22 Oct
2015
22 Oct
'15
6:11 p.m.
I'm not sure if the author of this nice bit of work is on here, but I'm
looking at a board for this, the Altera DE-1. Unfortunately there are a
plethora of Altera DE-1 boards and much puzzlement by me as to whether
this is the right one. The page with the info is deficient in details
to tell.
The actual part which the author used is the key thing here, and not
just the name of the board. I'd appreciate opinions here as to whether
these will run PDP2011 or whether it will be a nice learning board for
my mistake pile.
http://pdp2011.sytse.net/wordpress/pdp-11/fpga-boards/de1/
There is currently what I think is a good specimen available if anyone
is interested.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/131621388597
It includes the software and docs. The current one I have was a student
version sans the documents and software.
I hope to get the thing going to play with sometime soon. There are so
many small boards out there for very little money once I get this done
and understand more about targeting this board and others I'd like to
see how cheap a board this could be made to run with give the current
boards.
There is currently an Arm/fpga Zilog chip board now made available that
would be a nifty board to make into a PDP11 if it comes out as cheap as
they promise it to be.
thanks
Jim
22 Oct
22 Oct
6:54 p.m.
On 10/22/2015 7:11 PM, jwsmobile wrote:
I'm not sure if the author of this nice bit of work is on here, but I'm
looking at a board for this, the Altera DE-1. Unfortunately there are a
plethora of Altera DE-1 boards and much puzzlement by me as to whether
this is the right one. The page with the info is deficient in details
to tell.
The actual part which the author used is the key thing here, and not
just the name of the board. I'd appreciate opinions here as to whether
these will run PDP2011 or whether it will be a nice learning board for
my mistake pile.
http://pdp2011.sytse.net/wordpress/pdp-11/fpga-boards/de1/
That just looks like mine!
It includes the software and docs. The current one I
have was a student
version sans the documents and software.
If you have FPGA just get a pirate hat and version 9 of the software
and docs.
thanks
Jim
Ben.
PS: if you need the FPGA board by direct from terasic while they still
have them.
www.terasic.com
8:44 p.m.
On 10/22/2015 6:11 PM, jwsmobile wrote:
I'm not sure if the author of this nice bit of work is on here, but I'm
looking at a board for this, the Altera DE-1. Unfortunately there are a
plethora of Altera DE-1 boards and much puzzlement by me as to whether this is
the right one. The page with the info is deficient in details to tell.
The actual part which the author used is the key thing here, and not just the
name of the board. I'd appreciate opinions here as to whether these will run
PDP2011 or whether it will be a nice learning board for my mistake pile.
http://pdp2011.sytse.net/wordpress/pdp-11/fpga-boards/de1/
There is currently what I think is a good specimen available if anyone is
interested.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/131621388597
It includes the software and docs. The current one I have was a student
version sans the documents and software.
I hope to get the thing going to play with sometime soon. There are so many
small boards out there for very little money once I get this done and
understand more about targeting this board and others I'd like to see how
cheap a board this could be made to run with give the current boards.
There is currently an Arm/fpga Zilog chip board now made available that would
be a nifty board to make into a PDP11 if it comes out as cheap as they promise
it to be.
thanks
Jim
I have one of the DE1 CycloneII device boards and at this point that family
(CycloneII) is a bit old.
If you can get it really cheap (<<$50) go for it, but the last Altera toolset
that supports CycloneII is v13.0sp1 (v15.0 is current).
I have moved most all my new experimentation on to the CycloneIV and CycloneV
family devices.
If you plan to use a board going forward for some time, the newer CycloneV based
boards are a better choice:
http://www.terasic.com.tw/cgi-bin/page/archive.pl?Language=English&Cate…
In particular the DE0-CV has a lot of nice features for implementing a PDP-11
($150):
http://www.terasic.com.tw/cgi-bin/page/archive.pl?Language=English&Cate…
Or if you want to go light on the hardware design and lean more on embedded
software, the DE0-NANO-SOC board ($99):
http://www.terasic.com.tw/cgi-bin/page/archive.pl?Language=English&Cate…
The DE0-NANO CycloneIV board ($79) is also a good choice:
http://www.terasic.com.tw/cgi-bin/page/archive.pl?Language=English&Cate…
At this point I would stay away from CycloneIII or CycloneII boards (unless you
can get one very cheap) as the tech is older.
Don
9:27 p.m.
