Help with RK8e-RK05J diagnostics on PDP-8m - test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org

14 Mar 2013

Hi folks,

Does anyone have the matching documentation (doc) file for a version of RK8e Drive Control
Test Diagnostics? I'm trying to debug an RK8e-RK05J setup. The best set of doc and
code that I have found is:

  - maindec-08-dhrkb-e-pb.bin  - the E-version code
  - maindec-08-dhrkb-g-pb.pdf  - the G-version doc
  - A table of certain E to G version addresses but many appear to be wrong
--- Note that the dhrkb part identifies the program and the dash-letter, the version.

I also have the code for dhrkb versions B and C but not the doc. The problem is that to
make sense of a detected error, you have to relate a PC location reference printed by the
diagnostic to the program listing provided in the doc.

Finding the G-version code or the doc for versions B, C or E, would solve the immediate
problem. The original doc files might have been named in the format: maindec-08-dhrkb-e.d,
for example.

The specific error which I am seeing with dhrkb-E is that it halts at location 5340, with
AC=0 after printing:
  Status Register Error
  PC=0552  GD=6000  CM=3000  DA=0040
...where PC is the location where the error occurred, GD the expected value, CM the
command register value and DA the disk address register.

The issue I am finding with the table is that the location 0552 doesn't appear there
and all the locations in the range of 400-1000 appear to fall in basic user interface
routines in the G-version listing. Thus they don't appear to be valid diagnostic
tests. The table was found here:
http://dustyoldcomputers.com/pdp-common/reference/papertapes/maindec/mainde…

Any assistance would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Steve L.
http://www.tronola.com/

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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: Fun Power Supply repair tip (David Riley)
   2. Re: Fun Power Supply repair tip (Brent Hilpert)
   3. Re: Fun Power Supply repair tip (Jim Stephens)
   4. An amazing looking Sun 3/280 (mc68010)
   5. more books FFS (David Griffith)
   6. 5151 hunt... (geneb)
   7. Re: Xerox 820-II & external FDC (Dave Land)
   8. Re: An amazing looking Sun 3/280 (Jim Stephens)
   9. Re: An amazing looking Sun 3/280 (mc68010)
  10. Re: An amazing looking Sun 3/280 (Brent Hilpert)
  11. Re: HP 9830 computer and HP 9860 mark-sense card reader
      (Brent Hilpert)
  12. Re: An amazing looking Sun 3/280 (Glen Slick)
  13. Re: VT102 (John Wilson)
  14. Re: An amazing looking Sun 3/280 (mc68010)
  15. Re: An amazing looking Sun 3/280 (mc68010)
  16. Education & vintage/classic computing (Murray McCullough)
  17. Vacuum tube and semiconductor cross ref and current
      replacements (Cindy Croxton Electronics Plus)
  18. All about CRT tubes, and HP semiconductor PN cross ref
      (Cindy Croxton Electronics Plus)
  19. Re: Care and Feeding of Vacuum Tubes (Valves) (Christian Kennedy)
  20. Re: Care and Feeding of Vacuum Tubes (Valves) (William Donzelli)
  21. Re: Care and Feeding of Vacuum Tubes (Valves) (Jim Stephens)
  22. Re: Care and Feeding of Vacuum Tubes (Valves) (Dave McGuire)
  23. Re: VT102 (Mouse)
  24. Re: Education & vintage/classic computing (Brent Hilpert)
  25. Re: Education & vintage/classic computing (Dave Caroline)
  26. Re: Care and Feeding of Vacuum Tubes (Valves) (Chuck Guzis)
  27. Re: Care and Feeding of Vacuum Tubes (Valves) (David Riley)
  28. Re: More fun stuff-bring out the vacuum tubes! (David Riley)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 19:46:03 -0400
From: David Riley <fraveydank at gmail.com>
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
        <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Subject: Re: Fun Power Supply repair tip
Message-ID: <48A05E00-8483-447F-A775-D8AE03032570 at gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

On Mar 13, 2013, at 7:01 PM, Josh Dersch <derschjo at gmail.com> wrote:

  Well, turns out that someone (me!) had installed
the wrong fuse -- it was a
 2.5A fuse where a 10A was required (F2 takes the 2.5A, btw).  Apparently
 when fuses start to give out they draw a lot of current -- lesson learned
 :). 
Good thing to look out for!  If I were to nitpick, though, I'd probably
point out that it's not that the fuse is starting to draw a lot of
current, but rather that it's starting to drop a lot of voltage as the
I in the IV term of Ohm's law goes way above its intended range.  The
glowing is a tangential result (P = I^2*R).

