12 Oct
2015
12 Oct
'15
3:12 p.m.
Hey there,
I'm currently working on a replica of Don Lancaster's prototype TV
Typewriter (pic here:
http://s1381.photobucket.com/user/unclefalter/media/20151011_125748_zpssu7yy
ujf.jpg.html?o=0 ) and I was wondering - does anyone know where the unit
that appeared on the cover (with the more refined keyboard) ended up? I've
asked around, including Don and nobody seems to know where it got to.
I'm also wondering if anyone knows a source that might have the keytops that
unit used or something close (I understand they were made by Mechanical
Enterprises). I've enough parts here to build two or three TVTs and I
thought after I get the prototype replica done I might go for the cover
unit, esp. if it no longer exists anymore. But I understand those keytops
were kind of a one off deal for that article.
Thanks!!
Brad
12 Oct
12 Oct
5:31 p.m.
That keyboard does indeed look pretty far out ... it must have been ...
"interesting" ... to type on :O
Best,
Sean
On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 6:12 PM, Brad <unclefalter at yahoo.ca> wrote:
Hey there,
I'm currently working on a replica of Don Lancaster's prototype TV
Typewriter (pic here:
http://s1381.photobucket.com/user/unclefalter/media/20151011_125748_zpssu7yy
ujf.jpg.html?o=0 ) and I was wondering - does anyone know where the unit
that appeared on the cover (with the more refined keyboard) ended up? I've
asked around, including Don and nobody seems to know where it got to.
I'm also wondering if anyone knows a source that might have the keytops
that
unit used or something close (I understand they were made by Mechanical
Enterprises). I've enough parts here to build two or three TVTs and I
thought after I get the prototype replica done I might go for the cover
unit, esp. if it no longer exists anymore. But I understand those keytops
were kind of a one off deal for that article.
Thanks!!
Brad
9:04 p.m.
Looks like (but not exactely) Sinclair QL keys :)
These can be easily done in 3d printing
2015-10-12 21:31 GMT-03:00 Sean Caron <scaron at umich.edu>:
That keyboard does indeed look pretty far out ... it
must have been ...
"interesting" ... to type on :O
Best,
Sean
On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 6:12 PM, Brad <unclefalter at yahoo.ca> wrote:
Hey there,
I'm currently working on a replica of Don Lancaster's prototype TV
Typewriter (pic here:
http://s1381.photobucket.com/user/unclefalter/media/20151011_125748_zpssu7yy
ujf.jpg.html?o=0 ) and I was wondering - does
anyone know where the unit
that appeared on the cover (with the more refined keyboard) ended up?
I've
asked around, including Don and nobody seems to
know where it got to.
I'm also wondering if anyone knows a source that might have the keytops
that
unit used or something close (I understand they were made by Mechanical
Enterprises). I've enough parts here to build two or three TVTs and I
thought after I get the prototype replica done I might go for the cover
unit, esp. if it no longer exists anymore. But I understand those
keytops
were kind of a one off deal for that article.
Thanks!!
Brad
9:18 p.m.
On 10/12/2015 09:04 PM, Alexandre Souza wrote:
Looks like (but not exactely) Sinclair QL keys :)
These can be easily done in 3d printing
These are late 60s Micro Switch modular keys. I believe that the tops
attach to the keys using a short tubular shaft. So pretty simple to
duplicate even with casting resin.
--Chuck
10:24 p.m.
My understanding is these were custom keytops ordered as part of the 'low cost
keyboard' article that appeared in RE. According to RE, the keyboard on the cover
unit was built using the method Don described, including hand made (and very laboriously
made) switches. Definitely not microswitch as far as I've read.
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Chuck Guzis
Sent: Monday, October 12, 2015 9:19 PM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Subject: Re: TV Typewriter Cover Unit location?
On 10/12/2015 09:04 PM, Alexandre Souza wrote:
Looks like (but not exactely) Sinclair QL keys :)
These can be easily
done in 3d printing
These are late 60s Micro Switch modular keys. I believe that the tops attach to the keys
using a short tubular shaft. So pretty simple to duplicate even with casting resin.
