian
On Tue, Oct 20, 2015 at 12:11 PM, Lukas Kaminski
<lukas.kaminski at krankikom.de> wrote:
Hello list,
i got hands on several VT100 and VT105 parts. It SEEMS (at least to me)
to be one complete terminal without a power supply and some additional
parts. I took pictures of everything, which can be seen here:
https://antares.krankikom.de/index.php/s/vcIZuHbpsn3lSoL
(sorry for the self-signed certificate)
I already found this interesting page:
https://github.com/bbenchoff/VT100Adapter, so i guess i have everything
to try to repair the VT100.
But i never tried something like that, and i fear to break something as
soon i connect anything to power.
How should i start? I especially don't know how to clean the boards,
check the eproms and i'm afraid that the CRT is broken, since it has a
sticky fluid on it.
Bye,
Lukas Kaminski
6:29 p.m.
On 20 October 2015 at 22:12 Ian Primus
<ian.primus.ccmp at gmail.com> wrote:
I can't seem to get the link to work with the pictures, so I don't
know what the tube looks like, but sticky fluid is NOT an indication
of a problem with the tube. Some tubes used a bonded safety glass, and
that goo leaks out over time. But I've never seen a VT100 with such a
tube installed. The most common cause of goo on the tube is going to
be goo surrounding the 2nd anode connection (the suction cup). This is
the plasticizers leeching out of the anode wiring, and gooing up the
tube. The cable will be all sticky too. You can clean it off, I find
that brake cleaner will dissolve it nicely. Just clean the area around
the connection, don't clean the graphite coating off the main parts of
the back of the tube - scrub only the clear glass areas.
Without knowing what parts you have, I can't really tell you more than
that, but, in general, I find that VT100's tend to work fine. There's
nothing special I would do, just hook everything up and try it out.
You're not going to blow anything up, assuming you've got parts
connected properly.
-Ian
On Tue, Oct 20, 2015 at 12:11 PM, Lukas Kaminski
<lukas.kaminski at krankikom.de> wrote:
> Hello list,
>
> i got hands on several VT100 and VT105 parts. It SEEMS (at least to me)
> to be one complete terminal without a power supply and some additional
> parts. I took pictures of everything, which can be seen here:
> https://antares.krankikom.de/index.php/s/vcIZuHbpsn3lSoL
> (sorry for the self-signed certificate)
>
> I already found this interesting page:
> https://github.com/bbenchoff/VT100Adapter, so i guess i have everything
> to try to repair the VT100.
>
> But i never tried something like that, and i fear to break something as
> soon i connect anything to power.
>
> How should i start? I especially don't know how to clean the boards,
> check the eproms and i'm afraid that the CRT is broken, since it has a
> sticky fluid on it.
>
> Bye,
>
> Lukas Kaminski
I couldn't get the link to work either, I could only get parts of the images. I
too saw leakage from around the anode cap. I have been advised to get all that
cleaned up (isopropyl will do I think), and then, iirc, re-grease the anode cap,
although I am not at home to check and I can't remember what kind of grease you
need to use for that.
I would be careful about just powering it on in case there is something bad
somewhere that blows a component that can't be replaced (I believe flyback
transformers fall into that category). So I would check all the PSU and video
control board electrolytic capacitors in particular, and probably re-form them.
I would also use a dummy load to test the PSU to make sure it is producing the
right voltages without too much ripple. Once all that checks out, I would power
it up one part at a time, leaving the video control board to last but one, and
then the tube (and flyback) to last. At least, this is what I did, and suffered
no ill effects, although I did have to re-cap the video control board to stop a
screen wobble.
My VT101 and VT102 were one of my rare successes, with a lot of help from
another list member though!
Regards
Rob
21 Oct
21 Oct
6:19 a.m.
VT 100's have one weak point. The monitor is a bought in part from Ball
Bros.
The Ball supplied drive board burns up a diode and cap. It will be
obvious on inspection of the board.
I have never been able to get a circuit diagram or I'd do a replacement
board.
Needless to say the DEC parts are mde of sterner stuff
Rod
On 20/10/2015 22:12, Ian Primus wrote:
I can't seem to get the link to work with the
pictures, so I don't
know what the tube looks like, but sticky fluid is NOT an indication
of a problem with the tube. Some tubes used a bonded safety glass, and
that goo leaks out over time. But I've never seen a VT100 with such a
tube installed. The most common cause of goo on the tube is going to
be goo surrounding the 2nd anode connection (the suction cup). This is
the plasticizers leeching out of the anode wiring, and gooing up the
tube. The cable will be all sticky too. You can clean it off, I find
that brake cleaner will dissolve it nicely. Just clean the area around
the connection, don't clean the graphite coating off the main parts of
the back of the tube - scrub only the clear glass areas.