On 10/22/2015 9:44 PM, Don North wrote:
I have one of the DE1 CycloneII device boards and at
this point that
family (CycloneII) is a bit old.
If you can get it really cheap (<<$50) go for it, but the last Altera
toolset that supports CycloneII is v13.0sp1 (v15.0 is current).
I have moved most all my new experimentation on to the CycloneIV and
CycloneV family devices.
Well just give him your unwanted DE1 card (or sell it to him)
The GOTYA on the PDP11 stuff is it still uses the old SDC card
format 1GB or less.
If you plan to use a board going forward for some
time, the newer
CycloneV based boards are a better choice:
http://www.terasic.com.tw/cgi-bin/page/archive.pl?Language=English&Cate…
If I said what I want to say about that
I would be banned from the list for foul language.
In particular the DE0-CV has a lot of nice features for implementing a
PDP-11 ($150):
http://www.terasic.com.tw/cgi-bin/page/archive.pl?Language=English&Cate…
Too small and for some reason I can't get a keyboard to work with it.
Or if you want to go light on the hardware design and
lean more on
embedded software, the DE0-NANO-SOC board ($99):
http://www.terasic.com.tw/cgi-bin/page/archive.pl?Language=English&Cate…
More fowl language comes to mind! I don't see any AHDL code
for using the dynamic ram. You mean I have BUY that code.
I think AHDL is cleaner to program in than the other options.
Is program the right term for hardware?
At this point I would stay away from CycloneIII or
CycloneII boards
(unless you can get one very cheap) as the tech is older.
Sometimes older is better. They dropped both async set and clear from the
flip flops and just left clear. That is a BUG not a feature in my mind.
[sarcasm] wait Verlog and VHDL only use latches [end sarcasm]
Don
Ben.
Back to building a nice LS TTL computer in a FPGA.
Any one know the time the 74LS382 came out. The TTL data
book says Jan 1981/revised march 1988 for S and LS chips?
9:54 p.m.
On 10/22/2015 9:27 PM, ben wrote:
On 10/22/2015 9:44 PM, Don North wrote:
Wow. What can I say. AHDL. I never used that even when it was current.
Proprietary to Altera. All of the warts of VHDL with none of the benefits.
For PDP2011 direct compatibility then the path of least resistance is probably
the DE0-NANO with CycloneIV for $79. I have several; nice little boards for
experimentation.
You can get it from Adafruit ($99) or Digikey as well. Direct from Terasic has
high shipping cost.
And if you are going to learn an FPGA development language look at
SystemVerilog/Verilog,
OpenCL, or VHDL. Certainly not AHDL. It was bad even when it was new. It does
not get better with age.
Don
I have one of the DE1 CycloneII device boards and
at this point that
family (CycloneII) is a bit old.
If you can get it really cheap (<<$50) go for it, but the last Altera
toolset that supports CycloneII is v13.0sp1 (v15.0 is current).
I have moved most all my new experimentation on to the CycloneIV and
CycloneV family devices.
Well just give him your unwanted DE1 card (or sell it to him)
The GOTYA on the PDP11 stuff is it still uses the old SDC card
format 1GB or less.
If you plan to use a board going forward for some
time, the newer
CycloneV based boards are a better choice:
http://www.terasic.com.tw/cgi-bin/page/archive.pl?Language=English&Cate…
If I said what I want to say about that
I would be banned from the list for foul language.
In particular the DE0-CV has a lot of nice features for implementing a
PDP-11 ($150):
http://www.terasic.com.tw/cgi-bin/page/archive.pl?Language=English&Cate…
Too small and for some reason I can't get a keyboard to work with it.
Or if you want to go light on the hardware design
and lean more on
embedded software, the DE0-NANO-SOC board ($99):
http://www.terasic.com.tw/cgi-bin/page/archive.pl?Language=English&Cate…
More fowl language comes to mind! I don't see any AHDL code
for using the dynamic ram. You mean I have BUY that code.
I think AHDL is cleaner to program in than the other options.
Is program the right term for hardware?
At this point I would stay away from CycloneIII
or CycloneII boards
(unless you can get one very cheap) as the tech is older.
Sometimes older is better. They dropped both async set and clear from the
flip flops and just left clear. That is a BUG not a feature in my mind.
[sarcasm] wait Verlog and VHDL only use latches [end sarcasm]
Don
Ben.