--Chuck
-----
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Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2015.0.6172 / Virus Database: 4447/10805 - Release Date: 10/12/15
11:10 p.m.
On 10/12/2015 10:24 PM, Brad wrote:
My understanding is these were custom keytops ordered
as part of the
'low cost keyboard' article that appeared in RE. According to RE,
the keyboard on the cover unit was built using the method Don
described, including hand made (and very laboriously made) switches.
Definitely not microswitch as far as I've read.
Okay, now I'm confused. The photo linked to is what you're building,
using Micro Switch assemblies, but that's not what you're talking about.
So, how about a photo of exactly what you're looking for?
--Chuck
13 Oct
13 Oct
12:26 a.m.
Yeah sorry.. wasn't clear on that one I guess. The cover unit is this guy:
http://www.swtpc.com/mholley/RadioElectronics/Cover_Sep73_640.jpg
I'm just curious if anyone out there knows what happened to it. Seems like the kind
of thing that would have been preserved. I very much doubt I'd be able to find those
keytops. I don't even know if that unit was fully functional or mostly a cover prop.
The keytops appear to all have extra symbols. I've seen early 70s keyboards that come
close but not quite.
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Chuck Guzis
Sent: Monday, October 12, 2015 11:10 PM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Subject: Re: TV Typewriter Cover Unit location?
On 10/12/2015 10:24 PM, Brad wrote:
My understanding is these were custom keytops ordered
as part of the
'low cost keyboard' article that appeared in RE. According to RE, the
keyboard on the cover unit was built using the method Don described,
including hand made (and very laboriously made) switches.
Definitely not microswitch as far as I've read.
Okay, now I'm confused. The photo linked to is what you're building, using Micro
Switch assemblies, but that's not what you're talking about.
So, how about a photo of exactly what you're looking for?
--Chuck
-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2015.0.6172 / Virus Database: 4447/10805 - Release Date: 10/12/15
12:35 a.m.
Come to think of now.. the keytops kind of resemble those on my CT-1024. Similar height,
same giant 0 key. My CT-1024 keys are black and lack the extra 'functions' marked
on each key though. Maybe SWTPC was buying from Mechanical Enterprises too. Reading
closely from my magazine cover.. the extra 'functions' on each key include symbols
like VT LF and DLE
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Brad
Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2015 12:26 AM
To: 'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts' <cctalk at
classiccmp.org>
Subject: RE: TV Typewriter Cover Unit location?
Yeah sorry.. wasn't clear on that one I guess. The cover unit is this guy:
http://www.swtpc.com/mholley/RadioElectronics/Cover_Sep73_640.jpg
I'm just curious if anyone out there knows what happened to it. Seems like the kind
of thing that would have been preserved. I very much doubt I'd be able to find those
keytops. I don't even know if that unit was fully functional or mostly a cover prop.
The keytops appear to all have extra symbols. I've seen early 70s keyboards that come
close but not quite.
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Chuck Guzis
Sent: Monday, October 12, 2015 11:10 PM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Subject: Re: TV Typewriter Cover Unit location?
On 10/12/2015 10:24 PM, Brad wrote:
My understanding is these were custom keytops ordered
as part of the
'low cost keyboard' article that appeared in RE. According to RE, the
keyboard on the cover unit was built using the method Don described,
including hand made (and very laboriously made) switches.
Definitely not microswitch as far as I've read.
Okay, now I'm confused. The photo linked to is what you're building, using Micro
Switch assemblies, but that's not what you're talking about.
So, how about a photo of exactly what you're looking for?
--Chuck
-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2015.0.6172 / Virus Database: 4447/10805 - Release Date: 10/12/15
-----
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Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2015.0.6172 / Virus Database: 4447/10805 - Release Date: 10/12/15
8:22 a.m.
Brad, I'm going to say that it will be impossible to identify the
keyboard used from a photo. The issue is that all sorts of computer
equipment used gray key bodies with white letters.