Without knowing what parts you have, I can't really tell you more than
that, but, in general, I find that VT100's tend to work fine. There's
nothing special I would do, just hook everything up and try it out.
You're not going to blow anything up, assuming you've got parts
connected properly.
-Ian
On Tue, Oct 20, 2015 at 12:11 PM, Lukas Kaminski
<lukas.kaminski at krankikom.de> wrote:
> Hello list,
>
> i got hands on several VT100 and VT105 parts. It SEEMS (at least to me)
> to be one complete terminal without a power supply and some additional
> parts. I took pictures of everything, which can be seen here:
> https://antares.krankikom.de/index.php/s/vcIZuHbpsn3lSoL
> (sorry for the self-signed certificate)
>
> I already found this interesting page:
> https://github.com/bbenchoff/VT100Adapter, so i guess i have everything
> to try to repair the VT100.
>
> But i never tried something like that, and i fear to break something as
> soon i connect anything to power.
>
> How should i start? I especially don't know how to clean the boards,
> check the eproms and i'm afraid that the CRT is broken, since it has a
> sticky fluid on it.
>
> Bye,
>
> Lukas Kaminski
7:51 a.m.
On Wed, Oct 21, 2015 at 6:19 AM, Rod Smallwood <
rodsmallwood52 at btinternet.com> wrote:
VT 100's have one weak point. The monitor is a
bought in part from Ball
Bros.
The Ball supplied drive board burns up a diode and cap. It will be
obvious on inspection of the board.
I have never been able to get a circuit diagram or I'd do a replacement
board.
Needless to say the DEC parts are mde of sterner stuff
Rod
Is that true of the vt102 as well?
Bill
8:10 a.m.
I had forgotten about that. There is a useful page on this somewhere, but I am away from
home and can't get the link right now. Will try to send out the link later.
Regards
Rob
-----Original Message-----
From: "william degnan" <billdegnan at gmail.com>
Sent: ?21/?10/?2015 12:51
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at
classiccmp.org>
Subject: Re: VT100 and/or VT105 rescued from scrap
On Wed, Oct 21, 2015 at 6:19 AM, Rod Smallwood <
rodsmallwood52 at btinternet.com> wrote:
VT 100's have one weak point. The monitor is a
bought in part from Ball
Bros.
The Ball supplied drive board burns up a diode and cap. It will be
obvious on inspection of the board.
I have never been able to get a circuit diagram or I'd do a replacement
board.
Needless to say the DEC parts are mde of sterner stuff
Rod
Is that true of the vt102 as well?
Bill
10:52 a.m.
Yes I think it is. Board is easy to check. It looks a totally different
type of board ie cheap and nasty
Rod
On 10/21/2015 11:51 AM, william degnan wrote:
On Wed, Oct 21, 2015 at 6:19 AM, Rod Smallwood <
rodsmallwood52 at btinternet.com> wrote:
VT 100's have one weak point. The monitor is
a bought in part from Ball
Bros.
The Ball supplied drive board burns up a diode and cap. It will be
obvious on inspection of the board.
I have never been able to get a circuit diagram or I'd do a replacement
board.
Needless to say the DEC parts are mde of sterner stuff
Rod
Is that true of the vt102 as well?
Bill 
3:29 p.m.
[VT100, etc, monitor PCB]
Is that true of the vt102 as well?
I don't think I've ever worked on a VT102, but the same video monitor boards turn
up
in the VT100, VT105 and VT101 (at least). There are at least 3 different types, at least
2 made by Ball Brothers. From what I remember the 2 Ball Brothers ones I've seen are
very similar, the main difference being the video amplifier.
What is different between the terminals is the PSU. The VT100 and VT105 use an SMPSU
that is actually quite friendly to work on (there is a separate linear supply to start it
up,
the pscillator and control circuits are on the output side of the isolation barrier with
transformer coupling to the base of the chopper. The VT101 has a big mains transformer
and a linear regualtor board.
-tony
3:52 p.m.