- Dave

------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 17:03:29 -0700
From: Brent Hilpert <hilpert at cs.ubc.ca>
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
        <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Subject: Re: Fun Power Supply repair tip
Message-ID: <C907175E-7391-4814-BDC0-F440A4F1ADF0 at cs.ubc.ca>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed

On 2013 Mar 13, at 4:01 PM, Josh Dersch wrote:

  Hey all --

 This'll probably rank as a "duh" moment for most of you but I  
 thought I'd
 share (mostly because it amused me):

 I was trying to figure out why the unregulated 8VDC line of my  
 SWTPC 6800's
 power supply kept dipping so suddenly under moderate load (and why  
 it would
 keep falling and falling as long as I left it running that way...)

 The overall behavior was:

 - Power up with minimal load (just the motherboard w/it's onboard
 regulator): 8V line was fine at about 8.7V.
 - Add up to two RAM cards and the 8V was still at around 8.3 or so.
 - Add a third card and 8V drops to 6.5V and continues to drop  
 steadily over
 time.

 This had me scratching my head.  Then I happened to notice that the  
 fuse
 (F1 on the 12V supply board) was glowing a dull orange and getting  
 brighter.

 Well, turns out that someone (me!) had installed the wrong fuse --  
 it was a
 2.5A fuse where a 10A was required (F2 takes the 2.5A, btw).   
 Apparently
 when fuses start to give out they draw a lot of current -- lesson  
 learned
 :).

 Fuse replaced and all is happy.  So, the lesson is: check your fuses
 carefully. 
Interesting fault mode, but I wouldn't express that as the fuse  
"drawing a lot of current". That fuse should be the one in the +8V  
line and it looks like what was happening is your cards were drawing  
current just short of blowing the fuse. As the fuse filament heated  
up it's resistance increased, so more of the +8 supply voltage was  
dropping across the fuse, reducing the +8V output level. (Overall  
current should actually be going down).

Yay, another SWTPC 6800 (I have one too).

------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 17:07:32 -0700
From: Jim Stephens <jws at jwsss.com>
To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: Fun Power Supply repair tip
Message-ID: <514114C4.8030905 at jwsss.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

On 3/13/2013 4:01 PM, Josh Dersch wrote:
  This had me scratching my head.  Then I happened
to notice that the fuse
 (F1 on the 12V supply board) was glowing a dull orange and getting brighter.

 Well, turns out that someone (me!) had installed the wrong fuse -- it was a
 2.5A fuse where a 10A was required (F2 takes the 2.5A, btw).  Apparently
 when fuses start to give out they draw a lot of current -- lesson learned If you
had that behavior, it sounds like you were using a fusetron time 
delay fuse.

The fuses will run at 100% overload indefinitely, handle 10x for a spike 
and blow greater than that.

if you had one of the fuses w/o the slow blow, then it would have run 
for a while and then blown as well, but you don't get the more precise 
overload time delay on that type of fuse.  The fusing element may blow 
by overload somewhere in the conductor, or with an overload, the solder 
at each end of the fuse envelope may fail and it will blow then.

It is interesting that you saw a change in current going thru the fuse 
though, sort of indicates the fuse wasn't working so well. Also with 
that amount of heat into the phenolic fuse holder, you can probably 
expect it to be very fragile and fail at some point due to the spring 
load in it.  I've seen fuse holders which didn't have glowing fuses, but 
overloaded ones fail that way.

