John Boffemmyer IV wrote: Doesn't look like there are enough wires being used from the external connector to match the number of lights, so it isn't a simple breakout box. Looks more like some kind of VU display.

On Tue, 12 Jul 2005, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: NO WAY that that i8s an Apple-1. 'course it MIGHT be Woz's unsuccessful prototype foe a "Blue Box"

Maybe thats how Dr. Emmet Brown spellz it ;-) "Doc, lemme get this straight. You built a time machine.... out of a Delorean?!?!?" Marty McFly. Curt plato computer wrote: -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.8.13/47 - Release Date: 7/12/2005

Ah, quit being silly already! Obviously it is a Macintosh prototype. -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Tom Jennings Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2005 6:14 PM Cc: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Re: Mystery box Looks like an original Apple I to me. Steve W. most certainly made this.

Hehehe, I figured as much. Anyway, it'll probably end up in the dumpster. At 00:17 13-7-2005, you wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- http://www.oldcomputercollection.com

I don't think you can deduce anything from the choice of connector. I've used a DC37 (note, AFAIK the DB37 does not exist, although the DB44 does) conenctor for all sorts of things, not related to RS449 or ADCs. IBM used it for the external floppy drive connector on the PC, for example. AFter all, not all DB25s are RS232 ports :-) -tony

The former is, and the latter almost certainly is, a DC37 mislabeled as a DB37. There is a tendency - which I must admit I participated in for some time, until I learned better - to call any D-shell connector a DB. This is wrong. The DB size is the one usually used for 25-pin. The sizes and their canonical pin counts are DA 15-pin, such as used for AUI Ethernet or peecee joystick/MIDI DB 25-pin, such as used for RS-232C serial ports and peecee parallel ports DC 37-pin, such as in http://www.pccable.com/images/00830.jpg or the box which started this thread DD 50-pin, such as used by old Sun-3s for SCSI DE 9-pin, such as used by peecee serial ports, and sometimes video This is why you may find the 15-pin VGA connector called a DE15, because it is (it's a DE shell with 15 pins) - and the "DB37" that pccables.com is selling is actually a mislabeled DC37. (I feel sure the one from mycableshop.com is too, but I didn't see any obvious pictures there.) Like Tony, I've never seen a real DB37 and am inclined to doubt such a beast exists. Other sizes do exist, but they are rather nonstandard; for example, (some?) NeXT grayscale machines' monitor connector was a D-shell connector with, if I recall, 19 pins - somewhere between DA and DB size. (You could make a mechanically compatible connector by removing pins from a DB25M or by cutting away part of one end of a DB25F, though I don't know of anyone who's actually done either.) I suppose you could call it a DA.KKKKKKK... connector, but that would be excessively geeky :) and doesn't account for the way DE is actually *smaller* than DD. (I assume DE was an afterthought.) !! Interesting. Where'd you see that, Tony? It was back when I got a copy of RS-232C by interlibrary loan, some ten or fifteen years ago. Unless you're drawing a distinction between RS-232 and RS-232C which is lost on me. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse at rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B

On 7/21/05, Tony Duell <ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk> wrote: I have a Planar-brand bolt-to-the-wall-for-the-medical-industry 486 w/integral LCD that has a DB44 for an external IDE CDROM connection. Without docs, I traced out the DB25 for the external MFM floppy so I could boot an install floppy, but lacking a handy DB44M soldertail connector or pre-made cable to cannibalize, I never bothered tracing out the CD-ROM connector. I have seen similar density D-connectors (wider versions of a DE15HD VGA connector) on the back of older Cisco gear, but I can't remember what the shell was... perhaps they were DA26s. -ethan

On Thu, 2005-07-21 at 20:54 +0100, Tony Duell wrote: Urgh, I remember those Amiga ones... bloody impossible to get hold of. It was the video port on the A500 IIRC - if running on a TV the modulator plugged into this and was constantly falling out, so a short bit of cable between the two was a good idea. Cutting DB25's down to size used to work, but was a bit bodgelike :) The DB44 *might* be what our CAMAC box uses on at least one of its cards... I'll have to have a look (don't have any photos handy). I'm not convinced it's any kind of standard pitch or shell size on that machine though; it might be something totally oddball. NCD xterms use the DA26 for their video IIRC - again they used to be hard to come by. My machine (it's at Bletchley hence I can't check) ended up with a short trailing lead from the system board to a standard VGA connector as it was easier than getting hold of the darn connector to make up a lead with. I've seen DA26's on something else too more recently, but can't for the life of me remember what - I have a feeling that was for something video-related too. cheers Jules

On Thu, 2005-07-21 at 21:29 -0400, der Mouse wrote: You're lucky :-) Mine's an 88k 17c, so maybe it was just the 88k machines that got the funky connector (I *think* the 19r's something a bit more conventional CPU-wise)

On Friday 22 July 2005 08:49, der Mouse wrote: I don't think an i960 is a MIPS CPU but I might be wrong. :) I've got a couple 19r's and thought about running something other than the 'standard' OS on them before... Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org

Right. But that's not what's in the 19r. Or, at least, it's not what's in the NCD I have, which is marked as a 19r. It also runs software which is supposedly for the 19r, and which makes sense when looked at with a MIPS disassembler. I also pulled the CPU board from my 19r and scanned it. The scan is not the best - it's a little out of focus and somewhat dim, because the board didn't sit very close to the scanner glass - but the writing on all the chips with enough pin count to be CPUs is legible (though on my monitor I have to stretch the contrast). It's up for ftp from ftp.rodents.montreal.qc.ca:/mouse/misc/NCD-CPU/board.pgm and board.gif for your viewing edification. It's 2549x1771; the chips of particular interest can be found at 700x400 at 1100,200, 400x400 at 800,900, and 400x400 at 1400,875; those pieces, contrast-stretched, can be found in .../NCD-CPU/X.YYY where X is A, B, or C and YYY is pgm or gif. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse at rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B

der Mouse wrote: You're probably thinking about the RocketX aka LSI 33320 MIPS cpu's ?

Do I have to go through this _every_ time... No matter what certain PC-goons think, the letter after the D indicates the shell size, and is not always B. The standard-density connectors and _some_ of their uses are : DE9 (Used for PC/AT serial ports, CGA video) DA15 (PC joystick, AUI ethernet, BBC micro analogue port) DB25 (PC parallel port, RS232, ACW user port, ACW keyboard, RML380Z user port) DC37 (PC external floppies, ACW 1MHz bus) DD50 (Sun SCSI, PERQ 3a SCSI) There are also high-density versions, DE15, DA26, DB44 and DC62. And I've seen others. I dod not dispute that the DC37 connector is used for RS449. I do dispute that it's the only use, or even the most common use (AFAIK I have no RS449 stuff. I do have quite a few DC37 connectors in use). You mean a DE9 :-). Anyway, I wasn't thinking of the PC parallel port. I've got partially _valved_ equipment here that contains D connectors. And said equipment most certainly doesn;t have RS232 ports. Actually, I thought it was. Or maybe that's the V24 standard. Agreed -tony