On Wed, Oct 21, 2015 at 3:29 PM, tony duell <ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk> wrote:
[VT100, etc, monitor PCB]
VT101 and VT102 are the same, the 01 and 02 pertain to options that come
with the terminal. I would *assume* they have the same PSU.
--
Bill
Is that true of the vt102 as well?
I don't think I've ever worked on a VT102, but the same video monitor
boards turn up
in the VT100, VT105 and VT101 (at least). There are at least 3 different
types, at least
2 made by Ball Brothers. From what I remember the 2 Ball Brothers ones
I've seen are
very similar, the main difference being the video amplifier.
What is different between the terminals is the PSU. The VT100 and VT105
use an SMPSU
that is actually quite friendly to work on (there is a separate linear
supply to start it up,
the pscillator and control circuits are on the output side of the
isolation barrier with
transformer coupling to the base of the chopper. The VT101 has a big mains
transformer
and a linear regualtor board.
-tony
3:55 p.m.
On 21 October 2015 at 20:52 william degnan
<billdegnan at gmail.com> wrote:
On Wed, Oct 21, 2015 at 3:29 PM, tony duell <ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk> wrote:
I have a 101 and a 102 and can confirm that the PSUs in both of mine are
identical.
Regards
rob
[VT100, etc, monitor PCB]
VT101 and VT102 are the same, the 01 and 02 pertain to options that come
with the terminal. I would *assume* they have the same PSU.
--
Bill Is that true of the vt102 as well?
I don't think I've ever worked on a VT102, but the same video monitor
boards turn up
in the VT100, VT105 and VT101 (at least). There are at least 3 different
types, at least
2 made by Ball Brothers. From what I remember the 2 Ball Brothers ones
I've seen are
very similar, the main difference being the video amplifier.
What is different between the terminals is the PSU. The VT100 and VT105
use an SMPSU
that is actually quite friendly to work on (there is a separate linear
supply to start it up,
the pscillator and control circuits are on the output side of the
isolation barrier with
transformer coupling to the base of the chopper. The VT101 has a big mains
transformer
and a linear regualtor board.
-tony
5:24 p.m.
The VT101,02,31, and 32 are the same, as are the VT100, 105, and 125.
The VT103 is different
Paul
On Wed, Oct 21, 2015 at 2:55 PM, Jarratt RMA <robert.jarratt at ntlworld.com>
wrote:
I have a 101 and a 102 and can confirm that the PSUs in both of mine are
identical.
Regards
rob
On 21 October 2015 at 20:52 william degnan
<billdegnan at gmail.com> wrote:
On Wed, Oct 21, 2015 at 3:29 PM, tony duell <ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk>
wrote:
> [VT100, etc, monitor PCB]
>
> > Is that true of the vt102 as well?
>
> I don't think I've ever worked on a VT102, but the same video monitor
> boards turn up
> in the VT100, VT105 and VT101 (at least). There are at least 3
different
> types, at least
> 2 made by Ball Brothers. From what I remember the 2 Ball Brothers ones
> I've seen are
> very similar, the main difference being the video amplifier.
>
> What is different between the terminals is the PSU. The VT100 and VT105
> use an SMPSU
> that is actually quite friendly to work on (there is a separate linear
> supply to start it up,
> the pscillator and control circuits are on the output side of the
> isolation barrier with
> transformer coupling to the base of the chopper. The VT101 has a big
mains
transformer
and a linear regualtor board.
-tony
VT101 and VT102 are the same, the 01 and 02 pertain to options that come
with the terminal. I would *assume* they have the same PSU.
--
Bill 
7:03 a.m.
On Oct 22, 2015 4:51 AM, "Christian Corti" <cc at
informatik.uni-stuttgart.de>
wrote:
On Wed, 21 Oct 2015, Paul Anderson wrote:
Yes. For example 80/132 column is an option you can add. IFRC there is a
doc (user guide?) that has details of vt10x options and what options
together made up the vt100 vs 102.
The VT101,02,31, and 32 are the same, as are the VT100, 105, and 125.
If you say they are the same, can you turn a VT101 into a VT102?
Christian 
8:26 a.m.
On 2015-10-22 13:03, william degnan wrote:
On Oct 22, 2015 4:51 AM, "Christian Corti"
<cc at informatik.uni-stuttgart.de>
wrote:
Note that while in theory the AVO was an added option, the VT102 did not
have it (or the printer port) as separate parts that were added to a
basic VT100. The VT102 had a different board with all those options
already on the motherboard, and no additional options could be installed.
