29 Jun
2001
29 Jun
'01
10:44 a.m.
So now that OpenVMS 7.3 for VAX is out I'm hoping that the Montagar folks
will do an updated VMS Media disk. If anyone has any contacts with the
group that does that I would really like to help out. I'm pretty sure that
we could build a pretty painless and much better organized disk than the
7.2 disk is.
But that isn't really the point of this message. The point was made on a
previous note about a ConDist set that it had VMS 6.0 which wasn't a "good"
version of VMS because it was fairly buggy. That made me wonder if we could
come to a concensus on what "good" VMS releases were out there?
I happen to like VMS 5.5-2H4 which was, I believe, the last release in the
5.x line and thus pretty darn stable. It runs on pretty much every VAX and
uses the "Modern" license management facility that the Hobbyiest licenses
conform to. There is also a lot of software that runs on "5.5 and above" so
that is good too. Finally its the last release that calls itself VAX VMS
(rather than OpenVMS) which gives it a wonderful classic like feel.
Then there is VMS 6.x, of which I've got images for 6.1 and 6.2 (no 6.0 but
I opted to pass on the ConDist as well). Is there a release after 6.2 that
sits between it and the 7.x release? Given the shortness between 7.0 and
7.1 I'm going to guess that 7.0 had some serious issues and 7.2 which is
running on the VLC cluster seems quite stable. (using a patched UCX).
Thoughts? What was the best V4.x release? V3? Does anyone have VMS 1.x and
if so what processors does it support? As I recall on the 780 at school it
looked a _lot_ like RSX-11M+ :-)
--Chuck
29 Jun
29 Jun
11:58 a.m.
So now that OpenVMS 7.3 for VAX is out I'm hoping
that the Montagar folks
will do an updated VMS Media disk. If anyone has any contacts with the
group that does that I would really like to help out. I'm pretty sure that
we could build a pretty painless and much better organized disk than the
7.2 disk is.
I know David Cathey. I'll ask him what the plan is for the next version.
But that isn't really the point of this message.
The point was made on a
previous note about a ConDist set that it had VMS 6.0 which wasn't a "good"
version of VMS because it was fairly buggy. That made me wonder if we could
come to a concensus on what "good" VMS releases were out there?
I'd say the good ones are the ones which you can get reasonable prior version
support for the V5.x and later versions. For the earlier versions, probably
the last version in the series, which any MUPs loaded.
I happen to like VMS 5.5-2H4 which was, I believe, the
last release in the
5.x line and thus pretty darn stable. It runs on pretty much every VAX and
uses the "Modern" license management facility that the Hobbyiest licenses
conform to. There is also a lot of software that runs on "5.5 and above" so
that is good too. Finally its the last release that calls itself VAX VMS
(rather than OpenVMS) which gives it a wonderful classic like feel.
Either V5.5-2 or -2H4. The "H" releases were mostly just extra hardware
support.
Then there is VMS 6.x, of which I've got images
for 6.1 and 6.2 (no 6.0 but
I opted to pass on the ConDist as well). Is there a release after 6.2 that
sits between it and the 7.x release? Given the shortness between 7.0 and
7.1 I'm going to guess that 7.0 had some serious issues and 7.2 which is
running on the VLC cluster seems quite stable. (using a patched UCX).
There wasn't a follow-up to V6.2 except for "H" releases. For V7.x, 7.2
is very stable. I'm still testing V7.3.
Thoughts? What was the best V4.x release? V3? Does
anyone have VMS 1.x and
if so what processors does it support? As I recall on the 780 at school it
looked a _lot_ like RSX-11M+ :-)
The first releases of VMS had a lot of compatibility-mode programs.