Never had one I knew first hand had an incandescent fuse in it though, 
that is a bit worrisome.

jim

------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 17:40:56 -0700
From: mc68010 <mc68010 at gmail.com>
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
        <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Subject: An amazing looking Sun 3/280
Message-ID: <51411C98.5060606 at gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed

In all my years of messing with Sun gear I have never seen such a clean 
looking and neat 3/280. Even back in the early 90's. It looks like it 
was just unboxed. I wouldn't pay $2k for it but, it is beautiful if your 
into Sun 3 boxes. It's almost Sun 3 porn.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/151011714493

------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 17:51:35 -0700 (PDT)
From: David Griffith <dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu>
To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
Subject: more books FFS
Message-ID:
        <alpine.DEB.2.00.1303131750390.9974 at sleipnir.cs.csubak.edu>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII

I have two more books free for shipping.  The Fortran 77 one is gone. 
Here's what I have:

*Motorola CMOS/NMOS Special Functions Data (1986)
*Turbo C Reference Guide (1987) from Borland
*UNIX Primer Plus by Waite Group Staff (1983, Softcover)
*Introduction to WordStar by Arthur Naiman (1983, Paperback)
*WordStar with Style by Roger White (1983, Paperback)
*The Illustrated CP/M WordStar Dictionary with MailMerge and SpellStar
*Word Processing on the Kaypro by Peter A. McWilliams (1983, Paperback)

Take one or many.

-- 
David Griffith
dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu

A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail?

------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 18:09:24 -0700 (PDT)
From: geneb <geneb at deltasoft.com>
To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
Subject: 5151 hunt...
Message-ID: <alpine.LFD.2.03.1303131808550.10781 at deltasoft.com>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII

Found one thanks to a listmember.

Still chasing a 5150 compatible keyboard.

tnx.

-gene

-- 
Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007
http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.
http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home.
Some people collect things for a hobby.  Geeks collect hobbies.

ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment
A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes.
http://www.scarletdme.org - Get it _today_!

------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 19:29:02 -0600
From: Dave Land <xmechanic at landcomp.net>
To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: Xerox 820-II & external FDC
Message-ID: <514127DE.9070407 at landcomp.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

On 3/13/13 5:59 AM, Steven Hirsch wrote:
  On Tue, 12 Mar 2013, mc68010 wrote:

  On 3/12/2013 5:43 PM, Steven Hirsch wrote:
> On Tue, 12 Mar 2013, mc68010 wrote:
>
>> On 3/11/2013 11:37 AM, Enrico Lazzerini wrote:
>>> Hi, I received a Xerox 820-II mainboard. I've found that does not
>>> have a FDC
>>> on board and that the 37-pin connector used to connect the floppy
>>> disk it
>>> seems to have a bus and its own protocol to talk to an external FDC
>>> board
>>> outside. Is there anybody who knows more and is it there a way to
>>> try to
>>> connect and operate the drive with this mainboard?
>>>
>
>> Having cleaned the heads, about every other disk going through a box
>> of 8" 820 disk, sthere is nothing in the drive other than the drives
>> and a power supply.  I am not sure if the 820-II is different but, I
>> doubt it. The cable just splits off to each drive. Everything is on
>> the mainboard.
>
> My 82O-II does indeed have its floppy controller on a daughterboard.
> I suspect this is a different arrangement from the original 820 aka
> Ferguson Bigboard. 
  I am sure you are right but, I don't see
anything but a power supply
 with the floppy drives in this video. Looks identical to the non II
 floppy units I had. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9OwwolhLuE 
 I think we're talking about different cases.  The disk controller is
 clearly visible in the closeup of the computer itself.  It may have been
 a different PCB in the floppy vs. hard-disk system.

 On a related subject, I would love to get my hands on an 820-II with
 hard drive.  Had two lined up at different points but both sellers
 flaked out and stopped answering e-mail.  Wonder if there's some sort of
 distortion field projected from these units?

 If anybody has one they'd like to part with, I can do cash or trade.

 Steve

Don't guess I'll be getting rid of mine for a while, after all the crap 
I went through to get some software on to it, LOL! Besides, I don't know 
how well the hard drive would stand up to any kind of shipping stress by 
the usual gorillas from USPS, Fedex, etc.