For example, here's a Control DD60 console display unit:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CDC_6000_series#/media/File:CDC_6600_console.…
GRI (George Risk Industries) probably made a jillion gray-keyed
keyboards for various manufacturers. IBM used gray keys, Univac used
gray keys, CDC used gray keys...it's pretty much impossible to say.
--Chuck
9:04 a.m.
Thanks Chuck. I assume being over 40 years it's unlikely we'll ever see these
keytops in the wild. Although I said that about TVT boards and then a set showed up on
ebay and slipped by me for $40. :)
Here's another shot of the keyboard in the original article:
http://www.swtpc.com/mholley/RadioElectronics/Feb1973/RE_Feb_1973_pg55.jpg
Rereading the parts list here:
http://www.swtpc.com/mholley/RadioElectronics/Feb1973/RE_Feb_1973_pg88.jpg
I caught something I didn't before -- Don says 'any reasonable callout'. If
I'm understanding what a callout is, that's the actual marking that tells you what
that key is. Based on that, maybe Mechanical Enterprises didn't offer a standard set
of keys, but rather custom keytops that could have whatever you asked for on them? If
that's the case, then as long as I could find someone to produce the correctish
dimensions of those keytops, and could figure out from the bad photos what each key had on
it, I could potentially replicate that and be able to say that's what the hobbyist did
back in the day more or less.
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Chuck Guzis
Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2015 8:23 AM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Subject: Re: TV Typewriter Cover Unit location?
Brad, I'm going to say that it will be impossible to identify the keyboard used from a
photo. The issue is that all sorts of computer equipment used gray key bodies with white
letters.
For example, here's a Control DD60 console display unit:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CDC_6000_series#/media/File:CDC_6600_console.…
GRI (George Risk Industries) probably made a jillion gray-keyed keyboards for various
manufacturers. IBM used gray keys, Univac used gray keys, CDC used gray keys...it's
pretty much impossible to say.
--Chuck
-----
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Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2015.0.6172 / Virus Database: 4447/10805 - Release Date: 10/12/15
9:58 a.m.
Several folks produce custom keytops. I found these:-
https://keycapsdirect.worldsecuresystems.com/products/inventory
they might want to produce a retro layout for you...
Dave
G4UGM
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Brad
Sent: 13 October 2015 17:04
To: 'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts'
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Subject: RE: TV Typewriter Cover Unit location?
Thanks Chuck. I assume being over 40 years it's unlikely we'll ever see these
keytops in the wild. Although I said that about TVT boards and then a set
showed up on ebay and slipped by me for $40. :)
Here's another shot of the keyboard in the original article:
http://www.swtpc.com/mholley/RadioElectronics/Feb1973/RE_Feb_1973_p
g55.jpg
Rereading the parts list here:
http://www.swtpc.com/mholley/RadioElectronics/Feb1973/RE_Feb_1973_p
g88.jpg
I caught something I didn't before -- Don says 'any reasonable callout'. If
I'm
understanding what a callout is, that's the actual marking that tells you what
that key is. Based on that, maybe Mechanical Enterprises didn't offer a
standard set of keys, but rather custom keytops that could have whatever
you asked for on them? If that's the case, then as long as I could find
someone to produce the correctish dimensions of those keytops, and could
figure out from the bad photos what each key had on it, I could potentially
replicate that and be able to say that's what the hobbyist did back in the day
more or less.
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Chuck
Guzis
Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2015 8:23 AM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Subject: Re: TV Typewriter Cover Unit location?
Brad, I'm going to say that it will be impossible to identify the keyboard used
from a photo. The issue is that all sorts of computer equipment used gray
key bodies with white letters.
For example, here's a Control DD60 console display unit:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CDC_6000_series#/media/File:CDC_6600_con
sole.JPG
GRI (George Risk Industries) probably made a jillion gray-keyed keyboards
for various manufacturers. IBM used gray keys, Univac used gray keys, CDC
used gray keys...it's pretty much impossible to say.
