--- Lawrence LeMay <lemay(a)cs.umn.edu> wrote: Me neither. In fact, I could use a set for a friend in Germany. I'll have to find out precisely what he's after, but I would initially think it's for something in the Indy/Indigo class (not like a Crimson or Onyx) and as new as feasible. Can anyone help? Thanks, -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com

--- Brian Chase <vaxzilla(a)jarai.org> wrote: I used to develop for it at my previous position (that and AIX and HP/UX and Solaris). No complaints. Not sure what the underlying hardware was... they never let us see it (nor would they warn us in advance precisely *what* the target was ;-) It was all ksh/Perl/C stuff... text, text and more text. Not sure why they had SGI hardware in that environment. -ethan __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com

If its a Crimson era machine, I've 6.2.(something) images sitting around here on disk. I've not burned them to CD to see if they'll boot yet though.. (Yes, my Crimson project is a really really slow thing.) David On Sun, 2003-01-26 at 00:35, Ethan Dicks wrote:

Howdy, Now I've some competition to find a elusive RE boardset. (drat) :-) Actually, what I'd really like to find is a DG2/GE8 and a couple of RM5's so I can have more texture memory, but I'll "settle" for a generic RE w/ RM4's. :-) I also need a set red skins, but eh.. Any particular reason for 5.2? W/ a full 256Mb of memory I didn't think 6.2 would be horrific performance.. David On Sun, 2003-01-26 at 21:29, Robert Borsuk wrote:

I think your thinking of a Crimson DeskSide. Its not a power issue... (They just require a dedicated 20A circuit if your going to leave them on for any length of time, and a NEUMA(sp?) plugin, or adaptor.) The issue w/ Crimsons, as I understand it is FCC related. They're insufficiently shielded, and you might whack your neighbors Channel 3.. :-) David On Sat, 2003-01-25 at 16:21, liste(a)artware.qc.ca wrote:

On Sat, 25 Jan 2003, Eric Smith wrote: The Crimson and earlier Power Series Deskside systems use a 20A twist lock connector. The power cable for the systems uses a NEMA L5-20P plug and NEMA L5-20R receptacle. The Hubbell part numbers for these parts are: insulgrip plug: HBL2311 insulgrip receptacle: HBL2313 single flush receptacle (outlet): HBL2310 -Toth

I've tried that, I still can't get anywhere in Netscape, or ping an address like www.google.com. My /etc/resolv.conf is about the same, only with my ISP's nameserver. I have also gone through the System Manager utility several times too. Besides the fact that I can't resolve anything from the console, when I start netscape, I get a dialog box that says that hosts are unreachable, and says that if I must use a non-root name server, I have to set the $SOCKS_NS environment variable to point at the name server. I have tried setting this manually from the command line, but to no avail. I'm probably using the wrong command. My UNIX experience comes from Linux and Mac OS X, so I haven't really had a whole lot of practice at stuff like this. Ian Primus ian_primus(a)yahoo.com On Saturday, January 25, 2003, at 06:52 PM, James Rice wrote:

