19 Nov
2014
19 Nov
'14
1:43 p.m.
I am still unpacking after the move....
Anyway, I came across my HP2100A minicomputer, so I took a long look at it (seriously, I
must have
spent a couple of hours pulling boards, etc). Some day I would like to get it running
again.
I have the standard 8 CPU boards, and the 12895 DMA board. I almost have 32K of core. What
I
mean by that is that I have all the boards for 32K words of core. I am missing one of the
top
connectors between a core board and the address driver next to it.
I have a few I/O cards in the machine :
12531-60022 Buffered TTY Reg (2 off) looks to be current loop and RS232 serial
12551-6002 Relay Out Reg
12592-6001 +8 but Dup Reg (8 bit parallel for paper tape punch/reader?)
12554-60023 +16 bit Dup Reg (16 bit parallel?)
12566-60021 +True In/Out (another 16 bit parallel?)
13210-60004/6 Disc Interface 1/2 (7900 interface, 2 boards)
12539-60001 Time Base Gen (Heartbeat interrupt ?)
12590-6001 Plotter (I can find nothing about this board on the obvious sites).
Anyway, I have downloaded the appropriate manuals, but have some questions...
What is Current Transfer Logic, the machine seems to be full of such ICs? Any data
sheets,
etc out there?
I assume there's no chance of me finding a top connector for the memory system. Am I
right that the
only difference between the 2 flavours is the spacing of the edge connectors on the PCB?
Due to the
fact that the connector plugs into the core plane daughterboard, which is fitted on the
component side
of the sense/inhibit board, so the spacing between the edge plugs changes depending on
whether the
core is to the left or to the right of the address driver. Both top connectors seem to be
just pin-pin
wired on the PCB, but the manuals don't really mention them.
There is a tab on my A2 board telling me I have the floating point microcode and indeed
the
6 ROMs are fitted (in sockets) near the standard microcode ROMs. Was there ever a
published
source listing of this? It would be interesting...
Any information on that 'Plotter' board?
One major problem concerns the power switch. I don't have the key, and it's
currently in the
'panel lock' position. Now, I can trivially jumper the switch to enable the panel
but I would
rather not.
I have taken the switch assembly apart (there is an exploded diagram in the IPB manual)
and
it seems to use a standard Ace 7 pin tubular lock.
Were all 2100A's keyed alike (like all DEC machines were)? If so, does anyone have the
key
cutting data?
If not, I wonder if I could get a replacement lock and key? Or take the existing lock
apart (looks
to be one pin to drill out to get it apart, at least the IBM 5170 lock comes apart like
that) and
either get a key cut to suit the existing pinning, or re-pin it.
With the configuration I have (assume I can get 32K words of core, and have the I/O cards
I listed) what can I run on it?
-tony
20 Nov
20 Nov
8:32 p.m.
On Wed, Nov 19, 2014 at 2:43 PM, tony duell <ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk> wrote:
What is Current Transfer Logic, the machine seems to
be full of such ICs? Any data sheets,
etc out there?
I don't know about Current Transfer Logic, but my vague recollection
(probably wrong) was that it used Signetics Utilogic II and Fairchild
CuL or CTuL families. There are three different years' Utilogic
databooks on Bitsavers. There is some data on CuL and CTuL in the 1969
Fairchild Data Catalog on Bitsavers.
If it's not any of those, then I have no idea.
9:33 p.m.
On Wed, Nov 19, 2014 at 2:43 PM, tony duell <ard at
p850ug1.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> What is Current Transfer Logic, the machine seems to be full of such ICs? Any data
sheets,
. > etc out there?
I don't know about Current Transfer Logic, but my
vague recollection
(probably wrong) was that it used Signetics Utilogic II and Fairchild
CuL or CTuL families. There are three different years' Utilogic
databooks on Bitsavers. There is some data on CuL and CTuL in the 1969
Fairchild Data Catalog on Bitsavers.
Yes, you're right. It's CTuL. The HP parts lists in the manuals call them
'CTL', I foolishly
looked that up on Google and got a translation to 'Current Transfer Logic'. No,
it's
'Complementary Transistor microLogic', which seems to be somewhat ECL-like.
The HP2100A and the interfaces I have seem to be a mixture of CTuL and normal
TTL parts. I assume the former are unobtainium now, let's just hope that's not
where any faults are.
I will take a look at the Fairchild book on bitsavers, thanks...
-tony
9:49 p.m.
