14 Nov
2001
14 Nov
'01
6:06 a.m.
hey list-
Just announced on /., the venerable HP3000 line will join HP calculators
in HP's new "we don't want to do cool stuff anymore" business model.
Well, maybe that's harsh. But it is still another sad day for computing.
- Dan
--
Dan Linder / dlinder @ uiuc.edu
Graduate Student, College of Engineering, Dept. of Computer Science
- Dept. of Computer Science Teaching Assistant
- DRES Computer Accessibility Researcher
14 Nov
14 Nov
8:17 a.m.
hey list-
Just announced on /., the venerable HP3000 line will join HP calculators
in HP's new "we don't want to do cool stuff anymore" business model.
Well, maybe that's harsh. But it is still another sad day for computing.
Um, what are they going to run MPE (or whatever it's called) on? What's
the migration path? UNIX?
Zane
--
| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator |
| healyzh(a)aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast |
| | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, |
| PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. |
| http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ |
9:24 a.m.
On Wed, 14 Nov 2001, Zane H. Healy wrote:
According to the press release, they want you to migrate to 9000's or
their PC servers products.
As for MPE on other platforms.. tempting. They should open source the
whole damn thing. That would be an *interesting* read.
- Dan
Just announced
on /., the venerable HP3000 line will join HP calculators
in HP's new "we don't want to do cool stuff anymore" business model.
Um, what are they going to run MPE (or whatever it's called) on? What's
the migration path? UNIX? 
2:50 p.m.
Dan Linder skrev:
Just announced on /., the venerable HP3000 line will
join HP calculators
in HP's new "we don't want to do cool stuff anymore" business model.
You're forgetting that PA-RISC is also in the same position. It's called
"legacy", isn't it?
Well, maybe that's harsh. But it is still another
sad day for computing.
But was the HP-3000 really cool? I know nothing at all about the system, apart
from that it's a business-oriented mainframe or
mini range.
--
En ligne avec Thor 2.6a.
3:39 p.m.
Just announced
on /., the venerable HP3000 line will join HP calculators
in HP's new "we don't want to do cool stuff anymore" business model.
You're forgetting that PA-RISC is also in the same position. It's called
"legacy", isn't it?
Well, maybe that's harsh. But it is still
another sad day for computing.
But was the HP-3000 really cool? I know nothing at all about the system, apart
from that it's a business-oriented mainframe or mini range. 
15 Nov
15 Nov
2:24 a.m.
At 08:39 PM 11/14/01 -0600, you wrote:
I've messed around a little with MPE, and took the
introductory
administration
class offered by HP. MPE is an odd operating system.
I learned BASIC in an HP3000 series II, I think, back in '78.
It had slow graphics terminals; they were very cool.
I did not learn anything about administration, though.
MPE=multiprogamming executive, i.e., a basic timesharing
system in its beginnings. I have the Jan. '73 Hewlett-Packard
Journal where it is introduced.
Contents:
1) An Economical Full-Scale Multipurpose Computer System.
Abstract: This is the first 16-bit computer with a hardware stack
architecture and virtual memory. It handles time-sharing, batch-
processing, and real-time operations in several languages
concurrently
2) Central Bus Links Modular HP3000 Hardware.
Abstract: Sharing the bus can be one or more cpu's. I/O processors,
memory modules, high-speed I/O channels, and special devices.
The microprogrammed cpu's have a procedure-oriented stack architecture.
3) Software for a Multilingual Computer.
Abstract: SPL is a high-level language that's as efficient as other
system's assembly-language code. Other 3000 languages are FORTRAN,
BASIC, and COBOL.
4) Single Operating System Serves all HP Users.
Abstract: The Multiprogramming Executive operating system takes care
of command interpretation*, file management, memory management,
scheduling and dispatching, and input/output management for
time-sharing, batch and real-time users.
[*] I'm sure it wasn't a preferred OS at AT&T.
carlos.
--------------------------------------------------------------
Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo(a)nospammers.ieee.org
14 Nov
14 Nov
7:34 p.m.
Emanuel wrote:
Anybody has informations about the cpu they used ?
See my earlier post about how they started back in '73;
16 bit, virtual mem, multi-cpu capable, hardware stack for fast
context switching; very oriented towards time sharing. Now MPE
runs on PA-RISC; I don't know what the architecture of
HP3000 was in the 80's and until they started to use
PA-RISC. Does anybody know when it became 32bit?
carlos.
17 Nov
17 Nov
10:04 a.m.
Re:
See my earlier post about how they started back in
'73;
1972, but the actual "start" date is hard to pin down. Was it first
introduction, or the re-introduction (after it was pulled off the market)?
I have an "Alpha External Reference Specification" on my desk at the
moment ... it's not mine :( ... and it's dated 1971-09-22.