-- 
Dave Land
Land Computer Service

Check out my site at http://www.landcomp.net

------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 21:52:26 -0700
From: Jim Stephens <jws at jwsss.com>
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
        <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Subject: Re: An amazing looking Sun 3/280
Message-ID: <5141578A.2070907 at jwsss.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed

On 3/13/2013 5:40 PM, mc68010 wrote:
  In all my years of messing with Sun gear I have
never seen such a 
 clean looking and neat 3/280. Even back in the early 90's. It looks 
 like it was just unboxed. I wouldn't pay $2k for it but, it is 
 beautiful if your into Sun 3 boxes. It's almost Sun 3 porn.

 http://www.ebay.com/itm/151011714493

 I had two 4/280's like that, wish I could have held on to them. Also was 
at an auction with 8 systems in a complex from a database development 
company.  Gorgeous hardware for them, crap execution on the s/w.

I fired up the systems and ran backups for the auctioneer and myself of 
their development systems.

was pretty cool.

jim

------------------------------

Message: 9
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 22:36:17 -0700
From: mc68010 <mc68010 at gmail.com>
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
        <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Subject: Re: An amazing looking Sun 3/280
Message-ID: <514161D1.6060700 at gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

On 3/13/2013 8:34 PM, Glen Slick wrote:
  I don't have those panels to close up the
rear of the rack. I've only 
 powered up mine a few times since I picked it up a couple of years 
 ago. I should really find a new home for it in the Seattle area. -Glen  
I have never even seen those rear panels before. I have seen so many 3/4 
280 systems over the years but, they have always been uncovered in the 
back. That's the cleanest 3/280 ever. I wonder if it was actually used. 
First thing I would probably have done back then is take off the rear 
panels and toss them. What a pain to have to unscrew all that to get at 
anything. Anyone know about the keylock on the front ? I've never seen a 
keylock there before. Nothing really worth getting at on that side of a 
x/280 case. If it only held the front panel on it would only protect the 
backplane and tape drive.

------------------------------

Message: 10
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 22:56:46 -0700
From: Brent Hilpert <hilpert at cs.ubc.ca>
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
        <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Subject: Re: An amazing looking Sun 3/280
Message-ID: <61715879-FC8E-4D41-87D9-981228252E49 at cs.ubc.ca>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed

On 2013 Mar 13, at 9:52 PM, Jim Stephens wrote:
  On 3/13/2013 5:40 PM, mc68010 wrote:
  In all my years of messing with Sun gear I have
never seen such a  
 clean looking and neat 3/280. Even back in the early 90's. It  
 looks like it was just unboxed. I wouldn't pay $2k for it but, it  
 is beautiful if your into Sun 3 boxes. It's almost Sun 3 porn.

 http://www.ebay.com/itm/151011714493

  I had two 4/280's like that, wish I could have held on to them.  
 Also was at an auction with 8 systems in a complex from a database  
 development company.  Gorgeous hardware for them, crap execution on  
 the s/w. 
Ran across a nice racked Sun 2 system with open-reel 9-track in a  
storage closet at a local U just a couple years ago (pretty sure it  
was a 2). I don't know now what has happened to it.

------------------------------

Message: 11
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 23:09:38 -0700
From: Brent Hilpert <hilpert at cs.ubc.ca>
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
        <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Subject: Re: HP 9830 computer and HP 9860 mark-sense card reader
Message-ID: <1988FAD9-F175-4F9A-A6FE-996B6187D8D7 at cs.ubc.ca>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed

On 2013 Mar 13, at 9:25 PM, Ethan Dicks wrote:
  On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 9:38 PM, Brent Hilpert
<hilpert at cs.ubc.ca>  
 wrote:
  As Rob pointed out, the 9830 one must be special
order to HP  
 though, to
 obtain the lazy-T cursor, unless there's some alternative tortured  
 way
 they're injecting the T into the display scanning that I'm not  
 seeing. 
 Thank you for mentioning this.  I've asked on the list now and  
 again about
 a computer I used c. 1976 that had a "lazy-T cursor".  I was quite  
 young
 at the time and it was only brought to our school for a special  
 occasion,
 so my memories are quite fuzzy about it, but having now googled with
 some useful keywords, I'm reasonably certain that the device I was  
 trying
 to describe was an HP 9830 with an HP 9860 mark-sense card reader.