For anyone that's interested, here's the versions that Compaq is still offering
on-line patches:
ncftp /vms/vax > dir
drwxr-xr-x 7 0 0 512 Feb 29 2000 v5.0
drwxr-xr-x 6 0 0 512 Feb 29 2000 v5.0-1
drwxr-xr-x 6 0 0 512 Feb 29 2000 v5.0-2
drwxr-xr-x 8 0 0 512 Feb 29 2000 v5.1
drwxr-xr-x 7 0 0 512 Feb 29 2000 v5.1-1
drwxr-xr-x 3 0 0 512 Feb 28 2000 v5.1-b
drwxr-xr-x 9 0 0 1024 Feb 29 2000 v5.2
drwxr-xr-x 8 0 0 1024 Feb 29 2000 v5.2-1
drwxr-xr-x 2 0 0 512 Feb 29 2000 v5.2-2hf
drwxr-xr-x 16 0 0 1024 Feb 29 2000 v5.3
drwxr-xr-x 12 0 0 1024 Feb 29 2000 v5.3-1
drwxr-xr-x 12 0 0 1024 Feb 29 2000 v5.3-2
drwxr-xr-x 29 0 0 1536 Feb 29 2000 v5.4
drwxr-xr-x 26 0 0 2048 Feb 29 2000 v5.4-1
drwxr-xr-x 26 0 0 2048 Feb 29 2000 v5.4-2
drwxr-xr-x 29 0 0 2048 Feb 29 2000 v5.4-3
drwxr-xr-x 49 0 0 3584 Feb 29 2000 v5.5
drwxr-xr-x 46 0 0 3584 Feb 29 2000 v5.5-1
drwxr-xr-x 81 0 0 12800 Jun 28 00:32 v5.5-2
drwxr-xr-x 58 0 0 11776 Jun 28 00:32 v5.5-2h4
drwxr-xr-x 3 0 0 512 Mar 29 1999 v5.5-2-h4
drwxr-xr-x 18 0 0 5632 Jun 28 00:32 v5.5-2hf
drwxr-xr-x 11 0 0 1024 Jun 28 00:32 v5.5-2hw
drwxr-xr-x 70 0 0 9216 Oct 25 2000 v6.0
drwxr-xr-x 91 0 0 15360 Jun 28 00:32 v6.1
drwxr-xr-x 3 0 0 512 Feb 29 2000 v6.1-1h1
drwxr-xr-x 3 0 0 512 Feb 29 2000 v6.1-1h2
drwxr-xr-x 75 0 0 16384 Jun 28 05:31 v6.2
drwxr-xr-x 15 0 0 1024 Jun 28 00:32 v6.2-0hf
drwxr-xr-x 3 0 0 512 Feb 29 2000 v6.2-1h1
drwxr-xr-x 3 0 0 512 Feb 29 2000 v6.2-1h2
drwxr-xr-x 3 0 0 512 Feb 10 1999 v6.2-1h3
drwxr-xr-x 56 0 0 8704 Jun 28 00:32 v7.0
drwxr-xr-x 50 0 0 10752 Jun 28 05:31 v7.1
drwxr-xr-x 27 0 0 4096 Jun 28 05:31 v7.2
drwxr-xr-x 3 0 0 512 Jul 11 2000 v7.2-1
drwxr-xr-x 3 0 0 512 May 9 22:31 v7.2-2
drwxr-xr-x 3 0 0 512 Jun 28 00:33 v7.3
ncftp /vms/axp > dir
drwxr-xr-x 9 0 0 512 Feb 29 2000 v1.0
drwxr-xr-x 24 0 0 2560 Feb 29 2000 v1.5
drwxr-xr-x 13 0 0 2048 Feb 29 2000 v1.5-1h1
drwxr-xr-x 10 0 0 512 Feb 29 2000 v6.0
drwxr-xr-x 79 0 0 17920 Jan 24 01:30 v6.1
drwxr-xr-x 39 0 0 15360 Jan 24 01:30 v6.1-1h1
drwxr-xr-x 39 0 0 15360 Jan 24 01:30 v6.1-1h2
drwxr-xr-x 5 0 0 512 Feb 29 2000 v6.1-1h3
drwxr-xr-x 80 0 0 20992 Jun 28 00:33 v6.2
drwxr-xr-x 3 0 0 512 May 1 22:30 v6.2-1
drwxr-xr-x 44 0 0 17920 Jun 28 00:33 v6.2-1h1
drwxr-xr-x 43 0 0 17408 Jun 28 00:33 v6.2-1h2
drwxr-xr-x 42 0 0 17408 Jun 28 00:33 v6.2-1h3
drwxr-xr-x 61 0 0 10752 Jun 28 00:33 v7.0
drwxr-xr-x 57 0 0 13824 Jun 28 00:33 v7.1
drwxr-xr-x 46 0 0 13312 Jun 28 00:33 v7.1-1h1
drwxr-xr-x 40 0 0 12288 Jun 28 00:33 v7.1-1h2
drwxr-xr-x 9 0 0 11776 Jun 18 22:30 v7.1-2
drwxr-xr-x 38 0 0 8192 Jun 28 00:33 v7.2
drwxr-xr-x 22 0 0 12800 Jun 28 02:30 v7.2-1
drwxr-xr-x 14 0 0 10752 Jun 29 00:31 v7.2-1h1
drwxr-xr-x 4 0 0 512 May 9 01:31 v7.2-2
drwxr-xr-x 6 0 0 1536 Jun 28 02:31 v7.3
These were pulled from ftp.service.digital.com using a DSNLINK
account. Note that V7.2-1 and -2 were not actually released for
the VAX. For the V7.x-y releases, the -y revisions are only
released for the Alpha.
