12 Oct
2000
12 Oct
'00
9:17 p.m.
This one is truly in the "For what it's worth" department.
Following the recent flamewar between Mr. Ismail and R.D. Davis, I
forwarded a (supposedly private) note with my concerns about it to the DNS
provider for the domain siconic.com (psyber.com). I did this because many
ISP's have explicit prohibitions in their terms of service against exactly
the kind of crap that was going down.
Apparently, the tech person for psyber and Mr. Ismail are on pretty good
terms. I got the attached blurb this evening.
If anyone on the list had any doubts as to what appears to be Mr. Ismail's
true nature, I suspect they will now be removed.
Yes, I've filter-filed the entire 'siconic.com' domain out of my system.
I'm completely fed up with the temper tantrums of its owner.
Attachment follows. In the interests of keeping the list on-topic, there
will be no further posts from me on this subject.
-=-=- <snip> -=-=-
Delivered-To: kyrrin(a)mail-sttl.uswest.net
Delivered-To: alias-bluefeathertech.com-kyrrin(a)bluefeathertech.com
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 22:49:04 -0700
From: "Sellam Ismail" <dastar(a)siconic.com>
To: "Bruce Lane" <kyrrin(a)bluefeathertech.com>
Subject: Re: Terms of Service query
Reply-to: dastar(a)siconic.com
Priority: normal
X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c)
Bruce,
You, too, are an ass.
Mind your own business and leave my ex-ISP folks alone. They have
better things to worry about other than your inane and childish whining.
On 11 Oct 2000, at 22:53, Bruce Lane wrote:
Danger
Hi, Ted,
The owner of a domain you host (siconic.com/Sellam Ismail) has, in the
past 24 or so hours, been getting very abusive in both language and tone to
one of the users of a mailing list I'm a member of. The only thing the
other user did was to venture an opinion which Mr. Ismail apparently (and
violently) disagreed with.
The other listmember, one R.D. Davis, has been utterly polite, and calm of
tone, despite suggestions by Mr. Ismail to, among other things "shut the
fuck up." I saw absolutely no reason why Mr. Davis's opinion should warrant
such a violent temper tantrum on Mr. Ismail's part.
Now, being an experienced SysAdmin and domain owner myself, I would
ordninarily ignore this little bit of childish ranting and move on.
However, Mr. Ismail has not been particularly polite to me on other
occasions, so I'm beginning to wonder if this is a pattern with him:
Specifically, insulting the crap out of anyone that disagrees with him.
My question: Many ISPs have, in their Terms of Service, prohibitions
against violent flaming. Is psyber.com one of them? If so, would you like
me to send you copies of the mailing list postings in question? Perhaps so
you can have some basis to remind Mr. Ismail that he's not the only one on
the Internet? ;-)
If not, just say so and I'll let it go. Thanks in advance.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies
http://www.bluefeathertech.com // E-mail: kyrrin(a)bluefeathertech.com
Amateur Radio: WD6EOS since Dec. '77 (Extra class as of June-2K)
"I'll get a life when someone demonstrates to me that it would be
superior to what I have now..." (Gym Z. Quirk, aka Taki Kogoma).
Sellam International Man of Intrigue and
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
Looking for a six in a pile of nines...
Coming soon: VCF 4.0!
VCF East: Planning in Progress
See http://www.vintage.org for details!
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies
http://www.bluefeathertech.com // E-mail: kyrrin(a)bluefeathertech.com
Amateur Radio: WD6EOS since Dec. '77 (Extra class as of June-2K)
"I'll get a life when someone demonstrates to me that it would be
superior to what I have now..." (Gym Z. Quirk, aka Taki Kogoma).
12 Oct
12 Oct
8:59 p.m.
On Thu, 12 Oct 2000, Bruce Lane wrote:
This one is truly in the "For what it's
worth" department.
Um, perhaps "further proof of your being an obnoxious twit"?
I especially like his sig...
"I'll get a life when someone demonstrates to
me that it would be
superior to what I have now..." (Gym Z. Quirk, aka Taki Kogoma).
