27 Feb
2013
27 Feb
'13
11:11 p.m.
This will be little help, and I can't recall the exact details, but a magazine I used
to have described a circuit that IIRC put MDA on a composite monitor. It was Micro
something, and common enough but just wasn't BYTE or PC Mag. And you built the thing
by wire wrapping w/machine pin sockets and pins that at the time IIRC you could only get
from Mouser. They were named as the source anyway.
Have you tried beeping? I think rom BASIC supports beeping or some kind of rudimentary
sound generation. With no floppy disk or h/d it automatically loads BASIC. Hallelujah. It
can be a useful diagnostic tool.in some instances.
28 Feb
28 Feb
12:53 a.m.
I believe your VGA problem has to do with the older IBM ROMs, I believe you
need the '82 BIOS to use a VGA card or any card with it's own BIOS, and
being as I have a 16-64 KB 5150 with the newer BIOS I assume yours will
work also, saying you have an EPROM programmer.
--
C:\win
Bad Command Or File Name
C:\
6:43 a.m.
The ROM say IBM 1981, this unit must be early, Serial # 0155185 (did they
start from #1?).
So I guess I have to find an original IBM CGA card then and all is well?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Christopher Satterfield" <christopher1400 at gmail.com>
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Only" <cctech at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2013 3:53 AM
Subject: Re: IBM 5150
I believe your VGA problem has to do with the older IBM
ROMs, I believe you
need the '82 BIOS to use a VGA card or any card with it's own BIOS, and
being as I have a 16-64 KB 5150 with the newer BIOS I assume yours will
work also, saying you have an EPROM programmer.
--
C:\win
Bad Command Or File Name
C:\
7:24 a.m.
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Riley" <fraveydank at gmail.com>
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2013 9:56 AM
Subject: Re: IBM 5150
On Feb 28, 2013, at 9:43 AM, "TeoZ" <teoz
at neo.rr.com> wrote:
Trying to keep it stock, but usable (so MDA is out unless I can find a
suitable monitor). I do have an XT clone here if I wanted something "fancy".
The ROM say IBM 1981, this unit must be early,
Serial # 0155185 (did they
start from #1?).
So I guess I have to find an original IBM CGA card then and all is well?
Or a new ROM?
- Dave 
7:59 a.m.
On 02/28/2013 10:24 AM, TeoZ wrote:
Trying to keep it stock, but usable (so MDA is out unless I can find a
suitable monitor). I do have an XT clone here if I wanted something
"fancy".
I think Cindy down in TX has some MDA-compatible monitors.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
The ROM say IBM 1981, this unit must be early, Serial
# 0155185 (did
they start from #1?).
So I guess I have to find an original IBM CGA card then and all is well?
Or a new ROM?
- Dave 
8:16 a.m.
I do indeed! I don't have any original IBM mono working right now, but a
young man is picking up the defective ones to repair and resell on Saturday.
If you don't need IBM original, I have plenty of others.
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org]
On Behalf Of Dave McGuire
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2013 9:59 AM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: IBM 5150
On 02/28/2013 10:24 AM, TeoZ wrote:
Trying to keep it stock, but usable (so MDA is out unless I can find a
suitable monitor). I do have an XT clone here if I wanted something
"fancy".
I think Cindy down in TX has some MDA-compatible monitors.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2013.0.2899 / Virus Database: 2641/6136 - Release Date: 02/27/13
The ROM say IBM 1981, this unit must be early, Serial
# 0155185 (did
they start from #1?).
So I guess I have to find an original IBM CGA card then and all is well?
Or a new ROM?
- Dave 
9:47 a.m.
On 2/28/13 9:43 AM, TeoZ wrote:
The ROM say IBM 1981, this unit must be early, Serial
# 0155185 (did they
start from #1?).
I was told by David Both that he used the very first PC off the assembly
line to write the PC Documentation. When I asked what happened to PC #1
after he was done with it he said as far as he knew the same thing they did
to all their internal use machines at the time. Stripped it for parts for
warranty repairs.
Mark
So I guess I have to find an original IBM CGA card
then and all is well?