So, you cannot take the AVO options out of a VT102 and add it to a VT100
(for example).
Also, for example, the keyboard on a VT100 differs from a VT102.
You could use a VT100 keyboard on a VT102, and vice versa, but the LEDs
on the keyboard of a VT102 are used for different things than on a VT100.
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
On Wed, 21 Oct 2015, Paul Anderson wrote:
Yes. For example 80/132 column is an option you can add. IFRC there is a
doc (user guide?) that has details of vt10x options and what options
together made up the vt100 vs 102.
The VT101,02,31, and 32 are the same, as are the VT100, 105, and 125.
If you say they are the same, can you turn a VT101 into a VT102?
Christian
9:05 a.m.
Note that while in theory the AVO was an added
option, the VT102 did not
have it (or the printer port) as separate parts that were
added to a basic
VT100. The VT102 had a different board with all those options already on
the motherboard, and no additional options could be installed.
So, you cannot take the AVO options out of a VT102 and add it to a VT100
(for example).
Also, for example, the keyboard on a VT100 differs from a VT102.
You could use a VT100 keyboard on a VT102, and vice versa, but the LEDs on
the keyboard of a VT102 are used for different things than on a VT100.
Johnny
9:15 a.m.
On 2015-10-22 15:05, william degnan wrote:
Thanks for the clarification. I you're saying for the 101 and 102 you
start with a core terminal at the factory and they add the options or it's
a field upgrade kind of thing because parts not swapped out easily or
added. I confirm about the ROMs too, I noticed that the SetUp menus differ
depending on what options are installed.
No.
The VT100 is field upgradeable to a VT101 (I think) or a VT102 (I know).
However, the VT102 is not the same as a VT100 with the added AVO and
printer. Functionally they are the same, but inside they will look
different.
The VT102 have a motherboard with the AVO and printer option integrated
into the motherboard itself. A VT100 with the options added will have a
daughterboard and components added to it's motherboard.
So, the VT102 do not start out as a VT100 and then some stuff added.
There were (if I remember right) some other options for the VT100 as
well. You cannot add those other options to a VT102 either. The VT102 is
pretty much a fixed and finished product as it is. The VT100 on the
other hand could be expanded in various ways.
The VT102 was basically a cost reduced solution with a fixed set of
options, which were the ones most commonly asked for and used.
And, as I mentioned, they redesignated some keyboard LEDs on the VT102
for specific information. Thus, on a VT100 you have four user
programmable LEDs on the keyboard, but on the VT102 you only have one.
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
Note that while in theory the AVO was an added
option, the VT102 did not
have it (or the printer port) as separate parts that were
added to a basic
VT100. The VT102 had a different board with all those options already on
the motherboard, and no additional options could be installed.
So, you cannot take the AVO options out of a VT102 and add it to a VT100
(for example).
Also, for example, the keyboard on a VT100 differs from a VT102.
You could use a VT100 keyboard on a VT102, and vice versa, but the LEDs on
the keyboard of a VT102 are used for different things than on a VT100.
Johnny
9:32 a.m.
Let me clarify... I agree the 100 is a separate machine from the "core
101/102" terminal, even with the same options.
On my vt100 the ROM is different than my vt102, but my 100 has the 132 char
graphics upgrade so it's functionally like the 102 in that way. Looks
differently inside.
On Thu, Oct 22, 2015 at 9:15 AM, Johnny Billquist <bqt at update.uu.se> wrote:
On 2015-10-22 15:05, william degnan wrote:
No.
The VT100 is field upgradeable to a VT101 (I think) or a VT102 (I know).
However, the VT102 is not the same as a VT100 with the added AVO and
printer. Functionally they are the same, but inside they will look
different.
The VT102 have a motherboard with the AVO and printer option integrated
into the motherboard itself. A VT100 with the options added will have a
daughterboard and components added to it's motherboard.
So, the VT102 do not start out as a VT100 and then some stuff added.
There were (if I remember right) some other options for the VT100 as well.
You cannot add those other options to a VT102 either. The VT102 is pretty
much a fixed and finished product as it is. The VT100 on the other hand
could be expanded in various ways.
The VT102 was basically a cost reduced solution with a fixed set of
options, which were the ones most commonly asked for and used.
And, as I mentioned, they redesignated some keyboard LEDs on the VT102 for
specific information. Thus, on a VT100 you have four user programmable LEDs
on the keyboard, but on the VT102 you only have one.