--Chuck
-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2015.0.6172 / Virus Database: 4447/10805 - Release Date: 10/12/15
9:23 a.m.
Here is a link to my TV Typewriter, you can see the mfg info for the
keyboard which was included. I know this isn't the keyboard you are
looking for, but is a period correct keyboard:
https://picasaweb.google.com/105518971733743859503/TVTypewriter?authkey=Gv1…
10:01 a.m.
On 10/13/2015 09:23 AM, Nick Allen wrote:
Here is a link to my TV Typewriter, you can see the
mfg info for the
keyboard which was included. I know this isn't the keyboard you are
looking for, but is a period correct keyboard:
https://picasaweb.google.com/105518971733743859503/TVTypewriter?authkey=Gv1…
Yeah, I had one like that as well. The "feel" was terrible. I
eventually replaced it with one of those NOS surplus terminal keyboards
with the solid molded plastic base--I think LSI used those. I still
have a few keytops from it.
--Chuck
10:15 a.m.
I think the answer on the keytop thing may have been staring me in the face this whole
time. This is a blank key from my CT1024:
http://s1381.photobucket.com/user/unclefalter/media/20151013_092925_zpsiggg…
Although the photo is a bit difficult to make out because the key is black and my camera
sucks -- comparing it to the ones on the cover unit, it does appear to be the same
physical shape with the smallish legent/callout area and the tall curvy sides. The keys
on my CT1024 have the legends/callouts painted on them, not engraved. I could simply make
a mold of this key, cast it with my 2 part resin, paint it and then silkscreen the
necessary legends/callouts on it. 'Simply'. Heh. But I do think now possibly
SWTPC used the same basic keytops here that were offered in that initial 'low cost
keyboard' article.
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Chuck Guzis
Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2015 10:02 AM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Subject: Re: TV Typewriter Cover Unit location?
On 10/13/2015 09:23 AM, Nick Allen wrote:
Here is a link to my TV Typewriter, you can see the
mfg info for the
keyboard which was included. I know this isn't the keyboard you are
looking for, but is a period correct keyboard:
https://picasaweb.google.com/105518971733743859503/TVTypewriter?authke
y=Gv1sRgCJnp_Z-jtauDFQ#6205168098809090402
Yeah, I had one like that as well. The "feel" was terrible. I eventually
replaced it with one of those NOS surplus terminal keyboards with the solid molded plastic
base--I think LSI used those. I still have a few keytops from it.
--Chuck
-----
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Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2015.0.6172 / Virus Database: 4447/10805 - Release Date: 10/12/15
10:06 a.m.
Nick thank you so much for that photo. This seems to c onfirm a few things I didn't
know about the prototype (not the cover unit we're talking about in this thread) --
that Don's prototype boards must roughly conform to the SWTPC boards you have there
(if they are SWTPC, or did you make them from the magazine plans?).
I had wondered how one accessed the boards since there appeared to be no access from the
top. The museum has the prototype unit screwed down to the display unit it sits on so
they cannot flip it over. I have a photo of the backside of it showing what appears to be
metal but I can't tell if that's the whole bottom of the case or just the back.
http://s1381.photobucket.com/user/unclefalter/media/IMG_3572_zpsbsahxfq7.jp…
But based on your photo, the access must be from the bottom. Maybe there isn't a
bottom at all (hopefully one day I can get the museum to flip it over and look, or maybe
someone has a photo from the days when the prototype went to various vintage computer
shows).
Brad
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Nick Allen
Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2015 9:24 AM
To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: TV Typewriter Cover Unit location?
Here is a link to my TV Typewriter, you can see the mfg info for the keyboard which was
included. I know this isn't the keyboard you are looking for, but is a period correct
keyboard:
https://picasaweb.google.com/105518971733743859503/TVTypewriter?authkey=Gv1…
-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2015.0.6172 / Virus Database: 4447/10805 - Release Date: 10/12/15
10:42 a.m.
You are correct Brad, access is from the bottom. The bottom is exposed,
not bottom cover.
8:29 a.m.