What a sad little man :(
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
13 Oct
13 Oct
8:29 a.m.
On Thu, 12 Oct 2000, Bruce Lane wrote:
And I wouldn't exactly characterize the original post as
polite, which referred to the "idiot who wrote the book on collecting
computers". I can only assume this referred to Kevin Stumpf who is
a sometime contributer to the list and has gone to great lengths to
preserve old computers, and started many years before it became
trendy.
I would also question the disparaging remarks vis-a -vis VCF. Many
of us on the list view the success of VCF and now VCE with a
pride in Sellams accomplishment, having taken part in it's inception
and development thru discussions on the cc m-l.
Many of us have been flayed by Sellams volitile personality. He
only gave voice to my own indignation. While not giving him carte
blanche, ( I would flame just him as heavily should the situation
arise), it should be remembered that PROFANEity is simply a
religio-cultural view. Remember Lenny Bruce ? From my point of
view "bomb them back to the stone age" is profanity of the highest
order and there are many others accepted in everyday exchanges.
To each his own.
ciao larry
Reply to:
lgwalker(a)look.ca
This one is truly in the "For what it's
worth" department.
Um, perhaps "further proof of your being an obnoxious twit"?
I especially like his sig...
"I'll get a life when someone
demonstrates to me that it would be
superior to what I have now..." (Gym Z. Quirk, aka Taki Kogoma).
What a sad little man :(
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer
Festival
----------------------------------------------------------------------
-------- International Man of Intrigue and Danger
http://www.vintage.org
1:15 p.m.
Not that I want to get wedged into the moddle of this one, but...
On Fri, 13 Oct 2000, Lawrence Walker wrote:
And I
wouldn't exactly characterize the original post as
polite, which referred to the "idiot who wrote the book on collecting
computers". I can only assume this referred to Kevin Stumpf who is
a sometime contributer to the list and has gone to great lengths to
preserve old computers, and started many years before it became
trendy.
Well, while not being a mind reader one could also "assume" that the
reference could have been to Dr. Haddock who published a book on the topic
some time prior to Kevin's book... FWIW
I would also question the disparaging remarks vis-a
-vis VCF. Many
of us on the list view the success of VCF and now VCE with a
pride in Sellams accomplishment, having taken part in it's inception
and development thru discussions on the cc m-l.
For my part, I'm greatful that someone had the 'brass monkeys' to take on
creating and producing something like VCF. It was likely inevitable that
somewhere there would be a renaissance in computing and peoples interest
would spike along with the (real or preceived) value of the relative gear.
To try to assign (credit|blame) to any given event is perhaps an academic
exercise similar to defining with any certanty what machine(s) actually
'started' the (personal|home) computer revolution. (this being
significantly different from the 'PC' 'revolution')
Many of us have been flayed by Sellams volitile
personality. He
only gave voice to my own indignation. While not giving him carte
blanche, ( I would flame just him as heavily should the situation
arise), it should be remembered that PROFANEity is simply a
religio-cultural view. Remember Lenny Bruce ? From my point of
view "bomb them back to the stone age" is profanity of the highest
order and there are many others accepted in everyday exchanges.
You mean a flameproof suit is not in *everyones* wardrobe?
To each his own.
To borrow an almost appropriate thought:
Don't take life too seriously. It is after all just a game...
...and no body makes it out alive.
--never can remember who said that originally. Although I have used it on
radio shows from time to time. B^}
-jim
---
jimw(a)computergarage.org || jimw(a)agora.rdrop.com
The Computer Garage - http://www.computergarage.org
Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174
5:58 p.m.
> Many of us have been flayed by Sellams volitile
personality. He
> only gave voice to my own indignation. While not giving him carte
> blanche, ( I would flame just him as heavily should the situation
> arise), it should be remembered that PROFANEity is simply a
> religio-cultural view. Remember Lenny Bruce ? From my point of
> view "bomb them back to the stone age" is profanity of the highest
> order and there are many others accepted in everyday exchanges.