Back to building a nice LS TTL computer in a FPGA.
Any one know the time the 74LS382 came out. The TTL data
book says Jan 1981/revised march 1988 for S and LS chip
10:09 p.m.
On 10/22/2015 10:54 PM, Don North wrote:
On 10/22/2015 9:27 PM, ben wrote:
Both Verlog and VHDL leave me puzzled just how they work as logic
black boxes. AHDL I can figure out how to pass parameters.
On 10/22/2015 9:44 PM, Don North wrote:
Wow. What can I say. AHDL. I never used that even when it was current.
Proprietary to Altera. All of the warts of VHDL with none of the benefits. I have one of the DE1 CycloneII device boards and
at this point that
family (CycloneII) is a bit old.
If you can get it really cheap (<<$50) go for it, but the last Altera
toolset that supports CycloneII is v13.0sp1 (v15.0 is current).
I have moved most all my new experimentation on to the CycloneIV and
CycloneV family devices.
Well just give him your unwanted DE1 card (or sell it to him)
The GOTYA on the PDP11 stuff is it still uses the old SDC card
format 1GB or less.
If you plan to use a board going forward for some
time, the newer
CycloneV based boards are a better choice:
http://www.terasic.com.tw/cgi-bin/page/archive.pl?Language=English&Cate…
If I said what I want to say about that
I would be banned from the list for foul language.
In particular the DE0-CV has a lot of nice features for implementing a
PDP-11 ($150):
http://www.terasic.com.tw/cgi-bin/page/archive.pl?Language=English&Cate…
Too small and for some reason I can't get a keyboard to work with it.
Or if you want to go light on the hardware design
and lean more on
embedded software, the DE0-NANO-SOC board ($99):
http://www.terasic.com.tw/cgi-bin/page/archive.pl?Language=English&Cate…
More fowl language comes to mind! I don't see any AHDL code
for using the dynamic ram. You mean I have BUY that code.
I think AHDL is cleaner to program in than the other options.
Is program the right term for hardware?
At this point I would stay away from CycloneIII
or CycloneII boards
(unless you can get one very cheap) as the tech is older.
Sometimes older is better. They dropped both async set and clear from the
flip flops and just left clear. That is a BUG not a feature in my mind.
[sarcasm] wait Verlog and VHDL only use latches [end sarcasm]
Don
Ben.
Back to building a nice LS TTL computer in a FPGA.
Any one know the time the 74LS382 came out. The TTL data
book says Jan 1981/revised march 1988 for S and LS chip For PDP2011 direct compatibility then the path of
least resistance is
probably
the DE0-NANO with CycloneIV for $79. I have several; nice little boards
for experimentation.
You can get it from Adafruit ($99) or Digikey as well. Direct from
Terasic has high shipping cost.
A quick look at the PDP2011 site says that is it is too small
for the optional PDP 11 features.
And if you are going to learn an FPGA development
language look at
SystemVerilog/Verilog,
OpenCL, or VHDL. Certainly not AHDL. It was bad even when it was new. It
does not get better with age.
I'll go back to schematic entry before I touch them.
They FUCK!
Don
11 p.m.
On 10/22/2015 10:09 PM, ben wrote:
On 10/22/2015 10:54 PM, Don North wrote:
Not sure what you mean by 'too small'. The boards have the same number of
header pins ((2x20)x2). You do need to wire up RS232 serial and SDcard to the
DE0-NANO (burning about 8 or so pins) since they are not on the baseboard.
And of course on the smaller board you don't get all the LEDs and switches.
The CycloneII part on the DE1 board has fewer logic elements than does the
CycloneIV part on the DE0-NANO, and has less embedded RAM blocks as well.
His source has configuration files for the DE0-NANO so it is probably just a matter
of recompiling.
For PDP2011 direct compatibility then the path of
least resistance is
probably
the DE0-NANO with CycloneIV for $79. I have several; nice little boards
for experimentation.
You can get it from Adafruit ($99) or Digikey as well. Direct from
Terasic has high shipping cost.
A quick look at the PDP2011 site says that is it is too small
for the optional PDP 11 features.
23 Oct
23 Oct
1:27 a.m.
And if you are going to learn an FPGA development
language look at
SystemVerilog/Verilog, OpenCL, or VHDL. Certainly not AHDL. It was bad
even when it was new. It does not get better with age.
I'll go back to schematic entry before I touch them.