On 2014-Nov-19, at 1:43 PM, tony duell wrote:
Anyway, I came across my HP2100A minicomputer, so I
took a long look at it (seriously, I must have
spent a couple of hours pulling boards, etc). Some day I would like to get it running
again.
...
12531-60022 Buffered TTY Reg (2 off) looks to be
current loop and RS232 serial
Those should be 12531C's, they should have 225.28 KHz crystals, intended for 110 baud
operation.
Changing the crystal to 307.2 KHz should change it to a 12531D, for the standard baud rate
series, if desired.
These are the common console-device interface.
Some info:
http://www.cs.ubc.ca/~hilpert/e/HP21xx/io12531BCD.html
12592-6001 +8 but Dup Reg (8 bit parallel for paper
tape punch/reader?)
yes
...
12539-60001 Time Base Gen (Heartbeat interrupt ?)
yes
...
What is Current Transfer Logic, the machine seems to
be full of such ICs? Any data sheets,
etc out there?
The 2116,15,14 and 2100 used Fairchild CTuL, along with some TTL.
The family name is actually "Complementary Transistor MicroLogic".
It's an early (mid-1960s) IC family, similar to ECL in that it is a current-mode /
current-switching / non-saturating logic implementation, but involving PNP & NPN
transistors in the construction (hence the complementary).
When I was first obtained my 2116C ~15 years ago, I was fortunate to already have some
Fairchild catalogs that discuss the family.
Some info:
http://www.cs.ubc.ca/~hilpert/e/HP21xx/CTL.html
However, I was just looking at the Fairchild catalog now on bitsavers which Eric
mentioned, and it has more complete info.
I assume there's no chance of me finding a top
connector for the memory system. Am I right that the
only difference between the 2 flavours is the spacing of the edge connectors on the PCB?
Due to the
fact that the connector plugs into the core plane daughterboard, which is fitted on the
component side
of the sense/inhibit board, so the spacing between the edge plugs changes depending on
whether the
core is to the left or to the right of the address driver. Both top connectors seem to be
just pin-pin
wired on the PCB, but the manuals don't really mention them.
I have run across mention of the two connectors and the spacing distinction in some manual
but don't recall where off the top of my head.
It's one of those 'why did they do it that way' questions: from what I see, if
they had just ordered all the board pairs the same rather than putting them in mirror
image, they wouldn't have needed two different top connectors.
...
With the configuration I have (assume I can get 32K
words of core, and have the I/O cards
I listed) what can I run on it?
Aside from blinkenlight programs, in the not-to-distant future there should be a
stand-alone version of HP BASIC available. A friend and I are working on assembling it
from source. (There are probably old binaries out there somewhere but I haven't
obtained one).
I believe HP-IPL would run on a machine such as you have, it's a new (2000-era)
Forth-based system for the 2100 series, however I have not used it.
10:40 p.m.
With the
configuration I have (assume I can get 32K words of core, and have the I/O cards
I listed) what can I run on it?
Aside from blinkenlight programs, in the not-to-distant future there should be a
stand-alone version of HP BASIC available. A friend and I are working on assembling it
from source. (There are probably old binaries out there somewhere but I haven't
obtained one).
from a listing that I have had since 1971.
A bunch of tape images for HP stuff is up on bitsavers
(http://bitsavers.org/bits/HP/HP_1000_software_collection). I also came
into a fair number of HP paper tapes but I haven't yet had the time to
check them against what's on bitsavers to see if I have anything that
isn't already there.
TTFN - Guy
11:10 p.m.
On 2014-Nov-20, at 10:40 PM, Guy Sotomayor wrote:
I have the binary tape image for HP BASIC somewhere other than in the core of my
HP2116. The source is up on bitsavers scanned (and OCR'd) from a listing that I have
had since 1971.
Indeed, that's the source we're working from (we spoke of this on the list a few
weeks ago).
I've actually extracted (an almost complete) machine code / binary image from the
assembly output listings you provided on bitsavers, but it's more interesting to
fulfil a complete assembly from the source, so we're waiting for that before trying to
load & run.
With the configuration I have (assume I can get 32K
words of core, and have the I/O cards
I listed) what can I run on it?
Aside from blinkenlight programs, in the not-to-distant future there should be a
stand-alone version of HP BASIC available. A friend and I are working on assembling it
from source. (There are probably old binaries out there somewhere but I haven't
obtained one).