"Bomb them back to the stone age"? Hmm, that quote usually refers to
General Curtis LeMay. I suppose, being a LeMay, I should take offense
at that crack.
Or I could try to act like a civilised being, and let it be. I suggest
the rest of you do the same.
-Lawrence LeMay
7:38 p.m.
On Fri, 13 Oct 2000, Lawrence LeMay wrote:
"Bomb them back to the stone age"? Hmm, that
quote usually refers to
General Curtis LeMay. I suppose, being a LeMay, I should take offense
at that crack.
While I don't know what context that quote was used in, ir who it was
about, it sounds like a rather neat quote! Is it for some reason now
considered "politically incorrect"? If so, I like it all the more!
:-)
[quickly donning asbestos suit!]
Or I could try to act like a civilised being, and let
it be. I suggest
the rest of you do the same.
That sounds like good advice. I shall try to avoid any flames or
flamebait for a while. There are old systems to be collected and
restored, and I feel bad about wasting time and bandwidth with
off-topic nonsense, when that time could have been used by us all
for more productive purposes (e.g. - restoring older systems and
otherwise hacking them)
--
Copyright (C) 2000 R. D. Davis "The best way to gain a true understanding of
All Rights Reserved Wile E. Coyote on the Roadrunner cartoons is to
rdd(a)perqlogic.com 410-744-4900 fly, head-first, off a horse into something like
http://www.perqlogic.com/rdd a fence or a tree; trust me, this works." --RDD
14 Oct
14 Oct
10:32 a.m.
On Sat, 14 Oct 2000, R. D. Davis wrote:
On Fri, 13 Oct 2000, Lawrence LeMay wrote:
It was with reference to the North Vietnamese.
- don
"Bomb them back to the stone age"? Hmm,
that quote usually refers to
General Curtis LeMay. I suppose, being a LeMay, I should take offense
at that crack.
While I don't know what context that quote was used in, ir who it was
about, it sounds like a rather neat quote! Is it for some reason now
considered "politically incorrect"? If so, I like it all the more!
:-) [quickly donning asbestos suit!]
Or I could try to act like a civilised being, and
let it be. I suggest
the rest of you do the same.
That sounds like good advice. I shall try to avoid any flames or
flamebait for a while. There are old systems to be collected and
restored, and I feel bad about wasting time and bandwidth with
off-topic nonsense, when that time could have been used by us all
for more productive purposes (e.g. - restoring older systems and
otherwise hacking them)
--
Copyright (C) 2000 R. D. Davis "The best way to gain a true understanding of
All Rights Reserved Wile E. Coyote on the Roadrunner cartoons is to
rdd(a)perqlogic.com 410-744-4900 fly, head-first, off a horse into something like
http://www.perqlogic.com/rdd a fence or a tree; trust me, this works." --RDD
13 Oct
13 Oct
8:42 p.m.
At 09:58 PM 10/13/00 -0500, Lawrence LeMay wrote:
Actually it's a quote from General LeMay and refers to the North
Vietnamese.
Joe
> Many of
us have been flayed by Sellams volitile personality. He
> only gave voice to my own indignation. While not giving him carte
> blanche, ( I would flame just him as heavily should the situation
> arise), it should be remembered that PROFANEity is simply a
> religio-cultural view. Remember Lenny Bruce ? From my point of
> view "bomb them back to the stone age" is profanity of the highest
> order and there are many others accepted in everyday exchanges.
"Bomb them back to the stone age"? Hmm, that quote usually refers to
General Curtis LeMay. I suppose, being a LeMay, I should take offense
at that crack.
Or I could try to act like a civilised being, and let it be. I suggest
the rest of you do the same.
-Lawrence LeMay
10:23 p.m.
New subject: For the record... (was: True Colors)
At 13:29 13-10-2000 -0400, L. Walker wrote:
And I wouldn't exactly characterize the original
post as
polite, which referred to the "idiot who wrote the book on collecting
computers". I can only assume this referred to Kevin Stumpf who is
a sometime contributer to the list and has gone to great lengths to
preserve old computers, and started many years before it became
trendy.