(It's the "instruction set" manual for the HP 3000.)
16 bit, virtual mem, multi-cpu capable, hardware stack
for fast
The 16-bit HP 3000 was never multi-CPU. The HP 3000 Series III, introduced
in 1978, *did* have one instruction that was intended to support
having a second CPU, but nothing was ever done with it. The multiple-CPU
support came with the PA-RISC system, with release MPE XL 3.0
context switching; very oriented towards time sharing.
Now MPE
runs on PA-RISC; I don't know what the architecture of
HP3000 was in the 80's and until they started to use
PA-RISC. Does anybody know when it became 32bit?
November, 1986, was the first customer shipment of any PA-RISC based
computer, the HP 9000/840. It was followed very quickly (a month?)
by the HP 3000/930 (same hardware), and shortly by the HP 3000/950 and then
the same-hardware HP 9000/850.
The 9000/840 & 3000/930 had a clock speed of 8 MHz.
The 9000/850 & 3000/950 had a clock speed of about 13.7 MHz.
Stan Sieler sieler(a)allegro.com
www.allegro.com/sieler/wanted/index.html www.allegro.com/sieler
14 Nov
14 Nov
4:01 p.m.
On 15 Nov 2001, Iggy Drougge wrote:
Dan Linder skrev:
Well, Eric called MPE "odd", and in my book, anything "odd" in
computers
is pretty darn cool. (Note that "cool" != "usable" | "nice"
| "smart" |
etc) :)
- Dan
--
Dan Linder / dlinder @ uiuc.edu
Graduate Student, College of Engineering, Dept. of Computer Science
- Dept. of Computer Science Teaching Assistant
- DRES Computer Accessibility Researcher
Just announced on /., the venerable HP3000 line
will join HP calculators
in HP's new "we don't want to do cool stuff anymore" business model.
But was the HP-3000 really cool? I know nothing at all about the system, apart
from that it's a business-oriented mainframe or mini range. 
5:11 p.m.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Iggy Drougge" <optimus(a)canit.se>
To: "Dan Linder" <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2001 8:50 PM
Subject: Re: HP 3000 No More
Dan Linder skrev:
>Just announced on /., the venerable HP3000 line will join HP
calculators
>in HP's new "we don't want to do cool
stuff anymore" business
model.
You're forgetting that PA-RISC is also in the same position. It's
called
"legacy", isn't it?
>Well, maybe that's harsh. But it is still another sad day for
computing.
Especially since we were supposed to be migrating our system from a
IBM 390 to the HP3000.
I guess a year of planning and vendor selection is out the window.
5:39 p.m.
You're forgetting that PA-RISC is also in the same
position. It's
called "legacy", isn't it?
Feh. We have two PA-RISC boxen in the server room. I'm sure the IT
director would be very upset if that happened, considering they're barely
three years old at the most.
--
----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ --
Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser(a)stockholm.ptloma.edu
-- The things which hurt, instruct. -- Benjamin Franklin ----------------------
15 Nov
15 Nov
6:39 p.m.
Cameron Kaiser skrev:
> You're forgetting that PA-RISC is also in the
same position. It's
> called "legacy", isn't it?
Feh. We have two PA-RISC boxen in the server room.
I'm sure the IT
director would be very upset if that happened, considering they're barely
three years old at the most.
HP have been cooperating with Intel for years. PA-RISC is a dead end,
unfortunately. So is Alpha. HP and Compaq are suddenly friends.
Now, if HP3000 (and presumably MPE) is dead, I wouldn't be surprised to see a
similar statement about VMS very soon.
BTW, isn't it strange that the new ComHPaq aren't putting VMS forth as a
migration alternative?
--
En ligne avec Thor 2.6a.
G? med i SUGA, Swedish Usergroup of Amiga!
WWW: http://swedish.usergroup.amiga.tm/
BBS: 08-6582572, telnet://sua.ath.cx:42512
17 Nov
17 Nov
9:50 a.m.
New subject: HP 3000 No More (legacy)
Re:
PA-RISC is dead/dying ... HP has said so. IA-64 killed it.
Yes, we know that some new systems (for HP 9000 *and* HP 3000) are coming
out in the next couple of years. Some will be based on their high-end
PA-RISC 8800 "chip" (two 8700 CPUs on a single die, with a big cache),
but...that's it, there's nothing in the pipeline after a few years from now.
(Indeed, PA-RISC was originally scheduled to be dead by now, but it had to
be extended due to the lateness of IA-64.)
Do I like this? Nope. But, it's as much "legacy" as Z80, 68000, and
(probably) all x86 chips.
Stan Sieler sieler(a)allegro.com
www.allegro.com/sieler/wanted/index.html www.allegro.com/sieler
You're
forgetting that PA-RISC is also in the same position. It's
called "legacy", isn't it?