A bunch of tape images for HP stuff is up on bitsavers
(http://bitsavers.org/bits/HP/HP_1000_software_collection). I also came into a fair
number of HP paper tapes but I haven't yet had the time to check them against
what's on bitsavers to see if I have anything that isn't already there.
.. always be interested to hear if there's more period 2116 software, although I'm
a little limited as my 2116 currently has only 8KW memory.
11:25 p.m.
On 11/20/14 11:10 PM, Brent Hilpert wrote:
TTFN - Guy
On 2014-Nov-20, at 10:40 PM, Guy Sotomayor wrote:
I have the binary tape image for HP BASIC somewhere other than in the core of my
HP2116. The source is up on bitsavers scanned (and OCR'd) from a listing that I have
had since 1971. Indeed, that's the source we're working from (we spoke of
this on the list a few weeks ago).
I've actually extracted (an almost complete) machine code / binary image from the
assembly output listings you provided on bitsavers, but it's more interesting to
fulfil a complete assembly from the source, so we're waiting for that before trying to
load & run.
I have a cross assembler for the 21xx written in 'C' (I
didn't write it)
but I don't recall where I got it from. :-( It produces an absolute
binary image that is suitable for loading using the binary loader.
There should be the BASIC tape images on bitsavers.
With the configuration I have (assume I can get 32K
words of core, and have the I/O cards
I listed) what can I run on it?
Aside from blinkenlight programs, in the
not-to-distant future there should be a stand-alone version of HP BASIC available. A
friend and I are working on assembling it from source. (There are probably old binaries
out there somewhere but I haven't obtained one).
A bunch of tape images for HP stuff is up on
bitsavers (http://bitsavers.org/bits/HP/HP_1000_software_collection). I also came into a
fair number of HP paper tapes but I haven't yet had the time to check them against
what's on bitsavers to see if I have anything that isn't already there.
..
always be interested to hear if there's more period 2116 software, although I'm a
little limited as my 2116 currently has only 8KW memory. 
21 Nov
21 Nov
6:34 a.m.
Guy wrote....
I have a cross assembler for the 21xx written in 'C' (I didn't write it) but
I don't recall where I got it from. :-( It produces an absolute binary
image that is suitable for loading using the binary loader.
I would be very, very interested in obtaining a copy of that cross
assembler. Extremely so if it can produce relocatable object. But if not,
I'd gladly take it and extend it for same.
Best,
J
8:09 a.m.
Hi all,
I just saw that there was some discussion of Fairchild CTuL going on and it
jogged my memory; thought I'd share this link discussing same (in a
Burroughs context); perhaps it may be of some use.
http://users.monash.edu.au/~ralphk/CTUL.html
Best,
Sean
On Fri, Nov 21, 2014 at 9:34 AM, Jay West <jwest at classiccmp.org> wrote:
Guy wrote....
I have a cross assembler for the 21xx written in 'C' (I didn't write it)
but
I don't recall where I got it from. :-( It produces an absolute binary
image that is suitable for loading using the binary loader.
I would be very, very interested in obtaining a copy of that cross
assembler. Extremely so if it can produce relocatable object. But if not,
I'd gladly take it and extend it for same.
Best,
J
3:18 p.m.
On 2014-Nov-20, at 11:25 PM, Guy Sotomayor wrote:
On 11/20/14 11:10 PM, Brent Hilpert wrote:
OK, so 'recent' assembly has already been done - not surprising.
We had a new assembler for the 9830 and figured it would be minor to (back-)convert it for
the 21xx. It hasn't been as straightforward as anticipated however, due to the
vagaries of the original HP assembler syntax.
On 2014-Nov-20, at 10:40 PM, Guy Sotomayor
wrote:
Indeed, that's the source we're working from (we spoke of
this on the list a few weeks ago).
I've actually extracted (an almost complete) machine code / binary image from the
assembly output listings you provided on bitsavers, but it's more interesting to
fulfil a complete assembly from the source, so we're waiting for that before trying to
load & run.
I have a cross assembler for the 21xx written in 'C' (I
didn't write it) but I don't recall where I got it from. :-( It produces an
absolute binary image that is suitable for loading using the binary loader. > With
the configuration I have (assume I can get 32K words of core, and have the I/O cards
> I listed) what can I run on it?
Aside from blinkenlight programs, in the not-to-distant future there should be a
stand-alone version of HP BASIC available. A friend and I are working on assembling it
from source. (There are probably old binaries out there somewhere but I haven't
obtained one).