<snip>
I should actually have clarified my own position. I do NOT agree with R.D.
Davis that the VCF, or similar events, are responsible for the decline of
Interesting Stuff at the ham swap meets, nor the inflated prices one
sometimes sees for such gear when it does show up. That whole idea seems
silly to me.
As for Kevin Stumpf's book on collecting, I'm not prepared to either
condemn it or praise it at this point because I've not read it.
I see the VCF events themselves as a solid and worthwhile contribution to
the history of computing technology. I thought it was a good idea when
Sellam first mentioned it to me all those years ago at Quinntronics, and I
said as much back then: I still think they're a good idea in and of
themselves.
The fact that I disagree with the mannerisms and online conduct of VCF's
creator is irrelevant (at least to me). ;-)
The "decline" mentioned earlier is, I believe, only one symptom of a much
deeper set of issues that I would choose not to go into on the list because
(a), I can get pretty wordy with a topic like that; And (b), I'm not
certain how on-topic it would be for the list overall.
Many of us have been flayed by Sellams volitile
personality. He
only gave voice to my own indignation. While not giving him cart...
<snip>
I know I said I wouldn't get back into this, but I feel compelled to say
this much.
I will agree with your first statement (that many of us have been 'flayed'
as it were). What I cannot understand is why Sellam feels such a need to
enroll the entire list in his (often violent) disagreements with others.
There's absolutely NOTHING wrong with disagreeing with someone... Lord
knows I've done it plenty of times, others have disagreed with me, and I'd
actually be pretty darn worried if people started agreeing with each other
ALL the time!
However, splattering one's spleen all over a (relatively) public mailing
list that is designed to benefit ALL participants is not something that I
can ever agree with. It's just plain unprofessional. THAT's what prompted
me to ask his ISP if they wanted to get involved.
Is there anyone on the list who DOESN'T think that such arguments are best
settled via private E-mail? Even if the eventual "settlement" takes the
form of one party blocking the other's messages? (as I already have).
I will admit... I'm still chuckling over the fact that he took the quote I
have in my signature block so very seriously. Thanks, Sellam, for a good
laugh.
Ok... that's it from me on this topic. Definitely! I have lots of other
things to worry about. Like getting ready for my Cancun trip at the end of
next week. Hardly computing-related, but bound to be fun in any case.
Keep the peace(es).
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies
http://www.bluefeathertech.com // E-mail: kyrrin(a)bluefeathertech.com
Amateur Radio: WD6EOS since Dec. '77 (Extra class as of June-2K)
"I'll get a life when someone demonstrates to me that it would be
superior to what I have now..." (Gym Z. Quirk, aka Taki Kogoma).
11:52 p.m.
New subject: For the record... (was: True Colors)
On Sat, 14 Oct 2000, Bruce Lane wrote:
I will agree with your first statement (that many of
us have
been 'flayed' as it were). What I cannot understand is why Sellam
feels such a need to enroll the entire list in his (often violent)
disagreements with others.
It's really bizarre that you would make this complaint, since in all the
times I've sent you off-list replies to prevent turning the list into a
war zone, you've gone ahead and posted my private messages back to the
list--breaking all sorts of rules on netiquette, which you claim to hold
so highly. How do you explain this?
I think a big part of the problem is that when I point out how some person
has their head up their ass, other people take it upon themselves to get
upset. Bruce, you have your head up your ass. Who's turn is it now to be
upset?
Is there anyone on the list who DOESN'T think
that such
arguments are best settled via private E-mail? Even if the eventual
Apparently you, as I've explained above.
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
8683
days inactive
8684
days old
9 comments
8 participants
participants (8)
-
donm＠cts.com -
foo＠siconic.com -
jimw＠agora.rdrop.com -
kyrrin＠bluefeathertech.com -
lemay＠cs.umn.edu -
lgwalker＠look.ca -
rdd＠smart.net -
rigdonj＠intellistar.net