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
--
Bill
Note that while in theory the AVO was an added option, the VT102 did not
have it (or the printer port) as separate
parts that were added to a
basic
VT100. The VT102 had a different board with all those options already on
the motherboard, and no additional options could be installed.
So, you cannot take the AVO options out of a VT102 and add it to a VT100
(for example).
Also, for example, the keyboard on a VT100 differs from a VT102.
You could use a VT100 keyboard on a VT102, and vice versa, but the LEDs
on
the keyboard of a VT102 are used for different things than on a VT100.
Johnny
Thanks for the clarification. I you're saying for the 101 and 102 you
start with a core terminal at the factory and they add the options or it's
a field upgrade kind of thing because parts not swapped out easily or
added. I confirm about the ROMs too, I noticed that the SetUp menus
differ
depending on what options are installed.
10:27 a.m.
On 2015-10-22 15:32, william degnan wrote:
Let me clarify... I agree the 100 is a separate
machine from the "core
101/102" terminal, even with the same options.
On my vt100 the ROM is different than my vt102, but my 100 has the 132 char
graphics upgrade so it's functionally like the 102 in that way. Looks
differently inside.
Having 132 columns does not necessarily mean anything.
A standard VT100 have 132 columns. However, it only have 12 lines when
in 132 column mode. It also have only one attribute on characters, which
is either underline or reverse. And that depends on what style of cursor
you have.
The AVO options adds 132 columns with 24 lines, as well as all four
attributes.
Johnny
On Thu, Oct 22, 2015 at 9:15 AM, Johnny Billquist <bqt at update.uu.se> wrote:
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
On 2015-10-22 15:05, william degnan wrote:
No.
The VT100 is field upgradeable to a VT101 (I think) or a VT102 (I know).
However, the VT102 is not the same as a VT100 with the added AVO and
printer. Functionally they are the same, but inside they will look
different.
The VT102 have a motherboard with the AVO and printer option integrated
into the motherboard itself. A VT100 with the options added will have a
daughterboard and components added to it's motherboard.
So, the VT102 do not start out as a VT100 and then some stuff added.
There were (if I remember right) some other options for the VT100 as well.
You cannot add those other options to a VT102 either. The VT102 is pretty
much a fixed and finished product as it is. The VT100 on the other hand
could be expanded in various ways.
The VT102 was basically a cost reduced solution with a fixed set of
options, which were the ones most commonly asked for and used.
And, as I mentioned, they redesignated some keyboard LEDs on the VT102 for
specific information. Thus, on a VT100 you have four user programmable LEDs
on the keyboard, but on the VT102 you only have one.
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
Note that while in theory the AVO was an added option, the VT102 did not
>
have it (or the printer port) as separate parts that were added to a
basic
VT100. The VT102 had a different board with all those options already on
the motherboard, and no additional options could be installed.
So, you cannot take the AVO options out of a VT102 and add it to a VT100
(for example).
Also, for example, the keyboard on a VT100 differs from a VT102.
You could use a VT100 keyboard on a VT102, and vice versa, but the LEDs
on
the keyboard of a VT102 are used for different things than on a VT100.
Johnny
Thanks for the clarification. I you're saying for the 101 and 102 you
start with a core terminal at the factory and they add the options or it's
a field upgrade kind of thing because parts not swapped out easily or
added. I confirm about the ROMs too, I noticed that the SetUp menus
differ
depending on what options are installed.
10:32 a.m.
On Oct 22, 2015, at 9:15 AM, Johnny Billquist <bqt
at Update.UU.SE> wrote:
...
The VT100 is field upgradeable to a VT101 (I think) or a VT102 (I know). However, the
VT102 is not the same as a VT100 with the added AVO and printer. Functionally they are the
same, but inside they will look different.
That doesn't sound right.
The way I remember it is that the VT100 comes in several configurations (for example AVO
or not) and you can field modify it from one to another.
On the other hand, the VT101 and VT102 are fixed configs (that is, not intended to be
field upgradable), roughly matching the base and AVO versions of the VT100 in
functionality.
It may be that you could, with enough knowledge, turn a VT101 into a VT102 or vice versa,
but that wasn't a supported operation from what I remember.
paul
10:36 a.m.
On 2015-10-22 16:32, Paul Koning wrote:
Paul, I think you just said the same thing I did. Did you misunderstand
me, or did I do a typo somewhere?