I have the binary tape image for HP BASIC somewhere other than in the core of my
HP2116. The source is up on bitsavers scanned (and OCR'd) from a listing that I have
had since 1971. There should be the BASIC tape images on bitsavers.
There are no binaries in the directory with the BASIC source, however it appears the
Moffat archive is now on bitsavers and there appears to be a binary there for a version of
the interpreter and PBS, along with lots of other early stuff to investigate.
I had found the Moffat pages years ago when they were at his own site, before they were on
bitsavers, but as I recall the binaries did not download transparently at that time,
that's why I was looking at assembling the source at this time.
(Your) source for BASIC is in the 'pdf' section of bitsavers, beside the hardware
manuals:
http://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/pdf/hp/2116/BASIC_Jan70/
while the Moffat stuff with binaries is over in the 'software' section:
http://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/bits/HP/paperTapes/JeffM/
I don't know what the story is with the Moffat stuff however, a lot of the file links
are dead.
Perhaps Al can comment.
>> A bunch of tape images for HP stuff is up on
bitsavers (http://bitsavers.org/bits/HP/HP_1000_software_collection). I also came into a
fair number of HP paper tapes but I haven't yet had the time to check them against
what's on bitsavers to see if I have anything that isn't already there.
> .. always be interested to hear if there's more period 2116 software, although
I'm a little limited as my 2116 currently has only 8KW memory.
9:20 a.m.
On 11/22/14 7:54 AM, Al Kossow wrote:
On 11/21/14 3:18 PM, Brent Hilpert wrote:
It was all still there, the index.html was a bit stale so I just converted it to a text
file and renamed the original file to old_index.html.
I also added .bin suffixes to all the files in paperTapes/tape_images
Perhaps Al can comment.
Jeff's collection was mostly superseded by the discovery and archiving of the
Cupertino binary tapes. I'll see if I can figure out what happened to Jeff's
stuff.
23 Nov
23 Nov
12:17 a.m.
On 2014-Nov-22, at 9:20 AM, Al Kossow wrote:
On 11/22/14 7:54 AM, Al Kossow wrote:
Thanks Al, good to see these accessible.
On 11/21/14 3:18 PM, Brent Hilpert wrote:
It was all still there, the index.html was a bit stale so I just converted it to
a text
file and renamed the original file to old_index.html.
I also added .bin suffixes to all the files in paperTapes/tape_images Perhaps Al can comment.
Jeff's collection was mostly superseded by the discovery and archiving of
the
Cupertino binary tapes. I'll see if I can figure out what happened to Jeff's
stuff.
21 Nov
21 Nov
10:58 a.m.
12531-60022
Buffered TTY Reg (2 off) looks to be current loop and RS232 serial
Those should be 12531C's, they should have 225.28 KHz crystals, intended for 110 baud
operation.
Changing the crystal to 307.2 KHz should change it to a 12531D, for the standard baud
rate series, if desired.
These are the common console-device interface. 12592-6001 +8
but Dup Reg (8 bit parallel for paper tape punch/reader?)
yes What is
Current Transfer Logic, the machine seems to be full of such ICs? Any data sheets,
etc out there?
The 2116,15,14 and 2100 used Fairchild CTuL, along with some TTL.
The family name is actually "Complementary Transistor MicroLogic". 
20 Nov
20 Nov
11:06 p.m.
On 11/19/2014 1:43 PM, tony duell wrote:
I assume there's no chance of me finding a top
connector for the memory system. Am I right that the
only difference between the 2 flavours is the spacing of the edge connectors on the PCB?
Due to the
fact that the connector plugs into the core plane daughterboard, which is fitted on the
component side
of the sense/inhibit board, so the spacing between the edge plugs changes depending on
whether the
core is to the left or to the right of the address driver. Both top connectors seem to be
just pin-pin
wired on the PCB, but the manuals don't really mention them.
There's a chance I can come up with a connector, but won't be able to
look until the beginning of December.
I'll look and see what I have. I was given a box of them that were
removed from 2116c's (same core as the 2100).
One major problem concerns the power switch. I don't have the key, and it's
currently in the
'panel lock' position. Now, I can trivially jumper the switch to enable the panel
but I would
rather not.
I have eleven 2100's and they all use the same key. Doesn't mean that
all 2100's do, but mine did.
I can send you a key if you want.
Bob
21 Nov
21 Nov
11:02 a.m.