 It seems unlikely I'll ever end up with one, so I'm happy to have  
 found
 this emulator, updated less than a year ago...

 http://sourceforge.net/projects/hp9800e/files/go9800/

 Thanks again for the very helpful nudge in precisely the correct  
 direction! 
Well that's very prescient, you're answering a question I was just  
about to ask.

Rob and I have been discussing 9830s lately (and thanks to Rob I have  
one to work on here) and we realised, somewhat to our surprise, that  
we had both encountered the 9830 in school in the mid-70's, in  
geographically very-separated regions - Rob in the Montreal area and  
me in the Vancouver area.

Both instances had the mark-sense card reader too. Everybody sat at  
their desk in class and pencil-marked off their first program (10  
PRINT "<MY NAME>"..), lined up at the computer and submitted their  
card deck for batch-style processing. Keeners could use the machine  
after hours and type and edit directly on the keyboard and LED  
display (whoo-hoo!).

So just how widespread or prevalent were 9830s in schools - did  
anyone else here encounter the 9830 in highschool (or gradeschool)?

------------------------------

Message: 12
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 23:12:44 -0700
From: Glen Slick <glen.slick at gmail.com>
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
        <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Subject: Re: An amazing looking Sun 3/280
Message-ID:
        <CAM2UOw+g7mRf+Yn_4pYantYep0rgdt-N_6bGQ58-XxXa=qoJpg at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

On Mar 13, 2013 11:06 PM, "mc68010" <mc68010 at gmail.com> wrote:
  Anyone know about the keylock on the front ?
I've never seen a keylock there before. Nothing really worth getting at on that
side of a x/280 case.
If it only held the front panel on it would only protect the backplane and
tape drive.

On the 4/280 rack I have I'm pretty sure that is a front panel key switch
which is wired to the power controller.

-Glen

------------------------------

Message: 13
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2013 02:32:41 -0400
From: John Wilson <wilson at dbit.com>
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
        <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Subject: Re: VT102
Message-ID: <20130314063241.GA1823 at dbit.dbit.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 11:18:26AM -0400, Mouse wrote:
 I'm particularly curious because I have a
terminal emulator which,
among other things, can be told to emulate something moderately close
to a VT100.  I'd like to get its wrapping behaviour right; this
complicates the question because now I have to decide what I think
"right" is. :-) 
I know the feeling!

 A quick look at my code indicates that I don't
quite do any of those.
The only thing I see explicitly clearing the "wrap now" flag is tab, 
Bad news:  unless I'm missing something, tab doesn't clear the wrap flag on
the VT100 or 101, and on the 102 it clears it only if the cursor moves (but
not if it was already at the right margin).

If you want any cases tested on a real 100, 101, or 102, let me know!
It'll be easy until I get sick of having them in a row on my living room
floor.

John Wilson
D Bit

------------------------------

Message: 14
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2013 00:11:24 -0700
From: mc68010 <mc68010 at gmail.com>
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
        <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Subject: Re: An amazing looking Sun 3/280
Message-ID: <5141781C.7020400 at gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

On 3/13/2013 11:12 PM, Glen Slick wrote:
> On Mar 13, 2013 11:06 PM, "mc68010" <mc68010 at gmail.com> wrote:
>  Anyone know about the keylock on the front ?
I've never seen a keylock > there before. Nothing really worth getting at on
that side of a x/280 case.
> If it only held the front panel on it would only protect the backplane and
> tape drive.
>
> On the 4/280 rack I have I'm pretty sure that is a front panel key switch
> which is wired to the power controller.
>
> -Glen

Hmm fuzzy memories coming back. Maybe I do remember them. It just went 
to some header on the power distribution deal right ?

------------------------------

Message: 15
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2013 00:26:32 -0700
From: mc68010 <mc68010 at gmail.com>
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
        <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Subject: Re: An amazing looking Sun 3/280
Message-ID: <51417BA8.2080604 at gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed

On 3/13/2013 9:52 PM, Jim Stephens wrote:
  I had two 4/280's like that, wish I could
have held on to them. Also 
 was at an auction with 8 systems in a complex from a database 
 development company.  Gorgeous hardware for them, crap execution on 
 the s/w.