--
Eric Dittman
dittman(a)dittman.net
12:46 p.m.
But that isn't really the point of this message.
The point was made on a
previous note about a ConDist set that it had VMS 6.0 which wasn't a "good"
version of VMS because it was fairly buggy. That made me wonder if we could
come to a concensus on what "good" VMS releases were out there?
Currently all my VAXen are at V7.2 and I'm moving my Alpha's to V7.2-1H1
(with plans to move to V7.2-2 once it's available). Obviously part of what
it takes to have a "good" release is to have all the patches that you can
applied, and to keep current with what patches are available. Compaq has a
mailing list you can join for this. Trust me it's worth it. What I've not
been able to find is a list of recommended patches for specific release,
which is unfortunate as that would save a person a lot of trouble.
Once V7.3-1 is out, then I'll consider moving past V7.2-x.
I happen to like VMS 5.5-2H4 which was, I believe, the
last release in the
5.x line and thus pretty darn stable. It runs on pretty much every VAX and
uses the "Modern" license management facility that the Hobbyiest licenses
conform to. There is also a lot of software that runs on "5.5 and above" so
that is good too. Finally its the last release that calls itself VAX VMS
(rather than OpenVMS) which gives it a wonderful classic like feel.
One question. Where on earth did you get V5.5-2H4? I'm not 100% sure you
can even get V5.5-2 out of the Hobbyist V1 CD (if you're lucky enough to
have it). At the moment I've got one VAXstation 3100 on V5.5, but want to
replace it with a VAXstation 4000/60 running V5.5-2 (or V5.5-2H4 if
possible). Isn't V5.5-2H4 the Y2k update?
Then there is VMS 6.x, of which I've got images
for 6.1 and 6.2 (no 6.0 but
I opted to pass on the ConDist as well). Is there a release after 6.2 that
sits between it and the 7.x release? Given the shortness between 7.0 and
7.1 I'm going to guess that 7.0 had some serious issues and 7.2 which is
running on the VLC cluster seems quite stable. (using a patched UCX).
There are definite advantages to V6.2 in that you can a mixed
verson/architecure cluster with one of the following V6.2, V7.1, and V7.2.
Based both on the documentation and my personal experience V5.5 and 7.2
can't be mixed in a cluster (very, very bad things happen when this is
attempted).
V7.0 = Avoid
V7.1-2/Alpha & V7.1/VAX = OK
V7.2-1H1/Alpha & V7.2/VAX = OK
V7.3 = To new for me to try and I'm a hobbyist!
Thoughts? What was the best V4.x release? V3? Does
anyone have VMS 1.x and
if so what processors does it support? As I recall on the 780 at school it
looked a _lot_ like RSX-11M+ :-)
Unless I'm mistaken V1 probably only supports the VAX-11/780, and through V3
I'd guess only the VAX-11/7xx family is supported (in fact I believe this is
probably true for early V4 releases).
Oh, and as for anyone having V1, the question is, not only does anyone have
it, does anyone have the doc's. There was a survey about a year ago, and
about the oldest anyone had was V2 or V3 of the Doc sets.
As for V4.x which is supported on a wider range of processors (including,
IIRC, some 3100's) the trick is getting it.
Something else to consider. If you're running a MicroVAX II then V7.2 is
where you stop. With a VAX-11/725 you stop at V5.1 (or maybe V5.1-1, with
the rest of the VAX-11/7xx family, the VAXft family and the MicroVAX I you
stop at V6.2. It appears that V7.3 won't be the final stopping point for
any systems, at least I've been unable to find such information in the V7.3
SPD.
Something else you might have figured out, the Alpha gets releases which roll
up all the patchs, the VAX doesn't anymore. In about 4-5 years it's safe to
assume that the Alpha will be in the same state, and that the Itanium
releases will be getting all the attention.
Zane
1:11 p.m.
One question. Where on earth did you get V5.5-2H4?