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
On Oct 22, 2015, at 9:15 AM, Johnny Billquist
<bqt at Update.UU.SE> wrote:
...
The VT100 is field upgradeable to a VT101 (I think) or a VT102 (I know). However, the
VT102 is not the same as a VT100 with the added AVO and printer. Functionally they are the
same, but inside they will look different.
That doesn't sound right.
The way I remember it is that the VT100 comes in several configurations (for example AVO
or not) and you can field modify it from one to another.
On the other hand, the VT101 and VT102 are fixed configs (that is, not intended to be
field upgradable), roughly matching the base and AVO versions of the VT100 in
functionality.
It may be that you could, with enough knowledge, turn a VT101 into a VT102 or vice versa,
but that wasn't a supported operation from what I remember.
11:07 a.m.
On Oct 22, 2015, at 10:36 AM, Johnny Billquist <bqt
at Update.UU.SE> wrote:
On 2015-10-22 16:32, Paul Koning wrote:
Paul, I think you just said the same thing I did. Did you misunderstand me, or did I do a
typo somewhere?
No, you said that the VT100 is field upgradeable to the VT101 and/or VT102. And I said
that there are several VT100 variants, and that a VT100-xx is field upgradeable to a
VT100-yy. But no VT101 or VT102 is field upgradeable to anything else, nor is a VT100
field upgradeable to a VT101 or VT102.
To elaborate: the VT101 and VT102 are a generation after the VT100, each fixed config.
I'm guessing that the fixed config thing was done, as well as the other changes in the
details, to reduce cost. Cost reducing a product while leaving its features largely
untouched was a standard thing to do at DEC (and for that matter is a standard thing to do
at any manufacturing organization).
paul
On Oct 22, 2015, at 9:15 AM, Johnny Billquist
<bqt at Update.UU.SE> wrote:
...
The VT100 is field upgradeable to a VT101 (I think) or a VT102 (I know). However, the
VT102 is not the same as a VT100 with the added AVO and printer. Functionally they are the
same, but inside they will look different.
That doesn't sound right.
The way I remember it is that the VT100 comes in several configurations (for example AVO
or not) and you can field modify it from one to another.
On the other hand, the VT101 and VT102 are fixed configs (that is, not intended to be
field upgradable), roughly matching the base and AVO versions of the VT100 in
functionality.
It may be that you could, with enough knowledge, turn a VT101 into a VT102 or vice versa,
but that wasn't a supported operation from what I remember.
11:12 a.m.
On 2015-10-22 17:07, Paul Koning wrote:
What I said was that the VT100 is field upgradeable to a VT102, but that
this would be a functional equivalent to a VT102. They will look very
different inside. I said that the VT102 is not the same as a VT100 with
the added AVO and printer port.
Read the full paragraph.
On Oct 22, 2015, at 10:36 AM, Johnny Billquist
<bqt at Update.UU.SE> wrote:
On 2015-10-22 16:32, Paul Koning wrote:
Paul, I think you just said the same thing I did. Did you misunderstand me, or did I do a
typo somewhere?
No, you said that the VT100 is field upgradeable to the VT101 and/or VT102. And I said
that there are several VT100 variants, and that a VT100-xx is field upgradeable to a
VT100-yy. But no VT101 or VT102 is field upgradeable to anything else, nor is a VT100
field upgradeable to a VT101 or VT102. On Oct 22, 2015, at 9:15 AM, Johnny Billquist
<bqt at Update.UU.SE> wrote:
...
The VT100 is field upgradeable to a VT101 (I think) or a VT102 (I know). However, the
VT102 is not the same as a VT100 with the added AVO and printer. Functionally they are the
same, but inside they will look different.
That doesn't sound right.
The way I remember it is that the VT100 comes in several configurations (for example AVO
or not) and you can field modify it from one to another.
On the other hand, the VT101 and VT102 are fixed configs (that is, not intended to be
field upgradable), roughly matching the base and AVO versions of the VT100 in
functionality.
It may be that you could, with enough knowledge, turn a VT101 into a VT102 or vice versa,
but that wasn't a supported operation from what I remember. To elaborate: the VT101 and VT102 are a generation
after the VT100, each fixed config. I'm guessing that the fixed config thing was
done, as well as the other changes in the details, to reduce cost. Cost reducing a
product while leaving its features largely untouched was a standard thing to do at DEC
(and for that matter is a standard thing to do at any manufacturing organization).