 I fired up the systems and ran backups for the auctioneer and myself 
 of their development systems.

 was pretty cool.

 jim 
I have had a few x/280 systems over the years but, nothing so original 
as this one. They are hard to find places to keep. I got rid of all of 
mine too. Back in the 90's people would beg you to take them away. The 
racks they wanted to keep.  I once built a stack out of 12 slot cases 
3x2 on the bottom and 3 units tall. 18 in all. There was once a picture 
of me standing on top that has been lost to the ages.

------------------------------

Message: 16
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 12:32:01 -0400
From: Murray McCullough <c.murray.mccullough at gmail.com>
To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
Subject: Education & vintage/classic computing
Message-ID:
        <CAMvyYF_iFy8yYZExV26hhmFeD5VJzqbZFevuqTwsVaj0QFvP7Q at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

I have a question that concerns vintage/classic computing intersecting
the education world: Can anyone tell me what was the first
microcomputer used in an education setting for teaching purposes?

Thanks.

Murray  :)

------------------------------

Message: 17
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 16:01:01 -0500
From: "Cindy Croxton Electronics Plus" <sales at elecplus.com>
To: "'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts'"
        <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Subject: Vacuum tube and semiconductor cross ref and current
        replacements
Message-ID: <010701ce202d$de0dda30$9a298e90$@com>
Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="us-ascii"

http://www.worldtubecompany.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=TSL

  _____  

No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2013.0.2904 / Virus Database: 2641/6166 - Release Date: 03/12/13

------------------------------

Message: 18
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 16:18:01 -0500
From: "Cindy Croxton Electronics Plus" <sales at elecplus.com>
To: "'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts'"
        <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Subject: All about CRT tubes, and HP semiconductor PN cross ref
Message-ID: <010c01ce2030$3e2fc480$ba8f4d80$@com>
Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="us-ascii"

http://www.hparchive.com/Bench_Briefs/HP-Bench-Briefs-1981-03-05.pdf

Cindy Croxton

Electronics Plus

1613 Water Street

Kerrville, TX 78028

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------------------------------

Message: 19
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 16:02:10 -0700
From: Christian Kennedy <chris at mainecoon.com>
To: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh at aracnet.com>
Cc: classiccmp at classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: Care and Feeding of Vacuum Tubes (Valves)
Message-ID: <F342C3C8-5749-4F3C-809F-EC5B2C63616C at mainecoon.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

On 13 Mar 2013, at 4:08 PM, Zane H. Healy wrote:

  Do any special precautions need to be taken with
storing vacuum 
 tubes?   
They can get gassy.  If the getters aren't nice and shiny the tube is gone; if the are
it still makes sense (especially on things that run with significant B+) to bring them up
on heater only and let them bake for a while.

--
Dr. Christian Kennedy
chris at mainecoon.com               AF6AP | DB00000692 | PG00029419
http://www.mainecoon.com        PGP KeyID 108DAB97
PGP fingerprint: 4E99 10B6 7253 B048 6685  6CBC 55E1 20A3 108D AB97
"Mr. McKittrick, after careful consideration..."

------------------------------

Message: 20
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 19:10:22 -0400
From: William Donzelli <wdonzelli at gmail.com>
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
        <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Subject: Re: Care and Feeding of Vacuum Tubes (Valves)
Message-ID:
        <CANij+ddF+4GfaO9OE7NAOSMPdK+5V5Y+j31+3QjZWdLz_OpHkg at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

  Do any special precautions need to be taken with
storing vacuum tubes?  Are
 these something that can simply be tossed in the attic and forgotten about
 until needed?  I recently got a fair number, and expect to get more at some
 point in the future. 
Temperature extremes are really not a problem, simply because they are
made for such extremes during normal operation. Moisture can be a
problem in extreme cases, but normally not much of an issue either -
mostly the boxes suffer (and metal tubes, I suppose). The only thing
that really is bad for tubes is salt spray. Don't store your tubes in
a seaside shack.

--
Will

------------------------------

Message: 21
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 16:22:23 -0700
From: Jim Stephens <jws at jwsss.com>
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
        <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Subject: Re: Care and Feeding of Vacuum Tubes (Valves)
Message-ID: <51410A2F.7060205 at jwsss.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

On 3/13/2013 4:08 PM, Zane H. Healy wrote:
  Do any special precautions need to be taken with
storing vacuum 
 tubes?  Are these something that can simply be tossed in the attic and 
 forgotten about until needed?  I recently got a fair number, and 
 expect to get more at some point in the future.