They FUCK! Don
1:50 a.m.
Please bear in mind that a number of these boards don't have an ethernet
connector. I bought the DE-1 and it's a great board apart from that, but
ageing as suggested. However, the board you buy must depend on how close a
fit you need to the bitstreams available or how competent you think you
are/might be with the tools in reconfiguring for a different target board.
M.
On 23 October 2015 at 09:27, Dave Wade <dave.g4ugm at gmail.com> wrote:
Please keep profanity off the list.
You can continue to use AHDL but just like any lower level language, its
proprietary to the Altera tool chain, may need work to move between chip
families, and means you will have to do almost all the work yourself. There
is very little AHDL code available for download. So you are cutting
yourself off from the rest of the world where the formally standardized
tools VHDL and Verilog have largely taken over from proprietary languages
like AHDL.
I was going to say that there is no "parameter passing" in VHDL. You
define an entity and then connect it to a higher level entity, but looking
in the help this isn't true. I also struggled with this when I was building
a "Baby Baby" as I wanted to have different types of output device and have
conditional synthesis but this does not appear to be supported.
Dave Wade
G4UGM
And if you are going to learn an FPGA development
language look at
SystemVerilog/Verilog, OpenCL, or VHDL. Certainly not AHDL. It was bad
even when it was new. It does not get better with age.
I'll go back to schematic entry before I touch them.
They FUCK! Don
22 Oct
22 Oct
10:15 p.m.
On 10/22/2015 8:44 PM, Don North wrote:
On 10/22/2015 6:11 PM, jwsmobile wrote:
FYI -
I designed a daughter board for the DE0 nano that has the ENC424J600
Ethernet Device that he uses, an SD Card, and a FT4232 with four serial
ports over a USB interface.
I've got one built but haven't tried it out. Yet.
I think I've got a few spare bare boards if someone wants to try one.
It is fine pitch SMT.
Rob.
I'm not sure if the author of this nice bit of work is on here, but
I'm looking at a board for this, the Altera DE-1. Unfortunately there
are a plethora of Altera DE-1 boards and much puzzlement by me as to
whether this is the right one. The page with the info is deficient in
details to tell.
The actual part which the author used is the key thing here, and not
just the name of the board. I'd appreciate opinions here as to
whether these will run PDP2011 or whether it will be a nice learning
board for my mistake pile.
http://pdp2011.sytse.net/wordpress/pdp-11/fpga-boards/de1/
There is currently what I think is a good specimen available if anyone
is interested.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/131621388597
It includes the software and docs. The current one I have was a
student version sans the documents and software.
I hope to get the thing going to play with sometime soon. There are
so many small boards out there for very little money once I get this
done and understand more about targeting this board and others I'd
like to see how cheap a board this could be made to run with give the
current boards.
There is currently an Arm/fpga Zilog chip board now made available
that would be a nifty board to make into a PDP11 if it comes out as
cheap as they promise it to be.
thanks
Jim
I have one of the DE1 CycloneII device boards and at this point that
family (CycloneII) is a bit old.
If you can get it really cheap (<<$50) go for it, but the last Altera
toolset that supports CycloneII is v13.0sp1 (v15.0 is current).
I have moved most all my new experimentation on to the CycloneIV and
CycloneV family devices.
If you plan to use a board going forward for some time, the newer
CycloneV based boards are a better choice:
http://www.terasic.com.tw/cgi-bin/page/archive.pl?Language=English&Cate…
In particular the DE0-CV has a lot of nice features for implementing a
PDP-11 ($150):
http://www.terasic.com.tw/cgi-bin/page/archive.pl?Language=English&Cate…
Or if you want to go light on the hardware design and lean more on
embedded software, the DE0-NANO-SOC board ($99):
http://www.terasic.com.tw/cgi-bin/page/archive.pl?Language=English&Cate…
The DE0-NANO CycloneIV board ($79) is also a good choice:
http://www.terasic.com.tw/cgi-bin/page/archive.pl?Language=English&Cate…
At this point I would stay away from CycloneIII or CycloneII boards
(unless you can get one very cheap) as the tech is older.
Don
3348
days inactive
3348
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9 comments
6 participants
participants (6)
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bfranchuk＠jetnet.ab.ca -
dave.g4ugm＠gmail.com -
jws＠jwsss.com -
mark＠wickensonline.co.uk -
north＠alum.mit.edu -
radioengr＠gmail.com