I'm not 100% sure you
can even get V5.5-2 out of the Hobbyist V1 CD (if you're lucky enough to
have it). At the moment I've got one VAXstation 3100 on V5.5, but want to
replace it with a VAXstation 4000/60 running V5.5-2 (or V5.5-2H4 if
possible). Isn't V5.5-2H4 the Y2k update?
I've got a pair of TK50's that have the 5.5-2H4 release on them. Not sure
where they came from.
As for V4.x which is supported on a wider range of
processors (including,
IIRC, some 3100's) the trick is getting it.
I've got several versions of 4.x on TK50.
Something else to consider. If you're running a
MicroVAX II then V7.2 is
where you stop. With a VAX-11/725 you stop at V5.1 (or maybe V5.1-1, with
the rest of the VAX-11/7xx family, the VAXft family and the MicroVAX I you
stop at V6.2. It appears that V7.3 won't be the final stopping point for
any systems, at least I've been unable to find such information in the V7.3
SPD.
That is very good info. If I ever get a MicroVAX I for da House I'll put
6.2 on it.
--Chuck
1:58 p.m.
I've got a pair of TK50's that have the
5.5-2H4 release on them. Not sure
where they came from.
Ah.
As for V4.x
which is supported on a wider range of processors (including,
IIRC, some 3100's) the trick is getting it.
I've got several versions of 4.x on TK50. That is very good info. If I ever get a MicroVAX I for
da House I'll put
6.2 on it.
Would it help if I admited I got it from the "OpenVMS Hobbyist FAQ"?
Although that specific info came out of the V7.2 SPD.
Zane
2:21 p.m.
I've got
several versions of 4.x on TK50.
IIRC, so do I. However, I suspect both of us have
access to a little more
DEC stuff than most people on the list (or even most interested in VAXen).
2:35 p.m.
At 10:21 PM 6/29/01 -0400, Jeff wrote:
What's the last version of VMS that runs
decently on a MV II? It's
been stated
that 7.2 still supports it, but is the machine really
up to that new of
a version?
7.2 will run on it. I personally prefer 5.5-2 as its modern enough to have
lots of support and ancient enough to still be VAX only :-)
--Chuck
11:11 p.m.
Something else
to consider. If you're running a MicroVAX II then V7.2 is
where you stop. With a VAX-11/725 you stop at V5.1 (or maybe V5.1-1, with
the rest of the VAX-11/7xx family, the VAXft family and the MicroVAX I you
stop at V6.2. It appears that V7.3 won't be the final stopping point for
any systems, at least I've been unable to find such information in the V7.3
SPD.
That is very good info. If I ever get a MicroVAX I for da House I'll put
6.2 on it.
--Chuck
1:35 p.m.
Currently all my VAXen are at V7.2 and I'm moving
my Alpha's to V7.2-1H1
(with plans to move to V7.2-2 once it's available). Obviously part of what
it takes to have a "good" release is to have all the patches that you can
applied, and to keep current with what patches are available. Compaq has a
mailing list you can join for this. Trust me it's worth it. What I've not
been able to find is a list of recommended patches for specific release,
which is unfortunate as that would save a person a lot of trouble.
That's why I like having a DSNLINK account. I can look at all the
patches and see the installation ratings and notes.
Once V7.3-1 is out, then I'll consider moving past
V7.2-x.
I've loaded V7.3 on the Charon VAX emulator, and it went pretty smooth,
but I'll not try to roll out V7.3 on the production VAX systems at work
until there's a good reason. For the Alphas I'm with you on waiting for
V7.3-1.
I happen to
like VMS 5.5-2H4 which was, I believe, the last release in the
5.x line and thus pretty darn stable. It runs on pretty much every VAX and
uses the "Modern" license management facility that the Hobbyiest licenses
conform to. There is also a lot of software that runs on "5.5 and above" so
that is good too. Finally its the last release that calls itself VAX VMS
(rather than OpenVMS) which gives it a wonderful classic like feel.
One question. Where on earth did you get V5.5-2H4? I'm not 100% sure you
can even get V5.5-2 out of the Hobbyist V1 CD (if you're lucky enough to
have it). At the moment I've got one VAXstation 3100 on V5.5, but want to
replace it with a VAXstation 4000/60 running V5.5-2 (or V5.5-2H4 if
possible). Isn't V5.5-2H4 the Y2k update? Then there is
VMS 6.x, of which I've got images for 6.1 and 6.2 (no 6.0 but
I opted to pass on the ConDist as well). Is there a release after 6.2 that
sits between it and the 7.x release? Given the shortness between 7.0 and
7.1 I'm going to guess that 7.0 had some serious issues and 7.2 which is
running on the VLC cluster seems quite stable. (using a patched UCX).