 A lot of the ones I got are simply dumped in an old metal tool box.

 Zane

 A lot of them have traces of cesium or other odd agents that were used 
to absorb the last bits of O2 after the vacuum was applied.

they otherwise are glass, copper, steel, and micah, and other odd 
materials which should not age much.  I'd be careful of storing them to 
rattle around for fear of damage.

Also though you can peer thru the glass at the insides some of them can 
be hard to figure out the number of in 40 or 60 years of storage, so 
make sure that you keep them such that their legends don't get rubbed 
off in storage.  Some of them will have the numbers applied to the glass 
via some process that really is indelible short of breaking the glass, 
and I've seen some with some sort of white ink that didn't last the 
lifetime of the tube (was messed up when I took it out in the 60's)  
Luckily in some cases you can read the chassis to determine the numbers.

Do you have a tester stored with the tubes?  Do you have them sorted by 
NOS vs. pulls?  that is about the only other thing to think about.  and 
the other bits, capacitors and other parts won't age as well as the 
tubes if you have bought and stored them.

Jim

------------------------------

Message: 22
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 19:30:04 -0400
From: Dave McGuire <mcguire at neurotica.com>
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
        <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Subject: Re: Care and Feeding of Vacuum Tubes (Valves)
Message-ID: <51410BFC.2090604 at neurotica.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

On 03/13/2013 07:08 PM, Zane H. Healy wrote:
  Do any special precautions need to be taken with
storing vacuum tubes? 
 Are these something that can simply be tossed in the attic and forgotten
 about until needed?  I recently got a fair number, and expect to get
 more at some point in the future.

 A lot of the ones I got are simply dumped in an old metal tool box. 
  Just don't break them (and they're tougher than they look) and they'll
be fine.  I have tubes that I've stored pretty much like that, from
attic to basement to storage locker...since I was a kid, some of them I
took out of junked TVs 35 years ago, and I use them for repairs today.

              -Dave

-- 
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA

------------------------------

Message: 23
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2013 03:51:54 -0400 (EDT)
From: Mouse <mouse at Rodents-Montreal.ORG>
To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: VT102
Message-ID: <201303140751.DAA27636 at Sparkle.Rodents-Montreal.ORG>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

   A quick
look at my code indicates that I don't quite do any of
 those.  The only thing I see explicitly clearing the "wrap now" flag
 is tab, [...]  Bad news:  unless I'm missing something, tab doesn't clear
the wrap
 flag on the VT100 or 101, and on the 102 it clears it only if the
 cursor moves (but not if it was already at the right margin). 
Yes, I noticed your description implied that.

But I'm clearly misreading my code.  It looks to me as though my
wrapping flag causes a wrap even if the cursor is no longer at the
right margin at the time the second printable character arrives, but
testing indicates that's not actually how it works; the behaviour I'm
seeing appears to be more like your description of the VT102 than
anything else.

I clearly need to look at that code more closely.

  If you want any cases tested on a real 100, 101,
or 102, let me know!
 It'll be easy until I get sick of having them in a row on my living
 room floor. 
Heh.  I know the syndrome. :/

/~\ The ASCII                             Mouse
\ / Ribbon Campaign
 X  Against HTML                mouse at rodents-montreal.org
/ \ Email!           7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39  4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B

------------------------------

Message: 24
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2013 00:56:04 -0700
From: Brent Hilpert <hilpert at cs.ubc.ca>
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
        <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Subject: Re: Education & vintage/classic computing
Message-ID: <52D54486-2AA5-4F97-B06D-24F6FA9618D5 at cs.ubc.ca>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed

On 2013 Mar 13, at 9:32 AM, Murray McCullough wrote:

  I have a question that concerns vintage/classic
computing intersecting
 the education world: Can anyone tell me what was the first
 microcomputer used in an education setting for teaching purposes? 

The HP 9830 just being discussed might be one for your consideration,  
depending on how you want to classify a microcomputer. It's a  
desktop, 'personal' computer with built-in BASIC but the CPU is  
implemented in TTL, not a single-chip microprocessor. Introduced  
1972, encountered by personal experience in computer/programming  
course high school 1976.