I've just gotten a fun little hardware project working. And I do beleive that I've got the first HP1000 minicomputer with an 8 gigabyte hard drive too. Often collectors find an interesting CPU, but lack the peripherals and/or software needed to complete a full system. Old hard drives (like the HP7920) are large, take too much power, and eat parts (like air filters that are no longer made) and maintainance. On the other hand, modern 'components' like ATA (thats IDE) disk drives are cheap and quite reliable. So just how hard would it be to hang a modern ATA disk drive off of a classic mini, or micro for that matter? Here's the approach I took: I've just a small 8052 microcontroller board from pjrc.com before, and had one in my parts box. One of the sample programs available from that site shows how to interface a modern ATA drive to the 8255 PIO chip complete with source code. So I used that little board, and added a second 8255 PIO chip. This second 8255 talks to a small handfull of TTL parts, and they in turn talk to a series of level shifter circuits that interface to an HP +16-bit duplex register interface board through a custom cable. With this hardware the HP can read and write 16-bit parallel data to and from the 8052 board. To make things pretty, I drilled out a 8-inch blank pannel with about $50 worth of panel mount LED holders so all the data lines to and from the HP, as well as several status outputs from the 8052 are displayed in true blinkin' lights style. For firmware I started with the ATA (IDE) demo program from pjrc.com, and put a 'wrapper' around that existing code. Now at power-up the 8051 initializes the ATA drive and reads its parameter block into memory. Then the 8052 checks the state of a toggle switch on the disk controllers front pannel. If its in diagnostic mode the stock ATA demo code runs with several new menu options that allow me to debug the 8052 to HP interface protocols. If the toggle switch is in the normal mode the 8052 jumps into a new section of the code that processes commands sent over the HP parallel interface. A very simple disk controller instruction set was developed and implemented in 8052 assembler. For software support on the HP side, I'm not running any existing HP operating system. I am running a custom threaded interpreter on the HP though, so all the disk driver and file system code has to be written from the ground up. This is still a work in progress, but the threaded interpreter currently allows me to add new keywords in either assembly language or high level code so writing the low-level driver keywords was a snap. Yesterday afternoon I successfully read and write data from the HP2113 to and from a 8 gigabyte hard drive rescued from a defunct and undeserving Mac G3. I kinda get a kick out of the Apple logo on the drive thats now bolted to the rack mount pannel deep inside my HP rack. The hardware effort for this IDE drive hack was moderate, the biggest effort was in wiring up the cable harnesses between the 8052 level shifter logic and the pannel mount leds. If I were going to do this project again, I'd forgo the rows of leds and cut the build time by half or more. The next biggest time sink was in building a custom HP interface cable with all the correct (vintage) connectors. There are 34 signal lines each with a ground inside those rather small round cables. Terminating these to the HP 48-pin connector was not too bad, but the other end used a 50-pin centronics style connector, and wiring that was just a little tight. If your at all interested in hanging an ATA drive off of some vintage machine, I highly reccomend you check out the documentation on the pjrc.com web site. There is a newer version of the 8052 board that already has the second 8255 chip installed so that one can be used for the ATA disk interface and the other used to drive whatever logic and level shifters you need to talk to your vintage system. As an alternative, the 8052 circuits could be hand-wired (say, on an s-100 protoboard) and the whole disk controller along with a laptop sized hard drive could be easily built onto the board. Anyone up for a S-100 'hardcard'? Now then, the down-side: The 8052 board I used is only running at 11.059 Mhz, and the 8-bit 8052 has to put the 8255 through several operations to transfer 16-bit data to and from the ATA drive using programmed I/O. So the overall performance is not breathtaking. The newer version of the 8052 board tranfer rates (from drive to 8052 memory only) of about 16K bytes per second. So if high performance disk emulation is your bag, your going to need a faster controller, or add a little hardware so the 8052 drives a full 16-bit hardware interface between the ATA drive and your vintage system of choice (assuming your vintage system has 16-bits that is). My current low-level driver keywords are written in threaded code, so they are not going to be nearly as fast as keywords written in assembler, but I'm not really aiming for speed just yet. Depending on your system of interest, it may be possible to write the 8052 code so that it performs a binary-level emulation of some original equipment disk subsystem. This might allow you to bypass the driver development efforts at the cost of more 8052 programming / debugging time to get the emulation 'right'. But becuase I'm using a home rolled operating system (HP-IPL/OS of course), this was not a factor for me. I'm not trying to emulate anything like an original disk controller or drive. I'd guess my program development and debugging time at well under 20 hours. So in a few evenings of spare time, and for a fairly small sum of money, you can have a huge, very reliable hard disk system hanging off of your chosen vintage machine. Ok, now I'm off to write a boot-loader for this crazy thing, and attempt my first ATA cold boot of HP-IPL/OS!