Feh. We have two PA-RISC boxen in the server room. I'm sure the IT
director would be very upset if that happened, considering they're barely
three years old at the most. 
10:28 p.m.
New subject: Card punch at Boeing socal auction 11/27
Couple items that might interest someone else from the Boeing, Long Beach
CA 11/27 sealed bid auction flyer;
3M model 948 IBM card encoder
IBM model 519 IBM card reproducing punch
IBM model 3525, 3505 IBM cardreaders
Email me and I can tell you a bit more, but I don't plan to bid on anything
as yet.
17 Nov
17 Nov
9:47 a.m.
Re:
Mike Kenzie writes:
Especially since we were supposed to be migrating our
system from a
IBM 390 to the HP3000.
I guess a year of planning and vendor selection is out the window.
So? What was the projected lifespan of the 3000 you were going
to migrate to? 5 years? 7? Then *go ahead*...any 3000 you get today
will run that long, no problem ... and it will do it better and cheaper
and more reliably than many other choices.
OTOH, if you were choosing a platform that would be around for 10+ years,
well ... I don't think any vendor has made that kind of promise!
(Indeed, how many have promised *as of today* that their platform *will*
be here in 5 years? HP has with the 3000 :)
However, with that kind of initial condition, I think there are only two
choices: Linux and Windows. I wouldn't want to bet on the various other
Unix-like vendors to survive 10+ years. (Oh, I think most will, although
probably not HP-UX or SGI's OS, but...do I want to bet on it?)
Stan Sieler sieler(a)allegro.com
www.allegro.com/sieler/wanted/index.html www.allegro.com/sieler
14 Nov
14 Nov
3:52 p.m.
When did HP stop making calculators??? I learned how to program on a
HP-25 way back I was a youngster....RPN drove me crazy!
-Chandra
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org
[mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Dan Linder
Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2001 12:06 PM
To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org
Subject: HP 3000 No More
hey list-
Just announced on /., the venerable HP3000 line will join HP calculators
in HP's new "we don't want to do cool stuff anymore" business model.
Well, maybe that's harsh. But it is still another sad day for
computing.
- Dan
--
Dan Linder / dlinder @ uiuc.edu
Graduate Student, College of Engineering, Dept. of Computer Science
- Dept. of Computer Science Teaching Assistant
- DRES Computer Accessibility Researcher
4:41 p.m.
HP recently laid off all of their graphing calculator devision. I am
uncertain as to whether they have killed off the rest of their calculator
department, if so, I know of a number of RPN users who will be desperatly
searching for a replacement, although they really wont need one until 20
years down the road when their existing calculators fail.
Zach
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chandra Bajpai" <cbajpai(a)mediaone.net>
To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2001 9:52 PM
Subject: RE: HP 3000 No More
When did HP stop making calculators??? I learned how
to program on a
HP-25 way back I was a youngster....RPN drove me crazy!
-Chandra
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org
[mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Dan Linder
Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2001 12:06 PM
To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org
Subject: HP 3000 No More
hey list-
Just announced on /., the venerable HP3000 line will join HP calculators
in HP's new "we don't want to do cool stuff anymore" business model.
Well, maybe that's harsh. But it is still another sad day for
computing.
- Dan
--
Dan Linder / dlinder @ uiuc.edu
Graduate Student, College of Engineering, Dept. of Computer Science
- Dept. of Computer Science Teaching Assistant
- DRES Computer Accessibility Researcher
15 Nov
15 Nov
12:55 p.m.
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11:36 p.m.
On Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 12:00:57AM -0500, John Allain wrote:
The HP200LX is very much alive and kicking. There exists the hplx
mailing list which shows quite an active userbase for the little
palmtop. And by the way, I'm really like my HP200LX ;-)
Regards,
Alex.
--
q: If you were young again, would you start writing TeX again or would
you use Microsoft Word, or another word processor?
a: I hope to die before I *have* to use Microsoft Word.
-- Harald Koenig <koenig(a)tat.physik.uni-tuebingen.de> asking Donald E. Knuth
No, I am not
happy about this.
Is the 200LX etc series now dead?
8284
days inactive
8287
days old
21 comments
17 participants
participants (17)
-
allain＠panix.com -
als＠thangorodrim.de -
ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
cbajpai＠mediaone.net -
cmurillo＠emtelsa.multi.net.co -
cmurillo＠multi.net.co -
Diff＠Mac.com -
dittman＠dittman.net -
dlinder＠uiuc.edu -
emu＠ecubics.com -
healyzh＠aracnet.com -
KenzieM＠sympatico.ca -
mikeford＠socal.rr.com -
optimus＠canit.se -
sieler＠allegro.com -
spectre＠stockholm.ptloma.edu -
vance＠ikickass.org