------------------------------

Message: 25
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2013 08:00:45 +0000
From: Dave Caroline <dave.thearchivist at gmail.com>
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
        <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Subject: Re: Education & vintage/classic computing
Message-ID:
        <CALfYgtmjLrZ_3_0qKO1cxHAcxjnaVuKPQqQWhctrLsU7dpYG6A at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 4:32 PM, Murray McCullough
<c.murray.mccullough at gmail.com> wrote:
  I have a question that concerns vintage/classic
computing intersecting
 the education world: Can anyone tell me what was the first
 microcomputer used in an education setting for teaching purposes? 
Define micro...
In the early days the (mid 1960's) colleges and schools were building
their own computers as
was discussed on this list a few months ago.

for mini sized
1940's 1950'
http://www.dcs.bbk.ac.uk/about/history/

Dave Caroline

------------------------------

Message: 26
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 16:31:14 -0700
From: Chuck Guzis <cclist at sydex.com>
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
        <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Subject: Re: Care and Feeding of Vacuum Tubes (Valves)
Message-ID: <51410C42.3000103 at sydex.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

On 03/13/2013 04:08 PM, Zane H. Healy wrote:
  Do any special precautions need to be taken with
storing vacuum tubes?
 Are these something that can simply be tossed in the attic and forgotten
 about until needed?  I recently got a fair number, and expect to get
 more at some point in the future.

 A lot of the ones I got are simply dumped in an old metal tool box. 
Nothing that I'm aware of eats vacuum tubes--and I've got some pre-WWII 
stuff that's still ticking right along.  I'd be careful with excess 
moisture if I had a bunch of old lighthouse tubes or any other oddball 
metal-to-glas stuff.

But, aside from mechanical shock, tubes are about as inert as one can get.

--Chuck

------------------------------

Message: 27
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 19:38:35 -0400
From: David Riley <fraveydank at gmail.com>
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
        <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Subject: Re: Care and Feeding of Vacuum Tubes (Valves)
Message-ID: <FAC4BA8A-5EE6-45B5-A5C3-80DAB09B143C at gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;       charset=us-ascii

On Mar 13, 2013, at 19:08, "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh at aracnet.com>
wrote:

  Do any special precautions need to be taken with
storing vacuum tubes?  Are these something that can simply be tossed in the attic and
forgotten about until needed?  I recently got a fair number, and expect to get more at
some point in the future.

 A lot of the ones I got are simply dumped in an old metal tool box. 
Other than "be careful with them", not much. I like to wrap
mine in paper, preferably wax paper; it keeps its shape
well, which keeps the little nubbins on top of the miniature
noval tubes from fracturing. Take the same care when
transporting as you would with expensive light bulbs.
If any still have the cartons, I like to keep them in there
(wrapped in paper to immobilize).

- Dave

------------------------------

Message: 28
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 19:42:26 -0400
From: David Riley <fraveydank at gmail.com>
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
        <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Subject: Re: More fun stuff-bring out the vacuum tubes!
Message-ID: <B79BE93A-45AF-446F-9554-8E1BA8860321 at gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

On Mar 13, 2013, at 6:03 PM, Ethan Dicks <ethan.dicks at gmail.com> wrote:

  On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 4:50 PM, Cindy Croxton
Electronics Plus
 <sales at elecplus.com> wrote:
  http://diyaudioprojects.com/Tubes/tubes.htm

 Nice.  I have a few old 12V tubes (NOS from a science lab that was
 decomissioned a few years back that had some parts going back to the
 mid-1950s - ancient carbon composite resistors and all).  I'm looking
 at that 12V battery-powered headphone amp project as an easy
 get-started project.  I think I have everything on hand except the
 tube socket. 
If you need octal or noval ones, I have a few nice ceramic ones
that I'd be glad to send one or two of.  Otherwise, they're still
relatively easy to find; I like triodeelectronics.com because
they've done nicely by me in the past, but there are literally
dozens of tube vendor sites out there.

- Dave

End of cctech Digest, Vol 115, Issue 17
*************************************** 