There are definite advantages to V6.2 in that you can a mixed
verson/architecure cluster with one of the following V6.2, V7.1, and V7.2.
Based both on the documentation and my personal experience V5.5 and 7.2
can't be mixed in a cluster (very, very bad things happen when this is
attempted).
V7.0 = Avoid
V7.1-2/Alpha & V7.1/VAX = OK
V7.2-1H1/Alpha & V7.2/VAX = OK
V7.3 = To new for me to try and I'm a hobbyist! Thoughts? What
was the best V4.x release? V3? Does anyone have VMS 1.x and
if so what processors does it support? As I recall on the 780 at school it
looked a _lot_ like RSX-11M+ :-)
Unless I'm mistaken V1 probably only supports the VAX-11/780, and through V3
I'd guess only the VAX-11/7xx family is supported (in fact I believe this is
probably true for early V4 releases).
Oh, and as for anyone having V1, the question is, not only does anyone have
it, does anyone have the doc's. There was a survey about a year ago, and
about the oldest anyone had was V2 or V3 of the Doc sets.
As for V4.x which is supported on a wider range of processors (including,
IIRC, some 3100's) the trick is getting it. Something else to consider. If you're running a
MicroVAX II then V7.2 is
where you stop. With a VAX-11/725 you stop at V5.1 (or maybe V5.1-1, with
the rest of the VAX-11/7xx family, the VAXft family and the MicroVAX I you
stop at V6.2. It appears that V7.3 won't be the final stopping point for
any systems, at least I've been unable to find such information in the V7.3
SPD.
V7.3 seems to have support for the MicroVAX II:
$ write sys$output f$getsyi("HW_NAME")
MicroVAX II
$ write sys$output f$getsyi("VERSION")
V7.3
Check the SPD for supported systems:
http://www.compaq.com/info/SP2501/SP2501PF.PDF
They list the MicroVAX II in both the supported and unsupported
list. I'm curious now as to whether which list is correct. I
guess I'll ask on comp.os.vms.
V7.3 is the last version for quite a few VAX systems. (listed
in the SPD).
--
Eric Dittman
dittman(a)dittman.net
2:30 p.m.
Once V7.3-1 is
out, then I'll consider moving past V7.2-x.
I've loaded V7.3 on the Charon VAX emulator, and it went pretty smooth,
but I'll not try to roll out V7.3 on the production VAX systems at work
until there's a good reason. For the Alphas I'm with you on waiting for
V7.3-1. I'm pretty sure I have V5.5-2 on CD. I seem to
remember V5.5-2H4 was
only shipped with processors that needed the support, since the "H"
releases are hardware releases, not patch releases.
IIRC, V5.5-2 is on the Hobbyist V1 CD, so if I'm lucky I'll be able to load
that on the VAXstation 4000/60 I want to run it on. BTW, I know in the case
of V7.2-1 you can no longer buy it, you have to buy V7.2-1H1.
When Tim Stark's VAX emulation is ready I want to
get a copy of V1.x just to
play with it, since it's been a long time since I've seen it running.
Hmmm... I'd not thought about that! I was just looking forward to having
something that Hobbyists can run that should support Ethernet! I wonder if
Tim Shoppa or Montagar have old versions of VMS.
V7.3 seems to have support for the MicroVAX II:
$ write sys$output f$getsyi("HW_NAME")
MicroVAX II
$ write sys$output f$getsyi("VERSION")
V7.3
There is a difference between running on the hardware, and being supported
on it. It will run on a few platforms that it's never been supported on.
V7.3 is the last version for quite a few VAX systems.
(listed
in the SPD).
Dang, I'll have to go back through it. I obviously missed it. I wish it
was still available as text or html. That PDF is a pain when you're used to
reading it as text (yeah, I know I'm the one always singing Adobe Acrobats
praise).
Zane
2:58 p.m.
I'm pretty
sure I have V5.5-2 on CD. I seem to remember V5.5-2H4 was
only shipped with processors that needed the support, since the "H"
releases are hardware releases, not patch releases.
IIRC, V5.5-2 is on the Hobbyist V1 CD, so if I'm lucky I'll be able to load
that on the VAXstation 4000/60 I want to run it on. BTW, I know in the case
of V7.2-1 you can no longer buy it, you have to buy V7.2-1H1. When Tim
Stark's VAX emulation is ready I want to get a copy of V1.x just to
play with it, since it's been a long time since I've seen it running.