Yes. And I said that as well. :-)
Johnny
--
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
10:48 a.m.
The way I remember it is that the VT100 comes in
several configurations (for example AVO or
not) and you can field modify it from one to another.
On the other hand, the VT101 and VT102 are fixed configs (that is, not intended to be
field
upgradable), roughly matching the base and AVO versions of the VT100 in functionality.
That is basically how I remember it too. The VT100 was terminal that could be
field-upgraded, the
AVO [1] added, printer port added, graph board (VT105) added, and so on.
The VT101 is (officially) a fixed-configuration terminal, similar in features to a
'base' VT100
The VT102 is a fixed-configuration terminal similar in featurers to a VT100 with AVO and
printer port (?)
Internally the chassis metalwork and PSU are very different between the VT100 and the
VT101/VT102
The logic boards are different too, but from what I remember the circuit ideas are much
the same, the
same 2 custom chips are used in the video circuit of all these terminals. Am I remembering
correctly,
the VT100 uses an 8080 processor, the VT101 (and VT102 I guess) has an 8085?
[1] That acronym is a bit strange for me. Over here, AVO (standing for Amps, Volts, Ohms)
is
a famous brand of multimeter (analogue and digital) and also other test gear like signal
generators and valve testers. It is one of those trademarks like 'Hoover; that has
almost
become generic, people over here will ask for an 'Avo' meaning a multimeter.
-tony
1:48 p.m.
You can turn a 101 into a 102 by simply replacing the logic board. The
101, 102, 131, and 132 are all interchangeable. The only option they will
support is the 20 ma option.
The basic keyboards are basically the same, but the caps and functions may
vary with unit and software.
On Thu, Oct 22, 2015 at 6:03 AM, william degnan <billdegnan at gmail.com>
wrote:
On Oct 22, 2015 4:51 AM, "Christian Corti"
<cc at informatik.uni-stuttgart.de
wrote:
> On Wed, 21 Oct 2015, Paul Anderson
wrote:
>>
>> The VT101,02,31, and 32 are the same, as are the VT100, 105, and 125.
> If you say they are the same, can you turn a VT101 into a VT102?
> Christian
Yes. For example 80/132 column is an option you can add. IFRC there is a
doc (user guide?) that has details of vt10x options and what options
together made up the vt100 vs 102.
7:35 a.m.
The VT101,02,31, and 32 are the same, as are the
VT100, 105, and 125.
If you say they are the same, can you turn a VT101 into a VT102?
8:06 a.m.
On Thu, Oct 22, 2015 at 7:35 AM, tony duell <ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk> wrote:
I don't think there was an official way to do it (from what I remember the
VT101 was
sold as a 'closed' terminal (maybe replace the logic board), but the VT101
logic board
has a lot of spare IC positions, etc, which I guess are used in the VT102.
I've not seen
printsets for either, but if you could find them you could probably work
out what
was needed. My guess, too, is that the ROMs have to be changed, meaning
you would
need to copy a set from a VT102.
-tony
I often post to this forum with my VT102 via Raspberry Pi.
--
Bill
The VT101,02,31, and 32 are the same, as are the
VT100, 105, and 125.
If you say they are the same, can you turn a VT101 into a VT102? 
21 Oct
21 Oct
2:48 p.m.
On 2015-Oct-21, at 3:19 AM, Rod Smallwood wrote:
VT 100's have one weak point. The monitor is a
bought in part from Ball Bros.
The Ball supplied drive board burns up a diode and cap. It will be obvious on inspection
of the board.
I have never been able to get a circuit diagram or I'd do a replacement board.
Needless to say the DEC parts are mde of sterner stuff
The VT100 FMPS from bitsaver's:
http://www.mirrorservice.org/sites/www.bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/terminal/vt100…
has schematics for two different monitor boards (pages PDF.43 & PDF.58), the first
indicated as being from Ball Bros.
Does that cover it?
Dates on the Ball Bros version look like 78, while the other looks like 79.
(Anecdotally: didn't have any problems with the power supply or monitor on the VT278
when it was powered up after many years.)
20 Oct
20 Oct
9:56 p.m.
I have most of the VT100 family parts, and can help somewhat in identifying
part numbers.
If you need any, feel free to contact me off list.
