25 May
2009
25 May
'09
4:18 a.m.
After a long wait, and paying unexpectedly high fees to the freight
clearance company I finally have my hands on my 029 keypunch. To my
surprise it has an extra wide punching station which apparently is an
extra read head which allows it to be fed with ready-punched cards and
the text to be printed at the top of the card. An interesting bonus.
It uses the same wire relays which have been discussed here recently,
and fortunately I have a 303 ammunition box full of spares including
many of these from a verifier I broke up some years ago which I kept
for my 836 punch.
The rating plate shows .4kVA which is more than my Flexowriter
transformer can handle so I have ordered a modern yellow industrial
110v socket so I can try it on a 3kVA transformer I have for an angle
grinder. I have searched though eBay for normal US wall sockets and to
my surprise cannot find them. I've tried all sorts of search terms but
obviously have not hit the right combination, unless there is some law
which prohibits them being sold retail or something like that.
Probably me being stupid.
Looking through the parts list there is something I'd like the list's
opinion on. The diagram shows a transformer but the list says
"REGULATOR ASM, FERRORESONANT-60CPS 120VA" and a similar option for
50Hz which of course I don't have. What are these for? Might they work
at the wrong frequency? Will they be damaged or just not work? This is
part of a 48v DC supply. Should I build a simple 48V supply myself or
even see what I can find in my verifier spares?
25 May
25 May
8:59 a.m.
On May 25, 2009, at 7:18 AM, Roger Holmes wrote:
--
Dave McGuire
Port Charlotte, FL
After a long wait, and paying unexpectedly high fees
to the freight
clearance company I finally have my hands on my 029 keypunch. To my
surprise it has an extra wide punching station which apparently is
an extra read head which allows it to be fed with ready-punched
cards and the text to be printed at the top of the card. An
interesting bonus. It uses the same wire relays which have been
discussed here recently, and fortunately I have a 303 ammunition
box full of spares including many of these from a verifier I broke
up some years ago which I kept for my 836 punch.
Neat! Pics!!
The rating plate shows .4kVA which is more than my
Flexowriter
transformer can handle so I have ordered a modern yellow industrial
110v socket so I can try it on a 3kVA transformer I have for an
angle grinder. I have searched though eBay for normal US wall
sockets and to my surprise cannot find them. I've tried all sorts
of search terms but obviously have not hit the right combination,
unless there is some law which prohibits them being sold retail or
something like that. Probably me being stupid.
They're available everywhere here, and are cheap. I'm surprised
that none are showing up on eBay...lots of smaller stores have good
luck dumping overstocked items on eBay, so pretty much everything
(new) shows up there sooner or later.
-Dave
11:37 a.m.
Roger Holmes wrote:
Looking through the parts list there is something
I'd like the list's
opinion on. The diagram shows a transformer but the list says
"REGULATOR ASM, FERRORESONANT-60CPS 120VA" and a similar option for
50Hz which of course I don't have. What are these for? Might they work
at the wrong frequency?
A ferroresonant transformer will not work properly at the
wrong frequency.
Will they be damaged or just not work?
I
don't think the transformer will be damaged, but it won't regulate
properly. Maybe someone else here that knows more about ferroresonant
transformers can provide an explanation of the results.
At CHM, the IBM 1401 restoration team had the same issue when restoring
a European 1401 in the US. They decided to get a power converter. (I
don't recall whether they got a rotary converter or a solid-state inverter.)
This is part of a 48v DC supply. Should I build a
simple 48V supply
myself or even see what I can find in my verifier spares?
Yes, replacing the power
supply is probably your best options.
Eric
11:53 a.m.
This is part
of a 48v DC supply. Should I build a simple 48V supply
myself or even see what I can find in my verifier spares?
Yes, replacing the power
supply is probably your best options.
1:04 p.m.
I wrote:
Yes, replacing the power supply is probably your best
options.
Tony Duell wrote:
> That's something I'd not want to do,
simply because it's not original.
A working machine with a non-original part is
far more interesting to me
than a non-working machine
with an original part. I'd certainly keep the original, and not make
any permanent changes.
Eric
26 May
26 May
11:16 a.m.
I wrote:
Agreed, but a working original machine (or at least a machine that keeps
to the original design) is surely even more interesting.
How far do you allow this non-originality to go? If you're not careful
you can get to the stage where you replace all the internals of a classic
computer with a PC running a suitable emulator [1]. That is surely a lot
less intereting than the original design.
[1] I am told some museums do this, but don't indicate the fact. I have
no problems with museusm using emulators if they don't want to run the
classic machine, or they can't repair it, or... but they darn well should
tell the vistiors that what they're seeing is not the real thing.
-tony
Yes, replacing the power supply is probably your
best options.
Tony Duell wrote:
> That's something I'd not want to do,
simply because it's not original.
A working machine with a non-original part is
far more interesting to me
than a non-working machine 
27 May
27 May
7:11 a.m.