Hmmm... I'd not thought about that! I was just looking forward to having
something that Hobbyists can run that should support Ethernet! I wonder if
Tim Shoppa or Montagar have old versions of VMS. V7.3 seems to
have support for the MicroVAX II:
$ write sys$output f$getsyi("HW_NAME")
MicroVAX II
$ write sys$output f$getsyi("VERSION")
V7.3
There is a difference between running on the hardware, and being supported
on it. It will run on a few platforms that it's never been supported on. V7.3 is the
last version for quite a few VAX systems. (listed
in the SPD).
Dang, I'll have to go back through it. I obviously missed it. I wish it
was still available as text or html. That PDF is a pain when you're used to
reading it as text (yeah, I know I'm the one always singing Adobe Acrobats
praise).
3:18 p.m.
But that's really a problem, since -1H1 is just -1
with support for newer
processors. If it was like the V7.1-x releases for the Alpha, it was
probably cheaper.
It's definitly a problem. However, V7.2-1 is listed as only available
internally. Yes, the V7.2-1H1 release was nice and cheap :^) OTOH, it runs
on my PWS 433au quite nicely and required a lot less patches than V7.2-1
would have, so I'm happy :^)
I'm looking forward to a VAX emulator with
Ethernet support, too.
That is still my primary interest in Tim's version.
There is also work being done on simh to add VAX support, however, I don't
think much is being done towards adding Ethernet support if past emulators
are any indication. However, with Bob Supnik, there is a definite chance of
getting said emulator up and running on a VMS machine (even though I've
never managed it), which would be seriously cool.
I've never tried running an unsupported release.
I expected that the
installation process would have made some complaint or warning even
if it loaded.
I've heard the VAX version of VMS is more forgiving. OpenVMS V7.2eft2/Alpha
would install on a machine with less than 64MB (unsupported), while
V7.2/Alpha itself totally refuses to install. V7.2/VAX can be installed in
less than 16MB which is the minimum supported.
3:38 p.m.
But that's
really a problem, since -1H1 is just -1 with support for newer
processors. If it was like the V7.1-x releases for the Alpha, it was
probably cheaper.
It's definitly a problem. However, V7.2-1 is listed as only available
internally. Yes, the V7.2-1H1 release was nice and cheap :^) OTOH, it runs
on my PWS 433au quite nicely and required a lot less patches than V7.2-1
would have, so I'm happy :^)
3:46 p.m.
How is the lack of V7.2-1 a problem? There's
nothing it can do that
V7.2-1H1 can't.
From a Hobbyist standpoint it's not. However, if I
understand things
correctly it's only *supported* on a very narrow list of
hardware. Of
course any commercial shop probably had their V7.2-1 CD's long before
V7.2-1H1 came out.
Zane
4:33 p.m.
How is the
lack of V7.2-1 a problem? There's nothing it can do that
V7.2-1H1 can't.
From a Hobbyist standpoint it's not. However,
if I understand things
correctly it's only *supported* on a very narrow list of
hardware. Of
course any commercial shop probably had their V7.2-1 CD's long before
V7.2-1H1 came out. from the archive for supported systems, like the VAX
Console software
for a VAX 8820.
I just checked the V7.2-1H1 SPD on WIS and all the systems that are
supported by V7.2-1 are supported by V7.2-1H1.
--
Eric Dittman
dittman(a)dittman.net
1 Jul
1 Jul
3:37 a.m.
--- Eric Dittman <dittman(a)dittman.net> wrote:
> > Thoughts? What was the best V4.x release?
V3? Does anyone have VMS 1.x
> > And if so what processors does it support?
>
> Unless I'm mistaken V1 probably only supports the VAX-11/780...
I think that's true. The 11/750 didn't come out for a couple of years,
and that's the only other model that I would expect could do it (since
its microcode is in ROM). Dunno what devices are supported by V1.0.
> ... and through
> V3 I'd guess only the VAX-11/7xx family is supported (in fact I believe
> this is probably true for early V4 releases).
We got a MicroVAX-I when they were new ($10K!). It came with MicroVMS on
an RD-52 (10Mb disk). AFAIK, that was the first VAX not in the 11/7xx line.
> Oh, and as for anyone having V1, the question is,
not only does anyone have
> it, does anyone have the doc's. There was a survey about a year ago, and
> about the oldest anyone had was V2 or V3 of the Doc sets.
I don't recall the question, but I have the VMS 1.0 docs in a storage locker.