Will do, I may have real file access working by then! Sellam Ismail wrote:

Eric wrote... 7900A drives work as well for TSB, not just the 7905/6/20 drives. The 7900A drives do not require the 13037 controller or subsystem, they just require a 13210 disc interface pca in the cpu. Totally different interface between 7900, to 7905/06/20. Also, be careful on the 7906, as only the A-D models will work with TSB. The H model, which is HP-IB, will not (at least via a direct HP-IB PCA card - if the H model 7906 drive is hooked up to a 13037 subsystem that supports HP-IB as well {not many 13037 subsystems had the HP-IB option} then it MAY work on TSB if the HP-IB portion of the 13037 is "hidden"). I'll have to try that someday. Also, the host adapter and the disc controller subsystem box are both called 13037. Never heard of a 13175? Am I missing something? Also, check out the 7900/7905/7906/7920 drive emulator at arraid.com (AEM box I think). I hope to be receiving one of those soon. Jay West --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus]

Not sure if this made it to the list.... Bob wrote... 13037! No, the H model 7906 drive CAN go to a 13037 disc subsystem, but only if the particular 13037 disc subsystem you have, has the HP-IB option card in it. It can of course, go to a 12821 controller instead. Jay West

Jay wrote: Can the computer distinguish a 7906H attached to the 13037 box via HPIB I'd like to think that because the 13037 box is an "intelligent" controller, they should look the same to the host. This would be convenient for me, since it should be fairly easy to write a program for a PC with an HPIB card to emulate a 7906H. If anyone has any 7906H technical documentation, that is. I suppose the 7906H predates the Amigo, CS/80, and SS/80 specs, and probably had some earlier and less sophisticated command set.

I would think the CPU would have to use totally different drivers. Talking to the 12821A interface is TOTALLY different than talking to the 13037 interface board from the I/O backplane perspective. The 'H' series drives also use a totally different boot rom than MAC (13037) disks. I have also heard that you cannot mix ICD (H-series) drives on the same bus as CS/80 disks as well, but this is more of a rumor than a fact, it may be that HP did not support this with their drivers but it may be electrically possible. Eric Smith wrote:

Not a chance. Take a look at the interface schematics for the 13037 (interface) versus the 12821A. There is near-zero doubt that these need totally different drivers, as MAC disks make a good deal of lower-level information available to the controller than CS/80 does. CS/80 drives use a logical block address very much like a modern ATA drive. The MAC interface sees the drive as raw sectors, tracks and surfaces. It may be that by adding the HPIB option to the MAC controller that some firmware translation takes place that tries to make the 'H' series drive look just like a MAC drive, but seems that 'H' series drives were supported on the 12821A, at least by the standard drivers. I guess what we really need to know here, is did HP support 'H' series drives on a 13037 with the same driver as MAC drives. From what I've read of the 'MAC to H-series upgrade' program, this was not the case. I do know that at one point HP wanted all their MAC disk users to 'upgrade' to 'H' series disks, but the user community did not like this 'upgrade' path due to the loss of performance and system reconfiguration issues. HP's response seems to be the adoption of CS/80 and the 12821A which on paper had a slightly higher data transfer rate than MAC disks. I would have expected any drive on a 13037 to look, well, like a 13037 drive, but I'm getting a very different impression from the RTE documentation and user community publications. Hopefully I'm wrong here, I do realize it would make life easier for you if I am. Eric Smith wrote:

I'll try to dig up an old copy of an HP-users grup magazine that has an in-depth article on the transition to HPIB drives on 13037 controllers. Perhaps it will answer your questions bettern than I can't. Eric Smith wrote:

Bob Shannon wrote: There are three configurations to consider: A) CPU --- 13037 --- 7920M B) CPU --- 13037 --- 7920H C) CPU --- native HPIB interface --- 7920H (I don't remember the P/N of the native interface) I knew that the configuration C needed a different driver than either A or B. I was NOT aware that A and B required different drivers; it was my impression that there was basically a "13037 driver". However, I'm definitely not an RTE expert. Eric

Bob Shannon wrote: That would be quite cool, thanks! Eric

James wrote.... I believe they said the typical starter units were around $8,000. Needless to say, I'm not paying that kinda money! *G* Jay West

On Saturday, January 25, 2003, at 10:26 PM, Jim Strickland wrote: Yes, I can. I have also tried using both the DNS addresses provided by the ISP, as well as the address of my router, which works for all of my other machines. I can even access web servers if I manually punch in the IP address. Ian Primus ian_primus(a)yahoo.com

On Sunday, January 26, 2003, at 12:36 AM, r. 'bear' stricklin wrote: I checked, it's already there. Ian Primus ian_primus(a)yahoo.com