----- Original Message ----- From: "Christopher Satterfield"
<christopher1400 at gmail.com>
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Only" <cctech at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2013 3:53 AM
Subject: Re: IBM 5150
--
From the eComStation Desktop of: Mark Dodel
Warpstock 2013 - http://www.warpstock.org
Warpstock Europe 2013 -http://www.warpstock.eu
For a choice in the future of personal computing, Join VOICE -
http://www.os2voice.org
"The liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the
growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than their
democratic State itself. That in it's essence, is Fascism - ownership
of government by an individual, by a group or by any controlling private
power." Franklin Delano Roosevelt, Message proposing the Monopoly
Investigation, 1938
I believe your VGA problem has to do with the
older IBM ROMs, I believe you
need the '82 BIOS to use a VGA card or any card with it's own BIOS, and
being as I have a 16-64 KB 5150 with the newer BIOS I assume yours will
work also, saying you have an EPROM programmer.
--
C:\win
Bad Command Or File Name
C:\
10:18 a.m.
Why can't you just write a small batch program that references the driver
and the necessary commands, and put it on the startup disk? If not enough
room on a 360K, then you can use a second floppy. We used to do this for
customers all the time, 15 years ago. Also included small start up menus,
etc.
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org]
On Behalf Of madodel
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2013 11:48 AM
To: General at proxyz14.mailnet.ptd.net; Discussion at proxyz14.mailnet.ptd.net
:On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: IBM 5150
On 2/28/13 9:43 AM, TeoZ wrote:
The ROM say IBM 1981, this unit must be early, Serial
# 0155185 (did
they start from #1?).
I was told by David Both that he used the very first PC off the assembly
line to write the PC Documentation. When I asked what happened to PC #1
after he was done with it he said as far as he knew the same thing they did
to all their internal use machines at the time. Stripped it for parts for
warranty repairs.
Mark
So I guess I have to find an original IBM CGA card
then and all is well?
----- Original Message ----- From: "Christopher Satterfield"
<christopher1400 at gmail.com>
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Only" <cctech at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2013 3:53 AM
Subject: Re: IBM 5150
--
From the eComStation Desktop of: Mark Dodel
Warpstock 2013 - http://www.warpstock.org
Warpstock Europe 2013 -http://www.warpstock.eu
For a choice in the future of personal computing, Join VOICE -
http://www.os2voice.org
"The liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth
of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than their
democratic State itself. That in it's essence, is Fascism - ownership
of government by an individual, by a group or by any controlling private
power." Franklin Delano Roosevelt, Message proposing the Monopoly
Investigation, 1938
-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2013.0.2899 / Virus Database: 2641/6136 - Release Date: 02/27/13
-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2013.0.2899 / Virus Database: 2641/6136 - Release Date: 02/27/13
I believe your VGA problem has to do with the
older IBM ROMs, I
believe you need the '82 BIOS to use a VGA card or any card with it's
own BIOS, and being as I have a 16-64 KB 5150 with the newer BIOS I
assume yours will work also, saying you have an EPROM programmer.
--
C:\win
Bad Command Or File Name
C:\
12:06 p.m.
On Thu, 28 Feb 2013, Cindy Croxton Electronics Plus wrote:
Why can't you just write a small batch program
that references the driver
and the necessary commands, and put it on the startup disk? If not enough
room on a 360K, then you can use a second floppy. We used to do this for
customers all the time, 15 years ago. Also included small start up menus,
etc.
The "driver" is a ROM. You'd have to start by writing a LOADABLE driver.
It would be convenient to have another machine on hand while writing it,
since the "driver" is to get the video to work.
It would be MUCH MUCH easier to install a CGA or MDA card, and contact
Cindy Croxton in Texas and buy one of her "9-pin monitors".
12:46 p.m.
We have the video cards, too.
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org]
On Behalf Of Fred Cisin
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2013 2:06 PM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: RE: IBM 5150
On Thu, 28 Feb 2013, Cindy Croxton Electronics Plus wrote:
Why can't you just write a small batch program
that references the
driver and the necessary commands, and put it on the startup disk? If
not enough room on a 360K, then you can use a second floppy. We used
to do this for customers all the time, 15 years ago. Also included
small start up menus, etc.
The "driver" is a ROM. You'd have to start by writing a LOADABLE driver.
It would be convenient to have another machine on hand while writing it,
since the "driver" is to get the video to work.