Paul
On Tue, Oct 20, 2015 at 11:11 AM, Lukas Kaminski <
lukas.kaminski at krankikom.de> wrote:
Hello list,
i got hands on several VT100 and VT105 parts. It SEEMS (at least to me)
to be one complete terminal without a power supply and some additional
parts. I took pictures of everything, which can be seen here:
https://antares.krankikom.de/index.php/s/vcIZuHbpsn3lSoL
(sorry for the self-signed certificate)
I already found this interesting page:
https://github.com/bbenchoff/VT100Adapter, so i guess i have everything
to try to repair the VT100.
But i never tried something like that, and i fear to break something as
soon i connect anything to power.
How should i start? I especially don't know how to clean the boards,
check the eproms and i'm afraid that the CRT is broken, since it has a
sticky fluid on it.
Bye,
Lukas Kaminski
21 Oct
21 Oct
3:43 a.m.
I got two VT100 that I'd need to repair. I'll we watching this thread too.
I'm libing in Spain, by the way.
Kind Regards
Sergio
2015-10-21 3:56 GMT+02:00 Paul Anderson <useddec at gmail.com>:
I have most of the VT100 family parts, and can help
somewhat in identifying
part numbers.
If you need any, feel free to contact me off list.
Paul
On Tue, Oct 20, 2015 at 11:11 AM, Lukas Kaminski <
lukas.kaminski at krankikom.de> wrote:
Hello list,
i got hands on several VT100 and VT105 parts. It SEEMS (at least to me)
to be one complete terminal without a power supply and some additional
parts. I took pictures of everything, which can be seen here:
https://antares.krankikom.de/index.php/s/vcIZuHbpsn3lSoL
(sorry for the self-signed certificate)
I already found this interesting page:
https://github.com/bbenchoff/VT100Adapter, so i guess i have everything
to try to repair the VT100.
But i never tried something like that, and i fear to break something as
soon i connect anything to power.
How should i start? I especially don't know how to clean the boards,
check the eproms and i'm afraid that the CRT is broken, since it has a
sticky fluid on it.
Bye,
Lukas Kaminski
5:45 a.m.
On 10/21/2015 09:43, SPC wrote:
I got two VT100 that I'd need to repair. I'll
we watching this thread too.
I'm libing in Spain, by the way.
Kind Regards
Sergio
2015-10-21 3:56 GMT+02:00 Paul Anderson <useddec at gmail.com>:
> I have most of the VT100 family parts, and can help somewhat in identifying
> part numbers.
>
> If you need any, feel free to contact me off list.
>
> Paul
>
> On Tue, Oct 20, 2015 at 11:11 AM, Lukas Kaminski <
> lukas.kaminski at krankikom.de> wrote:
>
>> Hello list,
>>
>> i got hands on several VT100 and VT105 parts. It SEEMS (at least to me)
>> to be one complete terminal without a power supply and some additional
>> parts. I took pictures of everything, which can be seen here:
>> https://antares.krankikom.de/index.php/s/vcIZuHbpsn3lSoL
>> (sorry for the self-signed certificate)
>>
>> I already found this interesting page:
>> https://github.com/bbenchoff/VT100Adapter, so i guess i have everything
>> to try to repair the VT100.
>>
>> But i never tried something like that, and i fear to break something as
>> soon i connect anything to power.
>>
>> How should i start? I especially don't know how to clean the boards,
>> check the eproms and i'm afraid that the CRT is broken, since it has a
>> sticky fluid on it.
>>
>> Bye,
>>
>> Lukas Kaminski
>>
>
Thanks for all comments so far. I've reuploaded the pics to dropbox:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/p2i9p7wozrio0je/AACRXiWfm0BloWTzfWbZteHxa
i bought a little bit isopropyl, which i plan to use to cleanup the
sticky fluid on the CRT and some other dirt on the boards. This weekend
i'll plan to build the powersupply adapter. I'll update you all when i'm
finished.
Since the terminal is in parts, i'll probably need some help for the
connections. I'm not sure if some cables are missing... (but that
shouldn't be a big problem)
Lukas
3202
days inactive
3204
days old
30 comments
13 participants
participants (13)
-
ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
billdegnan＠gmail.com -
bqt＠update.uu.se -
cc＠informatik.uni-stuttgart.de -
hilpert＠cs.ubc.ca -
ian.primus.ccmp＠gmail.com -
lukas.kaminski＠krankikom.de -
paulkoning＠comcast.net -
robert.jarratt＠ntlworld.com -
rodsmallwood52＠btinternet.com -
scaron＠umich.edu -
spedraja＠ono.com -
useddec＠gmail.com