There is a possibility that I know someone with the media kit, but it's been
years since I talked to them.
OTOH, I have no docs for any v2 or v3 versions of VMS, but I do have some
distribution TU-58s for stuff in the range of 3.4 to 3.6.
-ethan
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5:13 a.m.
--- Eric Dittman <dittman(a)dittman.net> wrote:
Whoops, none of the quoted material was written by me.
--
Eric Dittman
dittman(a)dittman.net
> > Thoughts? What was the best V4.x
release? V3? Does anyone have VMS 1.x
> > And if so what processors does it support?
>
> Unless I'm mistaken V1 probably only supports the VAX-11/780...
I think that's true. The 11/750 didn't come out for a couple of years,
and that's the only other model that I would expect could do it (since
its microcode is in ROM). Dunno what devices are supported by V1.0.
> ... and through
> V3 I'd guess only the VAX-11/7xx family is supported (in fact I believe
> this is probably true for early V4 releases).
We got a MicroVAX-I when they were new ($10K!). It came with MicroVMS on
an RD-52 (10Mb disk). AFAIK, that was the first VAX not in the 11/7xx line.
> Oh, and as for anyone having V1, the
question is, not only does anyone have
> it, does anyone have the doc's. There was a survey about a year ago, and
> about the oldest anyone had was V2 or V3 of the Doc sets.
I don't recall the question, but I have the VMS 1.0 docs in a storage locker.
There is a possibility that I know someone with the media kit, but it's been
years since I talked to them.
OTOH, I have no docs for any v2 or v3 versions of VMS, but I do have some
distribution TU-58s for stuff in the range of 3.4 to 3.6.
2 Jul
2 Jul
5:33 a.m.
--- Eric Dittman <dittman(a)dittman.net> wrote:
Sorry. I don't tend to over-edit attributions, so perhaps you were the only
name at the top when it got to me and I didn't notice that the part you did
write didn't make it in the final version. In any case, my apologies if any
aspersions were cast.
-ethan
=====
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> > >
Thoughts? What was the best V4.x release? V3?...
Whoops, none of the quoted material was written by me.
6:11 a.m.
--- Eric Dittman <dittman(a)dittman.net> wrote:
Sorry. I don't tend to over-edit attributions, so perhaps you were the only
name at the top when it got to me and I didn't notice that the part you did
write didn't make it in the final version. In any case, my apologies if any
aspersions were cast.
No aspersions, I just find that people tend to send email based on the
attributions, so I didn't want anyone mislead.
--
Eric Dittman
dittman(a)dittman.net
> >
> Thoughts? What was the best V4.x release? V3?...
Whoops, none of the quoted material was written by me.
1 Jul
1 Jul
8:30 a.m.
I don't recall the question, but I have the VMS 1.0
docs in a storage >locker.
You have VMS V1.0 doc's?!?!?! Out of curiousity how big are they? That's
something that would be very cool to get scanned in.
Zane
--
| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator |
| healyzh(a)aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast |
| | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, |
| and Zane's Computer Museum. |
| http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ |
2 Jul
2 Jul
4:44 a.m.
New subject: VMS 1.0 (was Re: 'Good' versions of VMS)
--- "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh(a)aracnet.com> wrote:
Larger than the RT-11v4 set (same blue binders), much smaller than an Orange
Wall. I think there are two cartons of binders, so call it 12 volumes of
several hundred pages each.
I was thinking about these very docs this weekend and the other thread about
OCR and scan densities, etc. I'm wondering if it'd be worth it to OCR
something
like this and, rather than storage as flat text or HTML, attempt to push the
text back into RUNOFF. Does anyone have a RUNOFF clone in perl? I presume
that
excepting strange dependence on odd, undocumented behavior (i.e., plain, by-
the-book usage), it wouldn't be difficult to make a state-based RUNOFF engine
in perl.
obHistory:
Software Results did not get a VAX until the 11/750 came out (I still have
that one...s/n BT000354, ordered the day they were announced), but they did
port the HASPBOX software from the PDP-11/70 to the VAX at DEC's request (on
11/780 s/n 00006, a sales-demo model at the home office, as we were told - DEC
had a customer who wouldn't upgrade to a VAX unless it could get files to/from
the IBM mainframe, just like his PDP-11 ;-) I presume the docs came out of
that early developement effort.
The next time I am at the storage unit, I will look for the manuals.
-ethan
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I don't
recall the question, but I have the VMS 1.0 docs in a storage
locker.