On 10/12/2015 5:12 PM, Brad wrote:
I'm currently working on a replica of Don Lancaster's prototype TV
Typewriter (pic here:
http://s1381.photobucket.com/user/unclefalter/media/20151011_125748_zpssu7yy
ujf.jpg.html?o=0 ) and I was wondering - does anyone know where the unit
that appeared on the cover (with the more refined keyboard) ended up? I've
asked around, including Don and nobody seems to know where it got to.
I'm also wondering if anyone knows a source that might have the keytops that
unit used or something close (I understand they were made by Mechanical
Enterprises). I've enough parts here to build two or three TVTs and I
thought after I get the prototype replica done I might go for the cover
unit, esp. if it no longer exists anymore. But I understand those keytops
were kind of a one off deal for that article.
I actually have one of those funky keyboards shown in the link quoted
above on photobucket.com that I acquired around the time of the article
for my TVT - but this is not what was shown on the cover page of the
magazine, as later posts have pointed out.
JRJ
8:52 a.m.
Cool, Jay! Was your keyboard one of the 40 or so that Don re-assembled and
offered? Or is it still in stock form?
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Jay Jaeger
Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2015 8:29 AM
To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: TV Typewriter Cover Unit location?
On 10/12/2015 5:12 PM, Brad wrote:
I'm currently working on a replica of Don Lancaster's prototype TV
Typewriter (pic here:
http://s1381.photobucket.com/user/unclefalter/media/20151011_125748_zp
ssu7yy
ujf.jpg.html?o=0 ) and I was wondering - does anyone know where the
unit that appeared on the cover (with the more refined keyboard) ended
up? I've asked around, including Don and nobody seems to know where it
got
to.
I'm also wondering if anyone knows a source that might have the
keytops that unit used or something close (I understand they were made
by Mechanical Enterprises). I've enough parts here to build two or
three TVTs and I thought after I get the prototype replica done I
might go for the cover unit, esp. if it no longer exists anymore. But
I understand those keytops were kind of a one off deal for that article.
I actually have one of those funky keyboards shown in the link quoted above
on photobucket.com that I acquired around the time of the article for my TVT
- but this is not what was shown on the cover page of the magazine, as later
posts have pointed out.
JRJ
-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2015.0.6172 / Virus Database: 4447/10805 - Release Date: 10/12/15
10:15 a.m.
On 10/13/2015 10:52 AM, Brad wrote:
Cool, Jay! Was your keyboard one of the 40 or so that
Don re-assembled and
offered? Or is it still in stock form?
Mine is "original", as ordered from wherever the article said to get
them, back in the 70's.
I think one or two of the round pieces got lost - they were just glued
onto the square block and tend to fall off.
JRJ
11:29 a.m.
Interesting. If you're ever inclined to post a photo I would be most
interested. It would confirm a few theories I have about what Don was using
at the time. This whole project began in part because I wanted to have one
of these and thought I'd never see one come up for sale, given how hard it
is to find even a picture of an original one online (I think there's a
couple of photos of one built by Mr. Rethemeyer, but that's it). I'm really
interested in seeing originals and how people executed the plans, on that or
any other of the related Radio Electronics projects.
Brad
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Jay Jaeger
Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2015 10:16 AM
To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: TV Typewriter Cover Unit location?
On 10/13/2015 10:52 AM, Brad wrote:
Cool, Jay! Was your keyboard one of the 40 or so that
Don
re-assembled and offered? Or is it still in stock form?
Mine is "original", as ordered from wherever the article said to get them,
back in the 70's.
I think one or two of the round pieces got lost - they were just glued onto
the square block and tend to fall off.
JRJ
-----
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Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2015.0.6172 / Virus Database: 4447/10805 - Release Date: 10/12/15
3134
days inactive
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19 comments
7 participants
participants (7)
-
alexandre.tabajara＠gmail.com -
cclist＠sydex.com -
cube1＠charter.net -
dave.g4ugm＠gmail.com -
mail.nickallen＠gmail.com -
scaron＠umich.edu -
unclefalter＠yahoo.ca