Tony Duell wrote:
I have no problems with museusm using emulators if they don't want
to run the classic machine, or they can't repair it, or... but they
darn well should tell the vistiors that what they're seeing is not
the real thing.
I'll agree with you on this one, Tony. I'm kind of a hardware interest / software
interest mix. For me, USING a computer means more about the software. Given that,
I'm fine with the idea of emulators, and even wrote a CP/M emulator myself -- only to
throw it away when I saw the much better effort put into SimH. (Damn you all! -- no,
srsly, thanks for that gem!)
But there *IS* a certain appeal to knowing that electrons are running around in paths that
have been there for decades -- at least for me. I end up doing any CP/M development work
I do on simulators, but I like to RUN the programs in situ, on my IMSAI, or Kaypro, or
Osborne machines. Somehow, it seems... more authentic. Dunno, is that the right word?
Proper, somehow... as it should be.
And, to link to the ongoing religious discussion of editors, I'm personally fond of vi
and joe on *nix systems, and the WordStar editing commands in most programs in the CP/M
and DOS worlds. I'm fastest in that environment.
Warren
25 May
25 May
11:46 a.m.
Roger Holmes wrote:
Looking through the parts list there is something
I'd like the list's
opinion on. The diagram shows a transformer but the list says
"REGULATOR ASM, FERRORESONANT-60CPS 120VA" and a similar option for
50Hz which of course I don't have. What are these for? Might they work
at the wrong frequency? Will they be damaged or just not work? This is
part of a 48v DC supply. Should I build a simple 48V supply myself or
even see what I can find in my verifier spares?
Ferro-resonant regulators are a type of AC regulator using a special
transformer tailored to operate with the core around the flux saturation level.
Operated in this manner the output is regulated because the amount the magnetic
flux can change is limited.
The transformer has a special winding on it with a capacitor (may look similar
to a motor start cap) connected across, which is where the resonant aspect
comes in, and hence dependance on the operating frequency. I don't know enough
about them to say precisely what will happen when operated significantly off
the target design frequency: whether the output will change, loss of regulation
capability, excessive power consumption/heating, some combination of the
above... other than to say I expect 50 Hz vs 60Hz is more than enough to matter.
To my limited observation, IBM was rather fond of ferro-resonant regulators. I
had an IBM modem/store-loop controller at one time, the logic power supply
being a ferro-resonant transformer (no power transistors anywhere). It's one
reason some IBM equipment seems excessively heavy, the ferro-resonant
transformer (with cap) being typically heavier than would otherwise be required
for the same amount of power.
11:48 a.m.
The rating plate shows .4kVA which is more than my Flexowriter
transformer can handle so I have ordered a modern yellow industrial
110v socket so I can try it on a 3kVA transformer I have for an angle
I assume you want a 110 _plug_ here to fit your tool transformer.
The output of such transformers is centre-tapped to ground, that is
neither side is groudned (or close to ground). Most stuff doesn't mind
this, but I'd check the schematics to be sure.
grinder. I have searched though eBay for normal US
wall sockets and to
my surprise cannot find them. I've tried all sorts of search terms but
obviously have not hit the right combination, unless there is some law
which prohibits them being sold retail or something like that.
Probably me being stupid.
IIRC the brand name to look for is 'Hubble'
I seem to rememebr RS components sell the cable-mounting version, but they
are fairly expensive.
Alteratively by an 'exension cord' as they're called in the States and
cut the plug end off and wire it to your BS4343 plug.
Looking through the parts list there is something I'd like the list's
opinion on. The diagram shows a transformer but the list says
"REGULATOR ASM, FERRORESONANT-60CPS 120VA" and a similar option for
50Hz which of course I don't have. What are these for? Might they work
Ferroresonant transformers have an extra secondary winding resonated to a
harmonic of the mains freqeucny by a capacitor (normally clamped to the
transfomer core). Such transformers have a fairly stable output voltage,
which is why they're used in older competer equipment when electronic
regulators were complicated and expensive.
at the wrong frequency? Will they be damaged or just
not work? This is
They certainly won't work properly at the wrong frequency.
If you are lucky there will be multiple taps on the 'capacitor' winding
for different frequencies. If you're even luckier the tap setting will be
docuemtned.
Something I've never tried, but which may well work is to regard said
winding as a simple LC resonant circuit, remember that f ~ 1/sqrt(C) and
thus calculate the new value of capacitor needed given the 2 frequencies
and the size of the '60Hz' capacitor.
-tony
26 May
26 May
5:31 a.m.
On May 25, 2009, at 2:48 PM, Tony Duell wrote:
That would be Hubbell, and I doubt they make "regular" 110V wall
outlets. They make very large, very expensive power connectors that
are used on industrial equipment and big computers.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire
Port Charlotte, FL
grinder. I
have searched though eBay for normal US wall sockets
and to
my surprise cannot find them. I've tried all sorts of search terms
but
obviously have not hit the right combination, unless there is some
law
which prohibits them being sold retail or something like that.
Probably me being stupid.
IIRC the brand name to look for is 'Hubble' 
9:22 a.m.