It would be MUCH MUCH easier to install a CGA or MDA card, and contact Cindy
Croxton in Texas and buy one of her "9-pin monitors".
-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2013.0.2899 / Virus Database: 2641/6136 - Release Date: 02/27/13
-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2013.0.2899 / Virus Database: 2641/6136 - Release Date: 02/27/13
9:48 a.m.
New subject: IBM 5150 ROMs
On Thu, 28 Feb 2013, Christopher Satterfield wrote:
I believe your VGA problem has to do with the older
IBM ROMs, I believe you
need the '82 BIOS to use a VGA card or any card with it's own BIOS, and
being as I have a 16-64 KB 5150 with the newer BIOS I assume yours will
work also, saying you have an EPROM programmer.
Be aware, however that the IBM ROMs are not pinout compatible with
2764 (although SUPER 5160 clone was). You would need to modify or
make an adapter. I've heard that there existed an EPROM that WAS
pinout compatible, but it wasn't easily available 30 years ago when
I needed one. (actually 5, since I wanted to include the BASIC)
There are some great, albeit possibly apocryphal, anecdotes
regarding the SIXTH ROM socket. (present on IBM 5150)
One story is that IBM asked Microsoft the size for the BASIC.
Microsoft said "32K".
IBM expected the size to "go over budget", and socketed for a spare 8K.
Microsoft was offended, and made sure, including some padding, that the
release version of the BIOS used EXACTLY 32768 bytes.
Anybody remember USES of the SIXTH ROM socket?
"MBI" (probably a different MBI) made a supplement ROM that added
some printer configuration features, etc.
I think that there still is one in my 16K 5150
Other "non-standard" ROMs:
Todd Fischer? made a diagnostics ROM, to temporarily replace the BIOS ROM,
and communicate through the serial port!
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin at xenosoft.com
10:11 a.m.
New subject: IBM 5150 ROMs
"MBI" (probably a different MBI) made a
supplement ROM that added
some printer configuration features, etc.
I think that there still is one in my 16K 5150
Other "non-standard" ROMs:
Todd Fischer? made a diagnostics ROM, to temporarily replace the BIOS ROM,
and communicate through the serial port!
Has either one of those been imaged and saved somewhere?
g.
--
Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007
http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.
http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home.
Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies.
ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment
A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes.
http://www.scarletdme.org - Get it _today_!
11:59 a.m.
This will be little help, and I can't recall the exact details, but a
magazine I used to have described a circuit that IIRC put MDA on a
composite monitor. It was Micro something, and common enough but just
wasn't BYTE or PC Mag. And you built the thing by wire wrapping
w/machine pin sockets and pins that at the time IIRC you could only get
from Mouser. They were named as the source anyway.
It's not hard to do, basically, XOR the suncs and combine with tehe video
signal. I have used a slgihtly modified versio nof the video output
circuit of the TRS-80 model 1 onoccasion.
BUT this will not coverrt scan rates. You end up with a composite signal
with an 18kHz horizotnal scan frequency if you start with an MDA singal.
Some monuitors can be tweked ot handle that, many cannot. Of those that
can, they might not like it too much,m you are stressing the horizotnal
ouptu transisotr and flyback transoformer a bit.
Have you tried beeping? I think rom BASIC supports
beeping or some
The cassette mtoor control commands (is that MOTOR ON and MOTOR OFF?) are
suitable too.
kind of rudimentary sound generation. With no floppy
disk or h/d it
automatically loads BASIC. Hallelujah. It can be a useful diagnostic
tool.in some instances.
When I had a floppy disk controller problem on mt PC/XT, I put the board
on an extender, booted to ROM BASIC and used port acccess commanedst to
fiddle eith the control registers on the FDC board. A bit of work with a
logic probe and I found the faulty IC.
-tony
4315
days inactive
4315
days old
13 comments
10 participants
participants (10)
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ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
christopher1400＠gmail.com -
cisin＠xenosoft.com -
fraveydank＠gmail.com -
geneb＠deltasoft.com -
madodel＠ptdprolog.net -
mcguire＠neurotica.com -
rampaginggreenhulk＠yahoo.com -
sales＠elecplus.com -
teoz＠neo.rr.com