[HP2100 core memory top connector]
That's greedy :-)
There's a chance I can come up with a connector,
but won't be able to
look until the beginning of December.
I'll look and see what I have. I was given a box of them that were
removed from 2116c's (same core as the 2100).
Thanks. I will look at the part numbers to see just what I need. If you have one, it would
be great.
One major problem concerns the power switch. I
don't have the key, and it's currently in the
'panel lock' position. Now, I can trivially jumper the switch to enable the panel
but I would
rather not.
I have eleven 2100's and they all use the same key. Doesn't mean that all 2100's do, but mine did.
I can send you a key if you want.
Thanks. It's certainly worth a try before I take the lock apart and try to re-pin it.
-tony
Bob
6:27 a.m.
Tony wrote...
Anyway, I came across my HP2100A minicomputer, so I took a long look at it
(seriously, I must have spent a couple of hours pulling boards, etc). Some
day I would like to get it running again.
Congrats, the 2100 is a wonderful machine. IMHO, the
easiest/quickest/MostFunctional front panel ever on any computer. The "light
being the pushbutton" allows for really quick entry/changes and strong
visual cues. I find I can enter front panel code quicker on that panel than
any other.
I assume there's no chance of me finding a top connector for the memory
system. Am I right that the only difference between the 2 flavours is the
spacing of the edge connectors on the PCB? Due to the fact that the
connector plugs into the core plane daughterboard, which is fitted on the
component side of the sense/inhibit board, so the spacing between the edge
plugs changes depending on whether the core is to the left or to the right
of the address driver. Both top connectors seem to be just pin-pin wired on
the PCB, but the manuals don't really mention them.
You may well be able to procure one. I have a source that may have one
available for sale, email me off-list for particulars. If that fails, there
is somewhat of a chance I may have a spare.
There is a tab on my A2 board telling me I have the floating point microcode
and indeed the
6 ROMs are fitted (in sockets) near the standard microcode ROMs. Was there
ever a published source listing of this? It would be interesting...
I believe the microcode listings are around. Can't put my fingers on it at
the moment.
One major problem concerns the power switch. I don't have the key, and it's
currently in the 'panel lock' position. Now, I can trivially jumper the
switch to enable the panel but I would rather not.
I probably have a spare key... but at the least, I'm sure I could loan you a
key so you can have a copy made.
Were all 2100A's keyed alike (like all DEC machines were)? If so, does
anyone have the key cutting data?
I am not positive, but I believe they were all keyed alike.
With the configuration I have (assume I can get 32K words of core, and have
the I/O cards I listed) what can I run on it?
The standard diagnostics library (the one that uses the diagnostic
configurator, not the standalone diags) is kinda sorta an operating system
in and of itself. Fun to play with. I can strongly recommend HP-IPL/OS. It
will run on even less hardware than what you have, yet fully supports
maximum hardware configurations. It is pretty much "Forth", and very very
well designed. You can pretty much do anything with that.
Best,
J
11:20 a.m.
Congrats, the 2100 is a wonderful machine. IMHO, the
easiest/quickest/MostFunctional front panel ever on any computer. The "light
being the pushbutton" allows for really quick entry/changes and strong
visual cues. I find I can enter front panel code quicker on that panel than
any other.
Yes, fortunately I do have the 'full' panel. I've not tested all the bulbs
yet, although
I do find extracting them and getting them back to be painful. The fomer is possible
using my (UK) Post Office Extractor Np 5 (used for telephone exchange bulbs), but
aligning the pins with the tiny holes in the switch to re-insert them is a pain...
[Floating point]
I believe the microcode listings are around. Can't
put my fingers on it at
the moment.
I have the CPU microcode listings, I think, in one of the manuals. I've also read
the microcoding manual, for all I don't have a WCS board (that is something I
[Panel keylock switch]
I probably have a spare key... but at the least,
I'm sure I could loan you a
key so you can have a copy made.
I have been offered a spare key already. If that doesn't work out, I suspect
taking the lock apart and measuring the pins is the way forwards. These locks
are not complicated, I have done it before on other machines.
-tony
3633
days inactive
3637
days old
17 comments
8 participants
participants (8)
-
aek＠bitsavers.org -
ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
bobalan＠sbcglobal.net -
ggs＠shiresoft.com -
hilpert＠cs.ubc.ca -
jwest＠classiccmp.org -
scaron＠umich.edu -
spacewar＠gmail.com