You have VMS V1.0 doc's?!?!?! Out of curiousity how big are they? That's
something that would be very cool to get scanned in.
5:15 a.m.
New subject: VMS 1.0 (was Re: 'Good' versions of VMS)
Larger than the RT-11v4 set (same blue binders), much
smaller than an
>Orange Wall. I think there are two cartons of binders, so call it 12
>volumes of several hundred pages each.
OK, definitly bigger than I was thinking. Though when you say an Orange
Wall I guess you're talking VAX/VMS V4 not RT-11 V5.x (which unless I just
miscounted is 9 volumes).
I was thinking about these very docs this weekend and
the other thread
Something to consider. If you scan it in at 300-600dpi into Adobe Acrobat
files you produce a usable copy without any errors (unless you should miss
a page). OTOH, if you OCR it you're adding a LOT of work *and* adding the
large possibility of errors creeping in.
Zane
--
| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator |
| healyzh(a)aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast |
| | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, |
| and Zane's Computer Museum. |
| http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ |
about OCR and scan densities, etc. I'm
wondering if it'd be worth it
to OCR something like this and, rather than
storage as flat text or
HTML, attempt to push the text back into RUNOFF. Does anyone have a
RUNOFF clone in perl? I presume that excepting strange dependence on
odd, undocumented behavior (i.e., plain, by-the-book usage), it
wouldn't be difficult to make a state-based RUNOFF engine in perl.
5:40 a.m.
New subject: VMS 1.0 (was Re: 'Good' versions of VMS)
--- "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh(a)aracnet.com> wrote:
Right. VMS V4, not RT-11 V5.x. Speaking of which, I also happen to have
said Orange Wall and a Grey Wall (VMS V5.x) in the attic. For that matter,
I'll check tonight if the VMS 1.0 docs are upstairs, but I don't think so.
Larger than the
RT-11v4 set (same blue binders), much smaller than an
>Orange Wall.
OK, definitly bigger than I was thinking. Though when you say an Orange
Wall I guess you're talking VAX/VMS V4 not RT-11 V5.x (which unless I just
miscounted is 9 volumes). >I was thinking about these very docs this weekend
and the other thread
>>about OCR and scan densities, etc. I'm wondering if it'd be worth it
>to OCR something like this and... push the text back into RUNOFF.
Something to consider. If you scan it in at
300-600dpi into Adobe Acrobat
files you produce a usable copy without any errors (unless you should miss
a page).
Right, and if I were scanning it in, I'd probably spin it off that way.
OTOH, if you OCR it you're adding a LOT of work
*and* adding the
large possibility of errors creeping in.
It would be at least one order of magnitude of work larger, and would require
much review and editing, but I'm just trying to consider if it's worth doing.
I did a similar task on a 4-page table of Commodore ROM versions and spent
lots of time validating the data, much more time than scanning, as you might
expect.
Given that VMS 1.0 is largely a curiosity, probably not. Some later version
of OS/8 might be viable (smaller dataset, larger user base).
-ethan
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29 Jun
29 Jun
1:14 p.m.
Thoughts? What was the best V4.x release? V3? Does
anyone have VMS 1.x and
if so what processors does it support? As I recall on the 780 at school it
looked a _lot_ like RSX-11M+ :-)
--Chuck
I worked on v2.0-v3.6 at DEC and 4.2 or so after leaving them.
The versions 1.x were mostly compatibility mode utilities.
2.0 was buggy...
I seem to remember a quick upgrade to 2.2 or so was more stable.
I remember 3.2 as pretty good and 3.2-3.4 less so if you were
trying to use the new hardware HSC's, RA81's and stuff.
3.5 and 3.6 were very stable... on 11/7xx boxes and 8600's.
Clusters were new and tricky but useable at 3.6.
Clusters got good by 4.2
This is my best field service memory from almost 20 years ago.
1981-86.
Bill
---
Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a
villain in a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller
bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.dyndns.org
2:01 p.m.
I remember 3.2 as pretty good and 3.2-3.4 less so if
you were
trying to use the new hardware HSC's, RA81's and stuff.
3.5 and 3.6 were very stable... on 11/7xx boxes and 8600's.
Clusters were new and tricky but useable at 3.6.
Clusters got good by 4.2
This is my best field service memory from almost 20 years ago.
1981-86.
Any memory or documentation on what the first version was to support various
hardware platforms (especially for the older stuff)? I've been searching
for that info for ages.
Zane
8526
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