On 26 May 2009 at 8:31, Dave McGuire wrote:
That would be Hubbell, and I doubt they make
"regular" 110V wall
outlets. They make very large, very expensive power connectors that
are used on industrial equipment and big computers.
Hubbell is a conglomerate and Hubbell-Bryant handles the more mundane
fixtures (yes, ordinary duplex receptacles). But the connectors on
all of my twist-lock tools is indeed labeled "Hubbell", although I
gather that the twist-lock stuff is now Hubbell-Kellems.
"Leviton" is another brand to search for.
It pays to buy quality in receptacles if they're going to see heavy
use--much of the residential stuff is made of very brittle plastic
and breaking out the area near the grounding prong is quite common on
the cheap stuff.
--Chuck
2 Jun
2 Jun
10:15 a.m.
New subject: Hubbell (was Re: IBM 029 Keypunch has arrived)
Chuck Guzis wrote:
On 26 May 2009 at 8:31, Dave McGuire wrote:
Quality? Yep. All my recepacles, switches and such are all Hubbell
Wiring Devices.
I've got a _very_ reliable contact in Hubbell Wiring Customer Service.
I can get answers if anyone needs it. Shoot me a message directly. Like
where to get certain devices, specs, etc...
--
--- Dave Woyciesjes
--- ICQ# 905818
--- AIM - woyciesjes
--- CompTIA A+ Certified IT Tech - http://certification.comptia.org/
--- HDI Certified Support Center Analyst - http://www.ThinkHDI.com/
"From there to here,
From here to there,
Funny things
are everywhere."
--- Dr. Seuss
That would be Hubbell, and I doubt they make
"regular" 110V wall
outlets. They make very large, very expensive power connectors that
are used on industrial equipment and big computers.
Hubbell is a conglomerate and Hubbell-Bryant handles the more mundane
fixtures (yes, ordinary duplex receptacles). But the connectors on
all of my twist-lock tools is indeed labeled "Hubbell", although I
gather that the twist-lock stuff is now Hubbell-Kellems.
"Leviton" is another brand to search for.
It pays to buy quality in receptacles if they're going to see heavy
use--much of the residential stuff is made of very brittle plastic
and breaking out the area near the grounding prong is quite common on
the cheap stuff.
--Chuck
26 May
26 May
12:04 p.m.
Dave McGuire wrote:
That would be Hubbell, and I doubt they make
"regular" 110V wall
outlets. They make very large, very expensive power connectors that
are used on industrial equipment and big computers.
They make excellent "NEMA
5-15R receptacles, though I'm reluctant to
call them "regular" since they're made much better than the common
hardware store variety. They'll set you back about $8 (or more for
hospital grade), vs. under $1 for the cheap-ass hardware store stuff.
Eric
12:39 p.m.
On May 25, 2009, at 2:48 PM, Tony Duell wrote:
That would be Hubbell, and I doubt they make "regular" 110V wall
Correct...
grinder.
I have searched though eBay for normal US wall sockets
and to
my surprise cannot find them. I've tried all sorts of search terms
but
obviously have not hit the right combination, unless there is some
law
which prohibits them being sold retail or something like that.
Probably me being stupid.
IIRC the brand name to look for is 'Hubble' outlets. They make very large, very expensive power
connectors that
are used on industrial equipment and big computers.
I am sure I've wired Hubbell branded 230V 15A plugs (like the 110V one,
but with the flat pins horizontal), along with line sockets for them. And
I've certainly seen 110V versions that look to have come from the same
company (white (nylon?) pin/socket assembles yhat fit into black plastic
bodies and are held on by coase-pitch captive self-tapping screws, so I
assumed those were Hubbell too.
They may not make wall-mounting socket outlets, but I would be _very_
suprised if they didn't make something that would take the normal 110V US
plug.
-tony
25 May
25 May
1:34 p.m.
On Mon, 25 May 2009, Roger Holmes wrote:
After a long wait, and paying unexpectedly high fees
to the freight
clearance company I finally have my hands on my 029 keypunch. To my
surprise it has an extra wide punching station which apparently is an
extra read head which allows it to be fed with ready-punched cards and
the text to be printed at the top of the card. An interesting bonus.
Sweet!
The [somewhat rare] interpreting feature is especially important, since
the stand alone-interpreter prints 60 columns, instead of the 80, and
therefore doesn't align the print with the punches.
The rating plate shows .4kVA which is more than my
Flexowriter
transformer can handle so I have ordered a modern yellow industrial
110v socket so I can try it on a 3kVA transformer I have for an angle
grinder. I have searched though eBay for normal US wall sockets and to
my surprise cannot find them. I've tried all sorts of search terms but
obviously have not hit the right combination, unless there is some law
which prohibits them being sold retail or something like that.
Probably me being stupid.
More likely two peoples divided by a common language.
The piece in the USA wall is called an "outlet" or "receptacle".
If you can't find them, one of us can send you some.
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin at xenosoft.com
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days inactive
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